Palm Layering

[Kim]

I saw some huge foxtails (Wodyetia x Veitchia?) for sale yesterday at what seemed an excellent price, but face the usual dilemma -- where could I possibly squeeze them in? (Never mind how would I transport them or dig such big holes!!) The garden is small, already probably overplanted though it doesn't look that way because the palms are so young. What to do?

This got me thinking about layering palms in the landscape; by that I mean matching up palms with different rates of growth or different shapes so that each has plenty of room as they mature even though planted closely. For example, multi-branching, slender-trunked Dypsis lutescens topping out around 20 ft. fronted by some taller, green-trunked Chambeyronia macrocarpa waving overhead. Or imagine the ground-level crown of a Ravenea glauca (slow grower) nestled in front of some of those faster foxtails. It seems careful planning could allow close planting without too much crowding and competition of palm crowns.

Do you plant with this in mind? Anyone have photos to illustrate this concept? If it is your garden, was the successful layering intentional, or did you get lucky?

[MattyB]

Great topic Kim. I did a lot of thought about this technique of planting in order to maximize the species I could grow in a small area at my old place. I concluded that you just have to plant the right species, started at the right size, in the right spot. What does that mean? The photo below shows the beginings of a layered planting bed that I created at my old place. I'll refer to the areas as left (which is left front), right (right front) and rear. Archontophonix myolensis on left and Archontophoenix cunninghamiana on the right, are the largest to start and will always be since they are the fastest. Their crowns will mesh eventually and continue to be the tallest in this planter. Next largest palm will be the Kentiopsis oliviformis in the back center, though much slower than the Archontophoenix so it's crown should be lower. Next is the double Ptychosperma elegans on the right. This will nestle under the A. cunninghamiana, never exceeding it, and will roughly be the same height as the Kentiopsis for a long while. The shorties in the front are Coccothrinax fragrans on the left and Ravenea glauca on the right. They are starting the lowest rank and will remain that way as the faster species outgrow them. And rounding out the planter in the back left is Dypsis albofarinosa and Dypsis psamophila on the back right which will clump and fill the area below the Kentiopsis and flow out over the stream. So that's 8 palm species in a planter no larger than 6' x 12' with all the space used as efficiently as possible. That's the theory anyway.

[DoomsDave]

I saw some huge foxtails (Wodyetia x Veitchia?) for sale yesterday at what seemed an excellent price, but face the usual dilemma -- where could I possibly squeeze them in? (Never mind how would I transport them or dig such big holes!!) The garden is small, already probably overplanted though it doesn't look that way because the palms are so young. What to do?

This got me thinking about layering palms in the landscape; by that I mean matching up palms with different rates of growth or different shapes so that each has plenty of room as they mature even though planted closely. For example, multi-branching, slender-trunked Dypsis lutescens topping out around 20 ft. fronted by some taller, green-trunked Chambeyronia macrocarpa waving overhead. Or imagine the ground-level crown of a Ravenea glauca (slow grower) nestled in front of some of those faster foxtails. It seems careful planning could allow close planting without too much crowding and competition of palm crowns.

Do you plant with this in mind? Anyone have photos to illustrate this concept? If it is your garden, was the successful layering intentional, or did you get lucky?

Kim!

You have recited chapter and verse of my life and gardening philosophy.

I layer, therefore I am!

For just one example, I put a king X alex hybrid right next to a much shorter D. lutescens, and everyone seems to love it.

Those foxy ladies will, from what I hear get tall fast, so put them next to something shorter . . . . .

"She posted as if she knew me

In all my rabid flair . . . . "

[LJG]

Kim, one of the best examples of layering (both depth wise and vertical) with Palms is Pogo's garden. I think what makes his so successful is that you must have about 180 degree of open viewing space. He uses lawn for the open space. This way when you layer you can step back and see it all and it is not a green mess. Many gardens use paths and they meander through tall palms and short ones all packed in. It really is hard to appreciate prized palms this way that you are truly trying to highlight.

Another thing that I have started doing was temp planting. I put some throw away shrub or perennial in the ground to fill in space to be removed later. I know that once one of the palm that is next to it will grow higher over the years and then allow me to layer vertically with similar palms or contrasting ones.

[MattyB]

I like the temp planting idea Len. Kim has that central lawn area for viewing so I agree that you can pack the plants into the planters and as long as you have a respit to step back into then it's hard to get too over planted.

[LilikoiLee]

Another intriguing topic from Kim!

I do the height and shape layering (great choice of words) but had not been factoring in growth rate!!!! In addition to the space issue, the layering helps us provide shade in a mostly sunny garden. Most of our palms are so small, I'm not sure photos would be of value, but I'll look around.

