What is the tallest known XButyagrus?

[merrill]

Is the XButyagrus at McCarty hall at the University of Fla. the tallest known? There was a XButyagrus, now gone, on Gem Road near Orlando that was considerably taller. Like most palms, XButyagrus growth rate drops off as it ages. Butia yatay tends to maintain a pretty good growth rate to greater heights.

Merrill, near Gainesville, FL.

[DoomsDave]

Is the XButyagrus at McCarty hall at the University of Fla. the tallest known? There was a XButyagrus, now gone, on Gem Road near Orlando that was considerably taller. Like most palms, XButyagrus growth rate drops off as it ages. Butia yatay tends to maintain a pretty good growth rate to greater heights.

Merrill, near Gainesville, FL.

Hmm. How tall?

[Mark Heath]

Hello Merrill,

I remember fellow CFPACS members talking about a cpl of XButyagrus' that are at Deer Park that are very tall, the tallest in Central Florida. I have never seen these palms but let's hope someone has a pic for this thread to share.

[Eric in Orlando]

These are the tallest I have come across around here...

in Winter Park

also in Winter Park, next to I-4 just north of Fairbanks

in Mead Gardens in Winter Park, Araucaria bidwillii to the right

[Eric in Orlando]

along Princeton St. in College Park, just north of downtown Orlando

and an older specimen at Cypress Gardens

[Alicehunter2000]

It is amazing how much they do resemble coconuts when they got some height on them. At least for me....seeing as how we'll never be able to grow coconuts here.....this will have to be a suitable substitute. Does anyone have any pictures of XButyagrus with some nice curve to the trunk?

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

Some of them remind me of Coconuts as well. Not all of them do though. For instance, post 4 photo 2 and post 5 photo 2 REALLY remind me of coconuts. The others, well, not as much. From what I have seen, they either look like the ones in the photos I mentioned above, and look alot like coconuts, OR, they strongly look like qeens, or butias, but hey, that's just my take on em. Still love the Mules!

[Nigel]

Dear merrill,

Attached is a pic from uruguay of natural butyagrus. In background you can see vast stands of Butia odorata (formerly capitata).

This very old plant has an enormous trunk and height although I cannot put a figure on it.

best

nigel.

[edbrown_III]

Nigel,

Good show on the scenery and palm.

Walter Rogers has a big on at his old house in the Jax. --- it is pretty old

It is a good 10 feet or so above the roof top but is in a heavily forested neighbor hood--- I will try to go by there an photogrph.

Best regards

Ed

[floridagrower]

Eric,

I know of a huge one just south of downtown Orlando. I will have to look on a map and pm you the address. It's probabaly the same size or larger than the ones pictured. It has more of the coconut form. Can you go by and snag a picture?

[Steve the palmreader]

There was a few very tall ones in the Port Charlotte area about 30 to 40 ft tall I dont know if they survived Hur. Charlie

[JD in the OC]

Not sure where I found this pic.. somewhere on the internet. (They do look like coconuts when larger.. just have to put a lean in the trunk by digging up half the root-ball and allowing it to begin growing straight up again.)

[iamjv]

These are great shots of older xbutyagrus. Thanks for sharing, hoping ours here in central and south TX look like that at some point in the future. Jv

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

JDintheOC, the one in your photo definitely looks the most "coconutty" so far in this thread!

[kelen]

Butyagrus in São Pedro do Sul (Rio Grande do Sul)Brazil

[Eric in Orlando]

Eric,

I know of a huge one just south of downtown Orlando. I will have to look on a map and pm you the address. It's probabaly the same size or larger than the ones pictured. It has more of the coconut form. Can you go by and snag a picture?

Send me the address and I will go get a photo of it !

[Eric in Orlando]

Dear merrill,

Attached is a pic from uruguay of natural butyagrus. In background you can see vast stands of Butia odorata (formerly capitata).

This very old plant has an enormous trunk and height although I cannot put a figure on it.

best

nigel.

are these common in the wild ?

[Nigel]

Dear merrill,

Attached is a pic from uruguay of natural butyagrus. In background you can see vast stands of Butia odorata (formerly capitata).

This very old plant has an enormous trunk and height although I cannot put a figure on it.

best

nigel.

Eric, it is a strange thing, normally butyagrus is rare in the wild , with odd plants occurring. kelens photo is near to a place where I saw 3 butyagrus all close together.

Butyagrus with eriosptha is very uncommon.

In most places on the beach Butia catarinensis can be seen by the thousand without any occurrence of butyagrus, yet near to Sao Francisco do Sul I found a population with almost 5% natural butyagrus between,including what I believe were f2,s.

are these common in the wild ?

[JD in the OC]

Ken,

I agree

I'm going to truck some up to my parent's house in Richmond,VA. They say they never drop below the 20's where they are. I get them cheap cheap here in So Fla.. so, why not?!

JD

[Nigel]

Habitat Butia catarinensis with wild butyagrus

[tank]

Habitat Butia catarinensis with wild butyagrus

Nigel,

Is the Syagrus parent a "small" palm as well? Can they be seen in the photos? I'm assuming the butyagrus are the taller palms.

