Jubutyagrus hybrids update

[TonyDFW]

I got this JubeaX ButiaX Syagrus hybrid from Patrick a couple of years ago. Here are my results in a mostly shaded USDA zone 8b. Dallas
My Jubutyagrus has gone through two growing season and is now in its second winter. Here are some images.

2011 Jan

Jan 2011


This is a picture 2 years ago in Dec, 2009 after 24F.
Does anyone have experience with this hybrid?
What has your experience been with them?
Thanks.

[_Keith]

Not setting the world on fire growth wise, but you had a tough winter last year. I'd say that guy is gonna be a winner.

[sonoranfans]

I have a few strap leaf seedling of this palm I received from from Tim Hopper this past september. It looks slower than I thought, but perhaps that is the shade. I am planning on putting mine in full sun, perhaps that will make them faster. Its an interesting looking palm, very little of the capitata V leaflet profile or recurve of the frond, but it divided the leaflets early compared with syagrus and appears to have more rigid leaflets than syagrus. It also does not appear to be as plumose and is darker green than my mule palm, interesting. I fully expect it to be a sub 20 degree cold tolerance palm, which means immune to cold here. It will be nice to see how this one works in your garden tony, please keep us updated and thanks for the post.

[TimHopper]

I HAVE BEEN DISTRIBUTING THESE FOR ABOUT A YEAR NOW. MAYBE SOME PHOTOS WILL START COMING IN SOON. I THINK THEY GROW PRETTY FAST. THIS IS MY LARGEST AT 19 MONTHS FROM GERMINATION. TIM

[buffy]

I have a Schafer Jubutygrus and Hopper Jubutygrus growing close to each other. The Schafer hybrid is 3+ years old. The Hopper hybrid is 1+ years old. The Hopper hybrid is definitely faster. The growing conditions certainly haven't been apple-to-apples, but the Hopper hybrid is pushing out pinnate leaves. It took the Schafer hybrid almost 2 full years before it even threatened to send pinnate fronds up. I think a lot of it has to do with how quickly you get them in the ground. I no longer wait for them to go pinnate before putting them in the dirt. I can always protect. Palms simply do better in the dirt. I have a Schafer Butia X Parajubaea going in the dirt on April 1st. I also have a couple of more Hopper hybrids I'm gonna squeeze somewhere.

[Palm crazy]

This is one beauty palm with lots of elegance and grace. Imagine the trunk will look something like a parajubaea. Filter sunlight with direct sun half a day.

Planted two years ago as a seedling from Patrick. Second photo: Taken last summer, sorry no updated photos.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Palm crazy

[sonoranfans]

I have a Schafer Jubutygrus and Hopper Jubutygrus growing close to each other. The Schafer hybrid is 3+ years old. The Hopper hybrid is 1+ years old. The Hopper hybrid is definitely faster. The growing conditions certainly haven't been apple-to-apples, but the Hopper hybrid is pushing out pinnate leaves. It took the Schafer hybrid almost 2 full years before it even threatened to send pinnate fronds up. I think a lot of it has to do with how quickly you get them in the ground. I no longer wait for them to go pinnate before putting them in the dirt. I can always protect. Palms simply do better in the dirt. I have a Schafer Butia X Parajubaea going in the dirt on April 1st. I also have a couple of more Hopper hybrids I'm gonna squeeze somewhere.

I dont know about the pinnate separation and in the ground cameron. One of mine is already showing some leaflet separation and its a pretty small seedling just upgraded from a 3 gallon to a 5 gallon pot. It has seen full florida sun after 3 weeks acclimation with morning sun. It looks to be half the size of some of the strap leafers in this thread. I was thinking what genes are doing this? I know butia open early, and syagrus late, but what about jubaea?? When I look at my jubutiagrus and compare to my x-butiagrus, the color of the jubutiagrus is a deeper medium green, not a syagrus green(dark green) but very nice.

[sonoranfans]

I have a Schafer Jubutygrus and Hopper Jubutygrus growing close to each other. The Schafer hybrid is 3+ years old. The Hopper hybrid is 1+ years old. The Hopper hybrid is definitely faster. The growing conditions certainly haven't been apple-to-apples, but the Hopper hybrid is pushing out pinnate leaves. It took the Schafer hybrid almost 2 full years before it even threatened to send pinnate fronds up. I think a lot of it has to do with how quickly you get them in the ground. I no longer wait for them to go pinnate before putting them in the dirt. I can always protect. Palms simply do better in the dirt. I have a Schafer Butia X Parajubaea going in the dirt on April 1st. I also have a couple of more Hopper hybrids I'm gonna squeeze somewhere.

