Plumeria's acquired from here and there

[Randy]

I've purchased a few plumeria over the last few years around Phoenix. Lowes by my house every once and a great while will have small 6" potted cuttings (marked 6" tropical foliage $6.99) and I stumbled into a nursery that had literally a pile of larger dormant plumeria in a big heap in the back area of their property. I notices that a good many of them had trunks and branches that seemed to curl and most were all tangled up. I picked one out that had the most pranches and looked the healthiest, and bought it for $29.00.

Now I'm trying to figure out what I've got so I can better understand where to put them and how to care for them.

The larger one has a much thinner trunk and branch system. It's leaves always seem to be a bit more pale looking than the other plumeria I see. It's a wonder it's alive though based on how I found it! Last season it was very pale and was a little skimpy on the growth and leaf quantity, but I'll have to say that this season it's much better. I have it under the patio facing east for about 2 hours of morning sun. The others are in filtered light until mid day, then shade in the afternoon.

Does anyone have a hint or two as to what I have?

The other two are much smaller but seem to have a much heartier and thicker stock.

Rubra,  I think...

[Randy]

Second season cutting just transplanted, no clue what it is...

[Randy]

And the newest addition (6" tropical foliage for $6.99)...

[tikitiki]

With out a doubt rubra, but 99% of the plumarias out there are rubra the other1% is obtusa. The problem or blessing in diguise is that when a plumaria goes to seed the seeds off of that plant will not be the same (even if it is controled polination with its on pollen) as the parent plant. That is why named varieties are so expensive and seedlings are not. A true named cultivar can only come from a cutting not seed. I have over 130 from 8 feet to seedlings and all go in full hot sun and little water. The hotter the better. when they are leafed out give them water and fertilizer ( at least) weekly at this point to much of either will not kill them. The fertilizer if grandular needs to have a middle number over 25 and if water soiuble over 50. In winter if the go dormant ( no leaf) give them nothing at all no water and no food until the first leaf than once a week until the first full size leaf than at this point food and water as normal. check out plumaria101.com for more info.

[tikitiki]

full day all day sun.( this one started out slow and the growth gets bigger every year. the only one that does this.)

seed pod

cuttings

[tikitiki]

This is singapore obtusa. You can tell a singapore by the green glossy leaves.

[Walter John]

These four come from different places, cuttings I have propagated. Spring begins this week here.

I'll take another photo from the same spot in about 3 months, we'll see what we have then. A before and after job.

[Eric in Orlando]

Here are some others;

Plumeria obtusa

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph.....src=ph

Plumeria pudica

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph.....src=ph

Plumeria stenophylla

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph.....src=ph

[Randy]

I guess I'm trying to determine what type these are and which ones can take more cold in the winter and direct Arizona sun/heat int he summer?

There is a resort in Phoenix that has very large (by my standards) plumeria thriving in their landscape with full exposure.

See the link by the Valley of the Sun Plumeria Society for pictures of these plumeria:

http://family.webshots.com/photo/411105504...027747486FPMquL

Based on the leaf shape, this appears to be an obtusa- which is supposed to be less heat and cold tolerant????

I have a few spots in filtered sun that I could also plant plumeria less tolerant of the sun, but it would be great to one day have a larger plumeria on the west facing, unprotected fence line - otherwise known as the "wall of death."

[Eric in Orlando]

That is Plumeria obtusa. I think it is hardier than the common P. rubra. A few years ago we had a 27F night and the P. rubra we had froze down several inches from the tips. The P. obtusa wasn't damaged. Here, P. obtusa is mostly evergreen. The freeze made some leaves fall off but thats all and it is in an open location. It flowers almost all year and is very drought tolerant. I think P. obtusa is a tougher plant.

[tikitiki]

Yes, it is obtusa. Like eric said they are a bit more forgiving. Mine flowers year round and never loses its leaves while some of the others defoliate. All plumarias can take full sun from a very early age. Just cover at freezing. If the cold gets them just cut back until you see white and they will be fine. Full Hot Sun.

[tikitiki]

The wall of death would be a great place especially if it is the wall of little water, hot sun wall of death. To much sun will not kill them to much water will and to much shade can result in fungal outbreaks.

