livistona mariae and livistona rigida

[gyuseppe]

Some years ago,said it was only 1 species.

the seed of Livistona rigida and smaller.

the Livistona rigida and much red.

on leaves of Livistona rigida there are small spines.

the leaves of Livistona mariae are longer and thinner.

the leaves of Livistona rigida are shorter and wider.

resistance to cold? Livistona rigida perhaps the most resistant

And finally sorry for my English !

[mcwolf]

Hi Gyuseppe,

the Livi Mariae is beautiful. Probably the best red fan palm to cultivate in moderate climates. I'd really like to have one, too. I guess I have to try my luck and order some seeds since I never saw one in reality.

Keep us posted what those babies will look like later on.

Ciao,

Wolfe

[John in Andalucia]

Hi Giuseppe, I like the colours. I have some Livistona seedlings that are deep red, with narrow strap leaves. The seeds came from Colin. I still don't know what species they are!

[tropicbreeze]

I've seen both in habitat, L. rigida is well named. But going by habitat, L. mariae should be far more cold tolerant than L. rigida.

[Walter John]

Here's a group of red Livistona seedlings in Kershaw park, Rockhampton.

[sonoranfans]

Here is my L. Rigida from last year in arizona. It seemed to become more maroon/red when the summer sun hit it last year. It is in a very harsh position sun wise, the toughest position, that burns a nearby butia in the heat of the summer with hottest mid and late day sun. This one grows fastest in 100F+ heat.

[Tyrone]

Gyuseppe That is some lovely red on the rigida.

Just looking at your mix in the pots, it looks way too heavy for a pot. Is it clay. I think you may have rotting problems in that mix. I would use something that drains much quicker. They'll grow much much quicker in a better mix and won't rot either.

Happy growing.

Best regards

Tyrone

[gyuseppe]

Hi Giuseppe, I like the colours. I have some Livistona seedlings that are deep red, with narrow strap leaves. The seeds came from Colin. I still don't know what species they are!

john if and very red and Livistona rigida ?

[gyuseppe]

I've seen both in habitat, L. rigida is well named. But going by habitat, L. mariae should be far more cold tolerant than L. rigida.

have survived very well on 1 winter in a sheltered, I think Livistona rigida reacted well

[gyuseppe]

Here's a group of red Livistona seedlings in Kershaw park, Rockhampton.

are small livistona mariae or Livistona rigida ?

[gyuseppe]

Just looking at your mix in the pots, it looks way too heavy for a pot. Is it clay. I think you may have rotting problems in that mix. I would use something that drains much quicker. They'll grow much much quicker in a better mix and won't rot either.

ok Tyrone ,certainly I follow your advice

[peachy]

Hi Gyuseppe,

the Livi Mariae is beautiful. Probably the best red fan palm to cultivate in moderate climates. I'd really like to have one, too. I guess I have to try my luck and order some seeds since I never saw one in reality.

Keep us posted what those babies will look like later on.

Ciao,

Wolfe

Hey Wolfe, save your money. It's a nasty tatty, spiny thing and a menace to keep looking tidy in real life when fully grown. A red latan is much nicer, tho I dunno how they would go on the cape. Sabal rosei would thrive there however.

Peachy

[John in Andalucia]

john if and very red and Livistona rigida ?

Not sure, Giuseppe. Here'a a line-up of some of my Livistona for comparison:

Livistona nitida (left)

Livistona decipiens (right)

Livistona sp.? (front) Seed from Rockhampton - tiny, maybe 1/4 inch - 8mm diameter. First strap leaves half the width of the other two species in the photo.

[gyuseppe]

john if you have small thorns on the leaves and Livistona rigida.

the shape of the leaves seems your Livistona mariae-->you become very red in the sun

[tropicbreeze]

Gyuseppe That is some lovely red on the rigida.

Just looking at your mix in the pots, it looks way too heavy for a pot. Is it clay. I think you may have rotting problems in that mix. I would use something that drains much quicker. They'll grow much much quicker in a better mix and won't rot either.

Happy growing.

