Leaderboard

It’s often hot and dry in my coastal valley location in the summer but Hedescepe do exceptionally well despite that. Not sure how AI would rate my area but, as long as the palm is in shade or partial sun and watered often it will be happy.

Hey all, this is a native beetle here in Southern California. As the name implies, they love figs and other fruits. But they’re pretty benign little guys, noticeable by their metallic green color and their loud buzzing as they fly. But they have really found something they like on this flowering P. hillibrandii. The bees seem to tolerate them as well. Curious to see how well they act as pollinators..

I've been back for a few weeks now, but I looked through my photos again while writing up newsletter articles for Hawaii Island Palm Society and IPS about the World Palm Symposium in Singapore and I want to send a shout out to all you Palm Talkers out there. My husband and I attended the Palm Propagation Workshop: From Seed to Seedling at the Pasir Panjang Nursery, part of the Centre for Urban Greenery and Ecology. Anton van der Schans, Principal Horticulturalist at Gardens by the Bay, talked about planting strategies for remote germination (when the leaf forms at the end of a long tube and the seedling establishes itself away from the seed) vs adjacent germination (when the leaf emerges from the seed). Anton was using Palm Talk posts to illustrate planting strategies for remote germinating species - there was a thread that had many photos showing seeds propped on pvc or bamboo posts, the umbilical cord leading to a pot with an emerging leaf. Anton also used a thread discussing the division of clumping palms - shown on the screen in the photo. We were just talking to Fred Stauffer from the Conservatory and Botanical Garden of the City of Geneva about his problems growing Hyphaene in a conservation nursery in Africa the previous day. He asked the group about the best way to get help from growers for these kind of field studies and conservation projects as some of these species are very difficult to grow. Several people immediately suggested the PalmTalk forum. I'd love to see more of that kind of interaction and talking about Palm Talk at this symposium and having it being used in a workshop is a big step toward promoting this kind of interaction. I was so glad I went to the symposium and got to see the impact of the IPS grant programs, Palm Talk, funding for Save the Species projects. The IPS helped fund the travel expenses for 14 attendees from developing nations which represent much of the palmy regions in the world. Thank you for making Palm Talk such an important resource for anyone trying to grow palms, create gardens, or establish conservation nurseries.

I have many in my garden and not all make the race. Happens with all palms. A group of palms all planted the same day you will have ones that out grow the others.

Did you say bio security laws, that’s a nasty word. I would post to you anyway! It’s such a shame you have such strict rules the same as a few other states do. I don’t see them stopping the bird flu as it fly’s across the border!

Chamaedorea radicalis, a nice Cham to have in the garden very tough and a lot good looks for little effort.

Dave I would place in the shade and only use organic fertiliser like fishmeal or seaweed until they re established

The recent purchase at the pacsoa annual plant show, has breezed through winter temperatures not a problem. Jumping the gun a bit a week early, but in my area winter looks like it’s finished, so I cant foresee any issues with the geonoma for the time being. Not too bad for a tropical grown palm for its first winter in the subtropics. Even the small seedlings lived, the 50mm tube one sat in water all winter. They are one beautiful palm that’s for sure! @tim_brissy_13 if you can get one try it, it would be interesting to see if it would live, although it would be somewhat slow, protected in the greenhouse it may stand a chance! For me it’s a zone push winner.

I think you'll be fine with almost all the archontophoenix maybe except purpurea. Our climates are similar and I have Purpurea, maxima, tuckeri, myolensis, Alexandra and cunninghamiana. all grow great except the parpurea which always looks a bit anemic and never colors up great for me. they do like lots of water. My one bit of advice no matter which one you pick would to buy one that has not started trunking yet. The trunks in pots are stunted and will be permanently deformed and you will have to cover up the ugly part of the trunk with air plants and orchids......not that im speaking form experience.... They are super fast so they will form a trunk in no time and it will look way nicer. I do like the idea of a big fat blue Bizzy too though if you're open to a fan palm.

