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After temperatures briefly dropped to -2°C / 28.4°F on the balcony and -6.3°C / 20.66°F in the community garden last night, everything still looks fine, even the young Phoenix dactylifera that I couldn't dig up. Okay, so far so good. We're one-third of the way through winter, so to speak... The castle walls hold firm, the enemy, frost, cold, and storm have been repelled 😁

You can send the Lytocaryum seeds to me. I appreciate them. There are zero of them for sale in WA too.

funny how palm people might be the only ones happy about global warming 😂

As you can see in your aerial photo, some of that tule fog would spill into the Bay Area through the Delta but thankfully where I am, it would mostly “burn off” in the afternoon leaving very hazy but sunny skies. The kind of chilly foggy weather in the Central Valley recently would have driven me berserk! So glad for you guys that it’s been blown out by Pacific storms. More rain on its way for several days starting Wednesday.

San Francisco has 10b zones but is a mild to chilly climate. The zone designation only applies to average minimum winter temperature. It has nothing to do with the amount of daily heat. No freezing temperatures but nowhere near the necessary heat needed to support the growth of a coconut palm. Southern CA has a few areas (Santa Ana, La Quinta, Coronata for example) where coconuts will grow but likely never fruit.

Climate zone is a human made concept that really only looks at average yearly minimum temperature. I’m apparently a 10a but we don’t really use them in Australia. Cocos won’t grow until about 1000km north of me in the subtropics where average temperatures can sustain their growth. It’s the same problem for So Cal. Outside of a few known examples, the average temperatures in winter are the limiting factor regardless of how often it gets down near freezing.

Another big looser: Syagrus kellyana. Gets spotting every year but this year's fog really did a bit to it. Should grow out of it i think. Howea belmoreana, foresteriana, chamaedorea and chambeyronia were all made for this Ficus dammaropsis seems happy in this also

I think when your zone limits choices, the names can seem superfluous. I started palms in zone 9a where perhaps less than 2-3% of all palms can grow. trade names seemed to be sufficient, but now in a solid 10a the numbers of palms I can grow have increased dramatically and things like trade names for sabals, livistonas, dypsis, kings, chambeyronias, copernicias/yareys, etc all have a frustrating lack of specificity in trade names and make researching care for them more difficult and error prone. How many have planted a palm in the wrong site and wasted money and more importantly time due to lack of information? You want to push a zone make sure you have the right sabal, and some like being very wet while others hate it. There are two that will kick it or be severely burned at 25-26F degrees in an advective event. When I want palm specific growing conditions for planning my garden I want the scientific names so I can determine water and fertilizer or cold protection needs. I dont buy palms from nurseries that dont even have the scientific names on the label because they often don't know what that palm is and I cant identify many palms at a young seedling stage that I buy. How many of us have bought a misidentified palm and were frustrated when we didn't get what we paid for? I have planted half a dozen misidentified palms that didn't grow or thrive as expected. Im not wasting my time with sellers that don't even know what they have, the expense of caring for a palm eventually exceeds the purchase price so I want to know how to care for them. My favorite palms have almost invariably come from sellers that know the palms so I can research them and care for them properly. I used to get frustrated by the names too, I don't like being forced to memorize anything I cant use, so I understand if you are in a cold zone or are not that interested in palms as a hobby. I lived away from my garden for 7 years and rarely posted as I was not taking care of them week to week. I also saw old friends disappear from this forum, sometimes by choice and sometimes not by their choice(RIP). I got tired of the redundancy and all the coconut palm posts but you can zoom right past the really basic or redundant posts if you are not interested, or don't have the time to help someone new. Personally, this forum has been a goldmine of information for my #1 hobby, and I want to give something back, as there were experienced people who did that for me. I was one of the ones that insisted on the cold hardy palms forum, if you are zone 8 or 9a that might be the best forum here for you as you will be able to find what you want faster with less effort. When you live in zone 10 or 11, its different and you cannot get a lot of information without reading about and asking about palms, and if you are serious the scientific names really matter. I have looked at several other sites, and found them lacking in at least one of several areas I wanted to explore. I am not looking to sell anything or for the off topics that often contain just gabbing or trolling. Palmtalk is a well moderated site that I can get away from all the $%^ out there in the world that is often represented by a small number of the population that is angry or frustrated with their lives. I am too old to let someone I don't know drag my day down and kill my qi. I can come here for information, or to help someone, who like myself at one time, needed it. Palmtalk may not be for everyone and that is ok, there are other sites that cater to various degrees of involvement and content people may desire. This one is more about the rich information and help available almost nowhere else in help for selecting and growing your palms. You can be starting at square one and get help, or more experienced and looking to branch out in your garden. I sometimes ask myself what would my garden look like if I had not joined palmtalk? It would probably be a pretty boring garden I might have never been bitten by the palm bug. I may have chosen the low maintenance approach everyone else around me has. Bkue you can grow this one very well in your zone. I never would have known it but for palmtalk when I had it planted it in 2011. peace