I dont know about the pinnate separation and in the ground cameron. One of mine is already showing some leaflet separation and its a pretty small seedling just upgraded from a 3 gallon to a 5 gallon pot. It has seen full florida sun after 3 weeks acclimation with morning sun. It looks to be half the size of some of the strap leafers in this thread. I was thinking what genes are doing this? I know butia open early, and syagrus late, but what about jubaea?? When I look at my jubutiagrus and compare to my x-butiagrus, the color of the jubutiagrus is a deeper medium green, not a syagrus green(dark green) but very nice.

[Alberto]

I have a Schafer Jubutygrus and Hopper Jubutygrus growing close to each other. The Schafer hybrid is 3+ years old. The Hopper hybrid is 1+ years old. The Hopper hybrid is definitely faster.

Patric´s Jubutiagrus have 1/4 jubaea blood and Tim Hoppers 1/8 (or am I wrong?) so this can be the reason they are somewhat slower.

[sonoranfans]

Yes Alberto it appears that Tims mother plant was a Bu x Ju x Bu. I am happy to have the faster hybrid if that is the case. I am hoping to use it as canopy before I get too old. I do really like the looks of patricks hybrid, but it looks too slow for use as canopy in the next decade. Tims hybrid sounds more like a mule with a jubaea punch(1/8 jubaea, 3/8 butia, 1/2 syagrus). It will be very interesting to see the differences between then and the variation within each hybrid.

[mjff]

I thought Tim's are JxBxS and Patric's are BxJxS?

I had one from Patric that went pinnate in summer of 2009, then was defoliated last winter, started growing a new spear in the spring, but rotted from all the cold rain we had in the spring.

I have 6 from Tim that are going pinnate in 4 gallon citrus pots that I stick in the garage on cold nights.

[sonoranfans]

I thought Tim's are JxBxS and Patric's are BxJxS?

I had one from Patric that went pinnate in summer of 2009, then was defoliated last winter, started growing a new spear in the spring, but rotted from all the cold rain we had in the spring.

I have 6 from Tim that are going pinnate in 4 gallon citrus pots that I stick in the garage on cold nights.

I stand corrected, in the Ebay add the x jubutiagrus Tim described as((JxB) xS). So it was not back crossed w/butia. He had discussed his back crossed palm in the thread and I made an assumptive error. I am curious to see if the differences between tims and Patricks hybrids can be explained...

Edited January 3, 2011 by sonoranfans

[edbrown_III]

variation in 3 areas :

genetic, garden spot and gardener---

Best regarsd

Ed

[Nigel]

I thought Tim's are JxBxS and Patric's are BxJxS?

I had one from Patric that went pinnate in summer of 2009, then was defoliated last winter, started growing a new spear in the spring, but rotted from all the cold rain we had in the spring.

I have 6 from Tim that are going pinnate in 4 gallon citrus pots that I stick in the garage on cold nights.

I stand corrected, in the Ebay add the x jubutiagrus Tim described as((JxB) xS). So it was not back crossed w/butia. He had discussed his back crossed palm in the thread and I made an assumptive error. I am curious to see if the differences between tims and Patricks hybrids can be explained...

patrics are probably ( BxJ )xS which can explain the difference.

[buffy]

It's just been my limited experience that dirt equals faster growth in palms.

Other observations: Tim's Jubutygruses (holy word...we need a better name for these suckers.......how about Trinity Palms). Yes, I like the idea of calling them Trinity Palms because they're trigeneric and kinda of a holy grail hybrid for us deep freeze boys. Feel free to ignore me. Well anyway, as a I was saying another observation is that Tim's Jubuty....I mean Trinity Palm, is darker green than Patric's.

[Daniel]

Has anyone observed at what temperature one of Tim's Jubutyagrus sustains cold damage of any description?

I have had one of Patric's Bujubagrus (I think that is right) planted out for a couple of Winters here in the UK. Last Winter it had foliage damage and spear pulled in the Spring, Winter minimum hit 20F, but this was it's first Winter. This Winter it has had a bit of protection and looks good so far. Temperatures hit 16F in December here.

[sonoranfans]

It's just been my limited experience that dirt equals faster growth in palms.

Other observations: Tim's Jubutygruses (holy word...we need a better name for these suckers.......how about Trinity Palms). Yes, I like the idea of calling them Trinity Palms because they're trigeneric and kinda of a holy grail hybrid for us deep freeze boys. Feel free to ignore me. Well anyway, as a I was saying another observation is that Tim's Jubuty....I mean Trinity Palm, is darker green than Patric's.

