Livistona saribus (Taraw Palm) Cold Tolerance

[_Keith]

I am in a warm Zone 9a, with exception of maybe 6 hours total over the last decade we have been just a cool Zone 9b.

I am considering this palm Livistona saribus (Taraw Palm). I have seen it rated and where from 18 to 26 degrees. Does anyone have a cold experience with this baby.

Keith

[MattyB]

I'm curious about this one too Keith.  I've heard that this Livistona might prefer some shade and moist conditions instead of out in the baking sun and periodic drought.  Any info on that too would be appreciated.

[Davidl]

I think they do much better in the shade. I had one that was very nice until it grew to where it received more sun and now its in palm heaven (or other) because it was to ugly to me to live   .

[Eric in Orlando]

They prefer some shade when young but eventually can handle sun but could be grown in all shade. They like moist soil and can even tolerate flooding.

As for cold hardiness, there are 2 forms;

The green petiole form is the one usually encountered and is the hardy form. It is good into the low 20sF and possibly to around 18F.

The maroon form gets damaged in the mid 20sF and probably will die in the low 20sF. It looks the same other than the petioles are maroon colored. It was known as L. hasseltii for awhile but lumped into L. saribus. From what I have heard, the green form is found wild at higher elevations and the maroon one at lower. The spines on the petiole are large and resembles shark teeth.

green petiole form

maroon petiole form

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

My green one took 25 without damage.  It's in wet soil in full sun and has been frosted pretty good each of the last 2 winters.  At the Bamboo Farm in Savannah, the temps were around 20f twice this winter and the L saribus still look fine.  They are sheltered, but it was cold enough to scorch the W. robusta in the same bed.  I'd say they are pretty reliable in Zone 9, but might not endure the occasional arctic outbreak that pushes temps to zone 8 category.  Their vertical growth is quick in the shade (as are many Livistonas), but they are more beefy in the sun.  Never checked to see if the sun grown plants have the same number of fronds as the shade grown, but my bet is that they do.

[Creekside]

This is one of my favorite palms!  The spines on the petioles are gorgeous, fat and twisty, and people are always asking about the dried up (removed) petiole bases I have displayed.   Especially when young, they thrive in constantly moist soil and shade.  Cold-hardy and fast growing, what a great palm.  I have some 7-gals that need new homes...that's another thread...

[steve 9atx]

I have one of the green form that's been in the ground about four years from a seedling.  It's in wet, mellow soil and partial shade.  It's slow for me, only maybe two fronds a year.  I guess it's around 6' tall overall but that's all petiole, no trunk yet.  I haven't had anything but the mildest and briefest freeze to test its hardiness.

Steve

[M@ximus]

Mine  have  had  only  few  demages  on leaves  at -6,5/-7c    two  times last  winter, and  several  night  below  zero

Strong  palm

Best  M@x

[edbrown_III]

To add to commentary.  

I had the green form out as a 3 gallon new plant in 89,   it survived 4 days in teens 16 17 etc.  they are pretty tough.  

Red form has seen 21F with significant damage but that was during 99 when we had day after day of freezes ( 2 weeks) so they were damaged much .. but didnt have significant damage when it has seen 21F.

I would encourage you to plant both forms... I have them as out in open and understory .   reds are about 6 foot of trunk.   The green (from 89) is close to 25-30 feet of trunk just behind the washingtonas I planted then

Best wishes

Ed

[iamjv]

I have a green form and it took 23F this winter without any damage at all.  It also took the 2-day ice storm we had last year with no problems.  Jv

[iwan]

Great comments Eric, first I have seen relating petiole color to hardiness.  I love the spines on these guys.  

I was at Phil Nickel's nursery near Bakersfield a couple weeks ago and saw an in-ground community bed of seedlings that caught my eye as 90% of them were burned or dead.  I asked what they were and he said Saribus.  They looked like they were 2-3 year old seedlings.  Phil had at least four days at 18F in Jan 07 and extended freezing for about three weeks.  I didn't ask if they were victims of last year or this year.

[Kathryn]

Get one now Keith! I've had mine in the ground for a few years. It hasn't seen temps below the upper 20's, but I know it can take well into the lower 20's. It wasn't even phased by the weird snow I had a few years ago.