Some brave zone pushers in my somewhat marginal, warm 9b climate have, it seems, been awarded for their bravery, as their coconut palm appears to be putting on some real size (a street view image from several years ago vs. a picture I took today):

Brian, you can pm me with questions any time. I am older so I dont hang on line all the time but I do answer. I understand about the searching its more complicated these days it seems, I also have struggles there. Your soil may well be alkaline due to limestone rock. This you should know so you can make the best decisions. If it is limestone base in your area, all the cuban copernicias will do even better for you than mine as I have to add dolomite to make the pH slightly alkaline. Satakentia liukinesis( a must in our area) and chambeyronia oliviformis also prefer slightly alkaline pH and do better in those kind of soils. Many who I have learned from seem to not be on here much theses days. What I have learned from from them I share readily, that is what this site is about, IMO. Teddy bears "chrysalidocarpus leptocheilos" are gorgeous palms and do well in our climate. I still struggle with the name changes and spelling on the species that have name changes. It used to irritate me that they changed the names, but as a scientist I feel compelled to follow. I am not a botanist by any means but I do understand soil chemistry as a PhD chemist(dual undergrad degree with chemical engineering) with friends who did study transport of nutrients in soils(its complicated). If you are ever in my area you are welcome to see my garden. Its a small yard(about 12000sf(about 1300m2) with sandy soil so I am somewhat limited. some of my species are serenoa repens silver(really light blue) bismarckia copernicia: hospita, fallaense, magroglossa, baileyana and alba (blue) BxJ, (BxJ)xJ Roystonea Regia archontophoenix species(4) these are not fans of alkalainity to my knowledge and are pretty leaf tender @ 30F chambeyronia macrocarpa watermelon, hookeri, chambeyronia olvivformis , chambeyronia houilou livistona saribus, decora and chinensis dypsis madagascariensis, pembana, lutecens (not sure if they are now renamed to chrysalidocarpus) sabal causiarum, uresana phoenix rupicola dyctosperma album furfurcea, rubrum I can offer you what I know about growing these if you are interested I would suggest you visit palmpedia.com for descriptions, just paste the names in and you will get good information If you want to purchase palms, a trip down to miami area would be good to get some better deals at "Redlands nursery" and some you can order at small sizes online from them. Like I said, we can communicate through palmtalk personal messaging(best way) as my email is inundated these days with unwanted junk. THe engineering side of me hates spelling these latin names( I never took latin), and memorization of unconnected facts. Only my love of palms has motivated me to learn them as much as I have. best Tom

Brr that’s cold! I am cheering for you , I hope they stay good through winter. Harry

@JLM I saw: Tuesday morning - 36.5F with no frost Wednesday morning - 29.7F with mild to medium frost I format things the same way too, no confusion here! Officially the Sanford airport is showing 33F, continuing my unbeaten streak of being 3-5F colder than the closest airport...except that back on the November 12th freeze I hit 36.5F and the airport registered 36F. I think the 20-30mph winds kept my yards basically identical to the airport, since the airport didn't have the benefit of the "urban heat island." Last night was ~8mph winds, so I got a lot colder than the airport.

Winter flushes push so slowly. My seedling Encephalartos (horridus × woodii) × (horridus × woodii) started pushing a single leaf flush a few weeks ago which is still emerging. The leaflets on this newest leaf look more like it's mother than earlier leaves. Clearly, the cooler nights and days, less sunlight of this time of year are the driving forces. It is still at the stage where it pushes single leaf flushes multiple times through the year instead of storing up energy for a multiple leaf flush only once or twice during the year like it's mother.

Not if accompanied by less and more expensive water! With colder weather I could still grow several palms but none without or not affordable water.

