Zamia Collection

[cycadjungle]

If given proper care most cycad species will produce cones at a particular schedule, but that time might vary a month one way or the other, depending on the weather. With coonties for example, many times the females will become receptive just after Christmas, where this year, the coonties are just now finishing up, so they are a couple of months late this season. You will also see a pattern the more species you have and with more individuals of each species you have of each. Jeff was showing many zamias that have what I call "the tan coned species of zamias" You will see Zamia loddogesii, furfuracea, variegata, inermis, purpurea, and a few more, all produce cones and become receptive close to the same time. This causes problems for breeders here in FLorida because the weevils that were brought in at the same time the big furfuracea stems were being brought in from Mexico, will move around from plant to plant and can cross any of these species at the same time unless you do something to prevent it. This can be a bad problem with all these seeds you see at auctions that come from gardens. Many of the "pumila type" zamias will all do their thing at the same time as well, but at a different time than the tan coned zamias. One thing that I find curious is that the Dominican plant, the true Zamia pumila, will always become receptive at a later time frame than the coonties, and most of the other Carribean zamias. Since there are still people who call coonties, Zamia pumila, how can they be the same as the Dominican plant when they don't naturally become receptive in the same time frame?  Anyway, this might give you a better idea on cycad timings. I like zamias as well and was one of the first genus I concentrated on when I first started collecting for seed colonies. Females on many zamias can produce cones at the age of 3 to 4 years if grown correctly. For me, the Z. angustifolias seemed to take a few extra years to produce cones. I now have 4 females and because of another weird experiment I did back about 5 years ago, one of them has about 25 heads on it and produces multiple cones each year.

[Walter John]

bugger, now I must get Zamia skinneri. Fantastic pics Mr Bond, nature's design team really pulverises the senses at times, this is one of those times.

[virtualpalm]

(Jeff Searle @ Mar. 23 2008,20:51)

QUOTE

Jody,

     These plants are not Z. elegantissima. If you come for a visit, (what do I have to feed you supper to get you over here?) you would see how small these plants really are. Also, I do have Z. elegantissima (5 plants) growing in another part of my yard, which I will show later. They are pretty big. And, they flush many, light yellow leaves when they push out new growth.

Jeff

I really don't think they are Z. acuminata; the leaflets appear to be too large, the cone is too light, and Z. acuminata is acaulescent, while these plants are arborescent. There is an undescribed species similar to, but quite a bit smaller than, Z. elegantissima which we refer to as Z. sp. 'Blanco' because of its nearly white new leaves. Based on the light-colored new leaf in one of your photos and the above-ground trunk, I think sp. 'Blanco' is the most likely candidate.

Jody

[LJG]

(Jeff Searle @ Mar. 22 2008,04:43)

QUOTE

(LJG @ Mar. 21 2008,23:16)

QUOTE

Do you have Zamia angustifolia?

Len,

     No, never have. Why, any reason, is it one of your favorites?

Jeff

It is for those that can be grown in SoCal. obviously there are many nicer ones that we can not grow here. You have  a few.

Angustifolia is a nice plant. Very hard to find past seedling size. So I like looking to see if others have this in their garden.

[LJG]

(tropicalb @ Mar. 23 2008,07:50)

QUOTE

I finally moved almost ALL the palms out of this greenhouse and it's going to be Zamia-mania in here!

Z. sp. "mexico":

Z. standleyi:

Nice Burt. I did not know you were a Zamia guy. I will need to stop by.

While I like Encephalartos, it seems the old time gardeners stated they would not plant these in abundance if they had to do it over again. Also, what Jeff stated was the major reason. So I will try to learn early and go more towards the Cycas, Zamia, Ceratozamia, route.

[Jeff Searle]

(virtualpalm @ Mar. 23 2008,21:27)

QUOTE

(Jeff Searle @ Mar. 23 2008,20:51)

QUOTE

Jody,

     These plants are not Z. elegantissima. If you come for a visit, (what do I have to feed you supper to get you over here?) you would see how small these plants really are. Also, I do have Z. elegantissima (5 plants) growing in another part of my yard, which I will show later. They are pretty big. And, they flush many, light yellow leaves when they push out new growth.

Jeff

I really don't think they are Z. acuminata; the leaflets appear to be too large, the cone is too light, and Z. acuminata is acaulescent, while these plants are arborescent. There is an undescribed species similar to, but quite a bit smaller than, Z. elegantissima which we refer to as Z. sp. 'Blanco' because of its nearly white new leaves. Based on the light-colored new leaf in one of your photos and the above-ground trunk, I think sp. 'Blanco' is the most likely candidate.

Jody

Jody,

    How you just described ( my own plants ) was pretty accurate. They do have trunks, and the new leaves are light in color. So, a new still undesribed specie, very interesting. Thanks !

