Butyagrus variations

[Gtlevine]

I love rare palms, but I love green palms even more hence, I have a collection of about a dozen Butyagrus. Here is a small cross section of some of my favorites.

This one is an F2 from the Huntington Butyagrus

This is another F2 from the Huntington Butyagrus, I have posted this picture before. This palm is about 15 to twenty feet and super fat.

This one is from Tim Hopper in Florida

This final one was sent as a gift to me from Merril Wilcox. What I like about this one is it has black petioles.

Hope you enjoy these, plant lots of them because they stay green through hot, cold, and they even went through my fire storm and barely got touched.

Gary

Edited June 10, 2008 by Gtlevine

[Urban Rainforest]

Gary, Having seen yours is the reason I picked one up at the Quail sale. How big do they have to be to move into all day sun?

Thanks,

Steve

[galveston1602]

I need to just do it and get one for myself, Beautiful pics, its awesome the variability of these palms

If you could make all of them like pic #2, I bet you couldnt keep them in stock!

any idea as to its age?

Im always amazed at you cali guys with palms growing in rocks! I mean, youd be hard pressed to find any rocks 1/2 that size anywhere within 500 miles of here

It looks alot like what id expect mars to look like!

[osideterry]

They color of the petioles and leaf bases isn't like a queen or a pindo. Love the leaves on the one from Tim Hopper.

Is the growth rate intermediate between the parents?

[Gtlevine]

Steve, place in full sun from a one leaf seedling.

Allen, the one in pic two is just a freak of nature. The seed was germinated in 1998. It is going to be an enormous palm, the base is already 18 inches across and no trunk yet.

Gary

[DoomsDave]

Gary!

THanks for sharing . . .

You've solved a mystery . . .

There's a palm in Fullerton that looks like your black-petiole specimen.

Hmm.

How to lay hands on an F2 seedling from the one from the Big H?

dave

[TimHopper]

Some great photos gary. Those Huntington F-2 trees are unique. I have had no luck with producing F-2s yet but still working with new trees. Here are a few xButyagrus in my garden. Tim Hopper

[TimHopper]

And a few more. Tim

[TimHopper]

A couple in containers

[PalmGuyWC]

Great photos of your hybrids, guys. Keep them coming. Allen mentions a Mars scape in Calif. After the past two N. Calif. winters, sometimes I felt like I lived on Mars. After yesterday, I felt like I lived on Mecury as it was 100+F (38+C), and more of the same expected today.

Dick

[TikiRick]

Some great photos gary. Those Huntington F-2 trees are unique. I have had no luck with producing F-2s yet but still working with new trees. Here are a few xButyagrus in my garden. Tim Hopper

Tim,

I noticed that in some of your postings that you allow the grass to grow right up to the base of the palm. Although your palms look super healthy, I was wondering, if you pulled the grass away, mulched the drip line of the palm(s), do you think that the trunks would be heavier/thicker? How often do you feed and irrigate these palms? They are beautiful!

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Gary and Tim, thanks for the pics...those are nice looking palms....

....a question......Queens a notorious for liking a lot of water and in our SW FLA soil, a fair amount of fert, and if not they look crappy (yeh, yeh, i can hear some of you that they look crappy ANYWAY, but that is another thread! )

anyway, do these hybrids exhibit the same needs?

Thanks

Rusty

[southlatropical]

Thanks for sharing the pictures. I have a 3yr old seedling from Patrick Schafer and one of those overgrown 5gal on the way from Micheal. It's exciting to see what they may look like in the future.

[simona]

Thanks for sharing.

So, this Mule Palm being a hybrid [male Syagrus romanzoffiana and female Butia capitata (the opposite mixture does not work for some unknown reason)], I have some questions:

1. It seems that seeds have been produced but none grew into actual palms ....is this true?

2. As cold tolerance is also in between the parents; there is some variability... How cold hardy is it? [Well, by Central Florida Palm & Cycad Society it's listed for Zone 9 - Can it really take 20F?)

[Gtlevine]

Thanks for sharing.

So, this Mule Palm being a hybrid [male Syagrus romanzoffiana and female Butia capitata (the opposite mixture does not work for some unknown reason)], I have some questions:

1. It seems that seeds have been produced but none grew into actual palms ....is this true?

2. As cold tolerance is also in between the parents; there is some variability... How cold hardy is it? [Well, by Central Florida Palm & Cycad Society it's listed for Zone 9 - Can it really take 20F?)

Statement one is not correct. The palms shown in my photos #1 and #2 are seed collected and germinated off the Butyagrus growing in the Huntington Botanical Garden. The question is whether they are self pollinated. It is most likely that another palm in the garden pollinated the Butyagrus which produced the two palms shown, but there is some evidence that a small % of certain Butyagrus can be self pollinated. I am not the expert, so maybe some of the experts can chime in.

As far as cold hardiness, I believe they can take temperatures down in the mid teens.