I have noted above that Tims x jubutiagrus were notably darker(many shades) than my x butiagrus, but lighter than a queen. The color of the strap leaves is stunning, a soft satin color, less waxy than the darker queen leaf. I looked up some pics of jubaea seedlings and the color was remarkably similar, at least in the pics. I am not a botanist and not a grower who hybridizes palms, but I understand that the hybrid plant takes on the features of the mother more than the father. In the first stage this would mean a J x B is more "jubaea like" than a B x J which would be more "butia like". It would then be puzzling that a (J x B)x S would grow faster than a (B x J)x S as jubaeas are about as slow as any palm.

Daniel: I dont know how large your palms are but dont evaluate cold hardiness on small palms, its not a reliable way to estimate the cold hardiness of the mature palm as small ones are so close to the ground and have small trunks that offer less insulation to the bud area. If I lived in a very cold area, I would probably keep my palms in containers longer so I could keep the roots warm(grow faster) for more months of the year, and they are easier to protect from cold.

Edited January 3, 2011 by sonoranfans

[Rafael]

I have five jubutyagrus seedlings from Tim Hooper, since last August, still potted, still acclimatizing, in partial shade and, these coolder days, indoors.

I have another one, bought from Germany (hello Joerg!), formerly came from Patrick. This one is bigger, but is still potted. As it was so expensive to me, i am protecting it as i do with the seedlings.

Later i will show pics.

[Matt N- Dallas]

I have a Jubutyagrus from Patric Schafer and it is my favorite- a very fast grower. I grew it to a 5 gal size for the first year, and planted it in July of 2009. It suffered double spear pull from last winter's low of 15*, but is was small. After the spear pulled, I kept the top dry, applied fungicide and it grew out fast. This growing season it nearly tripled in size. I've attached pics (from today)that show the first two spears that grew out after double spear pull. It is growing faster than my Tim Hopper butyagrus that was planted in 2004- I attached a pic of it. The butyagrus was a 1 gal strap leaf when planted. I am growing a Tim Hopper jubutyagrus to see how it does- it is attractive.

[Palm crazy]

The one I got from Patrick said (J x B)x S on the tag, but I like to try one from Tim.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Palm crazy

[PalmGuyWC]

I have a Schafer Butia X Jubaea X Syagrus that was planted in the ground about 2.5 years ago. It was a 5 gal. size with pinnate fronds. It grew very slowly the first year, but now with a swollen trunk base about the size of a grapefruit it has speeded growth considerably. I have found that all the Cocoid hybrids speed in growth once the base of the trunk swells, and the more sun you can give them, the better.

Dick

[sonoranfans]

I have a Jubutyagrus from Patric Schafer and it is my favorite- a very fast grower. I grew it to a 5 gal size for the first year, and planted it in July of 2009. It suffered double spear pull from last winter's low of 15*, but is was small. After the spear pulled, I kept the top dry, applied fungicide and it grew out fast. This growing season it nearly tripled in size. I've attached pics (from today)that show the first two spears that grew out after double spear pull. It is growing faster than my Tim Hopper butyagrus that was planted in 2004- I attached a pic of it. The butyagrus was a 1 gal strap leaf when planted. I am growing a Tim Hopper jubutyagrus to see how it does- it is attractive.

Very nice matt! that one sure is a beauty! I am encouraged to hear about the growth speed pickup from you and Dick. I am counting on using my 3 jubutiagrus as canopy to protect more tender palms from frost. Its great to have growers out there hybridizing species so that we have all these choices for cold hardy palms.

[Rafael]

This one is from Patrick. It says "(Jubaea x Butia) x Queen".

This is one of five, from Tim Hooper.

[mjff]

This one is from Patrick. It says "(Jubaea x Butia) x Queen".

This is one of five, from Tim Hooper.

My understanding is Patric does his hybrids at Dick's, and the Jubutiagrus come from Dick's monster B x J. Not sure Dick even has a flowering J x B. Technically, I guess they should be called Bujubeagrus.

[Alberto]

I thought Tim's are JxBxS and Patric's are BxJxS?

I had one from Patric that went pinnate in summer of 2009, then was defoliated last winter, started growing a new spear in the spring, but rotted from all the cold rain we had in the spring.

I have 6 from Tim that are going pinnate in 4 gallon citrus pots that I stick in the garage on cold nights.