Jeff

[Mike4284m]

How old are the Z. skinneri Jeff?  They are by far one of my favorite cycads, along with Z. fairchildiana.

[BS Man about Palms]

(tropicalb @ Mar. 21 2008,18:42)

QUOTE

I do have several Enceph. around the yard, but I'm trying to keep the numbers down on them because of getting poked so much

Jeff....

after a while, you don't even feel it anymore. I walk thru mine and come out a bloody mess all the time, and don't even notice it 'til someone says, " uh......hey man, you're bleeding".

I just start saying "Ow" as  I walk into the area....  

[Jeff Searle]

Mike,

    These are well over 20 years old, I would guess. They have some wood to them, which as you know, comes very slowly.

Jeff

[XYZ]

Jeff:

I'll respectfully discrep with Jody and say that I have seen what is still known as Z. acuminata in and around the Valle de Antón with very short trunks.

I have attached a picture of wild plants of Zamia sp. 'Blanco' - this population develops trunks to > 2.0 m tall, unlike the "normal" Z. elegantissima seen down in the lowlands.

[edleigh7]

(Jeff Searle @ Mar. 21 2008,19:16)

QUOTE

While in the same area of yard, I noticed this Cycas tansachana flushing out a new set of leaves. This plant has not coned yet.

Jeff, this is slightly off topic, I know, but is that a birds nest Anthurium to the left of that cycad? If so which one?

Hmm OK the photo didn't appear but it is the 9th photo from the start of the thread

[Dave-Vero]

Yes, Jody needs to come over for dinner.

Greg Holzman was probably correct in suggesting that in any particular location, local palms have leaves imitating those of the local zamia species, which are probably poisonous to local herbivores.  Leaf mimicry is one of those things that's been suggested for a long time, but is very hard to pin down.  

The tropical forest zamias appear to have very effective chemical defenses against being eaten, flexy above-ground stems that can survive being hit by falling branches, excellent ability to cope with the dry season and/or salt water flooding, and effective pollinators.  Not that zamias seem to be super-fussy about who does the pollinating.  In other words, they're living and evolving in thoroughly modern environments, and are successfully competing for sunlight and nutrients against all sorts of seed plants.  Zamia pseudoparasitica, the epiphyte, vividly demonstrates the drought tolerance.  What's really puzzling is how its (presumably big) seeds get lodged up in trees.

[virtualpalm]

(Dave-Vero @ Mar. 25 2008,01:57)

QUOTE

Yes, Jody needs to come over for dinner.

Greg Holzman was probably correct in suggesting that in any particular location, local palms have leaves imitating those of the local zamia species, which are probably poisonous to local herbivores.  Leaf mimicry is one of those things that's been suggested for a long time, but is very hard to pin down.  

The tropical forest zamias appear to have very effective chemical defenses against being eaten, flexy above-ground stems that can survive being hit by falling branches, excellent ability to cope with the dry season and/or salt water flooding, and effective pollinators.  Not that zamias seem to be super-fussy about who does the pollinating.  In other words, they're living and evolving in thoroughly modern environments, and are successfully competing for sunlight and nutrients against all sorts of seed plants.  Zamia pseudoparasitica, the epiphyte, vividly demonstrates the drought tolerance.  What's really puzzling is how its (presumably big) seeds get lodged up in trees.

Greg and I have spent a fair amount of time together in the jungles of Panama. I have seen this "mimicry" in numerous cycad habitats in Honduras as well.

Regarding your last question: Zamia pseudoparasitica lives in cloud forest habitat, so it really never has to worry about drying out due to the relatively constant mist that occurs in such areas. In addition, its roots typically grow into the root masses of other epiphytes, which tend to maintain a relatively constant moisture level. As for seed disperal in this species, fruit bats have been seen removing seeds from ripe cones and flying away with them. I have been trying to get a motion-activated camera put up into a tree next to a developing cone; I have the camera, but now we need to find (1) a suitable cone and (2) someone willing to climb the tree and position the camera. Any takers?!

Jody

[Jeff Searle]

(edleigh7 @ Mar. 24 2008,22:22)

QUOTE

(Jeff Searle @ Mar. 21 2008,19:16)

QUOTE

While in the same area of yard, I noticed this Cycas tansachana flushing out a new set of leaves. This plant has not coned yet.

Jeff, this is slightly off topic, I know, but is that a birds nest Anthurium to the left of that cycad? If so which one?

Hmm OK the photo didn't appear but it is the 9th photo from the start of the thread

Hello Ed,

      Yes, it is a birds nest anthurium. It's a fairly new variety that is now in tissue culture. The different thing about this one, is that it flushes purplish new leaves which is pretty. I can't remember the var. name though.