In the ..maybe.. 20 min I spent taking some pictures of the landscaping at the rest stop we'd stopped at closest to 152, before heading over it, I was frozen. Honestly felt colder than most of the 37f evenings / mornings experienced while living in either KS or Ohio. Heck, lol can count many times one could find me removing snow from the parking spaces in front of the apartment building my mom lived in ( while in Ohio ) in shorts, a t shirt, and sandles.. Yeah, imagine even the otherwise " hardy to lower 40s / highest 30s" stuff might start suffering under those conditions. Bummer regarding the Astro. Sounds like it may have caught some sort of bacterial rot. Had that occur w/ a few things here I'd kept too wet ( even though they were in pure grit and looked perfectly dry ) and in all day shade this time of year a few times. Speaking of the Plumeria.. No clue what caused it but caught one of the potted specimens out front ( JJ Ken's White ) w/ rapidly advancing tip rot today. Totally fine about a week ago and we've been dry and warm all month ..so I can't pin the damage on any cold exposure.. Rest of the plants out there, inc the seedlings, = perfectly fine.. 🤷‍♂️ plants sometimes. ..and yes.. think a month(+) of days under those skies is more than enough for anyone. Honestly drove as fast as I could to get out of it.

I’ve been on here for like 26 plus years before the baby g name change and the questions keep coming. Only now, FWIW, I can answer intelligently.

Not a sunset, but a nice sunrise in Austin.

You are one of the ones that provided valuable information and inspiration for direction to me. I find less and less available without deep search and even then, the posts are decades or more old. Zone pushing, new plants, architecture, growth progression was what brought me here. It just feels lately like who can sound like they know the most or have the most rare. Not much for the common man.

This looks like it came really close to being one of those mayhem car insurance commercials....

You are lucky , Jim. The offshore winds here are no fun. We get a nice warm spell with them and most of the time they aren’t too bad. A few times a year they get very gusty and turbulent. Last year that same Palm survived 90mph gusts! I enjoy the drying out between rains , it gives the crowns a chance to dry out . This is important for damp sensitive species like Chrysalidiocarpus Decaryi. Every area has its ups and downs . Santa Paula , especially up on our hill , is a very Palm friendly environment …..until the bloody wind blows one over!! Oh well, Harry

Thank you, over the past decade the minimum tempatures here have been climbing, the lowest temp I have gotten this year was 33 degrees compared to 10 years ago where the mid 20’s was common. Global warming really doesn’t seem bad, much like how Lakeland Florida went from 9a to 10a in 20 years. Duval has already went from 9a to 9b in 10 years. I hope for the best!

Your 9b climate isn't the same as the Orlando area 9b. Unfortunately, Coconut palms are not long-term in the Orlando area despite a few long term survivors. And, there are some examples of Coconut palms that are "survivors" in the Orlando area. The ones that come to mind immediately are those at the corner of Orange Avenue and Kaley Street just South of Downtown Orlando. They have been growing there for some time now and seem perfectly at home. In fact, the last time I was by there, one of them seemed to have immature fruit on it. Those have grown well there due to a perfect set of circumstances. And, barring a 1989 type freeze, will most likely continue to do well there. But, in your location in Duval County, it is much more likely that Coconut palms will not survive long-term. But, I wish you lots of luck in your attempts. Back in 2000, I planted a Roystonea at my Orlando area home. I wrote into the local horticulture column asking his advice. He basically told me there was zero chance that my tree would survive. Well, here I am 25 years later with my Cuban Royal palm towering over my home. It is now about 40 feet tall and I now consider it long-term. I still get people who ask me what is that beautiful palm tree you have there. I believe that the urban heat island now reaches my Seminole County location. And, there must be something to this global warming phenomena. So, in my case, it was selective siting, selective genes (another story for another time) and pure luck that has allowed my tree to thrive. Perhaps you will also be successful with your choice of site, luck with the genes of the trees you have selected and the continuing global warming phenomena... Good luck to you and keep us informed as to your progress...

I guess that’s my luck. A 30 mph gust here would be pretty unusual. A 50 mph gust almost unheard of. My last C. urens is fruiting way down at reachable height now but still managing to push new but distorted fronds out its top. Will keep it as long as it’s green.

@Mazat A blessing indeed. The neighbors have small children and with the holidays , they have been outside playing and coming and going. Neither people or property were damaged . We gave thanks for that. Harry🙏

Yeah I remember growing up with lots of foggy days. Though being a kid, you don't really pay attention to weather much. I was just getting into plants in 07, and graduating high school but I do remember it being a cold year. We've been trending towards drier winters, which tend to be sunny and fog free, particularly in the southern end of the valley, and the Eastern side which is slightly elevated. Fog will tend to accumulate in the lower, western side (sunset zone 8), and spills into the delta. I don't mind the rain, even an occasional fog spell. I just hope we don't have another extended fog spell like that for a long time. Ambositrae seems like it would do great in your area!

