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Butia archeri in Flower

freakypalmguy

By freakypalmguy
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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freakypalmguy Grand Master

freakypalmguy

Posted
Posted

Hi all,

Here are some pictures of Butia archeri in flower in Norther California. The palm is in the garden of a friend of PalmguyWC. Hopefully Dick will fill in some of the details of this palm and garden.

Dick,

Maybe your friend will take some more pics of his garden to share, from these few, it looks very nice.

Matt

post-1261-1261665629_thumb.jpg

post-1261-1261665615_thumb.jpg

Matt in Temecula, CA

Hot and dry in the summer, cold with light frost in the winter. Halfway between the desert and ocean

Kailua_Krish Veteran

Kailua_Krish

Posted
Posted

Did he say how old the plant was?

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

PalmGuyWC Grand Master

PalmGuyWC

Posted
Posted

The Butia archeri belongs to David Sylvia who lives in San Jose Calif. David lived in N. Calif., then moved to Hawaii for about 5 years, then back to N. Calif. He was closely associated with Inge Hoffman who ran the seed bank for the Palm Society for many years. He helped Inge clean thousands of seeds for Palm Society members.

David has one of the premier palm gardens in N. Calif. and he's very knowledgeable about palms as well as other plants. He has a great collection of suculents that are mixed with his palms. His garden is immaculate. The B. archeri is about 8 years old.

I've tried to get David to particapate in Palm Talk, but he says he to busy with other things. I'm sure he has lots of valueable knowledge to share. He's growing many rare palms that are not often found in N. Calif.

Dick

Richard Douglas

iwan Mentor

iwan

Posted
Posted

David's Butia archeri is much larger in girth than the ones I have (had). This is a very nice garden! Thanks for the pictures Dick, we need to get you posting your own pictures. I posted this in another thread, but it is more appropriate here.

NorCal IPS Meeting Sept 2006

Robert

Madera, CA (central San Joaquin valley)

9A

Peter Grand Master

Peter

Posted
Posted

What a nice palm for a succulent garden-are these available in Socal?

San Fernando Valley, California

Mark Heath Veteran

Mark Heath

Posted
Posted

Hey Matt,

Did you try and talk your friend into crossing his Archeri??? Nice pics, and the inflorescence looks funky!!

Would be interesting to see a Mule w/ that as the mother palm!!

Orlando, Florida

zone 9b

The Pollen Poacher!!

GO DOLPHINS!!

GO GATORS!!!

 

Palms, Sex, Money and horsepower,,,, you may have more than you can handle,,

but too much is never enough!!

PalmGuyWC Grand Master

PalmGuyWC

Posted
Posted

I got a call from David late yesterday to inform me he was tidying up his garden and cut off the two inflorescences from his B. archeri. After he cut them off he discovered there were two immature fruit on the inflorescence. Bummer!!

Dick

Richard Douglas

freakypalmguy Grand Master

freakypalmguy

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Bummer on that inflo Dick, is he willing to allow hybridizing of this palm?

Thanks for the link Robert, Davids garden is really nice, although those pics are three years old, it would be nice to see some updates.

Hi Mark, this palm is up in NorCal at a friend of Dicks. I would bet he did his best to try to get the palm hybridized or at least collect pollen from it.

Peter, JD Anderson had some a year ago, you might want to check with him. I have four in the ground at my place, two from JD and two that I grew from seed.

Matt

Matt in Temecula, CA

Hot and dry in the summer, cold with light frost in the winter. Halfway between the desert and ocean

PalmGuyWC Grand Master

PalmGuyWC

Posted
Posted
  freakypalmguy said:
Bummer on that inflo Dick, is he willing to allow hybridizing of this palm?

Thanks for the link Robert, Davids garden is really nice, although those pics are three years old, it would be nice to see some updates.

Hi Mark, this palm is up in NorCal at a friend of Dicks. I would bet he did his best to try to get the palm hybridized or at least collect pollen from it.

Peter, JD Anderson had some a year ago, you might want to check with him. I have four in the ground at my place, two from JD and two that I grew from seed.

