When is enough, So Cal Palm Society.

[Gtlevine]

I don't intend to offend anyone involved with the Southern California Palm Society because I am not actively contributing myself and it is a difficult job to give your time and effort without getting paid. But I have always felt it is my obligation to support the society as I do the International Palm Society and so I keep my membership dues current. I just received the new issue of the International Palm Society Journal and once again I am impressed with the professional and informative publication the IPS continues to put forth. The article about the decline of Livistona Carinensis was excellent as well as the other information within the journal. Which leads me to wonder how long I can continue to support the Southern California Palm Society. The So Cal version costs the same membership dues as the IPS version yet it is unprofessional, never arrives in time and has generally gone down hill since Geoff Stein, Randy Moore, and some of the past editors left the organization for various reasons. Those involved please don't be offended if you read this post, but I am sure there are many that echo my sentiments within the So Cal Society and we all want our own society to thrive and grow and produce the high quality we have grown used to. If the organization does not improve I will be forced to resign my membership and put my time elsewhere. For those who would say why don't I contribute by writing articles, well I used to write articles, but I am really not qualified, I am an Engineer and cannot write in such a manner to be compelling to everyone reading, this in addition to the fact that I have only the knowledge of a hobby grower. The So Cal journal at present is just a pretty magazine with some nice photos and a lot of advertisements for growers. At the minimum, maybe advertising costs should go up for the growers and the additional revenue paid to a qualified editing staff. The palm society of southern california has some very intelligent people who are members, I know it should be much better than it is and it must start with the current board of directors with the will to improve the organization. I hope other members in so cal contribute with sincere and informative information and suggestions to this post.

Gary

Edited July 6, 2008 by Gtlevine

[LJG]

Gary, you are not kidding. I just paid for three years and I don't even get a t-shirt out of it. One thing I will say is I met Don Martin a few weeks back. I guess he will become the new president. In talking to him he is working out how to simplify the publication software or learn it himself and get things rolling again. I guess membership has been down a few hundred over the last few years (do not quote the exact number as this was off the top of my head - but it was a large number). Hopefully he can do something.

As with any small organization or company, it is usually a small few that are really the backbone. Once they are gone the effects are felt.

[tropicalb]

I've been a member of the PSSC for the last two years, and I really didn't join for the journals .....I just liked the people that were in the society and enjoy hanging out with them when I can.

The annual dinner at the Huntington alone was worth the membership dues to me.

[elHoagie]

Gary,

I'm part of the SoCal Palm Journal, but don't worry, I'm not offended ... It's good to get some feedback about what's working and what isn't.

Anyway, I know it's been brought up a few times, but we have had problems just getting journals out. This is a major problem, but I'm cautiously optimistic that things will be improving. I think the next issue went to the printers last week, so hopefully it will arrive towards the end of the month (inexpensive bulk mailing means it sometimes takes a while for them to be delivered).

But, it seems like that's not your main complaint. It seems like you're talking about the fact that the IPS journal is usually filled with informative articles by experts (botanists, etc.). On the other hand, the SoCal Palm Journal is filled mostly with articles from hobbyists. I don't see this changing any time in the near future. From what I understand, the IPS gives grant money to researchers with the expectation that the results of the research will be published in the IPS journal. Therefore, they are guaranteed to have a journal filled with articles from experts. Someone please correct me if this is not the case. Anyway, the SoCal society just doesn't have enough members to generate enough revenue to support a large number of research grants, and so we can't follow the model used by the IPS.

Jack

[paulgila]

oh,jack is still around.

[Walter John]

Interesting thread really, because it works differently here. Here we can be members of:

World = IPS - International Palm Society

Country = PACSOA - Palm and Cycad Society of Australia

Local chapter = BPACS - Brisbane Palm and Cycad Society

I'll receive 3 separate papers or journals or magazines. I can contribute to each if I want, I can respond to each, etc etc.

Well I could join any society really, if I was allowed, even the Southern California Palm Society, but basically the above is the three tier palm organisations in place for me.

I am only a recent member of IPS and their journal is good but I have to admit, I still prefer the PACSOA journal.

Perhaps you should have a USA palm society.