Gary

[simona]

Thank you, those are some good news I really appreciate!

[edbrown_III]

The mules are very cold hardy. Raulersons mules survived 12F in 1962 in Jacksonville.

Walter Rogers large mule survived at least 10F i& 11F in Jacksonville in 1985 &83 respectively.

My trees have survived 16F in 1989 . The ones at FCCJ survived the same

Merrills trees have probably seen 14F or less during hte 80's ( he can clarify tho)

Kyle Browns trees ( further west ) were killed by 1985 freeze I am supposing it was 5F.

Certainly not uniform but sufficient data to rate them to 15F or less.

Best regards,

Ed

[merrill]

Hi, Ed:

My widely varied XButyagrus were subjected to 10F years ago. Eight out of nine survived after surgery.

The Butia parent of the [relatively] numerous F2 hybrids from HBG is VERY difficult to work with; the male parent is gone; a very kind soul has offered to help! The mother is extremely difficult to work with because the fronds are tightly packed at the level of the bud.

What strikes me as inexplicable is that all the progeny of the HBG XButyagrus seem to be self polllinated with very little doubt; my two backcrosses are VERY different from the HBG progeny I've seen. It is quite unexpected that the offspring of this XButyagrus result from self pollination, as XB pollen is normally mostly dead! The HBG XButyagrus is indeed unique!

Best Wishes, merrill

[palmazon]

GT: it gladdens my heart to read your recent posts - you never fail to bring something worthwhile to the forum.

[palmsrgreat]

Gary,

Great pictures and this of course is my favorite subject. I'll post some pictures soon of various plants I have.

I receive a large majority of palms from Frank and Elaine Lewis and their consistency has been quite regular. However, I have been collecting from other regions with notable variablilty as well. I must say the F2 hybrids from Huntington are quite a rare feature and their trunks are very nice to look at.

How old would you estimate the palm in the second picture to be?

Some other items which I have recently acquired will surely create something only time will tell how great they look:

Butia yatay x Queen

Butia paraguyensis X Queen

Butia (blue/droopy fronds) capitata x Queen

Glad to see how great your trees are doing, take care and keep the pictures coming.

Tim: It's also nice to see an update to your palm next to the driveway. I always enjoyed seeing the progression of that tree year over year. And I also admire the way you are able to trim it so neatly. I hope to perfect this skill with mine one day!

[galveston1602]

heres a local beauty that has probably been in this spot for at least 10 years and honestly it doesnt grow very much (taller)

[Gtlevine]

Gary,

Great pictures and this of course is my favorite subject. I'll post some pictures soon of various plants I have.

I receive a large majority of palms from Frank and Elaine Lewis and their consistency has been quite regular. However, I have been collecting from other regions with notable variablilty as well. I must say the F2 hybrids from Huntington are quite a rare feature and their trunks are very nice to look at.

How old would you estimate the palm in the second picture to be?

Some other items which I have recently acquired will surely create something only time will tell how great they look:

Butia yatay x Queen

Butia paraguyensis X Queen

Butia (blue/droopy fronds) capitata x Queen

Glad to see how great your trees are doing, take care and keep the pictures coming.

Tim: It's also nice to see an update to your palm next to the driveway. I always enjoyed seeing the progression of that tree year over year. And I also admire the way you are able to trim it so neatly. I hope to perfect this skill with mine one day!

I mentioned this already, but the F2 Hybrids pictured in post one and two both were harvested from the Huntington xButyagrus in 1998.

Your hybrids look like they will be interesting, please post some photos as they come along. I also have two (Jubaea x Butia) x Syagrus that I just planted in the ground last year. Hopefully these will prove interesting as well.

Gary

[merrill]

I still have the Butia mother [and Grandmother?] of these numerous hybrids here in Florida. It is very difficult to work with because the fronds are packed very tightly at the level of the crown. It seems responsible for more F2 hybrids than any other XButyagrus in my experience; there are to my knowledge only about five of these fertile XButyagrus; none seem to come to the prolific level of this Huntington specimen. A very kind soul has offered to pollinate it; perhaps another prolific hybrid willl appear!

Best Wishes,

merrill

[Gtlevine]

Hi Merril, the Huntington plant is a unique specimen in many ways. Of all the xButyagrus I have ever seen, it is still the most spectacular and stunning palm bar none and I only hope I can get one that looks like that one someday.

I am extremely happy with the one I posted that you gave me, it looks nothing like and of my other ones and I am very interested to see what it will look like when it eventually gets trunk. Thank you very much for that gift.

Gary

[_Keith]

Thanks for sharing the pictures. I have a 3yr old seedling from Patrick Schafer and one of those overgrown 5gal on the way from Micheal. It's exciting to see what they may look like in the future.

So Isaac, when are we going to hook up? Do you ever get down towards New Iberia?

[Tampa Scott]

This pic was taken a few years ago (before I got in to Butyagrus) I gave this one away. What do you think? Hybrid or not? It did not have thorns.

