They came as Ravenea rivularis but...

[Carlo Morici]

"Viveros Subtropicales", in Valle Guerra (Tenerife), is growing thousands of these seedlings. They are two years old.

The seeds were purchased as Ravenea rivularis, but they think they are not because they know well R.rivularis and say that it should be different and much larger at this age.

I really do not know, but I am sure some of you may give an opinion

Carlo

[cfkingfish]

It looks as though they may not be Ravenea at all, possibly Masoala or Marojejya insignis.

[chris.oz]

Hi Carlo,

Both  appear to be starting formation of a heel.  Thats certainly a characteristic of Ravenea, and the petiole bases are shaped  like ravenea....About the spotted petioles,  I am not sure at all.   In view of Christians opinion,  suggest you wait for them to go pinnate... if they do !

[Tyrone]

Hi Carlo,

If it's forming a heel it aint R rivularis, but it could be one of the other Ravenea's. From the looks of it I'd say it isn't R sambiranensis or glauca. Just at a wild guess it could be R robustior.

Do you remember what the seed looked like?

regards

Tyrone

[DoomsDave]

(cfkingfish @ Dec. 26 2007,15:08)

QUOTE

It looks as though they may not be Ravenea at all, possibly Masoala or Marojejya insignis.

I agree.

[Jeff Searle]

Carlo,

     I have a crop of about 100 plants that are identical in size and looks, right down to the black spots on the petioles. They came in as Ravenea krociana. I'll try and get a picture for you.

Jeff

[MattyB]

I thought Masoala when I saw those.  I've never seen M. insignis.

[Carlo Morici]

Thank you friends for all the useful wild-guessing. Today I met the grower and he told me they trusted the seeds because they looked like Ravenea rivularis. Does this help to exclude more species or genera?

Also, I posted the same pictures in the Spanish palm forum and Carlos Simón replied with pictures of his seedlings of Ravenea sp. Giant because they look similar. Here it is: http://www.infojardin.com/foro/showthread.php?t=67397

Jeff, please show your R. krociana.

Carlo

[mike in kurtistown]

They looked like the results of what I purchased from Ortanique as the "giant" Ravenia. Joseph Prabakar sent me a photo from habitat. If I have his permission, I will post it.

[Carlos Simón]

Hi,

Here are some closeup´s pictures of Ravenea sp. "Giant"

Mike, I´d like to see your picture to know what I´m going to have in the future  ::

Regards,

Carlos

[JD in the OC]

Ravenea "Giant" is the first thing that came to mind for me.  Seedlings have those blackish mealies on them...

JD

[Carlo Morici]

Now we are waiting for three pictures!

- Jeff's pictures of R. krociana seedlings

- Joseph's picture of the adult R.sp.Giant.

- Carlos Simon full-sized avatar  :laugh:

Carlo

[mike in kurtistown]

I'll assume Joseph's OK. Here is his pic of Ravenia "giant". Not too good a pic, but gives some idea. I wasn't aware of any "mealy bug" markings but I never really looked for them. Otherwise, mine are like the seedlings in post 1. I'll get a pic of my seedlings in the next few days.

[ellidro]

Here's what I have as Ravenea Krociana.  Looks identical!

[BS Man about Palms]

Nick where did you get that one?

I may have a 15 gal sized one, I'll have to take a pic.

[Carlos Simón]

Here's what I have as Ravenea Krociana.  Looks identical!

Yes, It´s R. krociana for sure. I´ll ask to Paul to keep some plants for me    

full-sized avatar

 

I don´t think the god "bimbache" allows me    :cool:

[Carlos Simón]

Mike, thank you for the picture!

That´s curious, it seems that this palm lives in an ecological similar situation to R. rivularis. Typhonodorum lindleyanum only lives in swampy areas!

Regards,

Carlos

[deezpalms]

Here is what I recently bought as R. species "giant" from JD Andersen at his nursery in Hawaii.

[BS Man about Palms]

Dave, that looks really nice!

I was gonna post my "similar" palms here, but I thought a new thread?

[Carlo Morici]

(ellidro @ Dec. 29 2007,04:10)

QUOTE

Here's what I have as Ravenea Krociana.  Looks identical!

"Identical" is the word!

Here are some more pictures of larger Ravenea krociana, stolen from other threads in Palmtalk:

Phil Bergman's picture from "Encinitas Sightings at Nursery".

Jeff Searle's picture from "Madagascar Expedition 06"

Now there is one more step to walk on. According to Palms of Madagascar, seed sizes are the following:

R.rivularis   5.5-6 x 5.5 mm

R.krociana  18-20 x 16-21 mm

How did they confuse seeds if there is such a dramatical difference in size?   ???

The plants I have at home don't have any seed remain left, I should check the ones at the nursery.

Carlo

[mike in kurtistown]

Here are pictures of my "giants", a little superfluous after Dave's posting of Jerry Anderson's plants. And they do have the same medium brown mealy bug markings. And are developing "heels". Seeds were 0.35 inch (0.9 cm) in diameter.

[mike in kurtistown]

And here are the mealy bug markings.

