Will this survive???

[Jastin]

So it took a long 10 hours of nonstop moving and digging to get this thing transplanted. I will be posting the rest of the pictures of the move soon but I noticed today that the crown is drooping really bad and when i went on the roof to check it out it seemed to be "loose". Do you think it will survive? is this caused by the shock? I dont think we bumped it or cracked it.

I want to thank Brett for hooking me up with this great big free palm! He has a awesome garden, I'll put up a few pics of that as well

This is in its new location but i'm not finished with it! More flowers and plants to go around it.

from the ground to the roof edge is 10 feet.

I will never try to move something this big again!!

[Jastin]

I tried to get all the angles to see the bend...

[Jastin]

The whole center is open because of the crown bending. I hope all this work wasn't for nothing

More to come of the move!

[Brett in Mission Viejo]

I think the weight of the fronds created the bend. As long as the growth bud was not damaged it should be okay. I think it will grow out of it.

Man, that was a bit heavier than I thought- but there was a nice root ball of damp clay loam which really added weight. I hope it was easier putting in the hole, than it was taking it out!

The cherry picker worked great!!

Keep it well watered until the new roots get established.....

Hope the Heliconia and Colocasia off-shoots I gave you get established too.

Cool.

[DoomsDave]

JAST!

keep us apprized, brotha man, you have moved epically and well

I predict success!

best

dave

[BS Man about Palms]

If you can reach it, I still stick with my 3 inch rule. If it moves three inches from a marked spear within the next 6-9 months, I think its fine...

Seen too many push 1 or 2 inches, then no more.

[Jastin]

We got it to the house and then said -now how do we get it off the truck! it was crazy to say the least and a victory every step of the way.

Brett- your the man! I planted the 2 cuttings last night at about 12am and they seem to be doing ok.

I still cant believe we did that!

Dave- Thanks! This thing really needed a crane but all we had was 3 guys, a engine hoist, the "green monster" ( will explain later ) strong truck and at the end a 4 wheeler!

Even though my buddys are not palm guys they loved Brett's garden and were a great help so thanks Abe and Dan.

I'll get the pics up as soon as I can.

[Jastin]

  On 6/27/2011 at 12:59 AM, BS Man about Palms said:

If you can reach it, I still stick with my 3 inch rule. If it moves three inches from a marked spear within the next 6-9 months, I think its fine...

Seen too many push 1 or 2 inches, then no more.

I will mark it tonight. I'm just really worried about the drooping and looseness of the crown. Have you seen this before and if so will it straighten up?

[sonoranfans]

When you dig a palm that big you have to take some fronds off or you risk dessication. You just canbt keep the whole crown, and trying to can kill the palm. You no longer have a good root structure to supply water to the palm and the fronds lose water by transpiration. The more fronds you have, the more water you lose. ANd right about now you have probably <20% of the roots left after digging. You should cut off 1/2 the fronds, and wrap the crown up and protect it from the sun for a few weeks so it doesnt lose too much water by transpiration.

[QUINNPALMS]

I moved a decipiens close to the same size as that , and the same thing happened , it never pulled through... I think SONORANFANS hit the nail on the head.

QUINN

[Brett in Mission Viejo]

Jastin,

Remove another row or two of fronds. Equal out the water intake and out take with the root loss, as the heat of summer is upon us.

The weight of the fronds in relation to the position of the 4 x 4 when transportihg might have stressed the growing point a little. In hind sight I would have positioned the 4x4 a little farther out or nailed a nice flat piece of plywood section to the 4 x 4 to even out the load. However, I still think it will come through fine.

See photio:

[Stevetoad]

Did you use the nipple laser beams like Matt told you to? That may be the problem...

[Dypsisdean]

  On 6/27/2011 at 12:59 AM, BS Man about Palms said:

If you can reach it, I still stick with my 3 inch rule. If it moves three inches from a marked spear within the next 6-9 months, I think its fine...

Seen too many push 1 or 2 inches, then no more.

I saw some big Caryotas grow six inches in a couple of weeks after being cut in sections and laying on the ground.

[pogobob]

  On 6/27/2011 at 1:31 AM, sonoranfans said:

When you dig a palm that big you have to take some fronds off or you risk dessication. You just canbt keep the whole crown, and trying to can kill the palm. You no longer have a good root structure to supply water to the palm and the fronds lose water by transpiration. The more fronds you have, the more water you lose. ANd right about now you have probably <20% of the roots left after digging. You should cut off 1/2 the fronds, and wrap the crown up and protect it from the sun for a few weeks so it doesnt lose too much water by transpiration.

What he said

[Jastin]

  On 6/27/2011 at 1:31 AM, sonoranfans said:

When you dig a palm that big you have to take some fronds off or you risk dessication. You just canbt keep the whole crown, and trying to can kill the palm. You no longer have a good root structure to supply water to the palm and the fronds lose water by transpiration. The more fronds you have, the more water you lose. ANd right about now you have probably <20% of the roots left after digging. You should cut off 1/2 the fronds, and wrap the crown up and protect it from the sun for a few weeks so it doesnt lose too much water by transpiration.