Related to this topic, does anyone have a design concept for integrating tall clumping palms? Many of ours are still waiting to be planted because they looks strange to me when one is just stuck in with a group of solitaries. I am also nervous about how much they will spread over time, possibly encroaching on their neighbors. The ones that we do have in the ground are with other clumpers spaced widely apart.

I also do a lot of temp planting, mostly coleus, which are colorful, cheap, easily propagated and can be trimmed to just about any size.

Your garden is small? Is any garden ever big enough for a palm fanatic?

Lee

[Justin]

Here's what I have going on - kind of hard to give perspective, but this works okay:

Here is the Larger Pic

A second angle:

Here is the Larger Pic

Third angle:

Here is the Larger Pic

The Queens were already there, but everything else was planted in the last 2.5 years. The Royals and Kentias were planted as 15 gallons, the Rhopies as 24" boxes or 15 gallons, and everything else was 5 gallons or smaller. They all grow at different speeds, with the Archontophoenix being by far the quickest. Planting small stuff near the larger boxes allows everything to fill in over time. It's pretty layered now, will be even more layered in 3-5 years, and then in 10 years everything should be pretty tall and it will look like an overgrown mess. Not that I'll be complaining.

[ariscott]

I like the temp planting idea Len. Kim has that central lawn area for viewing so I agree that you can pack the plants into the planters and as long as you have a respit to step back into then it's hard to get too over planted.

I use heliconia and gingers (full sun ones) for temp planting... They are easy to move and don't need any shade (which is premium at my place).

I layer my garden beds with everything... not just palms.

Regards, Ari

Edited August 5, 2009 by ariscott

[bgl]

Kim,

This is a fascinating topic. Landscaping, ultimately, is about art and in my opinion the ultimate in art since you're working with living things that will change over time. Creating a painting, as difficult and challenging as that may be, at some point will produce a final result which will be two dimensional, and won't change after the painting is completed. Creating a sculpture, possibly even more challenging, is another art form, that will also eventually produce a finite three dimensional piece of art that, again, will not change once completed. Landscaping, on the other hand, if done correctly will create art that will continuously change since the plants (hopefully!) will grow, and they will grow at different rates. Anticipating this, and planning for this, is pretty exciting, considering the fact that you need to be aware of not only how everything will look five, ten, fifteen years down the road, but also from every possible angle at any time in the future. Mistakes are probably inevitable in large projects, but if you get 95% or so right, you should probably be pretty happy with the results... And, as a last resort, there are always chainsaws!

Have a deadline on my monthly aviation newsletter today, so no time for photos, but will take a few tomorrow.

Bo-Göran

[BS Man about Palms]

Very nice Justin!

Everyone else: "Layering" is in my mind somewhere I just don't know how much I pay attention. I'll just have to settle for my ugly garden retreat.

[Kim]

MattyB -- that is exactly what I meant! I like your thinking in your plan, that's a fairly complex scheme -- are those palms still in place? It would be interesting to keep a pictorial record of their growth in relation to each other -- I'd love to see how your theory plays out. Have you calculated the effects of shade produced by the taller palms?

Dave -- yes! Layer them on! Actual implementation will vary for every palm grower based on location, microclimates, exposure, and taste in palms. It's fun to imagine possible combinations.

Len -- Praising Pogo's garden is preaching to the choir, it's one of my favorites. I can relate to it -- his garden is small, my garden is small; he's kept some lawn, I want to retain some lawn. Also we can grow the same things. I just need 30 more years to catch up... And I don't have the 'tidy gene', a serious drawback. The temporary plantings work great. Matt in SD recommended using bananas to shade young palms, which is working quite well -- although you really have to control their spread or they'll take over.

Ari, right now about 70% of my garden is "temporary plantings". Like you, I don't have much shade yet.

Lee -- perhaps Bo can help with your clumping palms question?

Justin, your garden has really developed. It looks great right now; add five years and it will be an amazing jungle.

Bo, you have described the challenge perfectly. And I hadn't even thought about viewing the result from every possible angle, which would be important in the case of larger properties, even more of a challenge. Looking forward to seeing your examples and hearing what your thinking was at the time of planting.

Bill -- hey, you are using a lot of "volunteer temporary plantings" but the effect is, uh, different. When I look at those fantastic palms you have planted, er, layered, closer than I would plant them , hope you won't need that chainsaw Bo mentioned.

Even though I already know intellectually how big a palm will be at maturity, I still get freaked every time I see a mature example of some of my little palms. A giant Rhopalostylis baueri or Caryota obtusa makes my hair stand on end and sends a shiver down my spine. But there I am, ripping out the 30-year old strelitzia regina to make room for the Hedyscepe canterburyana and a Ravenea glauca in between two Rhopalostylis baueri.

[MattyB]

Kim,

Sadly the plants and stream in the pic above have been dismantled. Both Archontophoenix died of rot and I dug up the rest to move to my new place. The ptychosperma is still there, underwatered and burning in the sun. I knew that planter would have been too much maintenance for a renter. I didn't really think about how shade works into the formula. I've never had shade.