Best regards

Tyrone

Don't think L. rigida needs good drainage. This photo was taken in July, middle of the dry season and these plants are still standing in a lot of water. It's obvious they spend most of the year in water. At Bitter Springs they grow beside the springs in ground that's waterlogged the whole year.

I'll have to post some of my L. rigida photos on another thread.

[mcwolf]

Hi Peachy, I don't wanna hijack this thread but I've got 2 red Latania seedlings but I'm not sure if they will ever by happy outside of my greenhouse. I might test it next summer. Mariae should be a safe bet and might even keep longer its red fans than the Latania which turns green quite soon I guess. Let me google Sabal rosei since I never heard of it. Thanks for the input and extension of my wish-list

[Tyrone]

Gyuseppe That is some lovely red on the rigida.

Just looking at your mix in the pots, it looks way too heavy for a pot. Is it clay. I think you may have rotting problems in that mix. I would use something that drains much quicker. They'll grow much much quicker in a better mix and won't rot either.

Happy growing.

Best regards

Tyrone

Don't think L. rigida needs good drainage. This photo was taken in July, middle of the dry season and these plants are still standing in a lot of water. It's obvious they spend most of the year in water. At Bitter Springs they grow beside the springs in ground that's waterlogged the whole year.

I'll have to post some of my L. rigida photos on another thread.

Yes, but in a pot (not the ground) they'll probably die in clay. Only half a dozen drain holes to lose water, and that aint going to happen with clay in a pot. It's not so much the water, it's the available oxygen in the mix. In the wild in boggy soil, there will still be water movement and therefore some oxygen in the water etc. But a pot is just too small and all available oxygen would be used up pretty quickly.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

Hi Peachy, I don't wanna hijack this thread but I've got 2 red Latania seedlings but I'm not sure if they will ever by happy outside of my greenhouse. I might test it next summer. Mariae should be a safe bet and might even keep longer its red fans than the Latania which turns green quite soon I guess. Let me google Sabal rosei since I never heard of it. Thanks for the input and extension of my wish-list

Hey mcwolf, it's great to see another southerner on board from the other side of the big blue pond. Welcome.

Best regards

Tyrone

[ariscott]

So... we have 2 members (that I know of) from South Africa now :)??

[peachy]

So... we have 2 members (that I know of) from South Africa now :)??

3 in fact that I can count !! And one from Congo !!

[mcwolf]

Thanks Tyrone for the warm welcome. I reckon that I can learn a lot especially from you since your climate is probably the closest to ours that I can get on your continent. You're really pushing limits and that's some kind of a role model to me.

I know everyone is trying hard but it's so much more difficult to me judging this effort if someone lives in a hot summer-rain area for example.

The pure turn-out of 2-3 South Africans in this forum reflects pretty much the little interest of people to learn about new things and get passionate about it. My neighbourhood consists mainly of Phoenix sp. and Washi sp. even though we can grow likes as Hyophorbe Langenicaulis and other more sensitive palms. Even Nikaus are non-existent. You guys might have the same issues in your area, though.

Have a nice spring in the north and to the rest a mild winter.

Cheers,

Wolfgang

[Tyrone]

No worries Wolfgang. It's nice to be welcomed.

Looking at your signature, we are similar in climate, although Perth's winter rainfall is generally higher, a bit warmer at night and a bit cooler during the day than you guys(probably due to extra cloud cover). Encephalartos cycads grow brilliantly here. Most of what is planted here in Perth is Phoenix, Washy, Syagrus rommies everywhere, Howea's, but also Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, and Archontophoenix alexandrae. That's about it. Rhopalostylis (Nikau's, Norfolk Island Palms, the Cheeseman Island variety and the Chatham Island Nikau's) should love your climate. Also Howea's, and the Australian Livistona's should do very well for you too, and most of the other Livistona's as well. Do people grow Howeas, Archontophoenix and Livistona in SA?

Don't worry about others lack of interest in your area. I'm the only active West Ozzie here now (where are the rest of you guys????. Some local company would be nice.).

