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The last month of endless "Tule Fog" (radiation fog) in California's central valley has done some damage to marginal plants, despite temps not dropping below 40F except for two instances when we dropped to 39F. From November 21st, for more than 3 weeks, we did not see the sun, and temps did not exceed 50F. We were stuck in an endless cycle of lows in the low 40s, and highs in the high 40s, paired with 90% humidity. Everything wet, everything cold, no wind. Just stagnant, cold, wet air. 365+ consecutive hours of it. I think we broke a record this year for the most consecutive hours in the 40s Fahrenheit AND the longest fog event in recorded history for this area. While most of the state had clear skies and warm weather, we were under this 400-mile long stretch of cold fog. My plumerias are wrecked, I'm seeing dead tissue and rot at the tips. Most palms seem ok. Here are some winners and losers from that type of cold spell - frost free but cold and wet. Chrysalidocarpus mananjarensis - second winter. Seems to be ok with prolonged cold and wet. Chrysalidocarpus "Blue Decipiens" (which i understand is one of the "ugly Betafaka) has no issues with it either. Chrysalidocarpus ambositrae looking great as always Syagrus sancona - really thought this would be ok with extended cold and wet since they're grown extensively at high elevation in Colombia... Gaussia gomez-pompae seems ok with it. Tiny bit of spotting. Brahea pimo spotting pretty extensively The big loser, roystonea regia. Despite being well within this species' temp range, the prolonged "refrigerator-like" conditions really wrecked it. Sunnier and drier conditions are coming back so hopefully this pulls through. Might bring it indoors. Lastly, a shot from my friend's front yard just ABOVE the fog at around 1700 feet above sea level. 70s and sunny there, and just 3 miles downhill, 40s and visibility less than 30 feet. If anyone wants to read more about the phenomenon, here's a good link: https://weatherwest.com/archives/43605 Anyone else in the valley seeing similar damage?

Üdvözlet minden pálmafa-rajongó társamnak, Szeretném bemutatni mediterrán kertünket, amelyet 2008 óta építünk és szépítünk. Télen a pálmafákat lefedjük és fűtjük, kivéve a kint az utcán álló Trachycarpus fortunei-t. Gyula, Délkelet-Magyarország. Normális esetben USDA 7b zóna, de az elmúlt 8 évben 8b lett.

@richnorm we had our saws ready then the landscapers across the street came over and offered a killer deal to do it. They did it by starting at the base , as you and others suggested, and worked their way up . They were done in less than an hour ! Those big Husqvarna chain saws ate that palm so fast. Harry

Brahea Latania Sabal Yapa Other latania Bismarkia

There’s a Palm Talker who liked to carve Caryota wood like this cup with Conan the fierce Guardian of the Garden for scale.

I'd clean up the crown then start cutting sections from the base underside. Once you get close to that tree pull it through (might need a tow rope) and finish it off on the ground. You will need chain sharpening skills or a few spare blades as the wood can be really hard. Good luck!

Dypsis “Big Curly” lookin pretty good today. Getting some size to it. Going to be a bit of an annoyance for a few years due to its placement close to the walkway but I wanted it to be close so I could smack the fat crown and trunk when walking by. 👍🏻 -dale

Made me green with envy that I could drive 30 mins uphill and find plenty of warmth and sunshine lol Yeah! That damp cold just penetrates any sweatshirt or jacket. Most plants can tolerate these conditions for a short while, but the longer these conditions persist, the more cell death you start seeing on the more tropical stuff. Even completely "hardy" stuff begins to show signs of cell death - i have several mushy spots on some agave leaves. Agave attenuata boutin blue is especially sensitive. Agave marmorata and Agave celsii as well. Both hardy enough (i mean 39F is hardly a threat to these!) but they just begin to suffer in prolonged cold and wet. I also lost a nice astrophytum asterias. The substrate was bone dry, but the plant just melted. Too cold and too wet for too long. I found it oozing one morning and the entire plant was one mushy mess inside. The plumerias are south facing, so now that the fog is broken up by sunny afternoons, they are getting the sunlight they need, and also drying up. The last time I had damage similar to this was in 2022 with the long, cool, wet spring we had. I did remove all of the leaves to increase airflow and allow sunlight to penetrate. I also sprayed liquid copper fungicide on the stems, and applied a soil drench of Garden Phos as a systemic to guard against root and stem rot. I had anticipated a wet winter, so I had given them a dose of systemic in October, and again in November. This is the third application of the systemic, so I'm hopeful that is enough to get them through. Fingers crossed for more sunshine! No more endless fog, please!