Thanks for the pics.

Jason

[Nigel]

Habitat Butia catarinensis with wild butyagrus

Nigel,

Is the Syagrus parent a "small" palm as well? Can they be seen in the photos? I'm assuming the butyagrus are the taller palms.

Thanks for the pics.

Jason

The Syagrus rom santa catarina, like the parana queen is variable, some are skinny ,some are very fat and huge resembling royals.

Oddly, despite the high incidence of butyagrus in this habitat I could not find a queen palm within sight. The bigger palms in the photos are the butyagrus, there was many there, mostly smallish .

[Mark Heath]

It is amazing how much they do resemble coconuts when they got some height on them. At least for me....seeing as how we'll never be able to grow coconuts here.....this will have to be a suitable substitute. Does anyone have any pictures of XButyagrus with some nice curve to the trunk?

Hey David,

I agree, they do look like Coconut palms! Check out my big boy!! Slight lean courtesy of hurricane Charlie.

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

Ken,

I agree

I'm going to truck some up to my parent's house in Richmond,VA. They say they never drop below the 20's where they are. I get them cheap cheap here in So Fla.. so, why not?!

JD

JD,

Richmond huh? Id love to see palms attempted there. There probably are some but I just dont know about them. I can tell you that Mules would most likely survive the winters in Va Beach. Windmills are a cake walk there. There are many mature and fruiting Butia Capitata there, as well as plenty of mature, flowering and fruiting Sable Palmetto, S. minor, and Sago Palms as well. I have seen pics of yards in VA Beach area that literally knock your socks off and you would think they were straight out of north Florida. Oh, and Spanish Moss is native and does well in VA Beach as well. I would bet Mules would work there, what do you think?

Ill see if I can find that photo of one of the yards in VA Beach. The photos really are almost mind blowing in how tropical they look for so far north!

[iamjv]

Mark, that lean is going to make that hybrid look even more like a coconut! Jv

[merrill]

I thank all of you for your very current, observant comments.

Hi, Dave from So-Cal

Haven’t measured the McCarty mule for some time, but it was 45 feet tall a few years ago. This mule was given to U. F. by Ross Laffler. It has survived quite a few other mules given to UF by several of us during succeeding years.

My guess re’ lake Gem Road mule was 55 feet tall.

Hi, Mark:

Haven’t seen the Mules at Deer Park for many years, but at the time the McCarty mule was way ahead of them. The Deer Park hybrids were quite healthy and attractive at their lesser height.

Hi, Eric:

Re’ Figure 4: That is a very impressive group of XButyagrus you’ve posted! Could you estimate their height for us?

The mule on Princeton St. is extremely interesting. For some reason, it has been extremely difficult to get seed from it. Years ago, when I watched it quite carefully, its seed had embryos on occasion.

Re’ Figure 5: The XButyagrus from College Park in Orlando has very rarely had fruit/seed under it in my experience. On occasion, the fruit have had embryos!

The XButyagrus from the Cypress Gardens is interesting in that it resembles to some extent the reciprocal XButyagrus.

Hi, Alice Hunter:

I’ve tried many times put a curve in a mule trunk; the problem is that they correct the curve so quickly that it doesn’t work.

Hi, Nigel:

How I envy you being able to go down there and experience the multiplicity of the cocosoid palms. Please collect, and produce as many cocosoid hybrids as possible! You have our very best wishes!

Hi, Ed:

You would do us a real service by posting what used to be Walter Rodgers XButyagrus; it’s been so long.

Hi, Nigel:

Your comment,” Oddly, despite the high incidence of butyagrus in this habitat I could not find a queen palm within sight. The bigger palms in the photos are the butyagrus, there was many there, mostly smallish.” Is it possible the queens have been frozen out in some intermediate catastrophic freeze?

Please accept My Thanks for all of your contributions. I’m going to look for some other appropriate photos to post.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[JD in the OC]

Ken,

Your optimistic comments are inspiring! I'm confident they will do well there. I grow palms for a living, so I want my parent's new house to be "decked out". I'll let you know how they do. I'm also going to plant some Serenoa and Rhapidophyllum too.

JD

[Nigel]

Hi, Nigel:

Your comment,” Oddly, despite the high incidence of butyagrus in this habitat I could not find a queen palm within sight. The bigger palms in the photos are the butyagrus, there was many there, mostly smallish.” Is it possible the queens have been frozen out in some intermediate catastrophic freeze?

Best Wishes,

merrill

Hi merrill,

Syagrus is a weed here , it grows everywhere and it is very unusual to find a location where there is not some within eyeshot.

Therefore to find a high incidence of butyagrus was a little strange, but I guess the syagrus were still within bee range.

[edbrown_III]

I thank all of you for your very current, observant comments.

Hi, Dave from So-Cal

Haven’t measured the McCarty mule for some time, but it was 45 feet tall a few years ago. This mule was given to U. F. by Ross Laffler. It has survived quite a few other mules given to UF by several of us during succeeding years.

My guess re’ lake Gem Road mule was 55 feet tall.