I stand corrected, in the Ebay add the x jubutiagrus Tim described as((JxB) xS). So it was not back crossed w/butia. He had discussed his back crossed palm in the thread and I made an assumptive error. I am curious to see if the differences between tims and Patricks hybrids can be explained...

Tim´s are {(Jubaea x Butia) x Butia} x Syagrus rom.

Take alook: ´´........ I do have a JuButia x Butia .....´´

http://www.palmtalk....h=1

[TimHopper]

I thought Tim's are JxBxS and Patric's are BxJxS?

I had one from Patric that went pinnate in summer of 2009, then was defoliated last winter, started growing a new spear in the spring, but rotted from all the cold rain we had in the spring.

I have 6 from Tim that are going pinnate in 4 gallon citrus pots that I stick in the garage on cold nights.

I stand corrected, in the Ebay add the x jubutiagrus Tim described as((JxB) xS). So it was not back crossed w/butia. He had discussed his back crossed palm in the thread and I made an assumptive error. I am curious to see if the differences between tims and Patricks hybrids can be explained...

Tim´s are {(Jubaea x Butia) x Butia} x Syagrus rom.

Take alook: ´´........ I do have a JuButia x Butia .....´´

http://www.palmtalk....h=1

Yes Alberto, My Mother Jubutia is an F2, but displays a lot of Jubaea characteristics.

[Alberto]

I thought Tim's are JxBxS and Patric's are BxJxS?

I had one from Patric that went pinnate in summer of 2009, then was defoliated last winter, started growing a new spear in the spring, but rotted from all the cold rain we had in the spring.

I have 6 from Tim that are going pinnate in 4 gallon citrus pots that I stick in the garage on cold nights.

I stand corrected, in the Ebay add the x jubutiagrus Tim described as((JxB) xS). So it was not back crossed w/butia. He had discussed his back crossed palm in the thread and I made an assumptive error. I am curious to see if the differences between tims and Patricks hybrids can be explained...

Tim´s are {(Jubaea x Butia) x Butia} x Syagrus rom.

Take alook: ´´........ I do have a JuButia x Butia .....´´

http://www.palmtalk....h=1

Yes Alberto, My Mother Jubutia is an F2, but displays a lot of Jubaea characteristics.

Yes Jubutias,even the F2 have strong Jubaea characteristics

Patric´s Bujubeagrus.have 25% Jubaea blood and TimHoppers Jubutiagrus have 12,5% Jubaea but the Jubaegrus generally shows a lot of Jubaea characteristics.

It will be interesting to see the differences between this 2 hybrids in futute!

[TimHopper]

These are photos taken today of my largest XJubutyagrus 19 months old from germination. This one has been outdoors in the open during our cold weather. It actually speeded growth when the weather got cooler in Fall. We have had 14 freezes already this Winter with multiple frosts. Our coldest night was 23f and freeze lasted 9 hours. That is not that cold for this hybrid, and not a true test of cold hardiness. It shows no damage at all from the freezes. If it were going to get below 20f, I would bring it in at this size. I am going to plant this one in the ground in March. Tim

[sonoranfans]

These are photos taken today of my largest XJubutyagrus 19 months old from germination. This one has been outdoors in the open during our cold weather. It actually speeded growth when the weather got cooler in Fall. We have had 14 freezes already this Winter with multiple frosts. Our coldest night was 23f and freeze lasted 9 hours. That is not that cold for this hybrid, and not a true test of cold hardiness. It shows no damage at all from the freezes. If it were going to get below 20f, I would bring it in at this size. I am going to plant this one in the ground in March. Tim

That second photo shows the arresting green color of these hybrids. Its a color that I have not seen in any of my other palms, a soft, satin, but very intense green. All of my three strap leaf seedlings look the same color. I can hardly wait to put them in the ground this spring!

Edited January 4, 2011 by sonoranfans

[tank]

Planted out one of Tim's 3 way crosses late last summer, early fall. Saw 22F with HEAVY frost so far this winter with no damage. Started pushing its spear last week during our little warm up hear in N. Florida. They definitely speed up once in the ground and in full sun.

[Rafael]

All my jubutyagrus came indoors to avoid 28F/29F for three/four back-to-back nights (also with lots of humidity and salt, due to coastal influence). But reading all the above inputs i think i might be wrong...

Edited January 4, 2011 by rafael

[_Keith]

Here is my little hybrid. Suffered a spear pull, and pretty much looked dead, after last year's 3 nights in a row right at the 20 degree mark. It also takes the full brunt of all frost in this location as well. In spite of the fact that I did nothing to help it recover, it did do so, and doubled in size this year.

