I HATE CANADIAN AIR MASSES!!!

[BobbyinNY]

We got this blast of High Pressure this morning from Canada that sent my temps tumbling into the high 40's for a low and only getting to about 72f today... Very rare for Sept - more like Late Oct... It's only supposed to last till tonight, but I've been hauling all the sensitive stuff inside..... ugggh

[Neofolis]

Never mind Bobby our average temperatures for now are 19°C/66°F high and 9°C/48°F low.  Fortunately, it has been slightly warmer than that so far this month and due to almost constant cloud cover the night time lows are predicted to stay above average for all bar two of the next ten days.  I still shiver each time I remember the morning we went down to 6°C/43°F in mid August.

It must be putting your winter protection thoughts more in the forefront of your mind though.

[BobbyinNY]

It must be putting your winter protection thoughts more in the forefront of your mind though.

Yeah, that's the problem.... It's really more of a mind-set than anything else... I'm still in the 85f-day/75f-night mode... but it's supposed to warm up to a balmy 80/65 by this weekend and stay that way for at least 2 weeks.... I know I shouldn't complain, but we've been having such incredibly great weather aside from the last couple days that when it goes from constantly being 70f at night to 50f, it feels like winter has set in....

[oppalm]

think of it like this Bobby, you got a chance to practice your cold weather defense strategery (sounds impressive).    Now you know how long it takes to get your plants inside, how woefully inadequate one blanket is in your back yard (you'll probably need 10-15 blankets/sheets, etc.).  This was a practice run.  The real deal starts in 30 days.  Get ready.

[BobbyinNY]

think of it like this Bobby, you got a chance to practice your cold weather defense strategery (sounds impressive).    Now you know how long it takes to get your plants inside, how woefully inadequate one blanket is in your back yard (you'll probably need 10-15 blankets/sheets, etc.).  This was a practice run.  The real deal starts in 30 days.  Get ready.

hmmm.... never thought of it that way....

[SoLando]

Ouch. And my mornings have been too cold for me at 75ish. But it's still dark...grr. I hate being below 80. If it snows up there anytime soon, throw a snowball for me!! I haven't seen snow in over a decade!

[SubTropicRay]

Bobby,

Ditto on the Canadian air masses brother. Try not to get too upset.  The long range winter forecast calls for above normal northeast temps.

Ray

[BobbyinNY]

Bobby,

Ditto on the Canadian air masses brother. Try not to get too upset.  The long range winter forecast calls for above normal northeast temps.

Ray

Thanks, Ray.... ... I needed a boost today....

Unfortunately, with my situation I have no choice but to winterize the whole garden at like the 2nd week of October due to the frost possibility. Last year I set up the greenhouse in Mid October for One threatening day and then for almost a month and a half afterwards the temps didn't drop below 45f... Figures.

[NBTX11]

(SoLando @ Sep. 12 2006,16:49)

QUOTE

Ouch. And my mornings have been too cold for me at 75ish. But it's still dark...grr. I hate being below 80. If it snows up there anytime soon, throw a snowball for me!! I haven't seen snow in over a decade!

I believe the last real snowstorm for San Antonio, other that a little sleet/light freezing precip was back in 1986 when a freak snowstorm dumped a foot (yes a foot) of snow on the area.  Wonder how the palms look under all that snow.  Interesting enough, when that freak Christmas snowstorm occured near the coast a couple years ago, we didn't get one flake.  Brownsville got an inch or 2 of snow, and it hadn't snowed there since 1895.

[NBTX11]

(BobbyinNY @ Sep. 12 2006,09:56)

QUOTE

We got this blast of High Pressure this morning from Canada that sent my temps tumbling into the high 40's for a low and only getting to about 72f today... Very rare for Sept - more like Late Oct... It's only supposed to last till tonight, but I've been hauling all the sensitive stuff inside..... ugggh

40s, what's 40's.  I would have to put on a heavy jacket if it got that cold any time soon.  I though it was cool the past week, when it finally dropped below 70F for an overnight low.