[Gonzer]

Gary, interesting comment. I too opted out of the SCPS in the late 90's due to frustration with the journal's format and delivery times. One of the old editors, Kent Houser, was the subject of a recent post of mine (where is he?). His wit and journalistic capabilities were unsurpassed! The articles had depth and substance and often left you laughing due to Kent's wry humor. There was highly diversified and well thought out subject matter that seemed to have something for everyone. His departure left a gap that to me, signaled the downward spiral of the journal. Oftentimes it seems that when a society has a "mother" journal and a secondary local publication that you'll find the two publish articles that are polar opposites ie., scientific vs. hobby/fun.

[Gtlevine]

Thanks for chiming in here. My complaint is two fold, getting the journal on time should be number one priority, I don't think there is any excuse for consistently being as late as it has been. Second, these journals are coming so late I need to look back and see if the journal is even coming out with the specified 4 per year. I also echo Gonzor's comments, we need to get people writing articles that have some journalistic background so the articles are compelling, I often don't read the articles because I find myself falling asleep like I'm reading a chemisty book. I wish I could do it, but I fall asleep reading my own articles so I am not a good candidate. I remember when we went from six great journals a year to four journals and this was hailed as an improvement. In reality, we went from six great journals to "maybe" four average publications. The best journal I have received in the last couple of years was the calender with Bo's Orange Crush on the cover, now what does that tell you? Maybe we should send out great palm photos instead and forget the text.

Thanks,

Gary

Gary,

I'm part of the SoCal Palm Journal, but don't worry, I'm not offended ... It's good to get some feedback about what's working and what isn't.

Anyway, I know it's been brought up a few times, but we have had problems just getting journals out. This is a major problem, but I'm cautiously optimistic that things will be improving. I think the next issue went to the printers last week, so hopefully it will arrive towards the end of the month (inexpensive bulk mailing means it sometimes takes a while for them to be delivered).

But, it seems like that's not your main complaint. It seems like you're talking about the fact that the IPS journal is usually filled with informative articles by experts (botanists, etc.). On the other hand, the SoCal Palm Journal is filled mostly with articles from hobbyists. I don't see this changing any time in the near future. From what I understand, the IPS gives grant money to researchers with the expectation that the results of the research will be published in the IPS journal. Therefore, they are guaranteed to have a journal filled with articles from experts. Someone please correct me if this is not the case. Anyway, the SoCal society just doesn't have enough members to generate enough revenue to support a large number of research grants, and so we can't follow the model used by the IPS.

Jack

Edited July 6, 2008 by Gtlevine

[BS Man about Palms]

Having been the member of many clubs and organizations over the years, I have learned to be leery of criticizing unless you are willing to do something about it. Because as mentioned, they are usually volunteer positions and people are usually stressed enough with their own consciences that to point out problems without offering to help often leads to people quitting due to a perception of not being appreciated or a realization that they can't do what they volunteered to do.

I know from doing mailings for clubs in the past, the vast amount of the membership dues are to pay for printing and mailing. So, if having nothing is OK with folks, lambast away I say.

Not sure if this still available :deadhorse:

[LJG]

Having been the member of many clubs and organizations over the years, I have learned to be leery of criticizing unless you are willing to do something about it.

Bill, this is false. The issue is not about "criticizing" but about pointing out a fact that we are *paying* for something that is *not* being delivered. This can be classified as false advertising in the for-profit world. If someone does not make the public aware then the issue can continue until no one is a member. I paid my three year payment with the understanding I was getting this:

http://www.palmssc.org/membership/membership.htm

I am not. What can I do to help with the newsletter or journal? Nothing - I chose to pay for the benefits. I had no intention of doing more (skill set is lacking and experience with palms is in infancy) as there was no requirement. But because we do not volunteer, it does not give me or Gary the right to ask question or raise concerns as members? I paid for that right Bill.

With that being said, I have friends and know a lot of people on the PSSC. So this is nothing against them and the great work they do on a volunteer basis. In talking to some I know they are trying to turn things around. This is why I had no issue paying for three years up front. I also hope to write articles in the future once I have gained experience and have something to share. For now I can only hope the PSSC does what it advertises or simply changes what they offer to be current with what is real.