The way I'm seeing it/ looking at it: we've had these past several years of great weather in the winter here in the valley. THIS currently is normal winter weather- what I remember it to be. I think my little quote with my avatar here says 'cold wet winters'. I wrote that back in 2008 or so. This IS much more/ longer of a fog spell than memory serves, and it's foggy again today after a beautiful day yesterday. Hopefully come January (super bowl time) we have sunny days again. I always seem to get much work done in the yard those (American) football weekends. We get lucky quite often each year and have pretty good weather those weekends if you don't mind 50s and low 60s with sun. I can tell how the game is going based on what part of the neighborhood is cheering. Bread and circuses. My 100+ ambositrae seedlings have been chilling outside on the driveway, unprotected, in their community tub this whole time and look just fine. They haven't grown any (of course) but they haven't taken any damage. Everything else is looking decent given the conditions, but I have a pretty conservative yard after experiencing the 07 freeze.

December 2025.

Yeah the guy at Moon Valley, when I was there the other day, said their most popular palm is the "Pineapple Palm". 🙄 Don't threaten me with a g̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶t̶i̶m̶e̶ Phoenix canarensis!

Brahea Latania Sabal Yapa Other latania Bismarkia

My Amherstia is beginning to flower, the chandelier flowers will begin to open soon. New magenta leaves hang limp initially before greening up.

Ive been on palmtalk since 2007. Posters have changed but it was always worldwide. There are less floridians as a percentage of posts perhaps but you are in 10a, you should be able to grow what I grow. Of the vast thousands of palms in the world perhaps 10-20% are good in zone 10a Florida. Scientific names prevent confusion, trade names are often confusing to me., in a world of thousands of palms the trade names are not specific enough to identify a palm. Many have no trade name as they are not common in general nurseries. I believe kinzyjr has a cold hardy list you should be able to choose from. WHen I look back many of the most experienced palm growers are not posting much these days. People get older and their garden mature so they are not searching for potential palm information so much. Get the list of 10a palms and do a search for the scientific names. Some palms are referred to as partial scientific names like for instance a search for bismarckia will turn up bismarckia nobillis or roystonea will turn up roystonea regia etc. WHen I started the names seemed difficult to memorize so go with a 10a list from kinzyjr(pm him)

I think you've gotta make your own connections...there are people posting here from all over the world and after a while you figure out who posts stuff relevant to your situation and you hook into that community. As for scientific names...have a look at this current thread to understand why most of us prefer them

I knew the cold front was coming. Last night I spent a few hours in the grow room, nice and toasty. Got kinda sweaty cleaning and planting and potting as one does, stepped outside and holy poop on a stick it was 35°. It's about that now and it's only 6:45pm.

That is very impressive growth. I knew they could grow pretty quickly, but that put on a lot height in just a few years.

Never seen A sabaea before, aside from the image search I just did. 👍

Dypsis rosea

Nooooo the Central Valley is fog central from November through January, give or take. It doesnt always happen, but it can happen during these months when conditions are right. It usually begins with one of the rainstorms off the Pacific which soaks the soil. High pressure systems often form over the area which block new storm systems from blowing the cold, moist air out. Being that the valley is surrounded by a 14000 foot ridge to the east (the sierra nevada), and the coastal mountains on the west, the air has nowhere to go and condenses at ground level. As the air warms at higher elevations, the cold air sinks and compounds these conditions. The longer the fog lingers, the more dense it becomes. It often stays with us a day or two before the next storm moves in and clears the skies. This fog spell lasted approximately a month, which is pretty long even for us.

Plants are confused and flushing with the unusal warm winter I’m having.

Made me green with envy that I could drive 30 mins uphill and find plenty of warmth and sunshine lol Yeah! That damp cold just penetrates any sweatshirt or jacket. Most plants can tolerate these conditions for a short while, but the longer these conditions persist, the more cell death you start seeing on the more tropical stuff. Even completely "hardy" stuff begins to show signs of cell death - i have several mushy spots on some agave leaves. Agave attenuata boutin blue is especially sensitive. Agave marmorata and Agave celsii as well. Both hardy enough (i mean 39F is hardly a threat to these!) but they just begin to suffer in prolonged cold and wet. I also lost a nice astrophytum asterias. The substrate was bone dry, but the plant just melted. Too cold and too wet for too long. I found it oozing one morning and the entire plant was one mushy mess inside. The plumerias are south facing, so now that the fog is broken up by sunny afternoons, they are getting the sunlight they need, and also drying up. The last time I had damage similar to this was in 2022 with the long, cool, wet spring we had. I did remove all of the leaves to increase airflow and allow sunlight to penetrate. I also sprayed liquid copper fungicide on the stems, and applied a soil drench of Garden Phos as a systemic to guard against root and stem rot. I had anticipated a wet winter, so I had given them a dose of systemic in October, and again in November. This is the third application of the systemic, so I'm hopeful that is enough to get them through. Fingers crossed for more sunshine! No more endless fog, please!