[_Keith]

(MattyB @ Apr. 09 2008,11:03)

QUOTE

I'm curious about this one too Keith.  I've heard that this Livistona might prefer some shade and moist conditions instead of out in the baking sun and periodic drought.  Any info on that too would be appreciated.

Matty, sounds like an easy one for you, other than shade.  I seem to remember you had limited spaces in shade.  Or have I not been paying attention.

[giuseppe]

livistona saribus,this plant grows to Naples-Italy without problems

[Alberto]

I have 10 L.saribus growing in full sun. They have that chunky look ,with very short petioles and some of the leaves look a bit yellow sometimes. Maybe I´ll try to transplant some to a more shady place next spring. How easy/difficult are they to transplant?

Another question: How long it takes for a sun grown L.saribus to form a trunk? Are the shade grown palms faster???

Edited May 3, 2008 by Alberto

[_Keith]

This is one of my favorite palms!  The spines on the petioles are gorgeous, fat and twisty, and people are always asking about the dried up (removed) petiole bases I have displayed.   Especially when young, they thrive in constantly moist soil and shade.  Cold-hardy and fast growing, what a great palm.  I have some 7-gals that need new homes...that's another thread...

We are still a few days away from you, but we are in Florida and making our way, the long way that is. I don't intend on returning home without my saribus and hopefully a few others too.

[Creekside]

This is one of my favorite palms!  The spines on the petioles are gorgeous, fat and twisty, and people are always asking about the dried up (removed) petiole bases I have displayed.   Especially when young, they thrive in constantly moist soil and shade.  Cold-hardy and fast growing, what a great palm.  I have some 7-gals that need new homes...that's another thread...

We are still a few days away from you, but we are in Florida and making out way, the long way that is. I don't intend on returning home without my saribus and hopefully a few others too.

A man on a mission!

[Alberto]

I have 10 L.saribus growing in full sun. They have that chunky look ,with very short petioles and some of the leaves look a bit yellow sometimes. Maybe I´ll try to transplant some to a more shady place next spring. How easy/difficult are they to transplant?

Another question: How long it takes for a sun grown L.saribus to form a trunk? Are the shade grown palms faster???

.....Somedody?.........

[edbrown_III]

I have 10 L.saribus growing in full sun. They have that chunky look ,with very short petioles and some of the leaves look a bit yellow sometimes. Maybe I´ll try to transplant some to a more shady place next spring. How easy/difficult are they to transplant?

Another question: How long it takes for a sun grown L.saribus to form a trunk? Are the shade grown palms faster???

.....Somedody?.........

from my experience about 5 years or so to get a decent trunk. I have one that is 19 years old and about 25 feet tall (8m). It was in full sun and exposed \to the worst of freezes. They will stay green but are heavy feeders.

I have about 20 as shade understory ( 10 years old and about a meter of trunk)

Best wishes to you and yours,

Ed

[Alberto]

Thanks Ed!!!

[edbrown_III]

Alberto,

Here are photos this is the large one planted as a 3 gallon in 1989 full sun and frost

[edbrown_III]

Heres a photo of plants planted as understory a decade more or less. They are about a meter and some change to the crown. This has been under heavy canopy-- I have been clearign the last 2 years to get things better

Best regards,

ED

[edbrown_III]

see upload

[spockvr6]

This is one of my favorite palms!  The spines on the petioles are gorgeous, fat and twisty, and people are always asking about the dried up (removed) petiole bases I have displayed.   Especially when young, they thrive in constantly moist soil and shade.  Cold-hardy and fast growing, what a great palm.  I have some 7-gals that need new homes...that's another thread...

We are still a few days away from you, but we are in Florida and making out way, the long way that is. I don't intend on returning home without my saribus and hopefully a few others too.

A man on a mission!

Yes Catherine...I think hes going to have a jungle of these palms! I believe he got a few from you, and I gave him one as well.

[mike in kurtistown]

I'm bumping this old topic so that a non-member can look at it. Liv saribus was bulletproof in central Florida.

[Austinpalm]

I would be interested in getting a 1-gallon marroon petioled form of Liv. saribus. Anyone have 1 they would like to trade or sell?

[Kailua_Krish]

Just wanted to chime in and say that for me these hae been very easy to germinate. I have had 14/15 germinate within 2.5 months at summer outdoor temps.