As per Ken's instructions I dug 3/4 of the way around a month ago to "prep" it and cut 8 fronds off. when we moved it I cut 8 more for a total of 16...does it look like i need to cut more?

[Jastin]

  On 6/27/2011 at 4:19 AM, Stevetoad said:

Did you use the nipple laser beams like Matt told you to? That may be the problem...

I totally forgot about that! I would have but we ended up using the magic carpet instead.

[Jastin]

Ok here we go so we get to Brett's place and had to check out the garden, not to many pictures this time though cause we had a long day ahead of us!

[Jastin]

Started digging again with my trusty roto shovel

[Jastin]

Wait...you guys take over so I can take a picture of this 11 year from a 5 gal Royal! What type do you think this is?

[Jastin]

I get back from taking the pics and see dan with a pick axe and no shoes on. I told him to move so I could rip this thing out of the hole with my bear hands but I didnt want to make everyone else look stupid so i didnt. - it was 10 am and we were already sick of digging.

[Jastin]

Dan wasnt sure about the whole thing but after digging around the thing as much as we could we had to rip it out. We couldnt get any angle on it to be able to dig under or behind it because of the concrete and foundation

[Jastin]

More pulling

[Jastin]

I rented a engine hoist for $20 and it did the job!

[Jastin]

Ok so now how do we get it on the trailer cause the hoist doesnt roll...

[Jastin]

All set! root ball over the wheels and strapped down. Traffic on the way home was slow which was good for the tree.

[Jastin]

Ok so now how are we gonna get it off the trailer? My buddy Esam comes over with his 4 wheeler and brings the "green monster"

Break time - my friends are sick of helping me and said that were not friends anymore.

My wife brings the beers and food-im forgiven!

but my wife cant stand the palm

[Jastin]

Im saying " you better not pull that thing and crush my royal!" some extra weight in the front and the captain is off! (Dan still isnt happy with me) we jacked the rootball up and slid the green monster under it, strapped it down and...

[Jastin]

In the hole! Last pic because i would have gotten killed if I told them to wait and "hold it" right there while i take a picture! Lots of water and rest for the palm and us....

[sonoranfans]

  On 6/27/2011 at 5:15 AM, Jastin said:

  On 6/27/2011 at 1:31 AM, sonoranfans said:

When you dig a palm that big you have to take some fronds off or you risk dessication. You just canbt keep the whole crown, and trying to can kill the palm. You no longer have a good root structure to supply water to the palm and the fronds lose water by transpiration. The more fronds you have, the more water you lose. ANd right about now you have probably <20% of the roots left after digging. You should cut off 1/2 the fronds, and wrap the crown up and protect it from the sun for a few weeks so it doesnt lose too much water by transpiration.

As per Ken's instructions I dug 3/4 of the way around a month ago to "prep" it and cut 8 fronds off. when we moved it I cut 8 more for a total of 16...does it look like i need to cut more?

I would cut the fronds back to no more than 6 plus spear and wrap them up in a bundle of cloth/burlap to hide themn from the sun. Then put a saoaker hose at the foot and soak slowly for at least 3-4 hours every day(test ground for wetness) for a month then back off. After 2-3 months remove the warp and see what you have got left. they cut all but 1-2 of the fronds off sabal palmettos here when they transplant big ones, failure to do so can kill them. Decoras like water so keep the roots wet and maybe put some rooting hormone on them.

[DoomsDave]

Jastin:

That was certainly a great job.

Now comes the hard part.

Be particularly careful to make sure your newly-moved Livvie gets plenty to drink. As Sonorafans pointed out, they're thirsty devils, and will dry up without enough water.

For that type, I'd err on overabundance to prevent desiccation.

That said, your chances of success are excellent: First, it's the time the palm will grow the fastest and recover best; Second, you are unlikely to get a Santa Ana wind, which can be DEADLY for a newly-transplanted palm; and Third, you're near the ocean, where it won't get too hot, compared to further inland.

Keep us apprized!

So we can all scream with victory when the time comes.

P.S., Livvies tend to grow in spurts of a number of leaves at once, rather than one leaf at a time like sabals do.

That means that if it's not pushing new leaves instantly, don't be quick to give up on it. If it tightens up in the ground quickly, you should be fine, even if it's a while before new leaves push. Give it a little nudge (today) to see if it moves a bit; unless the palm is enormously massive, it should move a wee little bit. (Don't push it so hard you knock it over . . . . ) After a while, it should tighen up in the ground like a pole stuck in there. If that happens, it's rooting into place. That can take a while. SOme palms root in within a couple of weeks, others take months.

Good luck!

dave

[Ken Johnson]

So now that everyone has seen the "pull it with a truck' method we will have a lot more dead palms around. The good news is yours looks like it has a chance. It is real good to water all the way to the top and make sure the trunk is soaked too at this point. If leaves turn brown it is worse than the crown drooping but for sure the drooping is caused by a lack of water.