Matt

Matt,

I sent David your E-mail address and told him to send you about a dozen photos of his garden for posting on PalmTalk. He really does have one of the most spectacular palm gardens in N. Calif. I'm sure we will be watching his B. archeri the next time it blooms.

Dick

Richard Douglas

freakypalmguy Grand Master

freakypalmguy

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  PalmGuyWC said:
  freakypalmguy said:
Bummer on that inflo Dick, is he willing to allow hybridizing of this palm?

Thanks for the link Robert, Davids garden is really nice, although those pics are three years old, it would be nice to see some updates.

Hi Mark, this palm is up in NorCal at a friend of Dicks. I would bet he did his best to try to get the palm hybridized or at least collect pollen from it.

Peter, JD Anderson had some a year ago, you might want to check with him. I have four in the ground at my place, two from JD and two that I grew from seed.

Matt

Matt,

I sent David your E-mail address and told him to send you about a dozen photos of his garden for posting on PalmTalk. He really does have one of the most spectacular palm gardens in N. Calif. I'm sure we will be watching his B. archeri the next time it blooms.

Awesome Dick, I really look forward to seeing them as I'm sure other are too. I know we've talked about it before, but Butia archeri as the mother in some hybridizing (Jubea, Parajubea, Syagrus, Jubeopsis...) could really be something interesting.

Matt

Dick

Matt in Temecula, CA

Hot and dry in the summer, cold with light frost in the winter. Halfway between the desert and ocean

  • 1 year later...
ghar41 Veteran

ghar41

Posted
Posted

David and Eric's garden will be the site of our next meeting on Sunday, August 7th. Don't miss seeing this garden, a true Northern California gem.

Glenn

Modesto, California

 

Sunset Zone 14   USDA 9b

 

Low Temp. 19F/-7C 12-20-1990         

 

High Temp. 111F/43C 07-23-2006

 

Annual Average Precipitation 13.12 inches/yr.

 

             

Nigel Mentor

Nigel

Posted
Posted

I am sorry to say this but I do not think that is a butia archeri.

I think it is probably in one of the brasilain group of palms formerly in the paraguayensis complex, or could be a archeri hybrid if it was from a private garen..

The flower spathe is all wrong, as well as the size of the plant.

sorry to be a party pooper.

Resident in Bristol UK.

Webshop for hardy palms and hybrid seeds www.hardy-palms.co.uk

gyuseppe Grand Master

gyuseppe

Posted
Posted
  On 7/30/2011 at 6:11 PM, Nigel said:

I am sorry to say this but I do not think that is a butia archeri.

I think it is probably in one of the brasilain group of palms formerly in the paraguayensis complex, or could be a archeri hybrid if it was from a private garen..

The flower spathe is all wrong, as well as the size of the plant.

sorry to be a party pooper.

nigel the Butia archeri and very rare ?

  • Upvote 1

GIUSEPPE

Nigel Mentor

Nigel

Posted
Posted
  On 7/30/2011 at 7:01 PM, gyuseppe said:

nigel the Butia archeri and very rare ?

yes gyuseppe ,and also quite difficult to grow.

Resident in Bristol UK.

Webshop for hardy palms and hybrid seeds www.hardy-palms.co.uk

Alex-v Collaborator

Alex-v

Posted
Posted

Hi all

Nigel, Do you think mine is archeri?

post-4208-013802600 1312070212_thumb.jpg

post-4208-055787300 1312070242_thumb.jpg

post-4208-004232900 1312070270_thumb.jpg

Balaka17 Apprentice

Balaka17

Posted
Posted

Hello

Nigel, do you think that mine is real Butia archeri?

I cut the inflorescences because planted this year.

Thank you in advance

Best regards

Patrick

If you wish the other photos, say it I.

"Fous de Palmiers" France

Balaka17 Apprentice

Balaka17

Posted
Posted

Sorry, I do not know how to put the photo

I try again.

Patrick

post-3911-067227200 1312091631_thumb.jpg

"Fous de Palmiers" France

Nigel Mentor

Nigel

Posted
Posted

Alex, Patrick, I cannot say it is from the photo,but there is nothing to say not. The last photo reminded me of the photo on RPS website.