[BobbyinNY]

40s, what's 40's.  I would have to put on a heavy jacket if it got that cold any time soon.  I though it was cool the past week, when it finally dropped below 70F for an overnight low.

hahhaha.. funny Jim .

[amazondk]

I remember Canadian air masses real well.  When I was a kid in Great Falls, Montana, they would come through and the temperature would drop from 40 F above zero  to 40 F below zero from the time I went to school until I got out in the afternoon.  Not really a good place to grow palms.

dk

[BobbyinNY]

I remember Canadian air masses real well.  When I was a kid in Great Falls, Montana, they would come through and the temperature would drop from 40 F above zero  to 40 F below zero from the time I went to school until I got out in the afternoon.  Not really a good place to grow palms.

dk

40f below...... Don, that's not even a place to grow people..forget about palms.... If it ever got anywhere NEAR that here, I'd pack up so fast that people wouldn't even be able to see me.

[amazondk]

Bobby,

That is one of the reasons I am not there.  Although it is a beautiful place and I love to go there.  For the most part the winters are dry and often not that cold.  But, the extremes are extreme and the growing season is short.  The chinook winds blowing from the southwest over the Rockies can make things go the other way and in a matter of less than a day go from way below zero to the 40's F.  Snow never stays on the ground all winter.   I would like to get up there for Christmas this year.  I still have a few warm clothes around.  There was recently a pretty strong Antarctic air mass that hit southern Brazil.  It actually snowed in several locations and in Sao Paulo got down to 6 C at night.  That is real cold when you live in a brick house with no heating.  I actually suffered more from cold in Sao Paulo than in Montana.

dk

[spockvr6]

(syersj @ Sep. 13 2006,14:46)

QUOTE

 I though it was cool the past week, when it finally dropped below 70F for an overnight low.

Im speculating on when that will happen here.  When it does, to me it signals that the "dark time" is nearly at hand  

The last time it was below 70F was May 25 when the low in my yard was 69.4F.

[BobbyinNY]

Im speculating on when that will happen here.  When it does, to me it signals that the "dark time" is nearly at hand  

The last time it was below 70F was May 25 when the low in my yard was 69.4F.

Yeah, I hear ya, Larry.... It's been (for the most part) in the low 60'sf at night for a low here now - this weekend daytime temps in the low-mid 80's.. but it's short lived.. After the end of this month, it starts dropping rapidly with temps overnight lows getting into the mid-high 40's on a regular basis by the end of October.

[NBTX11]

(amazondk @ Sep. 15 2006,12:21)

QUOTE

Bobby,

That is one of the reasons I am not there.  Although it is a beautiful place and I love to go there.  For the most part the winters are dry and often not that cold.  But, the extremes are extreme and the growing season is short.  The chinook winds blowing from the southwest over the Rockies can make things go the other way and in a matter of less than a day go from way below zero to the 40's F.  Snow never stays on the ground all winter.   I would like to get up there for Christmas this year.  I still have a few warm clothes around.  There was recently a pretty strong Antarctic air mass that hit southern Brazil.  It actually snowed in several locations and in Sao Paulo got down to 6 C at night.  That is real cold when you live in a brick house with no heating.  I actually suffered more from cold in Sao Paulo than in Montana.

dk

Actually, Great Falls can be much warmer than other northern tier states, New York included, in the winter.  If a strong chinook comes in it can warm it up 50-60 degrees.  I can remember 65-70 degrees in winter easily.  I know that doesn't sound really warm, but for a northern tier place it is.  Just a wild temperature swing between the artic fronts and the chinook wind days.  Could go from 55 degrees to 25 below in one or 2 days, and back up to 55-60 in the same time period.  But overall, it was fairly mild (for a norther latitude) in comparison to the Dakotas, Minn, Wisc. etc.  They don't get warm chinook days, but stay cold all winter.  I can remember one winter wearing flip flops on some mild 65 degree winter day, and having to wear a huge parka on the below zero days.  Beautiful though, just a couple hours from both Yellowstone and Glacier NPs.