I can relate, I killed my first big container palm, $600, by handling it by the trunk. It was too heavy for me to plant gently without a bobcat and it had sensitive roots. We live and learn, and I do understand that palms in california are a lot more expensive than here, I lived there for 7 years. 54" rain a year will make them cheaper to grow here to a good box size. Most of us on palmtalk started out wanting that immediate impact. It is very rarely worth it for the faster growing species. With your heat you should be able to grow things quickly given enough water and some fertilizer. Remember that those Alexandre will need a lot more water out in the open like that compared with a bismarckia or alfredii. Wind dries things out much faster and if the roots can't take up enough water, you get brown leaves generally oldest first. When you plant a palm from a container it has small roots that have a limit for how much water they can take up. I would wait to plant those alexandre till it doesnt hit 85F any more. Over the winter it has a chance to grow roots before the hot weather tests those roots for how much water they can supply. At some point, watering more doesn't solve the problem of a small root system. For Alexandre, make the soil pretty rich in organics and perlite with y our clay. The perlite hold water and will prevent soil compaction which is often a cause of poor drainage. Deeper drainage gives deeper roots and they may give a much healthier tree in the inland heat.

I will concur with others. My A. Alexandrae was planted out at a 10” size , in full sun. It stabilized much faster than the Cunninghamiana . Both species do well here but I have a bit more coastal influence . These heat waves will come and go and only the oldest fronds show any damage . It has been here over 25 years , seen triple digit temps many times , cold into the low 40’s , and seems to love it here. The swollen base gives it a bit of interest as it ages . The silver underside to the leaves and dark green uppers would give a nice look to that area. Look for sun grown examples to plant . Harry This was a few years ago.

I agree the alexanders are a lot better in florida sun than bangalows and they are ok with continually wet roots. The OP has a spot there that would not work for a bismarckia anyway, it doesn't drain and the Alfredii -which has the same soil drainage requirements as bismarckia- rotted the roots. Ive never seen an Alfredii die that fast, very few have died in 9b+. Alexanders are a lot less cold hardy(5-6 deegrees F?) than either bismarckia or BA, but they don't mind wet roots as they grow surface roots not the deep roots of the others. The alexanders may get burned when small, but he could always put a net over them for a year while they develop roots. Here is my alfredii triple 6-7 years ago back when I could still get a pic of the whole triple. These were 8+ years in the ground from a 1 gallon. They will; grow a bit faster and will get a bigger root system and canopy if you space them out little like this triple. For scale, the fence is 7'.

Cycas panzhihuaensis x Cycas taitungensis

Nice flush on C panz x C multifrondis pushing through a pollinated cone.

Alexander are the better of the two for lots of sun, bangalows tend to yellow a bit in full sun. I have seen bangalows in full sun but that is after they have broken through the canopy and that’s with all of there habitat surrounding them in the microclimate. If you’re up for Australian palms ptychosperma elegans triple planted, Normanbya Normanbyi, I won’t dare say the foxtail palm. Howea grow quite well inland away from the coast, although iam unfamiliar with your climate zone for them, but a Howea bellmooreana would look pretty neat there, again a triple planting of fosteriana would look good.

Another piece of the jigsaw puzzle goes into the big picture. No plans just of the top of the brain as I go with this project.

I’m actually completely with you and have had the same discussions at work and with members of my family. The main thing being lost is practicing how to get information ourselves. It’s through the act of research that knowledge sticks in your brain. AI promotes us to quickly get information and then just as quickly forget it. I was initially resistant to using Apple/Google Maps for the same reason; I learnt my way around by using the old book style maps (Melways for us Melbournians). Admittedly I’ve now caved mainly due to no alternative being available, but I’d say my sense of direction and knowledge of our streets is a bit better than your average 20 year old who has grown up using digital maps and just following where they’ve been told to go. All that being said, I use AI both at work and for personal use, even palm related stuff. The key is just realising its strengths and weaknesses and not just taking the output as gospel. Photo of Hedyscepe at the Melb Botanic Gardens in our 7.8 rated climate to keep us on track 🤣

It’s sulking from the planting out. A lot of newly planted palms sulk after being planted in the ground. It’s a wonderful life in a container all the water nutrients a nice cosy pot to grow in most likely in a nice microclimate as well, we come along and wack it in the ground and then the palm goes what’s going here I liked my nice comfy container. It will soon realise the freedom ahead and a better life in the ground. Dont replace that is for sure. Just look after as if was any other palm and in a year or so you won’t even notice the situation it was in after planting out. Time is a palms friend!