[Tampa Scott]

Here is a photo of some of my past Butyagrus I have grown.

[southlatropical]

Thanks for sharing the pictures. I have a 3yr old seedling from Patrick Schafer and one of those overgrown 5gal on the way from Micheal. It's exciting to see what they may look like in the future.

So Isaac, when are we going to hook up? Do you ever get down towards New Iberia?

I have always wanted to visit Avery Island. I remember when I was in grade school we were going on a field trip there but I got sick and could'nt go. There is a guy in Lake Charles I am also supposed to go visit. He is growing heliconia outdoors and several rare bananas, gingers, ect. I need to make a road trip sometime soon. It would be great to stop by and check out your yard.

[Tampa Scott]

Here is a pic of a very nice wide leaflet Butyagrus. I would love to know what it may have looked like today. At the time I was out of town and the sprinkler do not water this palm. It did not make it.

[gsn]

Here is a photo of some of my past Butyagrus I have grown.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?ac...st&id=30830

Scott,

Great looking Butyagrus. Are the two on the left 3 gallon plants?

Edited June 12, 2008 by gsn

[Tampa Scott]

Scott, Yes they are 2 gal. plants on the left. Scott

[Kris]

Dear Friends

thanks for those lovely visuals and spl thanks to those who have given those stills in Hi Res mode !

thanks & love,

Kris

[PalmGuyWC]

I have 3 Butiagrus that are all over 30 years old and about 35 to 40 feet in height. They were natural hybrids that came from central Florida. Unfortunately they are all crowded by other palms now and are difficult to photoghraph, but I'll try to get some pictures later on. All 3 have different characteristics, but one looks like the "typical" ones I've seen growing in the Tampa, Orlando area of Florida. Another appears to have more Butia like fronds and when it was younger the blades tended to not seperate. The thrid one is a monster palm with 18' fronds. I just measured the trunks and the monster is 26" in diamater at sholder height and 40" at the base. It's growing near a Jubaea and seems to be winning in height. Just for the heck of it, I measured one of the Jubaeas and at sholder height, it's 48" or 4 feet in diameter and much wider at the base.

Patrick Schafer arrived here early this morning, and for the first time he has some Parajubaea sunkha pollen. He's already crossed it with a Butia, and plans to try it on one of the Jubaea inflourescenses and a Queen........if the pollen holds out. Out of many differents attempts he has only gotten 2 plants from Jubaea X P. cocoides. We are hoping for better luck with P. sunkha pollen. Last year he crossed Syagrus X P. cocoides and got a good seed set and got pretty good germination. He's waiting for the seedlings to grow up to show their adult characteristics. At this point they look like Syagrus seedlings but he believes they look a little different at this early stage. More to come later as the blooming season has just begun in N. Calif. We had a late spring and most of the flowering is about one month late, but it's hot here this week, so things are popping.

Dick

[Mark Heath]

Hello Dick,

I am soooooo green w/ envy!!!! I wish i could grow a Mature Parajubaea so i could cross it w/ Syagrus!!!

Please tell Patric that i would love to buy some of his seedlings (PXS.R). He deffinatly knows what he is doing!!

[Tampa Scott]

Here is another pic of the wide leaflet Butyagrus

[PalmGuyWC]

Scott,

What a shame your wide leafed Butiagrus didn't make it. It was a beautiful palm and looks very much like a Coconut. I could kick myself too, for some of my past neglected palms or ones that I missed watering. I'm sure we all have palm grave yards.

Dick

[gsn]

Scott, Yes they are 2 gal. plants on the left. Scott

Those are really nice size palms for the container size, completely pinnate!

Edited June 13, 2008 by gsn

[gsn]

I still have the Butia mother [and Grandmother?] of these numerous hybrids here in Florida. It is very difficult to work with because the fronds are packed very tightly at the level of the crown. It seems responsible for more F2 hybrids than any other XButyagrus in my experience; there are to my knowledge only about five of these fertile XButyagrus; none seem to come to the prolific level of this Huntington specimen. A very kind soul has offered to pollinate it; perhaps another prolific hybrid willl appear!

Best Wishes,

merrill

Merill,

Just curious any theories on why only 5 XButyagrus that you know of are fertile?

Obviously most of these are sterile hence the common name MULE palm.

But sceintifically can you describe why a handful would be self pollinating,or is it just an anomaly of nature?

thanks,

Edited June 13, 2008 by gsn

[merrill]

Hi, Scott:

It would be interesting to again use one of the stains that differentiate sterile and fertile pollen; will have to leave that to someone younger that still has access to labs. As in the case of the mule in the animal kingdom, the genetic elements must line up properly. In both cases, some rare genetic lines may be effective in more than one roll of the dice.

Best Wishes, merrill

[galveston1602]

So..... my question is simple, where might one see a pic of this "huntington mule"?