Comparing Climates

[osideterry]

I've been on this forum just over a year now, and it's been an education in learning about what others here experience. It's interesting finding people on the other side of the world with a similar climate.

Our Southern California climate seems to be mirrored most by New Zealand, Southern Australia, Greece and maybe Spain. I wish there were more Mediterranean folks posting to compare notes with.

Anyone else find people a world away with a similar climate?

[toto]

A part of  France(around Menton) South Italy, southern Croatian islands and a part of coast all have a 9b climate simular to yours, Sicily is even warmer.

The island in Croatia where I live is a  sunset  zone  21/22, 9b climate

toto

[osideterry]

Now I remember your posts from Croatia... We need to recruit more people from your region. They have to be growing palms there.

I'm just wondering how ...

the British Isles compare with the Pacific Northwest?

the Philippines compare to Hawaii?

Queensland compares with South Florida?

Brazil compares to india?

Are my guesses close or way off

[madagascarbob]

Greece just got snow but so did San Diego !

[Cristóbal]

england = washington oregon usa

tahiti = hawaii

south china queensland australia = south florida

israel egipt moroco west coast south africa = southern california baja california

phillipines = puerto rico

to find climates similar to some place look for same latitude, position on continent (west coast / east coast), and warm or cold current of the ocean. because of the affect of coriolis on the earth cold currents are on west side of continents and go to the equator, warm currents on east side and go to the poles.

[happ]

(Cristóbal @ Feb. 19 2008,16:31)

QUOTE

england = washington oregon usa

tahiti = hawaii

south china queensland australia = south florida

israel egipt moroco west coast south africa = southern california baja california

phillipines = puerto rico

to find climates similar to some place look for same latitude, position on continent (west coast / east coast), and warm or cold current of the ocean. because of the affect of coriolis on the earth cold currents are on west side of continents and go to the equator, warm currents on east side and go to the poles.

Yes, Cristóbal is correct  :cool: southern Mediterranean /dry mild-warm climate off Africa compares to SoCal

[amazondk]

Terry,

Both Brazil and India are very big countries.  Brazil is almost 90 percent within the tropics.  But, the climate varies greatly due to altitude, rainfall, along with latitude.   In the very south there is a subtropical climate and in some high areas it does snow and freeze in the winter.  Where I live is really more similar to Singapore and parts of Indonesia, equatorial humid low land tropics.  The semiarid northeast is more similar to parts of Africa.  Parts of Brazil are indeed similar to parts of India as well.

dk

[sonoranfans]

(happ @ Feb. 19 2008,22:57)

QUOTE

(Cristóbal @ Feb. 19 2008,16:31)

QUOTE

england = washington oregon usa

tahiti = hawaii

south china queensland australia = south florida

israel egipt moroco west coast south africa = southern california baja california

phillipines = puerto rico

to find climates similar to some place look for same latitude, position on continent (west coast / east coast), and warm or cold current of the ocean. because of the affect of coriolis on the earth cold currents are on west side of continents and go to the equator, warm currents on east side and go to the poles.

Yes, Cristóbal is correct  :cool: southern Mediterranean /dry mild-warm climate off Africa compares to SoCal

Isnt the ocean off socal much colder than the mediterranean sea due to the alaskan source of the ocean currents?  I have been to san diego perhaps 10 times and have never observed anything over 60 degrees F as the ocean water temp.  I would think the mediterranean sea would be much warmer.  It seems logical that cold water impacts seacoast weather and humidity quite a bit.

[Dave-Vero]

http://www.globalbioclimatics.org/

http://www.klimadiagramme.de/

These will take some searching, but the climate diagrams are enormously useful for finding climate matches.

[happ]

Tom

I think you are right about ocean temps in the Mediterranean [esp the southern sea area].  Ocean temps around San Diego are generally the warmest in California [from upper 50's - low 70's]

Dave

Fantastic links  

[Jeff in St Pete]

(amazondk @ Feb. 20 2008,09:20)

QUOTE

Terry,

Both Brazil and India are very big countries.  Brazil is almost 90 percent within the tropics.  But, the climate varies greatly due to altitude, rainfall, along with latitude.   In the very south there is a subtropical climate and in some high areas it does snow and freeze in the winter.  Where I live is really more similar to Singapore and parts of Indonesia, equatorial humid low land tropics.  The semiarid northeast is more similar to parts of Africa.  Parts of Brazil are indeed similar to parts of India as well.

dk

Don, I was thinking the same thing when I read this post.  I figured I was closer to parts of Southeast Asia in climate, maybe because C renda looks right at home here!  I've heard this area of Costa Rica described as humid low land tropics, although we are a little north of the equator here.  Costa Rica also has many different climates because of the different elevations.  On the way to San Jose as you are coming down over the mountains into the Central Valley, there is a small town called Atenas that National Geographic says is one of the best climates in the world.  It's eternally spring-like there.  Sounds like a great place to live, never too hot or too cold!