I have seen two from the same seed before,kerriodoxa elegans, but nothing like that at either end of the seed. Keep that on marked as special!

Plant a Bismarckia there, if you insist on archontophoenix, a nice triple planting of Alexander’s would look good! A nice baroni black petiole would seal the deal for me. And give the street a wow factor.

Hey Marcus! Yes I have absolutely no issue passing right by the Queen Palms when I see them at HD! 😂 I used to entertain the idea but I can save money, time, and heartache just watching other ones around town die. Of the three that were planted late last year in my neighborhood only 1 survived, the one right next to the wall of the house. In spite of all the rain earlier and all the heat this month it has only grown one stunted, floppy frond. By the time this coming winter’s cold snap arrives it’ll be toast. Especially if we get the usual ice or freezing rain. I recognize those sandals, they conveniently have a bottle opener on the bottom! Perfect sandals in my opinion! Ben, I look forward to seeing your stunning uresana grow, those an incredible! My three have been going very well and one of them has grown much faster than the other two. Now I’ll have to keep my eye out for the Ox Beetles. Disappointing to see them killing palms, especially Chester’s Lisa Palmetto. Anhwho, here are some photos from a walk last Thursday at the Oblate School of Theology. They have several more Sabal ursanas than I thought. I just love their blue coloration. Also seen again is the mystery Sabal…. yapa maybe?? What are these two palms? I thought Brahea, but they have spineless petioles: Mule, really not a fan: Some gorgeous Brahea armatas, looking as good as I've seen them here, especially with some flower stalks: The next grouping I really think are all Sabal uresana, some everyone is aware of, but I don’t remember seeing the smaller ones before: Mystery Sabal… I’ll call it Yapa! Surprising that there are only a few Washingtonia remaining, this is one.

Another corpus coconut for the thread to enjoy:)

That reminds me I gotta send you some chamaedorea adscendens seeds☝️a beautiful quad of chamaedoreas..

I remember someone at some point found this stand near me on Google maps. This is the Dying town of Hornsby Tennessee located in Hardeman County on the Border of McNairy County. It's very mysterious with mature sabal minor everywhere along the swampy part of the town. I'm willing to bet if there's this many Naturalized sabal minor in the town they most likely have spread down stream into the Hatchie River flood plain. I have no idea if these are the result of someone planting sabal minor a long time ago or if they have always been present in this location. There's a few scattered around that look ancient. Most of the houses in this town where these palms are growing look like they were built before utilities were an option, and they're so old that nature is finally just swallowing them.

Hoping ours someday looks like this, grown by you know who in our 8.8 suitability climate.

I was also excited to get myself a birthday present recently. I found a couple of silver Sabal uresana from Teddy's Nursery on eBay. They arrived healthy, and they already have great color: That little leaflet on the left is a dactylifera for color comparison.

I had the chance to visit Discovery Point at SeaWorld San Antonio today, and I snapped a few pics while there. Nice use of Sabals: Chamaerops: There are a few Phoenix dactylifera in the area. This one was a pup growing up from a stump: While this one appeared to be planted as a single (not a pup) There were even some really over-trimmed needles in the area: And some Butia: My 8 year old for scale: Sagos and counties: Lastly, it has been so hot and dry for the last month that even the squirrels at SeaWorld are feeling the heat. This one was laying flat on shady concrete under a fan:

Here is an Ai rating of Hedyscepe canterburyana

No need to fix drainage problem if you plant Archotophoenix in that spot. They LOVE wet feet. They will grow happily even in stagnant water. I know since some of the fifty Archontophoenix growing in my yard have submerged roots year round.