Krishna

[_Keith]

Well, we have turned the corner on summer here, with September being little more than a week away. My 3 L. saribus are hanging in there. With our climate, they will get another good 3 more months of growing weather ahead, but their first summer was a very tough one, with a drought until just a couple of weeks ago. I hope they can gather strength before winter.

[JLeVert]

I am in a warm Zone 9a, with exception of maybe 6 hours total over the last decade we have been just a cool Zone 9b.  

I am considering this palm Livistona saribus (Taraw Palm).    I have seen it rated and where from 18 to 26 degrees.  Does anyone have a cold experience with this baby.

Keith

Keith,

I have tried both types of L. saribus here in Augusta, GA zone 8. The one with black spines didn't make it, but I have three with the green spines (petiole) and they are doing well in semi-shade. The Livistona that has done the best for me is L. nitida. It has been out for about five years and is growing well. At the Bamboo Farm and Coastal Gardens in Savannah, GA the following Livistonas are growing and doing well: L. nitida, L. chinensis, L. saribus, L. decipiens, L. drudei. I remember Eric Schmidt at Leu Gardens remarking that Livistona grew faster if it starts in the shade and can then grow into the sun. Anyone else have that experience?

[DoomsDave]

L. saribus are much tougher here in La La Land than their homeland indicates them to be.

At least as hardy as L. chinensis, according to a high white horse souse . . . .

[Gallop]

Well, we have turned the corner on summer here, with September being little more than a week away. My 3 L. saribus are hanging in there. With our climate, they will get another good 3 more months of growing weather ahead, but their first summer was a very tough one, with a drought until just a couple of weeks ago. I hope they can gather strength before winter.

Don't sweat it Keith, they're extreamly hardy. I have both varities as well as Livistona Mariae. I recieved these plants bare root and they haven't stopped growing last 2years. I've also planted a x from seabreeze palms Livistona Mariiae x L. muelleri ,they're referring to it as a stained glass palm. The plant has been in the ground now for about a month. Will see how it does. Pensacola Fl Edited August 23, 2008 by Gallop

[steve 9atx]

I always though I had the green petiole form, until I was cleaning out the ferns at the base of this palm and voila:

Finally, four years from a seedling, the growth rate is picking up - it's working on its third new frond of the summer.

Steve

[mnorell]

Keith--

I've had three specimens of the green-petiole form in the ground here in Natchez for 3-4 years. This is probably the most spectacular palm I have in the ground (well, maybe the Bismarckia is just as spectacular in its own way!). The only damage I have seen is when temps have reached low 20s (23F) and particularly this last year when we had two freak snowstorms (at temps 33-34F) where snow stayed on the fronds for several hours, just a little superficial damage in places on a few of the upper leaves, it was really not very noticeable at all. This was only on the specimen I have under open sky. Those under canopy have never flinched despite episodes over 15 hours below freezing. They don't mind our cool winter temps at all (about 42/60F average for January).

I put these in the ground as small plants about 9-12" tall I think in spring 2005. One interesting thing is that the specimen under open sky (but still surrounded by vegetation) was planted in a raised bed in heavily amended, well-drained soil. It has grown rather quickly and is now 6' tall with magnificent, huge leaves (and the shark's teeth to match!). The other two were placed in shadier areas in less amended soil and never really watered even in periods of drought. They are much smaller, perhaps only 2' tall at present! So I think the secret is to give them good, rich soil in a raised bed with at least a couple of hours of sun for faster, lush growth.

Interestingly, when comparing this with L. chinensis (I have many in different situations) I can say that saribus "green petiole" shows less damage than chinensis in our typical winters here (and you're probably 3 degrees warmer). Though I've found chinensis' cold-response to be rather variable between specimens, they have the habit of suffering a "broken" spear (band of necrotic tissue that snaps as it emerges from the crown), this happens to a few of my specimens even in shade. (I also have that problem with L. nitida.) This has never happened with saribus. Under open sky, chinensis usually suffers a decent amount of leaf-damage with low 20s, whereas with saribus it's barely noticeable under similar situations. So I'd say the green-petiole form is at least as leaf-hardy as chinensis and possibly slightly tougher.