[Walter John]

(osideterry @ Feb. 20 2008,04:27)

QUOTE

Now I remember your posts from Croatia... We need to recruit more people from your region. They have to be growing palms there.

I'm just wondering how ...

the British Isles compare with the Pacific Northwest?

the Philippines compare to Hawaii?

Queensland compares with South Florida?

Brazil compares to india?

Are my guesses close or way off

I like your attempt at comparison Terry, one has to start somewhere. It is an interesting concept and worth investigating and showing us all the closest results.

Speaking as a Queensland rep here , I don't think anybody outside Australia fully appreciates (realises) the sheer size of our country and our states, in particular Queensland. Queensland has a land size of 1.7 million square kilometres, 22% of Australia. South Florida is approx 3000 square kilometres (looked it up). So comparing the two is impossible, does not compute. Rule one in other words, never generalise Queensland's climate, I would guess that the coastal regions from say  just north of Rockhampton (Rocky) to Mackay may see a familiar climate with Sth Florida. Col Wilson, our southern most ratpacker may know better than I on that one.

What do you say folks ?

[SubTropicRay]

NE Queensland is warmer than SoFla.  In Cairns, one finds Cyrtostachys planted out in the open.

The Brisbane area is more comparable to coastal central Florida.  Brisbane is probably a tad warmer.

What's being grown with ease is the true gage.

[_Keith]

This is a real tough one for Louisiana.  I guess most of what I have to go on here, is that most of the introduced plants that do have done well over many decades originated in China.  Now, I have to do a little research on what regions of China.

At least this gives me something to research.  Thx.

[bubba]

I think Cristobal's analysis is on point. Wal definitely opens eye's regarding the depth of the term "Queensland".I think Ray is correct in his statement comparing Brisbane to area's in coastal Central Florida,although Wal's garden shots seem to show that Brisbane grows everything from Coconuts to other exotics with great ease.I am not sure Brisbane suffers the infrequent but possible disastrous freeze seen in coastal Central Florida.I would like to review temperature comparisons of the two regions.

[Really full garden]

From what Ive seen and read on this forum my garden is very similar to those in  Manila,Philippines and Darwin Australia.The other parts of Guatemala vary greatly.Far eastern Guatemala has a wet tropical climate.Guatemala City due to its altitude is much like Santa Barbara and San Francisco.

[Tyrone]

The climate here in Perth is equivalent to northern Mexico. Further south is much like southern Cali, with Albany more like San Francisco. The climate gets ever more tropical the further north you go, but you don't hit the seasonally humid tropics until Broome.

WA fits into the same sort of situation that Wal has described for QLD. It stretches from around 35S up to just below Darwin, so it's REALLY BIG.

regards

Tyrone

[ariscott]

Apparently, Darwin is pretty close to some part of Madagascar. We are monsoonal tropics. Different to Northern Queensland where it is more wet tropics. We don't get rain in the dry season when it is cool and dry. And we get convection rain in the build-up where is HUMID and HOT!!!! And when the monsoon comes, everything is wet and green!! Different to most people who love the dry season, I love the monsoon...

So there.... even the northern part of Australia can be different... Northern Qld has more rain anytime of the year, and more cloud cover. So, things that grow there in full sun might not necessarily grow here in full sun. I haven't been to Kimberley, WA - so I can't comment.

Regards, Ari

[Neofolis]

The UK may be small compared with the US, but there is still some climate variation here.  For example, some areas have the majority of their rainfall in winter,  others in summer, and at various other points throughout the year, not too mention amount of rainfall which varies considerably.  There is also a slight variation temperature wise.  We have areas ranging from Zone 7a to Zone 10a, although this only applies in terms of absolute minimums, because nowhere here has consistent summer heat.

In terms of my specific location, I would say it compares roughly with Seattle, in terms of average temperatures.  We have slightly less rainfall, but a similar pattern of rainfall throughout the year and our temperature extremes don't go as high or as low.

The mildest UK climates in southwest coastal regions compare with Astoria, Oregon in terms of average temperatures, but much less rain and nothing like the same extremes of temperature.

[SubTropicRay]

Keith,

Until that big freeze arrives, Coconuts grow in coastal central Florida with ease too.  I can't believe how many are mature in my neighborhood alone.