Hmm , not sure who has any Alexandrae. You might check with Green Thumb in Ventura , call first. Perhaps put a post on the sub forum of Palm Talk classifieds . I’m not sure if @DoomsDave would know of where they could be found , but he is pretty knowledgeable about who has what. It would be worth a drive to get one , especially from one of our private growers . Harry

Yep.. Big, ...but perfectly harmless ..and actually really good composters.. Who cares if they eat some fruit too. Because so many people freak out about them when seen locally in the Spring, Spadefoot Nursery in Tucson re posts a writeup they did about these guys to talk the fearful off their ledges. Turn up in the yard every so often this time of year up here as well. Know anyone w/ TX Sage in their gardens? ( Leucophyllum sps ) = not uncommon to find dozens / hundreds of Figeaters clamoring over the flowers when they bloom, ...here in AZ at least. Of the 12 sub species, not sure if CA and AZ share the same one or not. Difference between it and Japanese Beetle, ..which has only been observed a few times in CA ...so far at least.. As pointed out here👇, " May / June " bug = broad brush term for numerous native / some introduced / non -native ( ..to North America ) Beetle sps in several genus, many of which are common in CA. https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/94169-june-bugs-are-destroying-my-gutters/ FYI: Lined June Beetles ( Genus Polyphylla ) = the one that squeak when handled.. These dudes.. Great laugh when handed to folks w/ an unhealthy fear of bugs. Fear of bugs in general = Lyrics from Basket Case come to mind, Every time.

Looks like you lost that palm because you didn’t drip irrigate the root ball and it dried out. What happens to these large boxed up palm specimens is that they repel water wants the root ball is dry and the water just goes into the surrounding wet soil. I’ve lost plants that way here in Hilo where it rains a ton. Once the rootball dries out the only thing that I can bring it back is to actually put a drip directly onto the root ball so the water can slowly penetrate into the tree. Florida gets such sporadic rainfall that you really gotta watch out for that drying effect especially in those Sandy soils. I would second the recommendation to stick with Alexander Palms because the regular king palm is not suited for the tropics. I have a lot of Alfredo palms in the ground and they all look ratty. My biggest regret in that regards is to not have chosen the fenestralis species of Madagascar, coconut palms. That one looks so much better and grows so much better in the tropics. I think the Alfredii likes cooler Highland conditions.

I was particularly impressed by the size of the male cone on my Encephalartos munchii. It is the first time it coned and I don't recall seeing any munchii cones in person before. I had no perspective on what to expect until it began to stretch out and start dropping pollen. I decided to get out the tape measure just to see how tall it is. With the peduncle, the first cone is topping out at about 37" but the peduncle adds about 10" of that 37". Since my Encephalartos cerinus is also now yielding a little pollen and has likely achieved its full size, I measured it as well. This cone seems bigger than past, but now I will have a measurement as opposed to memory to gauge future cones on this species, or at least this plant. The cerinus is about 24" inclusive of the peduncle, which is about 4" tall.

What a beauty. Do you know where I can find good alexander kings in your area? Id rather drive down the 126 then the 405 lol

Mine has put on it's annual 2-3" of growth....

I crack Jubaea seed before sprouting. Sometimes there are two or occasionally three separate viable seeds in one shell. In picture below you can see some half sphere seeds sprouting. If you didn’t crack them you wouldn’t know you really have twins. See upper left.

Once I remove the Alfredii i'm gonna have the drainage issue fixed. I'm not going to make the same mistake twice. Unfortunately, I'm no longer willing to spend a $1,000+ on a palm tree. I can buy a 25 gallon king palm for $250 bucks in nearby San Fernando Valley. I know this may sound high for Floridians, but its reasonable in California. How cold hardy are these? I believe the lowest temp recorded in the last 20 years has been 28f, but the area has considerably warmed up in the last 10 years, it rarely falls below freezing. Its much more of a solid 10a climate that previous decades.

I sympathize with your plight. Milton damage here made me not want to be in my garden for a year. I kind of lost my hobby for that time. But the healing will happen in time. In a a couple years new growth will uplift your place.

Alex will take that fine. Where I am we get up to 43c / 109f for a few days at a time, keep the water up and mulch over the roots then you wouldn't have issues. Agreed, I've found atleast till the bangalows are trunking they just get burnt. I have two Ptychosperma elegans planted both do okay in the sun, cold winter winds here make them a bit straggly. Normanbya I only had very young ones and they got fried even in dappled shade. Kentia bit like the alex and bangalows, keep water up and they can take it but definitely do better once they trunk and emerge from shade also.

Nice work. I’ve got to say though I’ll never subject one of these beauties to what would be the torture of my climate. I’m actually not sure there’s a time of year here that they’d enjoy. Perhaps briefly from late March to early May. Even our summers would be a struggle I think. I’ll leave this one for the subtropics. Geonoma stricta (pycnostachys) didn’t even survive past early June. I suspect this one would be similar in requirements.