Jeff

[Jeff Searle]

(virtualpalm @ Mar. 25 2008,06:04)

QUOTE

(Dave-Vero @ Mar. 25 2008,01:57)

QUOTE

Yes, Jody needs to come over for dinner.

Greg Holzman was probably correct in suggesting that in any particular location, local palms have leaves imitating those of the local zamia species, which are probably poisonous to local herbivores.  Leaf mimicry is one of those things that's been suggested for a long time, but is very hard to pin down.  

The tropical forest zamias appear to have very effective chemical defenses against being eaten, flexy above-ground stems that can survive being hit by falling branches, excellent ability to cope with the dry season and/or salt water flooding, and effective pollinators.  Not that zamias seem to be super-fussy about who does the pollinating.  In other words, they're living and evolving in thoroughly modern environments, and are successfully competing for sunlight and nutrients against all sorts of seed plants.  Zamia pseudoparasitica, the epiphyte, vividly demonstrates the drought tolerance.  What's really puzzling is how its (presumably big) seeds get lodged up in trees.

Greg and I have spent a fair amount of time together in the jungles of Panama. I have seen this "mimicry" in numerous cycad habitats in Honduras as well.

Regarding your last question: Zamia pseudoparasitica lives in cloud forest habitat, so it really never has to worry about drying out due to the relatively constant mist that occurs in such areas. In addition, its roots typically grow into the root masses of other epiphytes, which tend to maintain a relatively constant moisture level. As for seed disperal in this species, fruit bats have been seen removing seeds from ripe cones and flying away with them. I have been trying to get a motion-activated camera put up into a tree next to a developing cone; I have the camera, but now we need to find (1) a suitable cone and (2) someone willing to climb the tree and position the camera. Any takers?!

Jody

Jody,

    Any takers? To climb a tree? Sure, will I be compensated for my travel expenses?  I have been down there twice, it's been several years, but I would always like to go back. I saw these Zamia psuedo.'s while there, the large leaf Z. skinneri's and another that I don't have a name for.

Jeff

[XYZ]

Coupla observations on an interesting thread:

I would definitely take issue with both the "mimicry" theory and the "fact" that tropical forest zamias are effectively protected from leaf predation by their primary leaf and stem predators - insects.

Mammalian, avian and reptilian leaf predators are generally rare in the understory of northern Neotropical forests (red brocket deer and green iguanas would be the only ones that immediately spring to mind), so the lack of visible damage may be more a function of their low numbers than the lack of palatability of these things to them.

Like anyone else who has spent time in the region's lowland wet forests, I have seen plenty of evidence that lepidopteran larva from several genera have no apparent issue with ravaging both newly-flushed and fairly firm leaves of a number of Chiapan, Central American and Peruvian zamias...likewise, the chemical defenses present in the seeds of sympatric understory palms such as Chamaedorea spp.and Gaussia spp. do not appear to be an effective deterrent to seed predators such as weevils and small arboreal rodents. Depending on the region and season, entire seed crops of these palms may be lost to these seed predators.

Pseudos occur from the beach in Veraguas all the way into very wet cloud forest at ca. 1,000 m in Coclé, Veraguas and BdT...from what I have read and intuit, larger frugivorous phyllostomid bats are probably the primary dispersal agent for their seeds. You can probably set up a quick n' dirty remote sensing project using a Dale beam and a camera with a potato-masher flash set up down low...there are plenty of accessible, coning-sized pseudos in places like Omar Torrijos NP so that the issue of acending into an emergent becomes moot.

A very good thread on the nitty gritty of bat photography, including some caveats to "do no harm" when picturing them: http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=001utR

For a really good paper that documents exactly how specialized some frugivorous Neotropical bats can be (in Panamá), I suggest you see:  Norberto P. Giannini, Elisabeth K. V. Kalko (2004). Trophic structure in a large assemblage of phyllostomid bats in Panamá. Oikos 105 (2), 209–220. This paper makes clear that their are different fruit and nectar specialists in this guild. Given its distribution through several ecosystems, coupled with my own work with Neotropical bats, when all is said and done I would guess that more than one Artibeus sp. will probably be found to play stork to pseudos.

Cheerio,

Jay

[LJG]

It is threads like these that really bring out the fact I am not as smart as I think I am in the realm of plants! My brain hurts.

[Dave-Vero]

In trying to figure out Zamia pseudoparasitica without having seen it in the wild (bad idea), I was thinking too much of epiphytes that have to put up with long periods of minimal water.  Cloud forests offer special opportunities, for sure.

Jody, Jay--thanks for the batology.

It's great that the middle American cycad flora and its habitats/denizens are being documented so competently and enthusiastically.

