Can you grow palms and cycads while gambling?

[Phil]

Growing palms and cycads in Las Vegas has always interested me because of its extremes in weather. Winters are very cold and summers extremely hot and dry. I use to think Las Vegas would be similar to Phoenix. But, it is not. I think it is more harsh. I'd love to hear comments. I realize that the sun is often the problem, so make comments for shade or partial shade growing. I don't know if we have many people with experience for Nevada, but I'd love to get more information on successes there. Or, if you're from a colder part of Arizona, comment as well. Thanks.

Phil

[PalmGuyWC]

Phil,

I visited Palm Springs and Las Vegas in the late winter of this year, and I'm always keenly aware of what palms grow where. Naturally, Palm Springs was beautiful with the temps in the mid 70's and it's about the palmest city on earth, but mostly Washingtonias with some Phoenix dactilifera scattered around. I only saw one Bismarkia, but I'm sure there are more there. I did see a few Brahea armatas, but not nearly enough.

When we arrived in Las Vegas it was much cooler, but still comfortable. I really didn't ride around in the neighborhoods of Vegas, but Las Vegas boulevard is mind boggling with some of the most spectacular display of palms. We stayed at the Mirage which has the best palm display of palms in Las Vegas. They feature CIDP, dactlifera, butias, Washingtonias, Chamaerops, and I saw a couple of beautiful Brahea claras with weepy fronds and very silver. They also feature Cycas revoluta which are growing all over the palce and in full sun. This puzzles me because C. revoluta can burn in my hot summer climate, but I'm sure it gets much hotter in Las Vegas. All of theirs look beautiful and green while one of mine got scortched a couple of years ago and it still hasn't thrown out any new fronds.

Along Las Vegas Boulevard they play it safe and only use palms that will take the climate. They don't want any cold burned palms growing in front of those multi-million dollar hotels.

I was flying into Las Vegas after the 89/90 freeze and I remember they had just planted P. dactilifera around the terminal the year or two before the freeze. I have no idea how cold it got there but the palms were damaged and it took a couple of years before they recovered, but they all did with no perminant damage. The spectacular plantings along Las Vegas Boulevard had not been put in at that time.

I was flying into Orlando, Corpus Cristi, and Phoenix during that period and there was severe damage from the freeze everywhere I went. The entire Unites States was zapped by that freeze and parts of Mexico too.

I'm sure there are many palms that will grow in Las Vegas, such as some of the Braheas and maybe even Sabals if they got part shade, but along the Strip and around hotels they only want the safe stuff, because it has to look good all the time. About Cycads, I don't know, but they do use a lot of C. revoluta and I think that's the only Cycad I saw.

Inside some of the hotels there are huge ateriums studded with tropical palms, and there are magnificant orchid displays. I really wonder where they found them and so many. I imagine an upscale florist could make a fortune in Las Vegas. Some of the flower arrangements are truely works of art. I left Las Vegas feeling good, although I had gained 5 lbs and my wallet was empty.

Dick

[freakypalmguy]

The only cycads I had in the ground at the time of the freeze 06/07 were C. revolutas and one Dioon edule (wonder who I got that one from? ). Neither were the slightest bit affected by 22F. My climate is no where near as extreme as LV, but I do get up to around 110 in the summer at times and obviously sub freezing in the winter.

This year my low was 27 with many days of light frost and very few of my cycads were effected. (some spellings might be wrong)

Cycas taitungesis, revoluta, thoursaii(showed just a touch of frost burn)

Dioon edule (regular and palma sola), spinulosum(showed a touch of frost burn), merolae (flushed in the middle of the frost and was unhurt), rezedowski,

Encephalartos ferox, trisp., horridus, altensteinii, lanatus, longifolius (green, blue, and jubertina), lehmanii (flushed during the cold and new flush was undamaged),natalensis, natalensis X horridus

Hope this info helps Phil. I will add to the list if I can think of others.