I'd choose A. alexandrae over cunninghamiana if Californian heat and UV is anything like where I am. Alexandrae handles it much better especially when young.

A few listings I have for some of my palms. The price reflects what it actually cost for rare and exotic palms now. It’s not cheap growing exotic palms nowadays with customs fees, germination rates, shipping, phytosanitary certificates, soil pots, water, electricity for pumps. Plus many other hidden fees. So what should a rare palm be priced at when you consider what it takes, after the real mathematician has had at go at some numbers. Is it how rare the seeds are, how hard to obtain and so on. If you import the seeds it’s a whole new number again that gets added to the cost of everything. So just one plant germinates from a hundred seeds that cost ex amount of dollars to buy and import. You’re not going to take a lose on that business venture. If you germinate a hundred out of a hundred then the cost of a palm can be a lot cheaper from the grower. Seed availability is another factor, hard to obtain seeds of endangered species changes the mathematical equation a lot. This puts a higher price on such palms. So it’s not the growers fault for the prices it’s the cost of the whole thing of growing rare and exotic palms. Some palms will take years in Australia before there is a local source of rare palms, and then they may not set seeds. And even then a not to open public supply, with seeds being so rare they would most certainly go to others in the palm community. That’s the cost of rare palms nowadays. It’s supply and demand like any business it cost to produce. The only real solution is to have a garden full of exotic palms to collect seeds. Mind you though they all look beautiful in my garden, so I know the look that can be created with rare and exotic palms. I would happily pay this amount for such beautiful palms to have in my garden if I wanted a tropical garden that’s for sure worth every penny!

Great thanks for the info Merlyn. The palms I have bought were already planted in pots. The next one, hopefully the last one I buy, lol I will check it over and maybe repot it if needed. Thanks for the links I will have a read. Appreciate the info.

What size are they? I am not close to you but I found some large ones lately that smelled very much like citrus but they are very large in size and very round in shape

It's a shame we're so far away, otherwise I would have bought the chamaedoreas, obviously you would have given me a little discount, jokes aside, people don't know what's behind a plant, finding good seeds and how much it costs everything else

Get yourself an Anthurium pendulifolium. Aroid gods definitely seem to smile upon those in my experience. And they look fantastic.

Thank you for the responses and suggestions, really appreciate it and look forward to a great palm! Appreciate the buy pointers as well and I will try to make it to the next Central Florida Palm Society meeting, thanks! Given the differences of light/humidity in coming from a nursery - indoors with not as bright as it may be used to plus the humidity changes, I am leaning towards not repotting and letting it adjust before I repot in Spring/Summer. From what I have been reading, they do not like root disturbance much so that compounded my idea but correct me if wrong. I'm sure it will be in a decent soil it has been growing in and hopefully can continue as-is while I learn how to best do that and routine care. I aim to keep humidity a little higher indoors using a spray or a humidifier as some suggested. I've had my other houseplants vacation outdoors at times for a bit of shower or repotting, flushing the salts out. After one brought in an unwanted hitchhiker and multiplied quickly indoors, the quarantine and treatment process was not pleasant for me and the other plants as well. I tend not to do that much anymore or with care in my neck of the woods and with gardens around carrying lots of insect/plant diversity - good and bad.