[NBTX11]

(spockvr6 @ Sep. 15 2006,12:44)

QUOTE

(syersj @ Sep. 13 2006,14:46)

QUOTE

 I though it was cool the past week, when it finally dropped below 70F for an overnight low.

Im speculating on when that will happen here.  When it does, to me it signals that the "dark time" is nearly at hand  

The last time it was below 70F was May 25 when the low in my yard was 69.4F.

You guys usually start dropping into the 60s late Sept. correct.  We're back in the 70s overnight after a couple days in the 60's overnight.

[amazondk]

Jim,

I can remember going to bed on Christmas eve with snow and waking up in the moring on Christmas day with barely any and temperature climbing toward 50 or so.  I have also seen it snow in August.  The week before the tempertures were around 100 F.  I was there once with my kids in August and they made snowmen in my parents yard.  It was sort of surreal.  The snow did not last long, but there was enough to stick to the ground.

dk

[Zac in NC]

(BobbyinNY @ Sep. 15 2006,10:10)

QUOTE

I remember Canadian air masses real well.  When I was a kid in Great Falls, Montana, they would come through and the temperature would drop from 40 F above zero  to 40 F below zero from the time I went to school until I got out in the afternoon.  Not really a good place to grow palms.

dk

40f below...... Don, that's not even a place to grow people..forget about palms.... If it ever got anywhere NEAR that here, I'd pack up so fast that people wouldn't even be able to see me.

You are damn right, Bobby. I would be out of here if we ever dipped below 0 again. Heck, I am trying to get out of here anyway. North Carolina is too cold.

Zac

[spockvr6]

(syersj @ Sep. 15 2006,14:34)

QUOTE

You guys usually start dropping into the 60s late Sept. correct.  

Thats just about right.  I checked the data for Tampa AP and the long term averages show the first night with a below 70F low is October 4.  The Tarpon Springs station shows September 28 and the station in St. Pete shows October 16.

Somewhat amazingly, the date for Naples, FL is only October 7.  But, Miami AP shows November 2.  And, for the final kick in the pants for the rest of us, Key West's date is December 1.

And, as an aside, I believe the statistically coldest period(high/low average wise) for just about everywhere in central/south FL is the last week in January.

[SoLando]

We start below 70F on Sept. 30th (my birthday..figures I hate any temperature below 75) on average. Got a little cold front today, it was very nice out, breezy and hardly humid earlier this evening!! But, it's rainin' again now....

[NBTX11]

(spockvr6 @ Sep. 15 2006,20:47)

QUOTE

And, as an aside, I believe the statistically coldest period(high/low average wise) for just about everywhere in central/south FL is the last week in January.

Which for you is highs in the 70-72F range, with lows in the 50s.  Tough winter, might actually have to wear socks with the flip flops.

[spockvr6]

(syersj @ Sep. 15 2006,21:53)

QUOTE

(spockvr6 @ Sep. 15 2006,20:47)

QUOTE

And, as an aside, I believe the statistically coldest period(high/low average wise) for just about everywhere in central/south FL is the last week in January.

Which for you is highs in the 70-72F range, with lows in the 50s.  Tough winter, might actually have to wear socks with the flip flops.

Yeah...cant complain too much  Overall, things are pretty good here.  But, as is always the case....one feels obliged to think..."Oh man!  If I just lived thaaaat much further over thaaat way"

However, I am actually looking forward to winter (as I generally do).   Sure, the palms will slow down, but theres more to life than palms and it will be nice to not sweat all the time.  

Then after a few months of winter, we will be ready to be hot again....and the cycle continues!

Just no Alberta Clippers please!

[SoLando]

You know, livin' life in flip flops ain't that bad. Even if you do gotta put on them toe socks a few weeks out of the year. Life is good here compared to wearin' a winter coat for a few months straight up north. I ain't complainin'. Though Canada could just...go to Europe or something, and stop making us so cold! Imagine how awesome North America could look...without CANADA! Haha.