[Gtlevine]

Bill, I think you are speaking from the point of view that you love palms and the people within the palm society and are afraid to offend good people. I also love the people and the hobby and it is for this reason that I am speaking up, to save a great organization from falling apart. Now I have written several articles for the journal Bill, you have not. Some of my articles got published, others have not. It is a fact that not all of us have the ability toward journalistic endeavors and have not actively contributed, but that does not exclude them from having the right to speak out on this subject. $40/year gives every member the right to say what they want and quit if the product is not being delivered. I just love palms, the society and the people, and I want the organization to grow not decline. Right now the product is not being delivered and I echo Lens sentiments. We are paying the same for the So Cal Society as the IPS and it is currently like comparing a supermodel with the Elephant Man. I would be happy to pay $50 or $60 to get my six journals a year back with the quality of years past. I hope something will be done soon.

Gary

[Dypsisdean]

I have been a member of the PSSC for a long time. I joined and continue to belong (even not living in SoCal anymore) because of the Journal. Without the Journal, why would anyone not living in SoCal want to be a member? I used to drop everything when it would arrive, and not put it down until read, cover to cover. Until recently, I enjoyed it much more than the IPS publication. I could never understand how a small "chapter" could put together a publication that rivaled the IPS's. IMO, it was the best palm publication in the world, and I could recommend joining the PSSC to anyone, just for the Journal.

I now understand why. It is because the PSSC has been lucky enough to have found some exceptional people to be the editor. From Bo to Kent, then Rebecca, and until recently Chris --- the time, expertise, and creativity that these editors have contributed has been unbelievable. It's simple --- without a super dedicated and technically adept editor in charge, there is no Journal. Even with that person, publishing on time with compelling content was always a problem.

I have a suggestion. The position of editor is too important of a position to depend on luck to keep providing a competent volunteer. It should be a paid position. But it's a chicken and egg proposition. Without an interesting and on time publication, there will not be the funds that could enable that solution. With today's advancing technologies, a competent dedicated person could assume that position, create a framework for an efficient publication protocol (that a successor could step into without missing a beat), and create a Journal that would convince people to join the PSSC. I am not privy to the PSSC financial situation, but I bet it could be done. However, it certainly cannot occur if membership continues to dwindle.

I would compare being PalmTalk moderator to being the Journal's editor. Both require a dedicated competent individual. Both are vehicles to add members and value to their prospective organizations. Both would cease to operate effectively without their respective "captains." And filling each position is equally difficult.

I get paid modestly to moderate PalmTalk. I considered the position before I knew it was a paid one, but decided against it. So in a sense it was the pay that persuaded me to accept the position, but certainly not the compelling reason. I believe the IPS gets more than their money's worth in added value, improvements, and increased membership. And I feel valued, and can approach my position as more of a job.

That's what the Journal needs. Someone that is not strictly a volunteer. Someone that can approach the position as a job to be improved on and completed on time. Someone that can use today's technology to create a publication and framework that becomes easier to manage, cheaper to publish, and a position that another could step into and continue the process easily. Someone that is interested in researching new approaches like online publishing. I wouldn't mind reading my Journal and checking the photos on my Hi-Def television --- no printing costs, no mailing costs. Someone that would return more money to the PSSC than what they get paid.

All the Journal needs is an exceptional editor, so perhaps a meager financial enticement would help. As can be seen, always finding volunteers the caliber of Bo, Kent, and Chris cannot be counted on.

[BS Man about Palms]

I think you guys are missing my point. (By the way Gary, I have written at least one article for the journal, not included it yet, I guess) You may complain or criticize as you please. I'm just saying that in the past clubs and orginizations I've been in (both as a core person and on the periphery) if it is a non-paid position, it rarely has the effect of helping the current situation. It may collapse in the short term and come back later, or continue on the same, but only on occasion does the "non offer of help-backed" criticizism gain an event, publication or situation a boom in fruitfulness. It will usually only to fall to where it was, shortly thereafter.

Also Len, it looks like only the magazine is missing from your membership "bennies" (Yes, I know, thats a big one.)

I guess its because I think along the lines of having worked in several restaraunts, I've seen what has been done to peoples food when they complain before the food comes out. I wait till after its brought . I guess that means I choose carefully when and where I criticize.

I don't see a problem here with this thread, it just points out differences in outlooks we all have. When a person is being paid to deliver a good or service, I will complain if its not up to expectations. I'm more lenient with volunteers.

BS Man

Edit: Dean posted while I was typing this and I agree with his thoughts completely.

