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An interesting conversation this afternoon from knocking on a door asking about some bellmoreana seeds in garden I spotted quite some time ago. It turns out the palms are originally from lord Howe being brought back in the early 80s from a very knowledgeable person in the seed industry knowing what he was bringing back. Further into the conversation the gentleman knew a few blokes in the local area whom I knew both of us talking about Howea plants in the early days when they hit the market in a big way back then. I just grabbed a few spikes about 100 bell seeds I was offered the rest of the seeds later on when ready. The palm in question was one prime specimen of a bell kentia solid looking with a great curve in the leaf and so it should being originally from lord Howe. I might have to make an enquiry next time I visit about some Hedyscepe seeds seeing as the contacts are still fresh with lord Howe you just never know. In return I offered a couple of Joey palms along with an anthurium veitchi in appreciation of the seeds.

A&M corpus tonight;)

I know Joe at NTCHP was testing various Sabals and realized some of what he was selling as causiarum was domingensis, based on varying leaf hardiness. There is a lot of misidentification. Here is another post where Jlevert mentions the causiarum in Augusta, Georgia as surviving 11° and 14°F and possibly colder since then. There are also causiarum at the “Bamboo farm” in Savannah, as well as specimen in Atlanta that have survived single digits.

Flour bluff corpus today ! Lots of coconuts if you actually look hard enough lol .coco queen 🤩🫣😆

I remember reading that the SABG Sabal may have been dominguensis. I took photos from before and after the freeze. It’s a shame they took it out rather than giving it a chance., but perhaps it really succumbed afterwards and became too much of a risk. Here is the Botanical Garden specimen. First photo from Jan 2021 the Sabal causiarum is the the palm just left of center. The second photo is from March 2021. The two sabal palms behind were also eventually removed due to constant freeze damage. Were they Mexicana!? The third photo is from May 2022.

Wasn't there some discussion a while back about the SABG specimen being S. domingensis and not S. causiarum? Here's an unknown robust Caribbean (?) type Sabal in Brownsville, TX with cold burn after 23-24F to make it even more confusing. This is next to green/partially green queens and alive royals....so quite tender for a thick trunk Sabal. Sabal domingensis??

2024 Growing Season Update Just thought I'd post an update at the end of the 2024 growing season here in Accomack, VA on DelMarVa. It looks like the Jubaea chilensis has grown a couple feet since last summer and is now about 6 feet tall. I got tired of bringing 4 large Cycas pectinata in for the winter, so planted them out in the garden the other year. One sprang back at the end of last summer but it was tiny. This year I just discovered another one that has come back -- but just 2 leaves. C. pectinata's natural range is E. Asia - China, northeast India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam. Here in Accomack it would survive outside in a pot until December (so down to 30's°F) when it's leaves would get browned, then I'd bring it in until spring when I'd set back outside. To survive temps in the 20's°F, I think the caudex must be well buried. The ones I had were grapefruit to cantaloupe size and the small caudexes were the ones which got buried deeper and sprang back to life. The Sabal minor var. Louisiana is still growing fine as are the needle palm (Rhapidophyllum hystrix) and Sabal minor 'McCurtain Co.' ecotype. I decided to try some Tillandsia usneoides which I hung out this spring on a saucer magnolia, some crepe myrtles and bald cypressees. It bloomed and now has lots of seed pods. It's been a very dry summer and fall. We are still in a drought with a deficit of several inches of rainfall. The spanish moss looks like it's doing just fine. Will see how it survives the winter. Another plant that likes more water than we get here in Accomack is the Coastal Redwood. In the picture, you can see a large bald cypress in the background with a coastal redwood (Sequoia sempervirens) in the foreground. Both trees are the same age. The average annual rainfall in Accomack Co. VA is 44 inches, but in the native range, the redwood receive 100 inches of rainfall annually. I have two planted, and the one in the photo planted in line with the bald cypresses is near a seasonally flooded low area. It's grown larger than the other planted out in the open in a drier, sunny location. Still both grow just fine, water seeming to be the limited factor in their growth rate here. They are less stressed by drought than either Leyland Cypress or Arborvitaea (Thuja).