[bgl]

OK, let's see what we can come up with! Just a few random photos and some of my thoughts. LOTS of different approaches with layering, and the only limitation really is how far your imagination will take you!

Traditionally, the concept of layering probably typically involves (if we talk just palms) smaller understory palms and taller canopy palms towering above them. Plenty of examples in our garden. I decided to go for our outside look (from Malama Street). A row of Phoenix roebelenii with Clinostigma samoense as the canopy palm. I know, not too exciting, but at the time when I was looking for a smaller palm, I needed:

1 - a smallish palm that could take full sun

2 - since this is along the street (and we had no fence at the time) I needed something at least 3 ft tall

3 - I needed 85 of them

Taking all those three requirements into consideration, there was only one contender: Phoenix roebelenii from Kapoho Palms!

[bgl]

If we were to distinguish between different types of layering, I can think of "continuous layering" and "distinct layering". "Continuous layering" would be when you create a "green wall" where you can't easily separate the different layers from each other. They will just overlap. This approach works best along property borders (to create privacy) and also inside the garden if you want to visually separate different parts of the garden from each other. "Distinct layering" would be where you have a distinct upper layer and a distinct lower layer and plenty of space between the two. This approach works great inside the garden and can extend over large areas of the garden. The photo in the previous post is obviously a somewhat different type of "Distinct layering", since it's used along our property border (but I did not want to create a "green wall" in this area).

This photo is of our Licuala Lane (to the left) and this would be a case of Continuous layering with a bunch of different types of palms; small, medium size and large ones. Licuala ramsayi on the left (and there are others, not in the photo), Calyptrocalyx, Satakentia, a few Phoenix and beyond them a group of Cyrtostachys renda, with various Clinostigmas as the taller ones.

[bgl]

A good example of "Distinct layering": taller Hydriastele (formerly Gulubia) macrospadix on the left and Actinorhytis calapparia on the right. The thick trunks are Clinostigma samoense. And a bunch of smaller palms way below the canopy. Some Caryotas, Calyptrocalyx, Pinanga and Areca spp. (not all are visible in this photos).

[bgl]

Let's try something a bit more unorthodox now - how about Corypha umbraculiferia as understory? OK, not quite! The palms "below" don't have to be small palms. Corypha umbraculifera will have the largest frond of any palm when fully grown (up to 17 ft across), and it's obviously not planted directly below the taller palms, but that's not really important. What's important in landscaping is of course the visual effect, and in this case the two Corypha umbraculifera (there's a smaller one on the right) are about 8-10 ft in front of the taller, and much faster growing, Clinostigma samoense. In time the Corypha will dominate this part of our garden, which happens to be right outside our front door (obviously by design!). The Corypha will never catch up with either the Clinostigma or the Dypsis lastelliana (on the left), so no conflict there.

[bgl]

Another example of a large palm planted below another large palm: Beccariophoenix sp. Windows in front (dead center) with a tall Dypsis lastelliana right behind it. The D. lastelliana is just barely faster than the Beccariophoenix, but enough to create a layering effect.

[bgl]

Another type of "Distinct layering" where the intent is not to create canopy: a little grove of Mauritiella armata with much faster growing Roystonea oleracea inside the group.

[bgl]

And another type of "Distinct layering" that will change over time. The row of smaller palms in the background are maroon Areca vestiaria with a group of Clinostigma samoense towering over them. In front of these palms is a group of smaller Lemurophoenix halleuxii. Much slower growing palms, but in time the Lemurophoenix group will dominate this part of the garden.

[bgl]

And last photo for now. This one is just a bit to the left of the one above. Again, a row of maroon Areca vestiaria (planted three deep here with the deadend part of Kumakahi Street on the other side), with a handful of Bentinckia nicobarica that are just beginning to "take off" and will soon be quite a bit taller than the Arecas. As with the previous photo, the palms in the foreground - Borassus flabellifer - cute and small as they may be today, will one day dominate this part of the garden. Even though they will be large and robust palms, they will not take away from the look of the row of Areca vestiarias behind them.

[peachy]

As a person with an untidy house, car, cupboards etc, it should be no shock to anyone that my garden is also on the messy looking side. At first I planted to a grandiose plan in my head, but later on when I priced the paving, lighting, waterfall, ponds etc etc ad nauseaum, I realised I would have to go for a 'natural' effect. I started with getting my boundaries growing, leaving lawn in the centre. But in summer here one has to mow 2 or 3 times per week, leaving no time for much, so I made an 'island' in the middle of it all. Then I discovered shade loving palms and it became time to establish a canopy. Now when I am planting something tall, I look up and if I can see a wide patch of naked sky, thats where I plant. Eventually I will have a hollywood, tarzan type jungle with muddy tracks running through it and little areas with seats so I can admire it all. As I used to live near the Bunya Mountains, I was often up in the rainforest there, so I suppose its influence shows a bit here. A kind of microscopic Bunya Mts, on level ground, sans Bunya pines and Stinging trees.