Another one

One of the contenders for slowest seedling is Chrysalidocarpus titan. Long known only by informal names like Dypsis sp bejouf(a), folks in Hawaii fell in love with this species largely because of the grove of two dozen trees planted at Bo Lundkvist’s Malama garden. Those trees are now huge and producing baskets of seeds. The only demerit I’d give it is for the exceptionally heavy fallen fronds. They must weigh around 40 pounds (20 kg), maybe more. You can only have grass under these. Any companion understory planting would be crushed. I started mine from seeds. Big mistake. Pay whatever a 10-gallon plant costs. Germination took 18 months. After they went in the ground, glacial growth rate the first five years. Finally, they got serious about growing. After ten years in the ground, still no trunk, but they open a perfectly respectably 3-4 new fronds a year. After seeing mature specimens in so many Hawaii gardens, I have very high hopes for these. Construction site 2016 2017 babies went in the ground and promptly burned. Today 1. titan 2. lastelliana 3. carlsmithii 4. cabadae. 5. Clinostigma samoense Another competitor for slowest ‘Dypsis’ goes to Chrysalidocarpys decipiens. Habitat photos on line suggest this palm grows in arid parts of Madagascar. Maybe the reason mine are growing so slowly is that they are in shade and typically get 140” of rain a year. SLOOOOW. After 13 years, they have only now started to trunk. Most individuals I’ve seen in local gardens have two trunks, but I have seen one example with six. Both of mine have twin trunks. 2014 Not obvious, but both trees have two trunks even at this stage. Today The same slow growth rate is seen in this mysterious palm that might be related to Chrysalidocarpus sp. blue decipiens. Who knows? I don’t think taxonomists have tackled this one. After a painfully slow childhood, this finally began to trunk last year. I really don’t see any resemblance to Chrysalidocarpus decipiens. This one has a single trunk. Leaflet arrangement not that similar. Different coloration. 2016 Today At the opposite end of the growth rate spectrum, this mystery palm went in the ground from a small one-gallon pot 13 years ago. Now it might be around 50-60 ft tall (15-18m) tall giving my Pigafetta some competition. This was obtained at a nursery liquidation sale with a very faint ‘Dypsis’ label written on the pot with white grease pencil. No species name was visible. It has a strong tristichous frond arrangement, but the crown has disappeared into the clouds, so that feature is not especially noticeable now. The base of the trunk is very swollen. Some Big Island growers seek out unusual ‘Dypsis’ variants or hybrids of unknown paternity. I suspect the explosive growth rate I’m getting might be due to hybrid vigor. Great if you are after instant canopy, but be prepared for telephone pole syndrome down the road. 2013 I have both Chrysalidocarpus saintelucei and Chrysalidocarpus basilongus in the garden. The white crownshafts are pretty consistent, except I’ve occasionally seen some red in saintelucei. These similar palms are easy to distinguish when growing near each other. C. basilongus is a bit more slender and has a very faint hint of blue. C. saintelucei has a more striking green trunk with white rings. Both produce abundant seeds that easily germinate, although saintelucei has a thoroughly discussed habit of breaking off its heavy infructescence before they mature. saintelucei 2013 today Crownshafts are usually mostly white, but occasionally I'm treated to a bit of color. basilongus Turning to clumpers, C. cabadae, C. lanceolata, and C. sp. Mayotte Island’ closely resemble each other after ten years or less in the ground. Maybe each will become more distinctive after they start blooming. C. lanceolata seems more distantly related judging by the slender base of trunks in contrast to the swollen bases of cabadae and Mayotte Island. cabadae Mayotte Island lanceolata Chrysalidocarpus baronii and C. psammophilus look about the same in my garden. Oddly, DNA sequence suggests they are not all that close. C. baronii is supposed to be closest to C. decipiens. I don't see it. Ignoring the taxonomy, each is an attractive, slender clumper, but no fireworks yet. Photos of baronii 'Black Stem' are very eye catching, but mine was only recently planted so can't say if it will live up to the hype. baronii psammophilus I only include Chrysalidocarpus lutenscens for completeness. The common ‘areca’ palm is vastly over planted in Hawaii, usually as a hedge to screen out unpleasant neighbors. There are so many more interesting clumping palms that could step in if only the public knew about them. I inherited two clumps from the previous owner. If only these were rare or a recent discovery, everyone would want it. And finally, the award for THE WORST Chrysalidocarpus in wet east Hawaii- drum roll: Chrysalidocarpus decaryi, the triangle palm. For some mysterious reason, this desert species is widely planted in east Hawaii. They look like crap for years until the crown inevitably snaps off leaving a dead trunk, which is a modest improvement. Why do people still plant this one? Photo from a neighbor's property. Hope this update gives you some ideas of what might be good additions for your garden depending on your climate. If you haven’t been following this thread, I’m at 700 ft growing in black volcanic cinder generously amended with compost. Rain varies a lot, but averages around 140” (3.5 m) annually. Fertilizer twice a year is slow release 22-7-14 with trace elements. Never gets hot or cold, 60-83 degrees F almost every day of the year.

Thanks for looking