Resident in Bristol UK.

Webshop for hardy palms and hybrid seeds www.hardy-palms.co.uk

Nigel Mentor

Nigel

Posted
Posted
  On 7/31/2011 at 10:15 AM, Nigel said:

Alex, Patrick, I cannot say it is from the photo,but there is nothing to say not. The last photo reminded me of the photo on RPS website.

P.S. The petiole base is a good clue, because they do not have normal spines. Henderson says they are spineless, I do not agree totally they have partially formed spines whereas purpurescens is totally spineless however the pic at start of this thread shows strong spines.

Also the colouration of the trunk and petiole is very distinctive having a slight reddish tone.

post-432-040481600 1312110957_thumb.jpg

Resident in Bristol UK.

Webshop for hardy palms and hybrid seeds www.hardy-palms.co.uk

Alberto Grand Master

Alberto

Posted
Posted

Hello Giuseppe,

I´ll give you a tip.:)

When you put the italian phrase in the translator:

Nigel, il Butia archeri e (è) molto raro?

Always use the ( ` ) on the (e), because (e) in italian means (and) in English and ( è) means ( is ) in English

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Alberto Grand Master

Alberto

Posted
Posted

Nigel,I don´t agree that B.archeri is difficult to grow.

I germinated seeds from RPS and also seeds that my brother in law brought from São Paulo State,and I consider them easy!

Here is a thread about my B.archeri from RPS that I planted out and it is now 3X bigger .

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18199&st=0&p=305341&hl=archeri&fromsearch=1&#entry305341

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Nigel Mentor

Nigel

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 7/31/2011 at 12:44 PM, Alberto said:

Nigel,I don´t agree that B.archeri is difficult to grow.

I germinated seeds from RPS and also seeds that my brother in law brought from São Paulo State,and I consider them easy!

Here is a thread about my B.archeri from RPS that I planted out and it is now 3X bigger .

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18199&st=0&p=305341&hl=archeri&fromsearch=1&#entry305341

Alberto, I have seen your substrate with some barra and I think this acid soil is good for those butias ,but is very difficult to reproduce in much of europe where water is alkaline and these butias dont really like the good traditional substrates.

I think out alkaline water is the biggest problem.

In the other thread link you posted, both your palm and Michels are perfect examples of the butia archeri that I know.

Edited by Nigel

Resident in Bristol UK.

Webshop for hardy palms and hybrid seeds www.hardy-palms.co.uk

edbrown_III Grand Master

edbrown_III

Posted
Posted

Nigel,

I have only seen the B. archeri a few times in habitat. I will look through the photos and see if any have spines. I thought that was diagnostic --- but Dr. Glassman in vestigated all the species and that evidently was the consistent characteristic ( per his work)--- If you look at the Sylvia palm (1st photo ) it has flower and rachis morphology like the B. paraquensis in "Palmeiras Brasileiros" photos . This further supports what you are saying.

Best regards

Ed

MAUSER Proficient

MAUSER

Posted
Posted

If you have photos from the seeds of this palm, can be easily identified

  • Upvote 1
ESMUR3000000030009A.gif
gyuseppe Grand Master

gyuseppe

Posted
Posted
  On 7/31/2011 at 12:32 PM, Alberto said:

Hello Giuseppe,

I´ll give you a tip.:)

When you put the italian phrase in the translator:

Nigel, il Butia archeri e (è) molto raro?

Always use the ( ` ) on the (e), because (e) in italian means (and) in English and ( è) means ( is ) in English

yes alberto!

nigel the Butia archeri is very rare ? is ok !

  • Upvote 1

GIUSEPPE

MAUSER Proficient

MAUSER

Posted
Posted
  On 7/30/2011 at 6:11 PM, Nigel said:

I am sorry to say this but I do not think that is a butia archeri.

I think it is probably in one of the brasilain group of palms formerly in the paraguayensis complex, or could be a archeri hybrid if it was from a private garen..

The flower spathe is all wrong, as well as the size of the plant.

sorry to be a party pooper.