I love pushing the limits, well as far as what is reasonable. I can't be bothered trying Verschafeltia (Seychelles Stilt Palm) or a Pigafetta (Wanga Palm), as I would need a volcanic vent in the ground to keep the air warm in winter, and that aint going to happen. I do have a coconut which I've got big hopes for, now that it has with a bit of help, flown through two winters. I find with growing palms away from their natural environment, you have to accurately know your own climate, try to get as accurate picture of the climate that the palm or plant originated from, then try to use your own microclimates to get as close to what the plant wants. Of course some plants and palms are really quite adaptable and forgiving, whereas others don't give an inch. It's called experimentation, and along the way you'll get some spectacular wins, and some spectacular failures. It's all fun and well worth the effort.

Best regards

Tyrone

[mcwolf]

Hi Tyrone,

my wife checked real estate in Perth some time agao and I checked the palms on the photos Looks pretty much the same besides that Archontos are not so popular propaply they look pretty ratty (mine are the worst). The main problem for me is actually the poor availability of palms. I managed to organise Nikau sapida and Howea Belmoreana though. The only ones I know in a private garden in Cape Town. The only Livi which is readily availabe is chinensis. Another one which is probably Australis has never been tagged other than Trachycarpus. Chameorops humilis are also quite popular.

It's a mission to get a coconut even though they grow in abundance in the north of the country.

I like your climate because wind should also play a major factor to you. I'm not sure if we indeed have warmer day highs even though I wish we had. I never measured below +5,5 for the last 3 winter, though.

Cheers,

Wolfe

[Tyrone]

Wolfe I looked on the internet for info on Cape Town and it does seem a windy place, no doubt because it's right on the Atlantic, where it joins the Southern and a little further round the Indian ocean. Different ocean currents must hit and go crazy there. Our winters are basically the same, but Perth's summers are considerably warmer because we are 400km from the Southern ocean, which is a huge air conditioner in summer. We also get the high's sitting off the west coast like Cape Town does, and these pump SE winds across us, but for Perth these still can be warm to hot as they're a land breeze, whereas in Cape Town, they come right off the ocean.

Perth can be a windy old place, especially in spring and autumn and even summer. It's much calmer in winter, except when a storm rockets through, then it's crazy. I've made a tightly packed rainforest garden with a large bamboo screen plantings along the SE side to cut the wind down. My Archontophoenix don't tend to rip up due to the company the leaves have with everything else.

Howea belmoreana, and H forsteriana, as well as Hedyscepe canterburyana should handle the winds incredibly well for you and look fantastic as they all come from windy Lord Howe Island at a similar latitude to us. I would plant as many as you could fit in as a windscreen on your windiest aspects to cut the brunt of the winds, and then in the sheltered side start planting more delicate stuff that the weather would otherwise rip up.

5.5C as an absolute winter low for 3 years. WOW. That's USDA zone 11, but you are 1km from the coast so I can see why, but even still that's great. This would probably compare with Fremantle (coastal suburb) over here within a degree or so. I wish I could claim those winter lows, but I'm 18km from the coast and it does get much colder than that. I will bottom out at maybe 1 or 2C once or twice in any given winter. One year Perth didn't drop below 3.5C. Canopy adds a couple of degrees too.

Livistona decora should do well for you. I'll keep an eye out for seeds for you if you want.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Alberto]

I have seedlings of Livistona mariae but they don´t look the red like i see on photos from internet. Are this real L. mariae???

Here some pics. They were transplanted from a comunity pot some weeks ago and are recovering now.

The only red they show is at the base of the palms and some petioles.

[Alberto]

Someone?..............

[sonoranfans]

Someone?..............

they could be... In my experience the red comes out alot more in hot sun. I'd put them in the hottest sun possible...

[Ampli]

Someone?..............

they could be... In my experience the red comes out alot more in hot sun. I'd put them in the hottest sun possible...

I observed the same behaviour with my pot grow L. Rigida.

They turn red during the summer, when is exposed to direct sun light, and then return green during the winter when I recover them under a porch.

So Alberto, your seedlings could be green because you used to grow them in partial shadow.