[amazondk]

Here at 3 degrees south latitude I am looking forward to seeing the rains come.  Cold fronts are really sort of meaningless, even though we do get occaisionally the tail end of an antarctic front from Argentina.  But, that really does not affect much other than a drop in temperature for a day or so below 90F during the day.  And, if it gets real cold it may get down to 70 F at night.   We still have about two months until the rains come.  I would like to get to Montana for Christmas and maybe experience some Canadian air.

dk

[elHoagie]

We've had a brutal cold air mass from the gulf of Alaska the past couple days.  The highs have only made it to about 25C, and it's 12C right now at my place.  These are more typical November temperatures.  Really wierd, since September is often the warmest month of the year here...

[spockvr6]

(elHoagie @ Sep. 16 2006,09:13)

QUOTE

We've had a brutal cold air mass from the gulf of Alaska the past couple days.  The highs have only made it to about 25C, and it's 12C right now at my place.  These are more typical November temperatures.  Really wierd, since September is often the warmest month of the year here...

Sounds good right about now to me!

Ive been out working in the yard all day.  91F with a 78F dewpoint has left me feeling a bit beat!

[SoLando]

I'd kill to go to Canada...Just got back from the killer UCF/USF game...Tailgated since 8:45 (for UCF!). It was BRUTAL!! We had the sun beaming down on our tent the whole day, but we did get the occasional breeze from the small lake. It was DAMN hot though, I had to take a shower as soon as I got home...Take me to Canada now.....

Those Gator games are brutal too, since The Swamp is half underground, there's basically no air flow unless you are at the very top or in the sky box. Not looking forward to the FL/Kentucky game next week...Gonna be hot as crap.

Y'all up north, be thankful you get a cool football season!

[DoomsDave]

Oh, yeah, how well I remember those Canadian air masses, eh?

It got down to about 30 below FF a few times (very few, thankfully!) combined with a hurricane with snow, and that 30 below didn't include wind chill.  

As Hoagie noted, it HAS been cool here the past few days, but I don't mind, it's great for working in the yard.

dave

[Neofolis]

Our nights have been above average temperature for the most part this year, but our highest night time temperature of the year was still only 21°C/69.8°F.  Reading this thread is just annoying, I so need to move.

[SunnyFl]

(spockvr6 @ Sep. 15 2006,20:47)

QUOTE

I checked the data for Tampa AP and the long term averages show the first night with a below 70F low is October 4.  The Tarpon Springs station shows September 28 and the station in St. Pete shows October 16.

Somewhat amazingly, the date for Naples, FL is only October 7.  But, Miami AP shows November 2.  

16th of October sounds about right for here, too.  Because it coincides with the first cold front of the year.  This is quite easy for me to remember b/c it causes the worst migraine of the year - which usually, in turn, coincides with my 2nd-favorite fall event, the Jazz Holiday.

At least those stupid "fall migraines" don't coincide with the Searles' Rainforest sale or the Fairchild Palm sale!!

Larry said,

Ive been out working in the yard all day.  91F with a 78F dewpoint has left me feeling a bit beat!

I know how that feels!  I used to be able to take the heat a whole lot better, but I get worn out when I do the yard work now.  But I'd happily trade - I spent yesterday between Home Depot and Lowe's - took all day.  Would have rather been outside planting and soakin' up the sun.

[spockvr6]

(SunnyFl @ Sep. 17 2006,05:10)

QUOTE

16th of October sounds about right for here, too.  Because it coincides with the first cold front of the year.  

If I had to guess, itll probably be somewhere in the middle of the Tampa date and St. Pete date for your area.  That Albert Whitted station data never seems all that applicable to those of us on the "other side of the tracks" so to speak!

The "other side" seems to be west of maybe 9th Street and north of perhaps 40th Ave.  This is just a rough guess, but I think its close based on how whats growing changes.