Hi, Mark:

Haven’t seen the Mules at Deer Park for many years, but at the time the McCarty mule was way ahead of them. The Deer Park hybrids were quite healthy and attractive at their lesser height.

Hi, Eric:

Re’ Figure 4: That is a very impressive group of XButyagrus you’ve posted! Could you estimate their height for us?

The mule on Princeton St. is extremely interesting. For some reason, it has been extremely difficult to get seed from it. Years ago, when I watched it quite carefully, its seed had embryos on occasion.

Re’ Figure 5: The XButyagrus from College Park in Orlando has very rarely had fruit/seed under it in my experience. On occasion, the fruit have had embryos!

The XButyagrus from the Cypress Gardens is interesting in that it resembles to some extent the reciprocal XButyagrus.

Hi, Alice Hunter:

I’ve tried many times put a curve in a mule trunk; the problem is that they correct the curve so quickly that it doesn’t work.

Hi, Nigel:

How I envy you being able to go down there and experience the multiplicity of the cocosoid palms. Please collect, and produce as many cocosoid hybrids as possible! You have our very best wishes!

Hi, Ed:

You would do us a real service by posting what used to be Walter Rodgers XButyagrus; it’s been so long.

Please accept My Thanks for all of your contributions. I’m going to look for some other appropriate photos to post.

Best Wishes,

merrill

Good to hear from you Merrill and keep posting I have mission for the week end. --- I havent been over to Walters house in about 5 years

Best regards

Ed

[Kumar]

Not sure where I found this pic.. somewhere on the internet. (They do look like coconuts when larger.. just have to put a lean in the trunk by digging up half the root-ball and allowing it to begin growing straight up again.)

JD, this one is too much like a coconut. I shall have to look more carefully at the 'coconuts' in my neighbourhood now - maybe they're all butyagrus in disguise!

[Alberto]

A sequence of photos that I made from a specimen in Curitiba some years ago. This is a B.eriospatha x queen:

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1103854523047705136NEWabu

[Mark Heath]

Mark, that lean is going to make that hybrid look even more like a coconut! Jv

Thanks JV! Hurricane season is'nt over yet so who knows what the final position of the XButyagrus will be.

Mark

[sarasota alex]

This is the tallest one I know of in Sarasota and definitely the prettiest. Looks a lot like the eriospatha x queen on Alberto's photo in one of the previous posts, except the trunk is white.

If anyone's interested it's on Mceachen Blvd, just over a block north of Wilkinson.

[PalmGuyWC]

Alberto,

I saw one of your hybrids, Butia eriospatha X Microspadix, at Patrick Shafer's recently. It is a beautiful small palm with many very arching fronds. It looks very distinctive. I also enjoyed seeing your attached photos of Butia lallemantii on your expedition with Nigel. Have you tried crossing B lallemantii with anything, maybe Syagrus?

Dick

[sonoranfans]

Great thread, thanks for all the beautiful photos! I love the hybrids, regardless of whether they look the "most coconutty". I dont need the cold tolerance as much as some, but I bought some small ones anyway because they are beautiful palms in their own right. Also I would like to thank all gardeners who hybridize out there for expanding the diversity/choices for the palm gardener!

[Alberto]

Alberto,

I saw one of your hybrids, Butia eriospatha X Microspadix, at Patrick Shafer's recently. It is a beautiful small palm with many very arching fronds. It looks very distinctive. I also enjoyed seeing your attached photos of Butia lallemantii on your expedition with Nigel. Have you tried crossing B lallemantii with anything, maybe Syagrus?

Dick

Unfortunately I don´t have pollen of B.lallemanti neither a Butia lallemantii growing in the garden. I want some!!!

It will be an interesting cross with Syagrus ruchinana...Think a slender multi trunked Butiagrus....

I remember that Kelen shew us natural hybrids with S.romanzoffiana on the topic about this palm...

[TimHopper]

Here are a couple of nice ones. Both of these were posted by others a few years back. Tim

[bubba]

Great shots of very tall XButygrus. I have seen the one near McCarty Hall and it is a mind blower.

As it relates to Butias, I do not know that I have seen so many specimens per square inch than in and around (or just to the North) of the UF campus.They appear naturalized because most housing in that area is rental and I do not think the owners pay much for landscaping. Back in the day, it was called the student ghetto.I know the area has nothing on their native habitat but it is still impressive.

I would love to see pictures of these tough Palms growing in Virginia Beach, Va and would guess they could flourish.

[Nigel]

The first one in Tims pic reminds me of this beauty....

[Alicehunter2000]

So much variation especially that last pic. I would like at some point to attempt a hybrid with my Butia's but don't have a good source for queen pollen. Most everyone cuts the inflorecents on their queens before they began to mature and none of my queens have flowered. One thing is for sure, I will be using these as a foundation palm on the next property. Better buy a bunch of seedlings now to get a couple of years of growtn before planting out. If I buy from one source such as Eric....would all the palms look similar, or is there alot of variation even using the same parent plants?

Mark, always enjoy looking at your plantings.....bout time for another photo tour .....but give that mule a haircut please he's looking a bit shaggy