[MattyB]

Wow! That thing is way huge! Great thread Jastin. Thanks for all the cool pics and funny commentary.

I do not like the look of that leaning crown. I think that the weight of the unsupported fronds kinked, and injured the growing point. If it was me I'd cut the entire center off of that palm, leaving only a few rings of outside, lower fronds to remain. This will take all of the weight off of the growing point but still leave active, green leaves to do photosynthesis. I realize that it's unorthodox and others will probably recommend against it, but I would have no problem removing the middle cluster of 8 or so fronds.

Anyone think that crazy idea might help?

[Jastin]

  On 6/27/2011 at 6:45 PM, Dave from So-Cal said:

Jastin:

That was certainly a great job.

Now comes the hard part.

Be particularly careful to make sure your newly-moved Livvie gets plenty to drink. As Sonorafans pointed out, they're thirsty devils, and will dry up without enough water.

For that type, I'd err on overabundance to prevent desiccation.

That said, your chances of success are excellent: First, it's the time the palm will grow the fastest and recover best; Second, you are unlikely to get a Santa Ana wind, which can be DEADLY for a newly-transplanted palm; and Third, you're near the ocean, where it won't get too hot, compared to further inland.

Keep us apprized!

So we can all scream with victory when the time comes.

P.S., Livvies tend to grow in spurts of a number of leaves at once, rather than one leaf at a time like sabals do.

That means that if it's not pushing new leaves instantly, don't be quick to give up on it. If it tightens up in the ground quickly, you should be fine, even if it's a while before new leaves push. Give it a little nudge (today) to see if it moves a bit; unless the palm is enormously massive, it should move a wee little bit. (Don't push it so hard you knock it over . . . . ) After a while, it should tighen up in the ground like a pole stuck in there. If that happens, it's rooting into place. That can take a while. SOme palms root in within a couple of weeks, others take months.

Good luck!

dave

Thanks Dave! I will keep everyone updated. i'm soaking that thing alot and the root ball is clay loam so it will hold the water. i'm going to cut some more fronds off to be safe. My pindo that I ripped out with my truck 1.5 years ago and drug the roots for 5 miles is solid, has a heathy spear, but hasnt moved an inch so I hope it starts growing!

[Jastin]

  On 6/27/2011 at 7:48 PM, Ken Johnson said:

So now that everyone has seen the "pull it with a truck' method we will have a lot more dead palms around. The good news is yours looks like it has a chance. It is real good to water all the way to the top and make sure the trunk is soaked too at this point. If leaves turn brown it is worse than the crown drooping but for sure the drooping is caused by a lack of water.

I hope it does have a chance Ken, i'm just worried about the crown. I had to work with what I had for tools and money...I didnt want to rip it out. The place it was in was so tight we couldnt get an angle on the underside and in the back I could only dig down a foot because the foundation was in the way. It needed a crane but there was no money in my pocket for that! So we did the best with what we had.

Thanks for the advice on the job.

[Jastin]

  On 6/27/2011 at 7:49 PM, MattyB said:

Wow! That thing is way huge! Great thread Jastin. Thanks for all the cool pics and funny commentary.

I do not like the look of that leaning crown. I think that the weight of the unsupported fronds kinked, and injured the growing point. If it was me I'd cut the entire center off of that palm, leaving only a few rings of outside, lower fronds to remain. This will take all of the weight off of the growing point but still leave active, green leaves to do photosynthesis. I realize that it's unorthodox and others will probably recommend against it, but I would have no problem removing the middle cluster of 8 or so fronds.

Anyone think that crazy idea might help?

I think that is a good idea Matt but I dont know if i have the guts to do it...maybe i can cut some of the crown leaves off? when we were getting it off the trailer at my house the crown might have bent or had to much weight from the 4X4 that was holding it up. I think you have something up your sleeve to be getting your results ( speed of growth ) at your house. What do you fertilize with?

[MattyB]

I fertilize twice a year with the cheapest granular fertilizer w/ micros that I can find. For palms I use Vigoro Palm Food that I get at Home Depot.

I poke a deep hole with a digging bar right next to each emitter and put one fist full down each hole. It's labor intensive but that seems to apply water and fertilizer deep to the roots.

[Jastin]

Interesting. i'll try that next time. i'm going to mix gypsum in there as well to hopefully help with the drainage issue. i've used palms plus and worm tea but i think the heavy soil and no drainage is the real problem

[MattyB]

Palm plus is a better fertilizer because it's slow release, but I've never had any issues using regular fast release Vigoro stuff. Like we were discussing earlier today, drainage makes a big difference in a plants happiness. I would suggest the ole' mound planting technique if you're having drainage issues.

[Jastin]

I started planting high a few palms ago but i'm not happy with the other ones I have in the ground already. I get exctied about putting one in the ground and I don't take the time to do it right most of the time. Come on little guys! Is it too much to ask for some results? Grow!

[MattyB]

I think God has used gardening to teach me patience. We still have a lot of work to do though.