[Carlo Morici]

Ravenea krociana is reported in Palms of Madagascar growing in one location at about 500 m on the SE tip of Madagascar. A good candidate for resisting cold and wet conditions. Any experience?

Why is Ravenea sp.Giant not one more collection of the widespread R.robustior? Where is it from?

Carlo

[Carlo Morici]

I am back to the same plants, more than a year later. Those palms grew a bit and the nursery donated some of them to the Palmetum. Here are some recent pictures.

So what do you think? R.krociana, R.sp.Giant?

[Carlo Morici]

[BS Man about Palms]

Carlo, those are looking good!!

Since this started, I've heard that giant and krociana may be the same...dunno.

[DoomsDave]

They're wonderful what ever they are . . . .

Will they ship to Califonria in the USA?

[Moose]

Carlo - I got one of Jeff Searle's Ravenea krociana. It is in a 7 gallon and ready to go in the ground. Although it is much larger than the palms in your pictures they appear to be the same species.

Jeff and/or Bill, what is your opinion?

Ron.

[BS Man about Palms]

I was kinda alluding to that in my post... (poorly)

[Tyrone]

I just got in a heap of R krociana seed and it's meant to be a large seed, bigger than robustior and rivularis. If the seed is 0.9cm in diameter that grew those palms it's probably something else, as the seed I got were up to 2cm + long. Also R krociana has generally more than one seed per fruit, so the seed can need 2 or maybe 3 seed to form a sphere if you know what I mean, with a sharp bit at one end. Is that what the seed for these plants looked like or were they round. If they were round and 0.9cm in diameter, no wonder they thought they were R rivularis when the seed was collected becasue that's what they look like. However R rivularis doesn't get a heel, or get those markings.

They're nice plants.

Best regards

Tyrone

[peachy]

They look just like my kroc. Be happy...a kroc costs 3 times as much as a rivularis anyway!!!!!

Peachy

[Carlo Morici]

Tyrone, more than a year ago they told me the seed was confused with R.rivularis. I might ask again, but memory can fade away, as well as any seeds attached to the seedlings.

Peachy, they are much slower than rivularis... see they are 3,5 years old, well grown in a nursery. R.rivularis would me much, much larger.

Dave, they ship abroad those palms through the website www.canarius.com ... I don't think they sell outside Europe.

Now, I wander where should I plant them. I can chose a slope, regular flat land, or the islet within the main pond. Any idea? A fast-draining slope or the islet with some roots underwater?!?

Suggestions?

Carlo

[Charles Wychgel]

Carlo I planted them out in December on flat land and in full sun.

They must have suffered from the coldest winter we had in 40 years but they are alive and well, albeit very yellow.

They are in active growth again here is a photo from March

Conclusion:they are quite hardy but do need heavy feeding, maybe I should use more fertilizer

[Moose]

Carlo - If my memory serves me correctly, Ravenea krociana in habitat grows as an understory palm until it becomes robust and emerges from the canopy. This being said, it would make sense to provide semi-shade in warm to hot climate areas while it is a juvenile. Like most Ravenea ssp.'s this palm likes water. Mine is in a 7 gallon container with a saucer under it, leaving it's feet wet constantly. Prior to adding the saucer, the newly emerging fronds were diminishing in size. This was happening even with a healthy dose of nuticote added months earlier. The addition of the saucer provide immediate results with the next emerging frond.

My recommendation is to position this palm in an area in the garden that will provide it adequate water. I am unfamilar with the sun intensities of the Canary Islands so that is a variable that you will need to address.

Kindest regards,

Ron

[Carlo Morici]

Charles,

Something like that happened to me. I had at my place two potted plants from this batch and this winter they turned quite yellow, and even produced a leaf with some necrosis. Rather than yellow it was a very pale green, almost white. I thought it was probably lack of nutrients in the pot, rather than cold (maaany nights at 10 C). They were transplanted about one month ago, and they are green and growing now.

Ron,

Thank you for the information. I will think about it. Pond or slope, both can have adequate water, as much as we want every 2 or 3 days, but drainage would be much different. As for sunlight, it is quite intense, but temperatures are never too hot, so I think we can plant them in full sun, and we can shade them during the first two years with our portable tents of shade cloth.

Carlo

[Toby]

I cannot imagine these are R. krociana, the seeds are not even remotely like R. rivularis but more than 10 times as big, you would notice immediately. The only large Ravenea I know that have small seeds are R. rivularis, R. sambiranensis and R. madagascariensis. Best, TOBY

[Carlo Morici]

Thank you Toby, for your reply from a seed-expert. My experience with this genus is very basic.

I will ask them again about the seeds that originated this plants.

Carlo

[Carlo Morici]

Decision taken. Whatever they are, three of them are now planted in the ground. One is by the Malgasy lake and two in an islet within the lake. A fourth is waiting in the greenhouse.

...So I asked my boss what will we do if we will ever get a R.musicalis and she said: Go further, we will just build a new islet!

Carlo

[Rafael]

One of these mistery seedlings is mine since 2011 and it is definitely krociana.