[spockvr6]

(SunnyFl @ Sep. 17 2006,05:10)

QUOTE

Ive been out working in the yard all day.  91F with a 78F dewpoint has left me feeling a bit beat!

I know how that feels!  I used to be able to take the heat a whole lot better, but I get worn out when I do the yard work now.  

Looks like a decent cooldown will be coming by midweek.

Check out the cool air to the north and running down the west side of the Lake Wales Ridge!

[bgl]

Just curious, and maybe I missed something, but exactly where's this Albert Whitted station that you FL guys talk about?

[amazondk]

The tail end of this weeks Antartic cold blast to Southern Brazil showed up in Manaus this morning.  It produced a nice rain for a few hours and a rather cool overcast day.  The temperatures below were from this morning when the front came through.  Tomorrow is another story, back to 95 F plus I am sure.  This is about as cold as it gets anytime.

Hourly Summary

Sunday Morning, September 17

5am 6am 7am 8am 9am  10am 11am Noon

76° F 76° F 76° F 77° F 81° F 82° F 82° F 77° F

Hourly Details

Sunday Morning, September 17

  5am 6am 7am 8am 9am 10am 11am Noon

RealFeel® 81° F 81° F 82° F 91° F 98° F 100° F 100° F 85° F

Dewpoint 72° F 72° F 72° F 73° F 73° F 74° F 74° F 71° F

Humidity 87% 88% 86% 88% 78% 78% 78% 83%

Wind Direction NNW NW WNW N N SSE WNW NE

Wind Speed 4 mph 4 mph 5 mph 0 mph 0 mph 2 mph 4 mph 6 mph

Precip Type -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

[spockvr6]

(bgl @ Sep. 17 2006,15:35)

QUOTE

Just curious, and maybe I missed something, but exactly where's this Albert Whitted station that you FL guys talk about?

Bo-

Albert Whitted AP is the official station for St. Petersburg, FL.  Its located in downtown St. Pete.

Courtest of Yahoo Maps---

The only problem is that this station's data not applicable to much of St. Pete at all as this is a notoriously warm area.  Its long term average is 10b and many years (like this past one with a winter minimum of 46F) are 11.   I have some photos of plants/palms of this area and they look as though they could have been taken in Miami and not St. Pete.

Generally speaking, most areas of town will be close to 10F colder than this station on the worst winter nights.

[SunnyFl]

(bgl @ Sep. 17 2006,15:35)

QUOTE

Just curious, and maybe I missed something, but exactly where's this Albert Whitted station that you FL guys talk about?

Hi Bo,

Albert Whitted is the municipal airport by downtown St. Pete, right on Tampa Bay.  Close by is Gizella Kopsick (probably misspelt) Palm Arboreteum, which is an oasis of beauty - the area has winter temps much warmer than most of Tampa Bay.

The official temps of St. Pete are recorded at Albert Whitted.  Other official readings are taken at St. Pete/Clearwater Airport.  Albert Whitted's winter readings are warmer.

Unfortunately, most of the time, the "official" temps mentioned on national tv are for "Tampa Bay."   These are taken from Tampa Int'l Airport, which is colder in winter than Albert Whitted - and colder than a lot of us in St. Pete either.

FOTMI, zones can get quite confusing around here

(Fortunately for me, Albert Whitted only about 15-20 min. from my lil house (maybe less if you drive fast on the interstate) - it's really great living so close to GKPA.)

[Alan_Tampa]

Larry, that cold front is a bit of a lot of nothing.  September can bring some cool fronts, October too.  November it can happen for real but usually not. December and January are trouble, real trouble.  Feb can be a dick but usually a last gasp.  No need to bring up the Valentine's Day Ice Parade from last Feb.

That dip coming up will do more for growing than anything else.

Alan

Again with the maps? Larry, geez.

[SunnyFl]

Ya beat me to it, Larry!

I just typed too slowly