It was nice to meet you at the PSSC meeting at the ouer garden in Encinitas. Palm is still growing well. Gotten bigger over the last couple of years here . Here's A couple updated picks from today. And by the way that sumawongii looks great

Here's mine - not exactly $999 size but looking good for a $15 seedling from a couple of years ago. I got it directly from the hybridizer (is that a word?) Erik Brown as a small 2-strap-leaf. It's begging to go in the ground so it will this February.

Thank you very much for the reply. I have got to go to Southern South America and see the flora, mountains, plains and of course the people. So many plants from South America do so well in North America especially along the west Coast, that I am certain others would do well also. Fourty years ago I planted two Jubaea in the ground on my property. I watched these Jubaea grow year by year through all their different stages, from baby, child, teenager and now finally adults. It took about 30 years for a trunk to begin and about 10 years of flowering before the first fruit began to set. This year for the first time fruit showed up, I don't know why it took so long but my neighbor's Butia started flowering first time this year. So I wonder if the Jubaea got pollinated by the Butia.

More 2021 survivors this Everglades is a huge surprise! We took every seed haha

My wife has an ability to grow flowers she just simply adores them. So much so she has taken over the vegetable garden (who needs to eat when you have such great flowers) in a big way. So the palm landscaping is slowly becoming flower territory which I don’t mind. The wife is in love with soil and bio fertiliser juicing everything as she calls it.it’s wonderful to have someone who shares the love of gardening as much I do. It brings me great joy seeing the flowers and the garden created by someone special in my life.

A favourite little palm of many the scottiana. I purchased this one last summer winter was not a problem so iam confident it do well in the ground. Apparently it’s similar to dypsis confusa which I just put a hundred seeds in a few more years time I might be able to compare the two noting the difference between the two. Being a dypsis they grow well in my climate with many varieties from Madagascar in the garden.

Jungle vibes at Kemah.

@jwitt Here it is in Feb 2022.

I believe it seeded last year if I'm not mistaken. I remember when I went to check it out in March of 2022 and it was burnt to a crisp. I was kind of devastated to see it. But then it came back like a champ! It goes to show that they really are fire retardant as the tribe used to burn them in their native habitat. I truly believe it promoted it to put out seed. Would I suggest it? No Way, but this palm is a living example of what it is capable of and how intelligent the people were to figure out ways to survive!

Isn't pic 4 the San Mateo? And looks to be seeding. Another first, from seed to seed! Possibly from the earlier burning!

Reviewing more photos from the past there is this one I took December of 2015. The geo-location has this near the beginning of the south Texas trail. I don’t recall seeing this palm lately but will check next time I go! Maybe it still exists but the signage is gone.

Devilish Blondes avoiding death by tunneling furry menace.. ...and forming seedpods. ..and flowering in a pot. Think this container will be moved somewhere where these can cook a bit more next year so they're not as stretched out ..If i don't decide to transplant to a spot out front.

I think there's some reports out of Florida of S. domingensis being more tender as well. IIRC, S. causiarum is actually the anomaly out of all of the Caribbean Sabal spp., being significantly more cold hardy.

I think you're right, there was some discussion about that. I don't know how to distinguish the two except by the seeds. The one at the SABG had small seeds like palmetto and seeds I obtained as domingensis were large like mexicana so based on that I would say causiarum. If this one you posted took that much damage from 24°F and the one Daniel posted from John Fairey is labeled correctly I'd think it's domingensis. I didn't think there was that much difference in cold hardiness between causiarum and domingensis but perhaps there is. @MarcusH, I don't know of any others in SA. It's possible that @iamjv has one (I know he's got a gorgeous silver uresana)

From what I heard, the Sabal causiarum at the botanical garden was removed because it wasn't recovering fast enough from the February freeze. It was still alive a year after but didn't look good in a public garden so they cut it down. If it had been watered more I think it would have fully recovered.