Ray

[palmazon]

here's a useful link from The Weather Channel to compare temperature averages; I found it on Foxtail Farm's site

[John in Andalucia]

(osideterry @ Feb. 19 2008,19:04)

QUOTE

I've been on this forum just over a year now, and it's been an education in learning about what others here experience. It's interesting finding people on the other side of the world with a similar climate.

Our Southern California climate seems to be mirrored most by New Zealand, Southern Australia, Greece and maybe Spain. I wish there were more Mediterranean folks posting to compare notes with.

Anyone else find people a world away with a similar climate?

"...and maybe Spain" is quite true. At least where we are. This part of the south coast of Spain is called the "Costa Tropical". Its in a micro-climate region that sees temperatures no lower than 6-8 degrees Celsius in winter, summer highs of around 35/38, and when the rain has finished around May (and there's not much) it is often dry until late Autumn. We grow oranges, lemons, mandarins, papaya, guava, banana and a host of other tropical fruit. My town of Motril is home to the last sugarcane sugar factory in Europe, and makes its own rum too! The molasses are now imported from Cuba, I believe, but they still grow sugar cane here. At Christmas I drove to collect a family friend some 40km north of here, and the temperature having left home at 10 degrees, had dropped EIGHT degrees when we arrived at the train station. Never a truer word existed to compare our climates than the song about S. California  .."when it pours, man it pours!!"

[bubba]

John,Extremely interesting post from an extremely intriguing spot in the world.We grow Cane in South Florida also.It seems your climate should allow for Coconut Palms.Have you tried them?What is the range in water temperature of the Meditterean and what is the lowest minimum ever recorded?Would love to see pictures.Thank you.

[Gileno Machado]

Our weather in Sirinhaem by the sea is probably very similar to Fiji, Maldives and Seychelles, where the ocean influence doesn`t allow the temperatures ever to come either very low or very high throughout the year. I think the basic difference from South India is that we don`t have a monsoon here and that the breeze blows straight from the ocean in the East for 365 days of the year, cooling off the effects of the merciless sunshine of 8 degrees latitude, which provides us with two summers in a row (sun travelling South and then Northwards) before the short humid and relatively cool rainy season, usually in June and July.

I`ve tried to compare the weather here with the one in Hilo, Hawaii and Eastern Caribbean but I`ve found these climates to be much more humid throughout the year and quite cooler in the winter. Now if we go some 250 km inland here to the west of my State, then it probably feels a lot like northern Texas in summer, although the temperature never gets any lower than 15 degrees C in the winter, even at the highest altitudes.

Our weather is also very different from the one in the Southeast region, Rio de Janeiro for instance, where it gets easily 40+ degrees C by the sea in summer (with occasional rainstorms and zero winds, ouch) and it`s also a lot cooler in the winter and where the Antarctic streams keep dropping the water temps considerably. Brrrrrrrrr...

[_Keith]

(bubba @ Feb. 22 2008,10:45)

QUOTE

John,Extremely interesting post from an extremely intriguing spot in the world.We grow Cane in South Florida also.It seems your climate should allow for Coconut Palms.Have you tried them?What is the range in water temperature of the Meditterean and what is the lowest minimum ever recorded?Would love to see pictures.Thank you.

Don't go by Sugar Cane.  Louisiana is one of the largest producers and you sure won't find any Coconuts growing here.

[John in Andalucia]

Hi bubba, and thanks! I don't know much about the sea temperatures, we've lived here less than 4 years. I did a bit of Googling though, and found this animation. On this video, Motril is approx. center of the middle row square, left:

here

Regarding coconut palms, I asked someone the same question recently; why aren't there any here? I should grow one, if not for my namesake!  The lowest temperatures here? Did you mean the sea temperature? Couldn't tell you, to be honest. We had snow here in Jan 2005 I think it was. My partner's mother is 78 and she'd never seen snow here, so it really was an event. It killed all the bananas, of course. It was well photographed too. I'll find a link later and post back.

[bubba]

John,Thank you for the link.I was not as clear as I meant to be.I was interested in the lowest minimum air temperature ever recorded in your area.Additionally,I was interested in the range of water temperatures usually experienced in your area of the Meditterean.

I am not certain of your latitude but you could become a figure of cult rock status if you would grow a Cocos nucifera and give us reports.All other interesting things would be greatly appreciated also.Thanks again!

[John in Andalucia]

(bubba @ Feb. 22 2008,18:48)

QUOTE

I am not certain of your latitude but you could become a figure of cult rock status if you would grow a Cocos nucifera and give us reports.All other interesting things would be greatly appreciated also.Thanks again!