I think like Nigel, when I saw it, I thought it was a Butia paraguayensis

  • Upvote 1
ESMUR3000000030009A.gif
Alberto Grand Master

Alberto

Posted
Posted

Tomorrow I´ll photograph the base of the trunk of my of B.archeri and B.paraguayensis to see the difference....

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

MAUSER Proficient

MAUSER

Posted
Posted
  On 7/31/2011 at 10:20 PM, Alberto said:

Tomorrow I´ll photograph the base of the trunk of my of B.archeri and B.paraguayensis to see the difference....

Also, Butia archeri apparently has more curved leafs

ESMUR3000000030009A.gif
Balaka17 Apprentice

Balaka17

Posted
Posted

Nigel, here is the other photos with more details.

All the photos are of my garden.

The last photo shows Butia archeri to the right and Butia paraguayensis to the left.

I always look for rare Butia, purpurascens, microspadix, lallemantii, campicola, leptospatha, etc... if somebody knows addresses where I can find there?

Patrick

post-3911-000069400 1312172464_thumb.jpg

post-3911-072988100 1312172540_thumb.jpg

post-3911-044386600 1312172580_thumb.jpg

post-3911-007730600 1312172619_thumb.jpg

"Fous de Palmiers" France

Nigel Mentor

Nigel

Posted
Posted

Patrick,your plant seems to have more spines than I expected to see, but otherwise is very much like a Butia archeri.

Resident in Bristol UK.

Webshop for hardy palms and hybrid seeds www.hardy-palms.co.uk

Alex-v Collaborator

Alex-v

Posted
Posted

Hi Balaka...seeing your pictures I see clearer now. Seems that the petiole has a distinctive detail that has not paraguayensis.

kelen Community Regular

kelen

Posted
Posted

I'm sorry to say but this is not a Butia archeri.

Butia archeri don't have spines in petiole. The leaves are very curved.

I pollinate the female flower with Syagrus macrocarpa, Syagrus pleioclada, S. coronata, Butia eriospatha and Butia archeri pure.

post-2078-058048900 1312231106_thumb.jpg

Nigel Mentor

Nigel

Posted
Posted
  On 8/1/2011 at 8:38 PM, kelen said:

I'm sorry to say but this is not a Butia archeri.

Butia archeri don't have spines in petiole. The leaves are very curved.

I pollinate the female flower with Syagrus macrocarpa, Syagrus pleioclada, S. coronata, Butia eriospatha and Butia archeri pure.

Kelen you have a beautiful plant. It is 3 or so years since I saw the petiole of Butia archeri and I would appreciate very much if you could make a detailed photo of the petiole base.

I seem to remember it is not entirely clean like Butia purpurescens.

Resident in Bristol UK.

Webshop for hardy palms and hybrid seeds www.hardy-palms.co.uk

dalmatiansoap Grand Master

dalmatiansoap

Posted
Posted

I can only add to all this that its about a time to start a "Butia Fan Club".

Put me on the list, I wanna be in top 10!

:greenthumb:

Alberto Grand Master

Alberto

Posted
Posted

This is the B.archeri that I shew on Post 21from this thread (link 2 years ago).It´s now +-5 yo from seed.

post-465-099332000 1312288546_thumb.jpg

post-465-022963400 1312288640_thumb.jpg

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Alberto Grand Master

Alberto

Posted
Posted

Detail

post-465-066521500 1312288838_thumb.jpg

post-465-064337700 1312288997_thumb.jpg

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Alberto Grand Master

Alberto

Posted
Posted

More like kind off thickened fibers, not real spines on mine.

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Balaka17 Apprentice

Balaka17

Posted
Posted

I'm disappointed for my butia archeri, do you think it's a paraguayensis?

Patrick

"Fous de Palmiers" France

Nigel Mentor

Nigel

Posted
Posted

Patrick, I am confused by your palm. If it is not archeri it must surely be one of the new species described by Lorenzi formerly in the parguayensis group.

Please cut some of the old petiole bases back a little bit more close to the trunk and make a photo to show the colouration of the freshly cut wood, because this colour is very distinctive in the Butia archerii I have seen.

Resident in Bristol UK.

Webshop for hardy palms and hybrid seeds www.hardy-palms.co.uk

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