[Randy]

Eric,

I was in the area today and stopped by for a closer look and took a few minutes to walk the grounds of the resort. It was pretty impressive in terms of the natural micro climates for exotics.

There were a number of plumeria, most were obtusa but there were some rubra. The obtusa were the largest and were blooming, with that great signature scent!

So i'd like to plant an obtusa in the ground on the wall of death, and I'd like it one day to grow into a large tree. Being that I can only find cuttings around here, how mature would yo think it would need to be before it could be planted in the landscape and withstand the heat and cold?

I'm inclined to plant the rubra under several queen palms for partial protection...

But from what I'm hearing - if the tips freeze in the winter, then before spring I should trim back the tips until I hit white tissue and they will grow from there?

Sorry I'm full of questions but I'm trying to plan the landscape and don't want to loose the few plumeria I have. A number of people around here are into "plunging" plumeria in pots in the ground, and then cold storage in the garage in the winter months.

I'd like mine t be permanent in the ladscape and growing bigger every season.

[Randy]

By the way - great pictures in your earlier posts!

[Randy]

(tikitiki @ Sep. 01 2006,14:47)

QUOTE

The wall of death would be a great place especially if it is the wall of little water, hot sun wall of death. To much sun will not kill them to much water will and to much shade can result in fungal outbreaks.

You know currently the wall of death is also the edge of my burmuda grass lawn, so it is in a sprinkler zone...

Grass schedules are 2 to 3 times per week in the heat.

[tikitiki]

plumaria can take full sun from an eary age. I have cuttings that are put in the ground as soon as they form a root ball. The picture I posted ( the little ones in the pots) are seedlings that I hand cross polinated. they were germinated a month ago and put into full sun this month. So sun is not a problem. I have NEVER lost a plumaria because of to much sun. If I get a freeze The ends will turn to brown mush. Keep cutting them back as far as you must to get healthy tissue ( white and milky) I have had to cut one back all the way to the ground and it came back no problem. As far as plunging this works well but when the plant goes into dormancy you must keep the soil surface clean ( no falling leaves in the pot) and ventilated or the plant will get stem rot.  It will grow to its full potential in the pot as long as the pot gets bigger and heavier to move. I put all mine in the ground and cover at 32 f with frost cloth and vent when the teperatures allow. As for the sprinklers as long as it is hot and they have mature leaves irrigation is not a problem. Mine are in Florida with rain everyday in the hot afternoon with no problem. In the winter in the ground 2 to 3 days a week should not be a problem a slong as there is good drainage. In a pot water in their dormant stage will kill them. If you do put them in partial shade look for  any fungal attack, remove the affected leaves , and spray with a fungicide. I have to do this at least once a year in the summer do to high humidity. But they leaf out within a week or two and it is not a problem. So to pot or not to pot is your choice? You will get the same effect either way just one will require more work and one will need to be covered.

[Randy]

Tiki,

Yhank you for the great information! Is there a routine you do in terms of fungicides or other stuff to keep them healthy? I fertilize with Peter's Super Blossom Booster avery couple of weeks...

[Randy]

Tiki,

How old are the plumeria in your posts? I'm trying to get a sense of growth for plumeria planted in the ground, and yours are a nice size.

[tikitiki]

The singapore is slow it has been in the ground for around 3 years now from a five gallon. The largest two have been in the ground for about 1 1/2 years from a 7 gallon. Some grow three to four feet a year some grow less than a foot. I have  alot of seedlings and they are all in the same area and some are twice the size of the others with the same care. It is plant specific from what i can tell. A high nitrogen fertilizer will grow a plant tall a high middle number like a bloom booster will increase branching through flower production. A watersoluble fertilizer will need to have a middle number over 50 and a grandular fertilizer will need above 25. I fertilize once a week in the growing season and then not at all in winter.  As for fungicide, I only aplly it when I can see something forming on the plant itself. Most of the fungal problems are due to high humidity and high rain. Something you might not have to deal with. In Florida this is an issue and something I will spray for this weekend. It would probably be smart for me to spray once a month but I don't.

[Lee in AZ]

Alright now Randy, I think it's time to get some of those in the ground next year. Get them out of the pots!

Oh and in your third picture, I like that Royal looking palm in the background.

