Butia capitata x Parajubaea cocoides

[Alberto]

´´Uma imagem vale por mil palavras´´ (An image counts for thousand words)

One year and two months growth

First pic : 11 oct 2008
Second and third: 7 dec 2009

Edited August 24, 2013 by Kostas

[Alberto]

Another angle: 7 dec 2009

[freakypalmguy]

Beauties Alberto.

[Tyrone]

Man that's quick. I bet your tomatoes are huge too.

Best regards

Tyrone

[PalmGuyWC]

Alberto,

Thanks for the photos. Mine has almost doubled in size each year, and the thicker the trunk, the faster they grow. Yours look great.

Dick

[kahili]

Alberto, that is extremely fast! and a beautiful palm as well. Makes me interested for sure. What are the coldest temps that it has seen since being in the ground? and did you protect it at the coldest nights? How cold do you think it could go? Winters here are very different each year, but on average we maybe have 5-6 nights at 17 degrees, a lot of nights in the twenties and all the rest are in the 30-50's for 4-5 months. Even the rainfall in the winter will vary quite a bit. I can protect it when the temps are in the teens, but I really don't want to have to in the 20's too much. What do you think about it growing here? I do have a Livistona chinensis that looks good that has been in the ground going on its 4th winter.

[DoomsDave]

Wow, that is fast.

Makes regular Queen Palm Mules look pokey by comparison . . . ..

[Alberto]

´´Uma imagem vale por mil palavras´´ (An image counts for thousand words)

Correct translation is: A picture is worth a thousand words

[iamjv]

Wow Alberto those look great and that is great growth for a 14 month time frame. Mine is the size that yours were 14 months ago... hope mine grows as nicely next yr.

My BxP went through a cold snap last week seeing freezing temps for 15 straight hours with an absolute low of 22F. No damage at all (phx roeb. and raphis excelsa planted right next to it received 40% leaf burn). Last yr it saw 23F with no damage. Jv

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Alberto those are very nice palms. They seem to have large heads of leaves so it looks like your two will grow into each other. They may lean away from each other and give them a more coconut palm look.

Kahili, mine had spear pull while in a small cold frame and in 5 gallon pots with no heat and a single layer of plastic. The outdoor temp was 14F for several hours and over at least two nights. There were other nights that got into the teens. The cold frame is completely shaded all winter and probably got to 14 or 15F (the root mass too because of the pots). The spear pull scared the h...l out of me. I thought I would lose them but all regrew well with copper treatment. I would imagine that planted out, in a wind protected area and with more size they would at least take 15 to 17F with little to no damage. Since they are so new and un-tested they may take much colder. I hope I never need it but I'm hoping that hybrid vigor will also give this hybrid the ability to resist cold damage much lower.

[Alberto]

What are the coldest temps that it has seen since being in the ground? and did you protect it at the coldest nights? How cold do you think it could go?

Since they were planted out it wasn´t really cold here,but in the past temperaturres in the low 20F were normal .

[Alberto]

Alberto those are very nice palms. They seem to have large heads of leaves so it looks like your two will grow into each other. They may lean away from each other and give them a more coconut palm look.

Yes,when i planted the seedlings ,the spacing looked OK. I planted out seven and now I can see that one is a pure Butia and not a hybrid. (It´s 1/4 the size,V shaped leaflets,grayer with less fibers)This Butia will be removed since it is in the background letting 6 BxP at this place. I like to plant 1 or 3 or 5 or more palms from the same species/variety together. If I try to transplant one the spacing will be OK (but how easy they transplant). I also thought about them leaning away If in future they will have the size and look of a Parajubaea cocoides. For now the fronds arch like a Butia ...........

What woud you do? Let the 6 on there place,or letting five with more space between the palms?

[PalmGuyWC]

Alberto those are very nice palms. They seem to have large heads of leaves so it looks like your two will grow into each other. They may lean away from each other and give them a more coconut palm look.

Yes,when i planted the seedlings ,the spacing looked OK. I planted out seven and now I can see that one is a pure Butia and not a hybrid. (It´s 1/4 the size,V shaped leaflets,grayer with less fibers)This Butia will be removed since it is in the background letting 6 BxP at this place. I like to plant 1 or 3 or 5 or more palms from the same species/variety together. If I try to transplant one the spacing will be OK (but how easy they transplant). I also thought about them leaning away If in future they will have the size and look of a Parajubaea cocoides. For now the fronds arch like a Butia ...........

What woud you do? Let the 6 on there place,or letting five with more space between the palms?

Hi Alberto,

Your the only person I know of that will have a grove of Butia X Parajubaeas. Lucky you. I don't know how to advise you on the spacing, but the one I have now has a crown about the size of a Butia and it is still expanding. I think they are going to be a large palm, and have a Butia sized trunk covered with fiber.

If you are going to move one, now would be the time to do it before they get to large. Judging from how robust they are and with hybrid vigor, I expect they woud move eaisly. Let us know what you do. At the moment, mine is covered with frost and it's about 25F. They are very cold hardy. My Para TVT growing near it and about the same size may not fair so well. Time will tell.