Try Prestoea acuminata. Amazing palm that really should be grown more in cool areas.

About as Texas as you can get. Whataburger and Palms.

I wouldn't really call it a garden, but I'm semi-experimenting with palm trees in El Centro, CA, in the Sonoran desert. I don't have any land, so am planting them at one of my works and unfortunately it is under construction and irrigation is frequently cut off when I'm out of town and I return to many dead palms. It's very frustrating. Anyways, I've had fun experimenting with palms, and have unfortunately had many untimely deaths due to irrigation being cut off or getting run over by construction machinery. I'd like to highlight the African oil palm, however, and ask if anyone else has tried them in California or Arizona. This palm is 2 years old from seed. It has spent one summer and one winter in a pot and one summer and one winter in the ground and has been tolerating FULL SUN from noon to sunset on a west facing wall without any issue! I am so shocked. It is frequently 120 F here.

Probably a safe bet. They should last a long time in San Antonio.

I don’t think the buried pool will be an issue. The palm roots will grow all around and through the buried debris. Another thing to consider is you may be able to burn a fire in this pit during the coldest of nights, creating warm area to possibly deflect some frost. You might want to try zone pushing around this fire pit area, the surrounding palms may have the best chance of cold survival there. I have a similar fire pit in my yard and have some cold sensitive specimens placed about 10’ - 15’ from the pit. I always to try burn some large logs in the pit throughout the night on the coldest spells. Not close enough to burn the palms, but close enough to have a radiational heating effect. Worth a shot if done safely.

So from my understanding it is safe to say S. Causiarum is cold hardy at around 10 to 12f with some exceptions where some species are more cold hardier handling temperatures in the upper single digits . Am I right?

Those below are today pictures of my two plants. Have not grown up dramatically or at all in the last 8 years! But they have started suckering. That said, I have both male and female plant, which bear distinctive different traits, not aure whether there is a matter of sexual differentiation or just natural variation Namely the male suckers profusely, the female barely, the male has inconspicuous to none stem spines, the female has this feature pronounced like Rhapidophyllum, the male has less pronounced white scales on the leaf backside, female leaves have a thick white layer, which initially is somewhat bronze in color and whitens up later, as the leaf ages. Male in foreground, female in the background Female stem fibers Male stem fibers Female suckering habit Male suckering habit And a naturally sprouted seedling, perhaps the way it pops up from below the stones is instructive about needs of the sp in cultivation!

I wish we could grow them here. Unfortunately the winters are too wet and cold spells too prolonged. Only ones I ever saw were at a hotel down in Tifton (GA - long gone now), and at Joe LeVert's high school garden. I don't know what he has out there these days.

Brahea decumbens is a good grower and will stay blue in wet humid conditions. It starts off green and a bit slow but in 10 years you’ll have a beautiful blue specimen in your yard. I planted mine out 5yrs ago as a 1gal. It has never given me any issues and has seen cold wet winters into the teens. I’m also trying Brahea moorei. It has taken a couple years to get established in ground but I’m hopeful next year they will push a nice set of leaves.

Time to catch up.. August heat.. 08 / 03: Obscure and into the Blue.. 08 / 04: Castles in the Sky 08 / 06: Odd Skies Omen? 08 / 07: Picasso's Early August Skies... A tough closer in.. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

My C. Macrocarpa , here in Southern California , is starting to open its third frond this year. Planted in full sun , it burns only a little now . It has almost 6’ of smooth trunk , over 20 years old. Jim’s garden , from the pictures I have seen here, is fabulous.Harry

A few plants around the garden: Veitchia arecina Veitchia joannis Rhopies... in FL? Chrysalidocarpus (Dypsis) decipiens ... in FL? Pritchardia munroi A Joey in NE FL? A Yellow Latan - wow Desert Areas Sunshine Trail Trachycarpus princeps Roystonea regia Seven Meter Bridge Why Queens? You know people ask...