Matt

[Phil]

Dick and Matt,

Thanks for the feedback. Locally, I know of people who basically had little damage to cycads at 22 degrees last winter (07). Damage seen with cycads at these low temps was to leaves only, with new flushes later last summer. Palms were hurt more. We got to 25 degrees at the nursery and no cycads showed any damage outdoors. Damage was limited to Royals, Howeas and Archontophoenix species. I'm hoping someone from NV will answer up, especially regarding cycads.

Phil

[Urban Rainforest]

Dick and Matt,

Thanks for the feedback. Locally, I know of people who basically had little damage to cycads at 22 degrees last winter (07). Damage seen with cycads at these low temps was to leaves only, with new flushes later last summer. Palms were hurt more. We got to 25 degrees at the nursery and no cycads showed any damage outdoors. Damage was limited to Royals, Howeas and Archontophoenix species. I'm hoping someone from NV will answer up, especially regarding cycads.

Phil

Phil, We just got back from Vegas tonight and all the palms there are looking good! That said I believe there are many more palm and Cycad Species that would grow well there but in the city of instant gratification most people are looking for large palms with many feet of trunk. Also I believe that it is a lack of knowledge of these rare species by commercial landscapers. I believe Bismarkia, Psuedophoenix, Some of the Copernicias like Prunifera, Hyphanae and many more would make it on the Vegas strip because of it's heat island effect in the winter. Also many Encephalartos (especially blues), some Dioons, Cycas and Macrozamias would grow just fine there. The Brahea Claras there are stunning!

Steve

[PalmGuyWC]

I was surprised that I didn't see any Bismarkias in Vegas. They would be stunning growing alongside one of the tall buildings with a dark background. I suppose the reason there are none there is because there are no large specimans available in the West. The way they throw money around, they could eaisly be replaced, if cold damaged, if they were available. As Steve stated there are a few beautiful Brahea claras and I think they use those for silver and they are much more cold tollerant. I don't recall seeing many Sabals there or Washingtonia filiferas, but I'm sure they are there.

Dick

[Phil]

I was hoping that someone who was an enthusiast and actually lived in a colder (winter) desert area would add comments. But, perhaps we have no such person in this group.

Phil

[PalmGuyWC]

Don't we have some palm growers in Palm Springs? It would be interesting to hear their comments too and what grows there.

Dick

[Eric in Orlando]

I've been out to LV several times recently. As mentioned all the palms I see are Washingtonia filifera, W. robusta, Phoenix dactylifera, P. canariensis, Brahea armata, Trachycarpus fortunei, Chamaerops humilis, and Butia capitata. I did see a few Syagrus romanzoffiana and Phoenix roebelenii but they had a loot of colld damage.

My sister lives in Sieraa Vista, AZ. It is SE of Tucson but at a higher elevation so colder, zone 8b. There mostly both species of Washingonia, Phoenix canariensis, Butia capitata, Trachycarpus fortunei, Chamaerops and a few P. dactylifera.

My sister has 2 W. robusta in her yard and a single trunk Chamaerops. The W. robusta get burned every winter but grow out of it. Heres the palms in Jan. 2007 with snow;

[Eric in Orlando]

Also, been up to Lake Powell, AZ a couple times, its on the Utah border by Page, AZ. The resort on the lake has a few young W. filifera growing. I think this area is borderline zone 7b/8a. Lake Powell is one of the most incredible places I have been.

[palmazon]

Every palm and/or cycad I grow is a gamble...

[FRITO]

Eric nice photos. thanks for sharing these. Lake powell water levels look low. Is this a water resource for locals?

Palms in harsh climates especially desert type are fasicanating to me. There was a member on the board from El Paso, TX. I believe the climate there is similar to Vegas?

[Mark_NoVA]

There are some very knowledgeable people from the US SW that participate on the Hardy Palms board, http://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/ . You could probably get some good feedback repeating this question there-

Mark

[Eric in Orlando]

Eric nice photos. thanks for sharing these. Lake powell water levels look low. Is this a water resource for locals?