Dick

[FRITO]

Great growth Alberto! This is one to add to my list, for sure!

Ive seen Mark Heath's large one in Orlando, a testiment they take Florida weather and humidity fine! They are much more tropical looking and resemble a coconut more than a xButyagrus.

JV, I know you guys got some cold over there, 22 so early in the season, keep us updated on the results from 22 degress, my low last year was 21.6 in my yard...

Edited December 9, 2009 by FRITO

[kahili]

Thanks everyone for the info, it does sound promising. Jeff-I remember those two really cold nights well last winter! Myself and another person spent over 8 hrs covering all the palms outside for that cold blast we got. I think the lowest here was 11 the second night, and 15 the first night. Heres hoping that this winter will be warmer-although with the warm start we have gotten so far, I am thinking that we will have a colder than normal Jan and or Feb because of it, that seems to be the pattern for here.

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Alberto those are very nice palms. They seem to have large heads of leaves so it looks like your two will grow into each other. They may lean away from each other and give them a more coconut palm look.

Yes,when i planted the seedlings ,the spacing looked OK. I planted out seven and now I can see that one is a pure Butia and not a hybrid. (It´s 1/4 the size,V shaped leaflets,grayer with less fibers)This Butia will be removed since it is in the background letting 6 BxP at this place. I like to plant 1 or 3 or 5 or more palms from the same species/variety together. If I try to transplant one the spacing will be OK (but how easy they transplant). I also thought about them leaning away If in future they will have the size and look of a Parajubaea cocoides. For now the fronds arch like a Butia ...........

What woud you do? Let the 6 on there place,or letting five with more space between the palms?

Alberto, your yard is beautiful, so I do not want to tell you how you should plant. I should ask you how to plant, LOL. If I had as many as you do I would probably leave them as they are now. I like my palms planted as you do as 1 or 3 or 5 but the two together looks good too. The two in the picture with your son are not so close that they will slow each others growth down and will probably look very good together as they grow. I think the Butia mothers influence would make them easy to transplant. Like Dick said, if you do decide to move them then I agree now is the time. I hope you leave them as they are because they will be the only pair planted together in the whole world for a long time.

[PalmGuyWC]

In addition to Butia capitata X Parajubaea cocoides, Patrick Schafer has crossed Butia with Para TVT. The seedlings are small with only 2 or 3 strap fronds and he says they all look very similar when small. He says the P. TVT seedlings seem to have a hint of blue/grey like some of the Butias do. This could prove to be another exciting hybrid with the robustness of P. TVT.

Dick

[Nigel]

Alberto, I dug 2 up and they are both still alive and growing after 18 months so they transplant well.

[Alberto]

Thanks for that,Nigel!

[PalmGuyWC]

Thanks Nigel for some very usefull information. Did you transplant the plants in the UK or in Brazil, or move them from the UK to Brazil?

Alberto, after looking at your last photograph, I would judge the palms are to close together, and they will bump into each other. If I were you, I would move one for better spaceing, especially knowing now that they move eaisly. It's better to do it when they are small, than regret later on.

Dick

[Alberto]

Alberto, your yard is beautiful, so I do not want to tell you how you should plant. I should ask you how to plant, LOL. If I had as many as you do I would probably leave them as they are now. I like my palms planted as you do as 1 or 3 or 5 but the two together looks good too. The two in the picture with your son are not so close that they will slow each others growth down and will probably look very good together as they grow. I think the Butia mothers influence would make them easy to transplant. Like Dick said, if you do decide to move them then I agree now is the time. I hope you leave them as they are because they will be the only pair planted together in the whole world for a long time.

Thanks for the kind words!

I´ll think about it...transplant or not transplant...that´s the question! ....

[Gaston in Argentina]

Alberto.- You have very interesting palms growing in Carambei, i think is time for go and see them for myself personaly ......what about a meeting there with Nigel also?

Brazil ..

Merry christmast

[Nigel]

Alberto.- You have very interesting palms growing in Carambei, i think is time for go and see them for myself personaly ......what about a meeting there with Nigel also?

Brazil ..

Merry christmast

Hi Gaston,

Nice to hear from you. Why dont you come to Florianopolis first ? We can drive there to Albertos place in my car.

I would like to show you the Butias here on the beach to find out your opinion.

Dick, my hybrids were dug up and sold when I came to brasil.

[Alberto]

!Hola Gaston! Quanto tiempo,hombre!!!

You are always welcome here!

[Gaston in Argentina]

Ah, ah, its vacation here... good oportunity for take a trip to Florianopolis, Butias, Euterpes, Attaleas, Geonomas, syagrus and ButiaXParajubaeas.....:-) What a temptation! :-)

Happy new year amigos..

[Nigel]

Yessssss jump in the car......... you must come ............ in 2 or 3 weeks I wont be able to go anywhere or do anything !!!!