(Latitude: 364400N /Longitude: 033100W) Tell me more!?! I have several thousand seeds of about 30 species of mainly tropical palms on the go, but I don't have a Cocos nucifera!! Are you an aficionado?

[NBTX11]

(Wal @ Feb. 21 2008,04:17)

QUOTE

(osideterry @ Feb. 20 2008,04:27)

QUOTE

Now I remember your posts from Croatia... We need to recruit more people from your region. They have to be growing palms there.

I'm just wondering how ...

the British Isles compare with the Pacific Northwest?

the Philippines compare to Hawaii?

Queensland compares with South Florida?

Brazil compares to india?

Are my guesses close or way off

I like your attempt at comparison Terry, one has to start somewhere. It is an interesting concept and worth investigating and showing us all the closest results.

Speaking as a Queensland rep here , I don't think anybody outside Australia fully appreciates (realises) the sheer size of our country and our states, in particular Queensland. Queensland has a land size of 1.7 million square kilometres, 22% of Australia. South Florida is approx 3000 square kilometres (looked it up). So comparing the two is impossible, does not compute. Rule one in other words, never generalise Queensland's climate, I would guess that the coastal regions from say  just north of Rockhampton (Rocky) to Mackay may see a familiar climate with Sth Florida. Col Wilson, our southern most ratpacker may know better than I on that one.

What do you say folks ?

Depends on what you mean by "South Florida".  If you're just talking about Metro Miami (Dade and Broward Counties), yes you are right.  But if you are including all of "South" Florida, it is much larger.

There are 170,000 sq km in FL.  If you divide that up into roughly 1/3 for North, Central, and South FL, that equals about 56,000 sq km for all of S. FL (not just the Miami Metro, aka "South Florida metro area").  The South FL metro area is just a small strip of land near the coast, and doesn't include vast areas of land in the interior S FL, including the everglades.

[bubba]

John,I am an aficionado and you will hold the world-wide record at your latitude.A gentleman from Greece is also working on this endeavor and is considering acquisitions of Cocos nucifera from the Canary Islands to accompolish this task.You will attain world-wide cult status upon your success in this Mission,should you choose to undertake it!Elvis,the Beatles,Hendrix and too many others to mention will have nothing to one up you on,my friend!Do it!I am not kidding!

[John in Andalucia]

Bubba,

There's a guy on the EPS forum from The Netherlands who's growing a fine specimen! I think he'd win.

Check it out

[Walter John]

(syersj @ Feb. 23 2008,04:21)

QUOTE

(Wal @ Feb. 21 2008,04:17)

QUOTE

(osideterry @ Feb. 20 2008,04:27)

QUOTE

Now I remember your posts from Croatia... We need to recruit more people from your region. They have to be growing palms there.

I'm just wondering how ...

the British Isles compare with the Pacific Northwest?

the Philippines compare to Hawaii?

Queensland compares with South Florida?

Brazil compares to india?

Are my guesses close or way off

I like your attempt at comparison Terry, one has to start somewhere. It is an interesting concept and worth investigating and showing us all the closest results.

Speaking as a Queensland rep here , I don't think anybody outside Australia fully appreciates (realises) the sheer size of our country and our states, in particular Queensland. Queensland has a land size of 1.7 million square kilometres, 22% of Australia. South Florida is approx 3000 square kilometres (looked it up). So comparing the two is impossible, does not compute. Rule one in other words, never generalise Queensland's climate, I would guess that the coastal regions from say  just north of Rockhampton (Rocky) to Mackay may see a familiar climate with Sth Florida. Col Wilson, our southern most ratpacker may know better than I on that one.

What do you say folks ?

Depends on what you mean by "South Florida".  If you're just talking about Metro Miami (Dade and Broward Counties), yes you are right.  But if you are including all of "South" Florida, it is much larger.

There are 170,000 sq km in FL.  If you divide that up into roughly 1/3 for North, Central, and South FL, that equals about 56,000 sq km for all of S. FL (not just the Miami Metro, aka "South Florida metro area").  The South FL metro area is just a small strip of land near the coast, and doesn't include vast areas of land in the interior S FL, including the everglades.

Thanks Jim. That makes more sense.

[bubba]

Wal,Your temperatures in Brisbane appear very close to Central Florida and the RGV in the coolest month(ie July/Jan.) at an average of 60F.The warmer months both area's are substantially hotter.The RGV experiences far higher maximum Highs while Central Florida is warmer with higher average low temperatures in warmer months.