Lucky it didn't cause any damage. I gave mine the chop before it became a problem. it was way taller than I thought and I fell it into the street and it landed all the way in my neighbors driveway across from me. It blocked the road but luckily I live on one cut de sac and it was a week day so I didn't block anyone coming or going. I was able to chop it up with an electric saws all with no problem. I did loose a section that rolled down the street and scared the sh*t out of me. also I learned that the sap will mess up your skin ( or at least my skin). as far as cutting it up goes it was rather easy and soft.

Again with this same Cheesmanii in my front yard. The purple hue seems to be a thing with this plant which is great!! It’s grown great and consistently pushes new leaves but it’s nowhere near the stature of my Baueri. This plant has a way smaller diameter trunk and smaller crown shaft than its cousin. I’m digging the curve it’s got. Looks to be straightening out. -dale

Well , Dave , after all the drama we went through I was happy to see it go. The chunks that the guys were throwing in the box trailer were super heavy . It was still blowing a gale up here . I paid them , shook their hands , and thanked them over and over. It is 9:35 pm and STILL blowing hard . I keep checking on everything. This is gonna take a while to get that visual out of my mind. I can’t even imagine what you went through when yours came down and turned your van into a taco. I can’t stress enough how dangerous these are when they get big. The ground was not muddy or anything , the roots just ripped out of the base of the palm , no stump left. The part that makes me feel bad is that @DoomsDave had warned me months ago , even sent pics of his that came down. I just thought it would be ok until it flowered because it was pushing out huge , dark green fronds ….no inflorescence at all . Healthy by all appearances. Harry

If you saved some of the wood from your fallen specimen you could try your hand!

I think Conan likes the color of that beautiful vessel. Harry

So glad to hear good karma came your way.

3 more of my mangos have sprouted. For real don't know where I'm gonna put all of them. Building another table and buying more lights feels inevitable.

I prefer the leaf form of this one but they are all interesting.

This one looks like its brahea armata. A similar but different palm. Super silver is a smaller, thinner over all and has no thorns what so ever.

Yea , that palm had been there for 28 years . I grew it from a seedling . I had been thinking about cutting it down , as @DoomsDave had shown me what happened when his came down. The thing is , it had just opened a new beautiful frond . I checked the whole tree out for spathes after it was down , nothing. The roots were compromised though . That was the tallest palm on that side of the house. I have one more smaller one over there and I will be cutting that one down as well. Caryota Urens are for open space planting where they can’t cause damage when they come down. Harry

Wow, I’ve had three C. urens grow to maturity, flower and fruit and never expected a problem with any of them falling! They have been removed. I still have one that has been fruiting a few years now and seems super stable. I never would have guessed that these were so unpredictable.

Pembana and friend sharing a blue day.

For sure. These go crazy when grounded. Or mine did anyway. Here’s both of mine in different parts of the yard. Both have flowered before also. I need to look into identifying sex of these. Haven’t bothered. one thing to note, they both split after flowering also so they are doing that multi head thing now. Not sure if this is normal. -dale

Now that is some freak weather there!