@richnorm we had our saws ready then the landscapers across the street came over and offered a killer deal to do it. They did it by starting at the base , as you and others suggested, and worked their way up . They were done in less than an hour ! Those big Husqvarna chain saws ate that palm so fast. Harry

Yeah, it has been cyclical depending on the players in the game. @aztropic mentioned the Orlando thread since it is geographically consistent with what @Bkue can expect. When @palmsOrl and his alias accounts stopped posting and @RedRabbit took off for Texas, there was less posting from Central Florida since they were the original posters of the Orlando and Tampa area threads: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/59360-zone-10-palms-in-the-orlando-area-mega-thread/ https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/61172-remarkable-palms-of-tampa-bay/ This friendly back-and-forth went on for a while and was one of the big drivers of interest for communities near the two cities, like Lakeland-Winter Haven, Deland, Daytona, etc. A bunch of the people who were interested in these threads have joined a WhatsApp chat that @Bkue or others are welcome to join (PM @EPaul) and typically come to CFPACS meetings and/or comment on the CFPACS Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/p/Central-Florida-Palm-Cycad-Society-100064719099155/ @Bill H2DB + @sonoranfans mentioned CFPACS and me, specifically, so it is important to understand the impact of threads like the above. There had not previously been a CFPACS meeting in Lakeland to my knowledge, but after the Remarkable Palms thread became popular, we had two meetings here in two years and have a booth at the Plantae-palooza sale at Hollis Gardens each year. Just going off what I see in CFPACS, we have a LOT of new members from the Jacksonville and St. Augustine areas. There's been a lot of interest in the coconuts and other tropicals around New Smyrna Beach. We had our four quarterly meetings this year, and attendance was through the roof. Our publications page is very helpful as well: https://cfpacs.com/org/palmateer/ Freeze events also tend to spark engagement. Back when PalmTalk became a thing, the forum was very active with posts from California, especially after the 2007 Freeze. When 2010 came, Florida became an area of focus as folks wanted palms that looked tropical, but could survive those types of events. Texas has gotten hit the last couple of years, so a lot of the activity in the Cold Hardy forums is from Texas. In that regard, I guess I'm good with little to no attention LOL. The posts from @happypalms have renewed a lot of interest from Australia and folks not accustomed to some of the stuff he is able to grow that we either can't or have a tough time with here in the SE USA. @Than and @Phoenikakias have a lot of content from Greece, and thankfully, @gyuseppe is back in the game. Overall, yes the forum has changed a bit with different players dominating the field, but that is normal. If there's specific content that you desire, consider creating a thread for it if none exists currently. Many of the users use Google searches like the one below to find something of interest: www.palmtalk.org: central florida palms In my own case, I keep a spreadsheet of direct links to content I found informative or interesting in the past so I can visit those links to refresh my memory.

I haven’t been here 5 years but I have seen plenty of helpful advice on growing of all palms , whether exotic or common. Scientific names are helpful to me as that is what I normally go by . Harry

Hey Jim, How's your experience with this one so far? I've been considering it, but if it's looking too much like it's struggling, I think I'd rather choose other palms to grow.

The Livistona decora on the waterfront property replaced queen palms, but these nitida(?) survived aside from one trunk.

Don’t know about habitat, but this one in Melb Botanic Gardens has always been very tightly upright. It’s had clear trunk and been free of canopy since I can remember.

@Maddox Gardening-youtube Keep a close eye on it. Those temperatures aren't usually fatal, but they can sometimes weaken the palm to the point where it will develop a crown infection. This happens a lot if the cold is early in the season with more cold spells ahead and there is rain right before a few of them. That said, the old saying in American football is "Don't spike the ball on the 1-yard line." In this case, we're at the 1-yard line on the other side of the field.

Fortunately it has recovered nicely

Once the Hedyscepe starts to trunk they speed up a fair bit.

Unusually progressive Spring Wx pattern over the last few weeks keeping subtropical high cloudiness stashed away in Mexico = minimal sunset opportunities thru the rest of April.. Still, ...A couple noteworthy mentions ...and not from wayyy down the road either 04 / 19: Stellar Rays... 04 / 30: Fiery lumps

Was looking at my largest Balansae today and noticed it was trying to produce seeds. I would assume they will not be viable but good to see it trying. Pretty sure it’s 2yrs from a tiny strap leaf. -dale