Another note on petiole coloration: I bought my plants from Redlands Nursery in Homestead. I specifically requested the green-petiole form, and I was told that there were a mix of green and red within the same seedling-batch. He cherry-picked the green-petiole specimens for me. I'm curious if anyone else has had this experience with a mixture of colorations in one group of seedlings; he may have been mistaken in case that lot of seedlings was from multiple seed-batches, though he indicated otherwise.

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the occasional devastating freeze since there's little doubt that this palm's most beautiful stage is its adolescence, where the bud is still below ground but the leaves are huge and more than just eye-catching. When these palms trunk and get large they look a little more like other Livistonas. If a 10F freeze hits and they succumb, you can have the joy of planting a new, young plant and enjoying those big leaves all over again!

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Bump! I've been talked into trying one of these out. I really like the looks of it. Before I saw this post, i followed the PACSOA recommendations (http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Livistona/saribus.html) which says

"Sunny, moist, but well drained position."

But then, I see Matty's comment which makes me doubt where I just planted mine. My hillside is sandy and not really the best when it comes to something that would be hungry for water all the time. Where it's now gets scorching hot and bakes in the afternoon sun, but there is shade until about 2PM. During our 90-100F spells it can get pretty dry up there since it's a West facing slope.

I've got shadier spots with heavier, wetter soil, should I move it?

I'm curious about this one too Keith. I've heard that this Livistona might prefer some shade and moist conditions instead of out in the baking sun and periodic drought. Any info on that too would be appreciated.

[_Keith]

Wow, a bump from the past. My last 5 years experience is that these palms are pretty bullet proof. They survived a 15 year record freeze and laughed. They survived an all time record drought and laughed. This year, they survived record rains and totally waterlogged soils for months on end. All with no supplemental help after 2 years of being established. I think it would take either a bulldozer or a meat ax to kill them, and I am not to sure about the meat ax. Good luck. And they are beautiful. I will try to post some pics, but you can see one in the artsy picture thread behind the small statue.

[Stevetoad]

Axel. I have one that is in full inland sun. It says pretty moist but its seen 113f with no problems. And has seen 26f this winter with no issues. It grows through winter too. I think in shade they get bigger nicer leaves though. It seems to be one of my tougher palms.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Axel. I have one that is in full inland sun. It says pretty moist but its seen 113f with no problems. And has seen 26f this winter with no issues. It grows through winter too. I think in shade they get bigger nicer leaves though. It seems to be one of my tougher palms.

Thanks Steve, that's good to know. It may be challenging to keep it moist where it's at, but from a landscaping point of view it's in the right place, I'll just have to beef up the irrigation. Now all I need to figure out is how to keep my toddler from grabbing the shark teeth this palm has. By the time it makes a trunk high enough to keep him from reaching the crown he'll be in high school.

Wow, a bump from the past. My last 5 years experience is that these palms are pretty bullet proof. They survived a 15 year record freeze and laughed. They survived an all time record drought and laughed. This year, they survived record rains and totally waterlogged soils for months on end. All with no supplemental help after 2 years of being established. I think it would take either a bulldozer or a meat ax to kill them, and I am not to sure about the meat ax. Good luck. And they are beautiful. I will try to post some pics, but you can see one in the artsy picture thread behind the small statue.

Keith, yes, please post some pictures. Mine is already quite nice but still small. I just love the looks of all of the livistonas, this may be one of the genus of palms I may end up collecting. The lime green leaf color of the saribus is really neat.

[Alberto]

Bump! I've been talked into trying one of these out. I really like the looks of it. Before I saw this post, i followed the PACSOA recommendations (http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Livistona/saribus.html) which says

"Sunny, moist, but well drained position."

But then, I see Matty's comment which makes me doubt where I just planted mine. My hillside is sandy and not really the best when it comes to something that would be hungry for water all the time. Where it's now gets scorching hot and bakes in the afternoon sun, but there is shade until about 2PM. During our 90-100F spells it can get pretty dry up there since it's a West facing slope.

I've got shadier spots with heavier, wetter soil, should I move it?

I'm curious about this one too Keith. I've heard that this Livistona might prefer some shade and moist conditions instead of out in the baking sun and periodic drought. Any info on that too would be appreciated.

My best growing L.saribus is growing on a very wet place were the rain water streams .

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

It's clear it wants wet feet, it's getting moved.

[Alberto]

It is also clearly frost hardier than L.chinensis.