Yeah, it has been cyclical depending on the players in the game. @aztropic mentioned the Orlando thread since it is geographically consistent with what @Bkue can expect. When @palmsOrl and his alias accounts stopped posting and @RedRabbit took off for Texas, there was less posting from Central Florida since they were the original posters of the Orlando and Tampa area threads: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/59360-zone-10-palms-in-the-orlando-area-mega-thread/ https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/61172-remarkable-palms-of-tampa-bay/ This friendly back-and-forth went on for a while and was one of the big drivers of interest for communities near the two cities, like Lakeland-Winter Haven, Deland, Daytona, etc. A bunch of the people who were interested in these threads have joined a WhatsApp chat that @Bkue or others are welcome to join (PM @EPaul) and typically come to CFPACS meetings and/or comment on the CFPACS Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/p/Central-Florida-Palm-Cycad-Society-100064719099155/ @Bill H2DB + @sonoranfans mentioned CFPACS and me, specifically, so it is important to understand the impact of threads like the above. There had not previously been a CFPACS meeting in Lakeland to my knowledge, but after the Remarkable Palms thread became popular, we had two meetings here in two years and have a booth at the Plantae-palooza sale at Hollis Gardens each year. Just going off what I see in CFPACS, we have a LOT of new members from the Jacksonville and St. Augustine areas. There's been a lot of interest in the coconuts and other tropicals around New Smyrna Beach. We had our four quarterly meetings this year, and attendance was through the roof. Our publications page is very helpful as well: https://cfpacs.com/org/palmateer/ Freeze events also tend to spark engagement. Back when PalmTalk became a thing, the forum was very active with posts from California, especially after the 2007 Freeze. When 2010 came, Florida became an area of focus as folks wanted palms that looked tropical, but could survive those types of events. Texas has gotten hit the last couple of years, so a lot of the activity in the Cold Hardy forums is from Texas. In that regard, I guess I'm good with little to no attention LOL. The posts from @happypalms have renewed a lot of interest from Australia and folks not accustomed to some of the stuff he is able to grow that we either can't or have a tough time with here in the SE USA. @Than and @Phoenikakias have a lot of content from Greece, and thankfully, @gyuseppe is back in the game. Overall, yes the forum has changed a bit with different players dominating the field, but that is normal. If there's specific content that you desire, consider creating a thread for it if none exists currently. Many of the users use Google searches like the one below to find something of interest: www.palmtalk.org: central florida palms In my own case, I keep a spreadsheet of direct links to content I found informative or interesting in the past so I can visit those links to refresh my memory.

Wow lucky on that one Harry. I take it you are adept in chainsaw skills. Yes small pieces starting at the base would be best. It will eventually fall out of the tree as you go along cutting it up if you’re lucky. Wallichia disticha palms are the same but not as big I have one near my house that is dying slowly, but iam hoping it won’t be too big a job. Your neighbours house was lucky and your lucky now, you have a new place for a special palm🤣 Richard

I've been here off and on, close to 10 years. Joined sometime after the collapse of the Cloudforest Cafe. Nearly all of my activity is with the Hardy Palm forum, based on my knowledge and interests. There are countless times where I find nothing or little interest. That's to be expected at least from my perspective. This forum is named "DISSCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE" which indicates a planet wide invitation and as such, a tremendous variety of topics. Some areas have their own palm societies where locals can join and participate in meetings, events and garden tours specific to the region, networking along the way. @Bkue you may find that an avenue you could persue.

@Harry’s Palms Oh no! what a sad way to lose one of your palms. Sorry to hear (and see) this situation happen to you. Luckily it looks like no serious damage or harm came to any people or property though! As for cutting this up, yes this is a fairly easy situation to clean up, and there's a technique for it. Take your chainsaw and starting towards the base of the trunk, take off a few feet at a time working your way up to the top, and the tree will slowly get shorter and shorter and drop lower. When you make your cuts, you want to make a small cut on the top (don't go all the way through), and then cut all the way through the trunk from the underside, using the top of the chainsaw bar and chain. If you try to cut from the top, you will bind up and pinch your blade and your chainsaw will get stuck. Hopefully that made sense. I attached a video to show the technique. Good luck!

DON’T plant Caryota urens in suburban settings!

Nooooo the Central Valley is fog central from November through January, give or take. It doesnt always happen, but it can happen during these months when conditions are right. It usually begins with one of the rainstorms off the Pacific which soaks the soil. High pressure systems often form over the area which block new storm systems from blowing the cold, moist air out. Being that the valley is surrounded by a 14000 foot ridge to the east (the sierra nevada), and the coastal mountains on the west, the air has nowhere to go and condenses at ground level. As the air warms at higher elevations, the cold air sinks and compounds these conditions. The longer the fog lingers, the more dense it becomes. It often stays with us a day or two before the next storm moves in and clears the skies. This fog spell lasted approximately a month, which is pretty long even for us.

Hah! Yeah I do have issues with some plants every winter. We do get this type of fog event regularly in winter, but it's not usually for this long. Many times, it'll last a few days, and more often it'll burn off by noon and we get breaks. Plumerias don't usually have problems with it. This fog spell was pretty long, even for us. More recently, because of extended drought, we've gone the entire winter without fog. It's such a short lived phenomenon (in 3 months we'll be hitting close to 100F) but it defines winter here

I love the leaf texture on Obi Island, my tallest (also has the biggest leaf split) is finally rising above the ginger. I prefer the fuller leaf.