Behind it is a Mule, and coming in from the left is a Butia. They are all on happy family.

[sonoranfans]

All my jubutyagrus came indoors to avoid 28F/29F for three/four back-to-back nights (also with lots of humidity and salt, due to coastal influence). But reading all the above inputs i think i might be wrong...

Rafael,

You are the only one talking of heavy salt exposure. Im not sure what that means exactly, but it could cause a change in dehydration state of the palm and perhaps some physiological changes in cold weather resistance.

[Rafael]

What??? Am i the only one growing palms half a mile from the coastal line???

[sonoranfans]

What??? Am i the only one growing palms half a mile from the coastal line???

I dont know, but you might be the only one growing jubutiagrus in salt air. It may be that it doesnt matter for this palm, as each palm has its own salt tolerance.

[Kumar]

These are photos taken today of my largest XJubutyagrus 19 months old from germination. This one has been outdoors in the open during our cold weather. It actually speeded growth when the weather got cooler in Fall. We have had 14 freezes already this Winter with multiple frosts. Our coldest night was 23f and freeze lasted 9 hours. That is not that cold for this hybrid, and not a true test of cold hardiness. It shows no damage at all from the freezes. If it were going to get below 20f, I would bring it in at this size. I am going to plant this one in the ground in March. Tim

Beautiful Tim - Somehow I never find the hybrids attractive but your photograph is so vivid and the specimen so healthy that I salute you. The plant is young but already has a thick trunk - so I suppose you'll have a jubea like monster in the years ahead.

[Rch65]

Rafael, you are not alone, I live 50 metres from the sea and have left one of Tim Hoppers out whilst -2c. So far it looks ok.

[Mark Heath]

This one is from Patrick. It says "(Jubaea x Butia) x Queen".

This is one of five, from Tim Hooper.

My understanding is Patric does his hybrids at Dick's, and the Jubutiagrus come from Dick's monster B x J. Not sure Dick even has a flowering J x B. Technically, I guess they should be called Bujubeagrus.

I agree Martin. Dick posted on another thread that the hybrids were mislabled, should have been BXJXB. BXJ is self sterill, so it would have to been polinated by Butia or Jubaea to develop seed. Those were the hybrids sold as JXB. No worries, but i just wanted to clear that up seeing that i hybridize also and i am meticulous about my lables being valid.

I would love to see the lineage of Tim Hoppers' JXB. We don't have flowering Jubaeas here in Florida, and all of the Butia/Jubaea hybrids here back in the day were BXJ that were produced by Merrill Wilcox and Ed Brown because they traveled to distant lands to collect Jubaea pollen, hence producing the BXJ.

I have tossed around the idea about buying a cpl of Tim Hoppers' JXBXS but i would like to know if it is a JXB or a BXJ that is the mother palm.

Tim probably has some connections in Cali i would imagine and that would make it a true JXB.

Would be cool to know all the parents!

[mjff]

This one is from Patrick. It says "(Jubaea x Butia) x Queen".

This is one of five, from Tim Hooper.

My understanding is Patric does his hybrids at Dick's, and the Jubutiagrus come from Dick's monster B x J. Not sure Dick even has a flowering J x B. Technically, I guess they should be called Bujubeagrus.

I agree Martin. Dick posted on another thread that the hybrids were mislabled, should have been BXJXB. BXJ is self sterill, so it would have to been polinated by Butia or Jubaea to develop seed. Those were the hybrids sold as JXB. No worries, but i just wanted to clear that up seeing that i hybridize also and i am meticulous about my lables being valid.

I would love to see the lineage of Tim Hoppers' JXB. We don't have flowering Jubaeas here in Florida, and all of the Butia/Jubaea hybrids here back in the day were BXJ that were produced by Merrill Wilcox and Ed Brown because they traveled to distant lands to collect Jubaea pollen, hence producing the BXJ.

I have tossed around the idea about buying a cpl of Tim Hoppers' JXBXS but i would like to know if it is a JXB or a BXJ that is the mother palm.

Tim probably has some connections in Cali i would imagine and that would make it a true JXB.

Would be cool to know all the parents!

Tim posted above that his are ((JxB)xB)xS

Looks like my other Jubaea is going to flower this spring, and I should be able to get to this one to collect pollen since the fronds aren't as close together on that one.

[Rafael]

Rafael, you are not alone, I live 50 metres from the sea and have left one of Tim Hoppers out whilst -2c. So far it looks ok.