[edleigh7]

(Jeff Searle @ Mar. 25 2008,07:35)

QUOTE

(edleigh7 @ Mar. 24 2008,22:22)

QUOTE

(Jeff Searle @ Mar. 21 2008,19:16)

QUOTE

While in the same area of yard, I noticed this Cycas tansachana flushing out a new set of leaves. This plant has not coned yet.

Jeff, this is slightly off topic, I know, but is that a birds nest Anthurium to the left of that cycad? If so which one?

Hmm OK the photo didn't appear but it is the 9th photo from the start of the thread

Hello Ed,

      Yes, it is a birds nest anthurium. It's a fairly new variety that is now in tissue culture. The different thing about this one, is that it flushes purplish new leaves which is pretty. I can't remember the var. name though.

Jeff

Thanks for that Jeff. I wish we something like that over here!!

[Walter John]

Looking for a thread to plop this pic in I chose this Zamia beauty. Remember I had a bismarkia leaf falling across my path and I said one day I had to remove it ? Well I did and also this allowed vision once again of the stocko cycad of all time, the Zamia furfuracea, commonly called the cardboard plant or sago. By the way, has this been renamed to Z.maritima ?

[Walter John]

What are weeds really, usually something that grows fast and out of control like these Zamias for instance, whatever species they are. Do you know ?

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck]

(Wal @ Apr. 10 2008,05:07)

QUOTE

What are weeds really, usually something that grows fast and out of control like these Zamias for instance, whatever species they are. Do you know ?

Hi Wal,

I'll send you some spray, or I can do it for you.

as long as there not up in a tree, well theres a hit for

the name of the 'sp' pictured. :laugh:  :laugh:

Cheers Man,

Mikey.  

[virtualpalm]

Wal, the first two photos look like Z. pseudoparasitica, while the third one looks like Z. elegantissima (possibly Z. fairchildiana). Any idea where they originate?

Jody

[Dave-Vero]

I plopped two little Zamia vasquezii into a bed this weekend.  Both from Tom Broome, so they've got to be good!

[aussiearoids]

(virtualpalm @ Apr. 14 2008,21:43)

QUOTE

Wal, the first two photos look like Z. pseudoparasitica, while the third one looks like Z. elegantissima (possibly Z. fairchildiana). Any idea where they originate?

Jody

 I would say those Cycads come from a utopian location ...

nice lot of cones there , another big batch of little parasites .

[Neofolis]

Great discussion and great photo's.  Whilst Zamias are not generally my favourite Cycads, I was rather taken with the Zamia  soconuscensis at Fairchild, quite unlike most Zamias that I had previously seen.  I really like many of the Ceratozamias and Lepidozamias though, particularly C.kuesteriana, which I keep seeing at Kew and also saw a few at Fairchild, but with their CITES status, they are impossible to get hold of here without paying a fortune for importing with lots of paperwork.

[jdapalms]

Jeff,

Your Zamia's look great, Z inermis is one of my favorites. I have planted a bunch of them here in Hawaii.

I have some Zamia pictures below that I would like to see if Tom, Jody or anyone else can help ID.

Zamia soconuscensis is another one I like a lot also.

Jerry

I acquired this one with out a name

Zamia soconuscensis

Zamia skinneri ?

[virtualpalm]

Jerry, the first plant looks to me like either Zamia acuminata (Panama) or possibly Z. lindleyi (Panama). How big is it? Do you know anything about its geographic origin?

As for the plicate-leaved plant, is it red- or green-emergent?

Jody

[Jeff Searle]

Jerry,

Nice plants. We'll talk more on them in Costa Rica coming up. I still have a few more species from the yard to up-load.

Jeff

[Jeff Searle]

BUMP....

I thought I would bring this thread back up since Steve in San Diego just recently bought a few species. There's lots of good pictures to enjoy and many species mentioned.

Jeff

[Dave-Vero]

A good example of being careful about what you wish for. This Zamia furfuracea might be as old as the 1960's-looking bank building. With its crown of new leaves, this is a happy plant. Sort of a one-plant thicket, in fact. Location: Indialantic, Fla.

[edbrown_III]

Heres a few in Jax, you can grow some of them in the pot,

[edbrown_III]

Z neurophyllida

[edbrown_III]

another one

[8er-moni]

Hello!

I will continue with my few plants:

Cycas revoluta

Cycas rumphii

Macrozamia communis

Cycas siamensis silver

[Brad Mondel]

just got a zamia floridania for 6 $ its beutifull and has a female cone as well

[Gbarce]

Have you ever produced seeds?

Any attempt in hybridizing them?

[siriyos]

And last one showing a female cone.

me too ...zamia are favorite cycads.

[siriyos]