Peachy

[LilikoiLee]

OK, let's see what we can come up with! Just a few random photos and some of my thoughts. LOTS of different approaches with layering, and the only limitation really is how far your imagination will take you!

Bo-Goren,

I came on here tonight to add a comment to your previous thoughts on landscaping as the ultimate art: Landscaping has an additional level of complexity - knowledge of, and the ability to design a plan that will meet the needs of the multitude of mediums (plants) that he/she will use in the design. But when I got here I was swept away by your photos and comments. It was the MOST helpful palm landscaping information I've come across and it will make me appreciate your garden even more. Didn't think was possible.

Lee

[Peter Pacific]

Great topic, Kim, thanks for bringing it up. I think that gardens are as creative as their owners. I can only say one thing concerning layering: here, on the beach, I am not only considering the height and eventual crown spread but also culture. I am trying to put the water lovers together and the drier liking palms in different areas of the garden which adds another difficult planning aspect when you're ready to plant. Since I can only get seedlings (most of which are grown from seed) it is pretty slow going. I love to see other people's works and, Bo, yours is fantastic...perhaps a biennial at your place? thanks for your input, everyone, and also for making this post quite exciting. Peter

[bgl]

Thank you Lee and Peter, and yes, we atually did have a Biennial here at our place. That was during the 2004 Hawaii Biennial, and on one of those days the group visited three gardens in our area: the Sullivan Garden in Kapoho and the Swan Garden as well as ours here in Leilani Estates. The Swan Garden has since changed hands, and as many of you are probably aware, the Sullivan Garden is on the market for anyone who wants a property with thousands of unusual palms...!

Biennials have been held in Hawaii in 1980, 1990 and 2004, so it'll probably be a while before the next one.

[Kim]

So, Bo, now that you've had a little practice, you're starting to get good at this layering thing...

Seriously, the images and commentary would make a fine chapter in a book about your garden. I'm just saying... Lee is right, "swept away" is definitely the effect, you are quite the palm artist. A lot of very useful information from a practical standpoint as well.

I'm glad you included the Corypha umbraculifera in your explanations. After seeing your rooftop shots I was wondering how they would fit with the surrounding landscape and house, knowing the ultimate size of these monsters! I admit, even with your description, it is still hard for me to visualize the ultimate scene.

Love the Areca vestiaria used as a colorful screen behind the Bentickia nicobarica in post #20. So much food for thought, thank you!!!

[Annika]

So, Bo, now that you've had a little practice, you're starting to get good at this layering thing...

Seriously, the images and commentary would make a fine chapter in a book about your garden. I'm just saying... Lee is right, "swept away" is definitely the effect, you are quite the palm artist. A lot of very useful information from a practical standpoint as well.

Kim-

I know this thread is about layering and not publications, but I was very glad to read someone else encourage a book that would also include a lot of practical information.

I have no experience growing palms, but I still find the these threads very resourceful and interesting when I read them.

Annika

[LilikoiLee]

So, Bo, now that you've had a little practice, you're starting to get good at this layering thing...

Seriously, the images and commentary would make a fine chapter in a book about your garden. I'm just saying... Lee is right, "swept away" is definitely the effect, you are quite the palm artist. A lot of very useful information from a practical standpoint as well.

Kim-

I know this thread is about layering and not publications, but I was very glad to read someone else encourage a book that would also include a lot of practical information.

I have no experience growing palms, but I still find the these threads very resourceful and interesting when I read them.

Annika

Hi Annika,

I suspect palm growing is in your bones.

Lee

[Annika]

Hi Annika,

I suspect palm growing is in your bones.

Lee

Lee,

I suspect the same as well. Now if I can just finally settle on an island with a good climate and some great soil....

Annika

[LilikoiLee]

Hi Annika,

I suspect palm growing is in your bones.

Lee

Lee,

I suspect the same as well. Now if I can just finally settle on an island with a good climate and some great soil....

Annika

How about the biggest one is the Hawaii chain? I know a couple of really nice people on the east side who would recommend it highly.

[AggiePalms]

Speaking of layering...I don't have a good photo, but I do have four layers in my garden right next to a big Quercus virginica providing lots of winter protection. From top down, I have

Queen 12 ft of clear trunk

Caryota mitis 8 feet of clear trunk (I didn't think it would survive 24 degrees last winter)

Butia capitata

Sabal minor

And under those, still enough light from the edges for several Coontie.

Odd that the least hardy species are the tall ones, with the hardy species as understory. Nobody ever said I did palms in a rational way.