Lee

[Randy]

Hi Lee,

Those royals have grown a lot in the past 6 weeks! I'll have to line'em up for a family portrait!

One of them already has about a 1" diameter trunk.

I'm still working on where to plant them next spring. Kinda thinking right next to my queen grouping, it will offer some real height variance later in life for sure! I also think that the queens can offer trunk burn protection until the royal is a moose and doesn't care. How do you like that logic?

Also trying to figure out the plumeria though, I really want to plant and maybe only cover on a hard freeze...

[Lee in AZ]

Randy,

It would be great to see a picture of your youngins. I think the Queens would probably help them with some protection from the sun. I'd be interested to see the spot, feel free to shoot me a pic.

I agree with planting the Plumeria but being prepared to cover them during a hard freeze. Our day time temps rebound fast enough that you could take the protection off before going to work or such. There's some nice ones here in Tucson. I think you'll have to be more prepared to protect yours from the sun than the winter.

Lee

[Randy]

Another acquisition...

Found four flowering rooted cuttings at a local big box store for less money than a sealed cutting from the ABC store that probably wouldn't live!

There were also some 24-30" plants that looked like they'd donated all their meaningful branches, so I passed. I think whomever sold them to the big box store got rid of a couple of donor plants after they had their way with them, so to speak.

I've identified what I think I have: two pink (Maui Sunrise), and two yellow-white (aztec gold and a nebels gold).

These cuttings are nice and thick, and will be good branching stock from the looks of it. I like more of a bushy stock after buying my first plumeria, which is about 5' and looks like a topiary, a long thin 3.5' trunk.

Anyway, just thought I'd update my "plumeria's from here and there" post, now I have eight -  a friend brought back an obtusa singapore (white) cutting the week before from Kuai.

Buildin' the grove, one plumeria at a time...!

[Al in Kona]

Yeah Plumerias are great plants.  Have you guys who live in areas where frost can be a problem, ever tried any of the dwarf type Plumerias?  Here's a pic of my Dwf. Singapore pink . . .

[Zac in NC]

Al- How large is that one? I am tring to get a sense of scale, but I am not successful. I have a few Plumerias. A red one, and 2 other unknowns that I got from Danny Lewis ( palmazon) on my trip to California back in July, and then a cutting of Aztec Gold cutting that I got from a guy in Virginia.

Zac

[Randy]

Al,

That's a nice looking plumeria, and I wasn't aware that there was a dwarf out there. I'm finding that these guys like the arizona sun part of the day, and it looks like the larger trees can handle our cold months. There are some documented tree's in my area that can take full direct sun and cold and are planted in the landscape. Ironically, they are obtusa which most think are less cold resistant because they are more evergreen than the rubra. Rubra seem to do pretty well with microclimate protection.

So I'm seeking obtusa cuttings that I hope to one day plant in my landscape and enjoy - plumeria are an excellent accent or companion plant for palms in my opinion!

Curious about the dwarf, are you suggesting that they are more frost tolerant for some reason?

[Zac in NC]

Randy- I think Al mentioned the dwarf, as it would be a hell of a lot easier to cover and protect if it came to that, rather than the trouble it would be to cover a full sized normal one.

Zac

[Randy]

That makes perfect sense! That one kinda went right over my head - duh

[Walter John]

(Wal @ Aug. 29 2006,06:57)

QUOTE

These four come from different places, cuttings I have propagated. Spring begins this week here.

I'll take another photo from the same spot in about 3 months, we'll see what we have then. A before and after job.

Here's the latest plus a close up of the flowers on the far tree.

[Randy]

Great picutures Wal- love seeing the before and after!

You were right, three months later and they went from "twigs" tp plumeria foliage and great looking blooms.

It makes me realize spring is a ways off yet in Arizona, we're just seeing the cool temps now and the plumeria leaves are falling quickly on the one I have outside. I brought the rest inside and have them in the window frames.

Oh well, guess we can't all live in a place with constant 80dF temps...

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

For you guys growing Plumerias in hurricane prone areas don't overwater.  The plumies root systems are not that strong and if they get too much water the upper parts get too fat and heavy (sort of like tall cactus).  The more water heavy plumies break up more in winds and tend to blow over more frequently.

Jerry