[mjff]

While the Butia x Parajubaeas may be pretty cold hardy, I have found that they are not fond of snow. Note the bronzing on the fronds from the several inch snow we got a few weeks ago. Lowest low so far has only been 20F at my house, though they are predicting mid-teens later this week.

None of my other Mules were damaged by the snow. Below is a photo of my Butia paraguayensis x Syagrus. I also have a Butia yatay x Syagrus, Butia Capitata x Syagrus, and Jubutiagrus. None of them were damaged by the snow.

Now the question is do I want to find out how cold hardy the foliage is on it or throw a garbage can over it with a work light. This may be the last year I can get away with the garbage can trick, so I guess I'll do that and wait another year to find out how cold hardy the fronds are.

[PalmGuyWC]

Martin,

Since your B X P has already been bronzed, I'd protect it if possible. They grow so fast it should grow out of any damage by the end of next summer.

Dick

[mjff]

I'm definitely not worried about it growing out of the damage quickly. The spear pulled on the Butia paraguayensis x Syagrus in the other photo after the ice storm last winter. A few months and 9 fronds later you can't even tell, and if I understand it correctly this hybrid is even faster. I didn't get much growth on it this year because Patrick sent it to me last spring as a trunk/root bound 5 gallon, and it spent the first few months growing roots. I'm not even sure how he was able to water it in that 5 gallon, there was hardly any room between the trunk and the side of the pot. Made the shipping a lot more reasonable though. Now that it has roots I expect it to explode this year, and go from its present 3' 6" OA height to over 6' this summer, so I definitely don't want to set it back again.

[PalmGuyWC]

Martin,

Yours is the first Butia X Parajubaea that I've heard of being damaged and they have been exposed to some pretty cold temps. Someone mentioned on here that snow should be knocked off the fronds if possible if it's going to be there for any extended period.

Dick

[mjff]

Martin,

Yours is the first Butia X Parajubaea that I've heard of being damaged and they have been exposed to some pretty cold temps. Someone mentioned on here that snow should be knocked off the fronds if possible if it's going to be there for any extended period.

Dick

I can confirm that leaving snow on the fronds is a bad idea, although most of my palms were not bothered by it. Unfortunately the snow fell at night, and I awoke to find everything covered by several inches of it. By late morning it was all gone, so I'm not sure knocking it off a couple of hours sooner would have helped much after it was already there for most of the night.

[Alberto]

I decided to transplant it!(First pic) and second pic its final place....

[Alberto]

Three guys help me with the transplantation. It wasn´t easy to pull the heavy rootball outside the hole;

[mjff]

Three guys help me with the transplantation. It wasn´t easy to pull the heavy rootball outside the hole;

Wow Alberto! I'm tired just looking at the pictures. Y'all don't have tractors in Brazil?

[Alberto]

Finally in it´s definitive place!

[maesy]

Three guys help me with the transplantation. It wasn´t easy to pull the heavy rootball outside the hole;

Great pictures Alberto!

The first time I can see how big your B x P's really are! Unbelievable!

Good Job!

Marcel

[Alberto]

Three guys help me with the transplantation. It wasn´t easy to pull the heavy rootball outside the hole;

Wow Alberto! I'm tired just looking at the pictures. Y'all don't have tractors in Brazil?

Of course we have ,but it wasn´t easy to a tractor to come there close to this place.

Wat you cannot tell from the pictures ,but I also was tired! We needed 4 man to remove it outside and pull it to its place...

This pic shows it´s new ´´company palms´´Now it will grow near a Jubaea (left),BxJ f2 right, Sabal mexicana, native queens,Livistona decora and a grey/blue fast growing bxJ f2 in background.

[Alberto]

Some of the remaining BxP,now well spaced!

(I realized now that this are my 2 first ´´bigger size´´pics that I could upload)

[PalmGuyWC]

Alberto,

Congratulations! I'm sure you have made history by transplanting the largest Butia X Parajubaea to be moved. I think it was very wise to give it more room as these should be large palms at maturity. Your the B X P king on earth!! It looks like you have beautiful soil, so it should jump-start into growth this year.

Dick

[mjff]

Three guys help me with the transplantation. It wasn´t easy to pull the heavy rootball outside the hole;

Wow Alberto! I'm tired just looking at the pictures. Y'all don't have tractors in Brazil?

Of course we have ,but it wasn´t easy to a tractor to come there close to this place.

Wat you cannot tell from the pictures ,but I also was tired! We needed 4 man to remove it outside and pull it to its place...

This pic shows it´s new ´´company palms´´Now it will grow near a Jubaea (left),BxJ f2 right, Sabal mexicana, native queens,Livistona decora and a grey/blue fast growing bxJ f2 in background.

That is awesome, and will just get more awesome as time goes by and they all grow. Very nice!

My B x P survived the latest arctic blast (12F with temperatures below 15F for 9 hours) with no damage apparent so far covered only by a cardboard box.