The interesting part in my admittedly limited comparison is that it appears Brisbane has only experienced one freezing event on July 19,2007.This obviously has major implications for the nature of the Tropical Palms and Plants that can be grown in Brisbane.

What are your humidity levels year round.During your cooler months what is the varabilityof minimum temperatures during your cooler months.What a climate!I wish I could learn more about it!

[bubba]

John, I could not open the link but would seriously suggest you grow a Cocos nucifera in your Microclimate.I can't believe any person in the Netherlands can be sucessful for anything but a short duration.You,however,have the opportunity to make some history.

[PricklyPearSATX]

Tyrone:

Your climate seems almost identical to Tampico, Mexico, which is located in Central, Mexico.  (Tropical)  22N  on the Gulf Coast.  Rainfall is equivalent too.

Subtropical, Matamoras, Mexico  (26N) on the Gulf Coast gets about 650 mm precip. per year.  

I'm a little familiar with North East Mexico, as their daily temps are in our local paper.  North East Mexico has hotter and drier  summers and their winters are somewhat colder, although frost in Moneterry, Matamoros, and Nuevo Laredo is not very common.  

Summer highs on the coast for North East Mexico: 33c (92F)

Inland:  36-39c (98-102F)

Summer lows are about the same for the coastal and inland.   25c (77F)

[Tyrone]

(PricklyPearSATX @ Feb. 25 2008,15:55)

QUOTE

Tyrone:

Your climate seems almost identical to Tampico, Mexico, which is located in Central, Mexico.  (Tropical)  22N  on the Gulf Coast.  Rainfall is equivalent too.

Subtropical, Matamoras, Mexico  (26N) on the Gulf Coast gets about 650 mm precip. per year.  

I'm a little familiar with North East Mexico, as their daily temps are in our local paper.  North East Mexico has hotter and drier  summers and their winters are somewhat colder, although frost in Moneterry, Matamoros, and Nuevo Laredo is not very common.  

Summer highs on the coast for North East Mexico: 33c (92F)

Inland:  36-39c (98-102F)

Summer lows are about the same for the coastal and inland.   25c (77F)

Thanks for the info. I'll check this place out.

regards

Tyrone

[John in Andalucia]

(bubba @ Feb. 25 2008,15:47)

QUOTE

John, I could not open the link but would seriously suggest you grow a Cocos nucifera in your Microclimate.I can't believe any person in the Netherlands can be sucessful for anything but a short duration.You,however,have the opportunity to make some history.

Bubba,

Although I'm certain of  growing one in my greenhouse, the problem for long term survival outdoors is the low humidity. Sand and a drop of sea water I can do, but the humidity is very low here - especially in Summer with southerly winds blowing in from the Sahara Desert. Despite this, I think it's something I should try, as you say. Now is the time to get one, but from where? The Maypan coconut looks like the way to go.

[osideterry]

princeofpalms - Is 6°c your average winter low or average annual minimum low?

Your southern Saharan desert winds sound a lot like our northeastern Santa Ana winds, only ours are their worst in the Fall. Your ocean temps aren't as warm as I would expect. I thought the gulf stream would affect it even more.

[John in Andalucia]

(osideterry @ Feb. 26 2008,21:07)

QUOTE

princeofpalms - Is 6°c your average winter low or average annual minimum low?

osideterry,

6°C is as low as it gets in here Winter. I'm being specific when I say here, I mean where our house is - 3km inland from the coast, at an elevation less than a hundred meters above sea level, and sheltered by a range of hills. In the evening I stay at another house we own that is a 7km drive further inland and a few hundred meters higher. The Winter low there is about 4°C. From mid November to end of Febuary the lows range between 6 and 10 where we are, making the Winter average low around 8°C. Average annual low would be around 12°C. The "Leveche" is also known as a Sirocco wind in other parts of the Mediterranean, and you can't mistake it. It comes from out of nowhere starting from late Spring, and can gust up to hurricane force, often making nighttime temperatures exceed the average high of the same day. If it ever rains during this period, we get 'chocolate rain' as the locals call it. Red dust from Morocco caught up in the Leveche rains down - leaving your nicely washed car looking like it was abandoned for months!

[JakeK]

This may not be of interest to most on this board since both climates aren't that conducive to growing palms, but the closest foreign city to Cincinnati's average monthly high/low and precipitation is Verona Italy. Milan also has similar monthly temperatures and rainfall. The big difference is that due North of both Verona and Milan are the Alps which do a great job of blocking the cold arctic air. Due North of Cincinnati is flat land all the way to Hudson Bay, so Cincinnati can experience sub zero temperatures at least once per year on average.