You've found another Queen survivor. Those Bismarck palms look amazing.

Join the queue! Richard’s P acuminata is just about my favourite palm posted on PT. Need to find a way around the phyto requirements! Just to contribute to the thread - some good suggestions already Ceroxylon, G undata etc. There are heaps of Chamaedorea that would work if you can provide some shade. Parajubaea sp if you’ve got the space. Some of the highland Chrysalidocarpus should be ok too (baronii, onilahensis etc). Linospadix monostachyos, Laccospadix and Oraniopsis are underrated Aus natives that should love it there too.

I think they survived at a decent rate. The two at John Fairey Garden survived two nights of 6°F and 100 hours freezing in 2021, mid teens the two following winters, and drought in the summers in between. The other Caribbean species that were part of that group planting died either from the cold or combined drought/heat the last 3 years, but the two causiarum live on. I know of several others.

I planted a couple of 1g hookeris in full sun a couple of years ago, and they grow at a decent (for SF) pace, although they still sun burn pretty badly. The latest frond opened at the beginning of June and stayed burn free until the recent heat wave. The next spear was 1" then and almost 20" now. I do give them a lot of water. For other smaller palm ideas, Ravenea hildebrandtii has been easy in the shade for me and R. glauca similarly easy in full sun.

Paul, First off, it was a pleasure having you two to the garden! Perhaps try a Chambeyronia in a spot that receives some sun. Maybe adjacent to a south or west facing wall. The picture below is one of my young ones this past January opening a new leaf in the winter’s cool temperatures. Most of my twelve flamethrowers produce three new fronds per year. The slower ones, 1 and half to two. It’s worth a try.

A nice little batch of seeds. Customs is the only delay really in getting them fresh from rps 7 weeks wait for customs Australia that’s not good for a living thing losing viability from the day it’s harvested. There excuse was they had a backlog not a lot you can do except phone calls and emails. I finally got some dypsis confusa, masoala Madagascariensis, Areca Montana, and geonoma mooreana. The mooreana and the confusa had started to germinate it took that long in customs. All were sown in coco coir perlite bottom heating 30 degrees Celsius and using etoliation method. A few months time I will know what I have germinating I hope.

Another species to consider is Coccothrinax macroglossa “Azul” planted as a group. MB Palms in Orlando actually carried these at the open house earlier this spring. The downsides are these are relatively slow growers, and are pricey and only available in small sizes. Here’s a few pics from MB palms display garden, and from Palmpedia. First two pics are from MB plams, owner Mike said these were about 8-10 years old from 7gallons. Following pics from palmpedia showing the good silver color. I purchased two 3 gallon plants from the spring sale.

That’s what I’ll do. I ordered a 3’x6’ 50% shade cloth that will arrive tomorrow and this palm will go in the ground underneath it. Of course I shouldn’t need to leave it up for long, until next spring rolls around. Thanks everyone and especially @Darold Petty and @PlantMorePalms!!

When I travel through the tableland regions in the states of Paraná and Santa Catarina, where Butia eriospatha is native ( not so common), most of this regions also have in bigger quantities , wild "jerivá" (tableland varieties of Syagrus romanzoffiana) and frequently I see xButyagrus paranaensis, sometimes cultivated and some in semi wild conditions. All this are natural hybrids and not made by gardeners. They really are very atractive and some are really magnificent. When in cultivation they are probably selected about volunteers. I also remember the botanist Kelen Soares photographing hybrids of Butia lallemantii x Syagrus romazoffiana in the state Rio Grande do Sul.

Thanks for the information my one is close to 23 years old and still no flower. I guess I will have to wait a little bit longer for a flower.