Post your question on the FB cycad forum. This has been discussed throughly. You’ll gain a wealth of information so you can make an informed decision on what you might have. You can also look for post by Sim Lav on the topic, he is somewhat of an expert on Cycas debaoensis. I have several “different” C debaoensis plants in my garden. All sellers said for certain they were the real deal. Unfortunately almost all are hybrids. A couple are nice looking! If your plant doesn’t resemble the plant in the picture I’m posting, it’s likley not debaoensis. Keep in mind there are some nice hybrids that favor the true parent plant. However with a close eye you should be able to note the difference. With that being said unless you know the locality of the parent plants it’ll be a nothing more than a guessing game. Most in the “know” are aware of the sellers that continue to sell questionable seed. Everything I have learned over the last few years indicates Deboaensis is more or less unknown in collections. I personally know die hard collectors still looking for it. This is a seedling leaf.

Living the dream!

The best bit about pots is you can garden anywhere you want too, so why not spruce up the deck! Chuck a few joeys in and a licuala along with a Crysophilla and a rhapis and you have an instant garden!

A bit of the personal collection potted up on a nice summer afternoon, so a few more for the garden! sommiera affinisRaphia farinafera pholidiocarpus macrocarpus dypsis lanceolata Arenga porphyrocarpusiguanura sanderianumZamia standelyi

I stayed with a family for two months in Hungary, such a lovely country and the people are the most loving and caring people I’ve ever met. I will never forget the little village of vereyshaghaz. You’re climate is very cold in winter you have done very well in your garden a true gardener lives in you!

My friend Phil whos cycad he gave me that is 40 years old, and a rather large ferox!

This view

Snagged a couple of free Sagos sitting by the curb tonight. Potted them up once I got home.

Definitely some of the wildest weather …over pretty short distances… someone can experience anywhere in the US .. if not further out in scope. Grew up knowing this pattern pretty well and experienced it first hand again while out there at the start of the month .. and was still pretty surprised by just how localized and extreme the effect is.. Wild is thinking about how hot it can get in these same areas come July and Aug. .. about as hot as we can get here at times just with a touch more humidity than we have - outside of raised humidity on stormy monsoon days. For perspective: Normally cool -ish ( this time of year ) 60s in San Jose, once any patchy morning marine layer / spill over from the valley cleared off while there felt fairly warm, compared to darn near freezing at 39\40 -something degs. In dreary, damp dense fog, in a hoodie / beanie that did nothing to block that type of chill while passing thru the central valley on the way to/ back from San Jose. Whole time i was driving “ in the fog “ out there, was thinking to myself “ this prolonged, day after day, cool / clammy, damp, and cloudy pattern cant be good for x y and z tropical - ish stuff in people’s gardens“. @Josue Diaz if you can, …and any damage you're seeing is currently confined to just the tips of effected specimens, get the plumeria under cover / covered, and get out the sulfur dust. hopefully any damage isn’ t serious / progresses to that stage before the wx pattern heads in a better direction for them.

If you get high winds remove your last urens standing. My sincere recommendation.

My Amherstia is beginning to flower, the chandelier flowers will begin to open soon. New magenta leaves hang limp initially before greening up.

I am keeping an eye on my C. Obtusa . They are not as prone to falling as far as I know . Mine is short compared to the C. Urens that was there. I will give it a trim as there are some huge fronds that can catch wind and possibly break and hit something. I know the basic train of thought is to not trim before the fronds are brown but here , I trim the heck out of anything tall to reduce the risk of injury or property damage .The Santa Ana winds this time of year can easily reach hurricane force . The less wind age ( mass ) the better. Harry

Interesting and very welcome news that you found it soft as I have a few on borrowed time and have been told that the wood is really hard.

very nice and well manicured. what are your temp extremes?