Palms in harsh climates especially desert type are fasicanating to me. There was a member on the board from El Paso, TX. I believe the climate there is similar to Vegas?

I think Las Vegas is slightly warmer than El Paso. My sister used to live in EP before they moved to AZ

The water levels at Lake Powell have been very low. Those photos were taken 2 years ago, the last time I was there. This winter they had high snowfall in the mountains so the levels have risen way up. I think it is just water storage for further down the Colorado River. Its just an incredible area.

[jfkotas]

Phil,

Some years ago I got my brother, who lives in Las Vegas, hooked on cycads. He currently has E.horridus, E.lehmannii, & E.arenarius in the ground in his south facing garden and a D.spinulosum & C.revoluta in pots. All have done quite well despite the summer heat, winter cold, and the propensity of his wife to overwater everything (which did in a natalensis X woodii hybrid that rotted unfortunately). All have flushed at least once a year, and the last time I was there this past March I noted that all plants looked very healthy. I think one key to his success was insuring the caudex was buried under ground, which protects the plant from the extreme temperatures.

Many of the casino resorts have C.revolutas (and only sagos, it seems) in their landscapes. I wish they would explore additional cycad options, especially Encephalartos to enhance their gardens. Maybe this is an opportunity for cycad nurseries such as yours to help them along in that direction.

Jonathan Kotas

Moorpark, CA

[NBTX11]

El Paso, TX:

January 57.0° F 33.0° F

February 63.0° F 38.0° F

March 70.0° F 44.0° F

April 78.0° F 51.0° F

May 87.0° F 61.0° F

June 95.0° F 69.0° F

July 94.0° F 72.0° F

August 92.0° F 70.0° F

September 87.0° F 64.0° F

October 78.0° F 52.0° F

November 66.0° F 40.0° F

December 57.0° F 33.0° F

Las Vegas, NV:

January 60.0° F 28.0°

February 66.0° F 33.0° F

March 73.0° F 39.0° F

April 82.0° F 46.0° F

May 91.0° F 55.0° F

June 102.0° F 62.0° F

July 108.0° F 68.0° F

August 105.0° F 67.0° F

September 98.0° F 59.0° F

October 85.0° F 46.0° F

November 69.0° F 35.0° F

December 60.0° F 28.0° F

About the same in winter, LV quite a bit hotter in summer

Edited May 6, 2008 by syersj

[sonoranfans]

vegas is about 5 F cooler than phoenix in winter(coldest day), perhaps a bit less in summer. The heat island effect is not near as large in vegas, much less concrete than phoenix. Bizzies wont make it, queens may get killed by a 15 year low. The all time low in vegas is 8F, phoenix is 16F. These events were long ago(>40 years), before the heat island effect existed in both cities. Vegas will probably never see below 15 F again.

[PalmGuyWC]

Most people don't think of Utah as a place where you might find palms, but I'm told they grow in St. George and Hurricane on the southern border of Utah. There is a palm grower in St. George that moved from the SF Bay Area.

Dick

[velutina]

Hi, this is my first post on this forum. I am new to palms. I have lived in Salt Lake City, UT all my life, but am moving to Las Vegas in a month. I have made the trek between Vegas and Salt Lake many times. St. George, Utah does have palms but they get cold damage most winters. They were hit particularly hard 06/07. Vegas is 5-10 degrees warmer than St. George during the winter I believe. Anyways, thanks for the good info on this thread. I'm looking to start growing my palm collection once i'm in Vegas. I hope a Vegas local chimes in and can give info on the more rare species that do well there. Thanks

[Phil]

Jonathon,

Thanks for the feedback of your family member's success in Las Vegas with cycads. Yes, I have clients there and we've been giving them a try. Regarding burying the caudex, I've recommended heaping wood shavings around the caudex on the coldest days. I think this has the same effect. And, if overwatered later in the year, the exposed trunk might protect the trunk from rot during the warmer periods. I've come to realize that the heat is not an enemy. Direct Vegas sun can be too harsh. Cold is the biggest problem and one has to have a program for protecting the plants.

Phil