Unfortunately the stations between Psari Forada and Kastellorizo are not comparable. The Psari Forada station is a passive Davis station while the Kastellorizo station is a fan aspirated one. The higher mean maxes you see in Psari Forada are probably due to the lack of mechanical aspiration. We believe that Kastellorizo would still beat Psari Forada if we had a passive Davis station over there as well. Also note that Crete is very susceptible to the Aegean Jet Stream winter events. What we call in Greece the ''prosinemos'' pattern. Its like the lake effect which causes occasionally violent snowfalls in Athens but temperatures rarely drop to 0C. This means that even areas of South Crete can and will see snowfall from time to time albeit with non freezing temperatures. Kastellorizo, coastal Kasos, South coastal Karpathos and the Port of Rhodes have never recorded snowfall in their entire meteorological history. Especially for the city of Rhodes that we have huge archival databases from the press we are certain that settled snow has not been recorded for the past at least 130 years. On the other hand even South Crete will see snowfall or even settled snow once a decade or once in 20 years on the coasts. Ierapetra for example next to Psari Forada has dropped various times close to 1C or close to 0C during snowfall events in South coastal Crete. The South Dodecanese is by far the most viable candidate for cocos in Greece. Temperatures over there have never dropped below 2C while a 0C and settled snow can happen in South Crete. Check the Lindos thread where we discuss this extensively.

I think I found a second coconut palm survivor of the Valentines Day Massacre of 2021 (otherwise known a Palmageddon). I recently moved from SPI across the bay to Port Isabel. Am now farther south (closer to the rocket launch pad) and on the mainland (Still Z10b according to Xenon's old map). Was exploring my new neighborhood and came across this. I am very happy to learn that my new neighborhood stayed warm enough to allow this guy to survive as I plan on planting a few more myself.

Got them as 5 gal from Joe, planted out 10 years ago!

Lynn's Legacy Final Hurrah Gossypium thurberi Gossypium davidsonii Ruellia nudiflora Ruellia californica / peninsularis Turk's Cap Kopsia arborea Coral Vine First " home grown " Devil's Claws ..Oak Flat collected P. parviflora in this case.. More to come.. It figures that as soon as i'd mentioned that the bigger " Devilish Blonde ( P. althaeifolia ) had started to bloom that something decided to take it out ..literally the next day.. ( Gopher, probably ) Luckily, her just as devilish blonde twin sister decided to fill the void ..err, appears it should soon. ..We'll see if the furry stalker roaming the yard leaves this blonde alone, lol. Portulaca suffructescens still alive, despite the un-ending heat beat down.. Noticing these respond better when temps stay below about 104, which makes sense for a mid- elevation species. We'll see if i can get these to flower / set seed before it gets cooler.. Pair of Sunflowers, ...of course.. Memorial Meadow sown... ...should lead to Plenty more to come, by the time a special birthday approaches around the holidays.. New bed in the works as well.. Figuring 3 Plumeria ..One where the shovel is, another in the corner behind the " Habitat Stump " ..and another near the " bone yard " ( ..Where the Peppers are currently.. ) ...Specific Canna ..and possibly a couple specific Hedychiums should work here, though we'll see how well the Gingers can tolerate the sun....

my comment on a miyawaki youtube video i recently watched... 1. growth depends on resources 2. plants don't all need the same mix of resources 3. plants don't all have access to the same resources 4. plants are able to trade resources thanks to fungi 5. the closer plants are, the easier it is for them to exchange resources so no, the accelerated growth of miyawaki forests isn't because the plants are competing for light, it's because the density of diversity facilitates resource exchange which is what actually facilitates faster growth. since miyawaki didn't know this he thought it was beneficial to limit the diversity to only natives. doing so is incredibly counterproductive. much faster growth could be achieved if diversity was unlimited. "Among men, on the contrary, the most dissimilar geniuses are of use to one another; the different produces of their respective talents, by the general disposition to truck, barter, and exchange, being brought, as it were, into a common stock, where every man may purchase whatever part of the produce of other men's talents he has occasion for." - Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations

CIDPs certainly enjoy the damp cool air of San Francisco despite their desert growth abilities however.