Sir, as this forum's most prominent dumbass, I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on this point. I mean, on one hand there's a few threads about how to get new blood into the hobby and bring younger people in - but expecting everyone to pick up on Latin and biological names isn't really gonna do that. If someone says spindle palm, cat palm, or bottle palm, we all know what they're talking about. I mean, as long as we can understand each other is it really that important? I mean sure, we can Google it and copy and paste the scientific names pretty easily, sure, but as long as we all understand does it matter? Like, I can say hamburger or I can say grilled ground chuck portion in patty from from Bos Taurus (and yes, I googled the scientific name for a cow). I'm not trying to start an argument by any means here, I'm just saying that everyone isn't as educated and knowledgeable as most of y'all and that's okay. I've got stuff I don't even know it's common name and I've got stuff I'm not even gonna try to spell it's Latin name. If this hobby is gonna experience a revival, we're gonna have to accept people that buy plants at Home Depot. And don't get me wrong, I've learned tons of stuff from my 5ish or so years on here, but (here's where I'm gonna rustle some jimmies) if we really want a revival to grow this hobby, it's gonna have to branch out to become more than an exclusive travel club of people well versed in botany. It's not much different than cars as a hobby. I can tell people my old truck was lowered about 5" in the front and 7" in the back, or I can say that yeah, up front I flipped the ball joints and used Eibach coil springs and modified 69 Camaro shocks and in the rear I used a set of dearched 4x4 leaf springs with the middle spring pulled and the ends chopped off of the overload springs and bolted on some 18x7 Japanese Rays Payton Place Knight Barons on 225/40/18 tires. There's levels to this and it's ok to be a rookie. We need to embrace them. As long as someone doesn't say like fluffy green thing or whatever, it's cool. The 4x4 springs are shorter but the trucks sit higher because the shackles and hangers are mounted lower on the frame.

Look at how hairy this guy's arm is. Anyway I think I'm gonna have to end up putting some of these bananas on the floor pretty soon. I think they're pretty happy in here.

A bit of perspective from over a decades worth of observation regarding this…. Reflecting on it, while happy not to be there, i can say ..without a doubt, that in Florida, there is no shortage of knowledge to be gained in how to …or what.. someone can grow anywhere out there. aside from all the knowledgable folks id cross paths with .. who knew their stuff, palm — wise, …some connected to palmtalk/ others gaining their palmy knowledge on their own, absolutely no shortage of public parks and bot. gardens to access full of a wide diversity of species to look at and research and play with in ones own yard - if they chose to. PLENTY of nurseries growing all sorts of stuff to purchase from too. Yes, in recent years, some growers have retired / nurseries closed .. thus making stuff that might have been easier to find in 2015 slightly harder to track down but, most of it can still be found .. if determined enough / make an effort to cross paths with the right folks. As is the case here …or in California, only limiting factor in accessing anything someone might want to grow is how far one is willing to travel to access what they might be interested in. If i couldn't find it locally. Two or 3 hour drive to the Miami / Homestead area from Clearwater and Bradenton were well worth the adventures / hours on the road ..when i couldn't find something interesting at which ever local plant sale event i would attend each year i lived in each area. Plethora of un-ending plant sale events …big and / backyard sized = …Another big plus for Florida. Miss those drives to Homestead myself. If someone chooses not to capitalize on all these in - your - face / easily accessible resources / sources for interesting things to plant, that is their own fault, not anyone elses.. Pretty silly to grovel about how hard it might be to find stuff if someone chooses not to look around. Not to parrot others thoughts on this but, as mentioned, times change / people ..and their gardens age. Collector’s lists are filled and the collector might move on to new things… …or maybe they move somewhere else entirely. new place, …in a completely new area = totally different palate of stuff to play with. As far as the “ regionally -focused “ aspect, that has always waxed and waned here… Can remember when Hawaii was the big focus on the board. Then both Fl. and CA. battled for the top spot in the spotlight for awhile. Now, other areas, with far limited options than the 3 places above, …here in the states at least, are rising to the occasion and making their mark in their specific areas ..and the scope of knowledge of the board / forum itself. Rest of the world? Is doing the same thing. Just another day, really… Regarding the use of scientific names?, imo, choosing to ignore using them / don't want to accept when they're changed? = just a gardener / can’t call yourself a knowledgable plant / nature loving person if you don't use them / learn them. Some homework perhaps, but, it isn’t a hard thing to learn either …i mean, we use many botanical names already ( Eucalyptus, for example ) some are fun to say too, esp. when you finally stop butchering them, lol. Best plant folks butcher plenty btw along the way.. …Is a “ code of conduct rule “ a couple of well known botanist / researchers, a biologist i helped conduct a survey with when i was 16, and my high school biology teacher taught me decades ago ..and what i live by.. Don't give a s!!! about any eye rollers who don't know their names / choose to remain ignorant of why they matter, esp. any that participate on any science - focused site / forum. How to grow Plants, …of any kind, = Science 👍

I haven’t been here 5 years but I have seen plenty of helpful advice on growing of all palms , whether exotic or common. Scientific names are helpful to me as that is what I normally go by . Harry

Another Arenga Engleri!a Guihaya Argygata ( not sure of spelling) this is most definitely the slowest growing palm in my collection! Painfully slow. Harry