[Jon North Padre Island]

We are near having similar problems in the Palm Soc of South Texas. We have had an incredible Journal as long as I have been a member (2002) but the writer, editor, publisher, printer and often distributor has been the same person. He is getting tired of no help,,, make that has gotten tired of no help,,, but no one has stepped up to the plate to help out. We have reduced the number of editions from four a year to three.

Our dues are low but we raise considerable funds in auctions and other functions which are donated to more or less worthwhile projects.

So, if I hear you saying, we like to attend functions, visit gardens, et al; we have the same organization. We, individually, are more likely to throw money at projects than spend time on them and ergo the frustrations of our one person Journal Staff.

In fact, I was going to join the PSSC and several others to see how they function. I have just taken the helm of the PSST and want to see how other similar groups make it work but this discussion of the PSSC seems very close to home.

[surferjr]

Thanks for chiming in here. My complaint is two fold, getting the journal on time should be number one priority, I don't think there is any excuse for consistently being as late as it has been. Second, these journals are coming so late I need to look back and see if the journal is even coming out with the specified 4 per year. I also echo Gonzor's comments, we need to get people writing articles that have some journalistic background so the articles are compelling, I often don't read the articles because I find myself falling asleep like I'm reading a chemisty book. I wish I could do it, but I fall asleep reading my own articles so I am not a good candidate. I remember when we went from six great journals a year to four journals and this was hailed as an improvement. In reality, we went from six great journals to "maybe" four average publications. The best journal I have received in the last couple of years was the calender with Bo's Orange Crush on the cover, now what does that tell you? Maybe we should send out great palm photos instead and forget the text.

Thanks,

Gary

OMEN Gary!!!! :yay: MORE PICS TOO!!

Gary,

I'm part of the SoCal Palm Journal, but don't worry, I'm not offended ... It's good to get some feedback about what's working and what isn't.

Anyway, I know it's been brought up a few times, but we have had problems just getting journals out. This is a major problem, but I'm cautiously optimistic that things will be improving. I think the next issue went to the printers last week, so hopefully it will arrive towards the end of the month (inexpensive bulk mailing means it sometimes takes a while for them to be delivered).

But, it seems like that's not your main complaint. It seems like you're talking about the fact that the IPS journal is usually filled with informative articles by experts (botanists, etc.). On the other hand, the SoCal Palm Journal is filled mostly with articles from hobbyists. I don't see this changing any time in the near future. From what I understand, the IPS gives grant money to researchers with the expectation that the results of the research will be published in the IPS journal. Therefore, they are guaranteed to have a journal filled with articles from experts. Someone please correct me if this is not the case. Anyway, the SoCal society just doesn't have enough members to generate enough revenue to support a large number of research grants, and so we can't follow the model used by the IPS.

Jack

Edited July 6, 2008 by surferjr

[Dypsisdean]

But, it seems like that's not your main complaint. It seems like you're talking about the fact that the IPS journal is usually filled with informative articles by experts (botanists, etc.). On the other hand, the SoCal Palm Journal is filled mostly with articles from hobbyists.

Jack

Jack,

IMO, the content of the Journal is, and has been, enjoyable. Of course there is always room for improvement, but if the Journal would have been published on schedule this past year, I would have been pleased with my membership.

I used to enjoy the sometimes rambling humorous stream of consciousness stories Kent used to write, and the less than technical article about a member's growing experience with a new species. The layout and pics have been great.

So I would concentrate on getting the product out on time first. Then think about any improvements that could be worked on.

[Walter John]

You want an aussie article for your journal each time ? just let me know, and how many words, pics etc.

[Gtlevine]

Dean, your suggestion is a good one. You are a friend and so I could easily be biased, but I speak truthfully when I say your pay is well worth it, this board is turned into a great place to come everyday and communicate with fellow palm addicts from all over the world and trust me, I remember the dog days before you arrived. So I think a paid editor may be the only way to revive the SO Cal journal.

Bill, if what you say is true and this discussion has no effect, then the So Cal society will cease to exist. And I understand your point about not critiquing a non paid volunteer, but I feel this is a wrong analysis not fair to those involved. If I perform a poor job whether paid or not, I would expect an honest critique of my work. Silence would be both unfair to me and cruel, I would just continue on producing garbage and I would be the only one not in on the joke. I was happy to be told my articles I wrote were substandard, now I won't have to continue boring the rest of you. I can imagine seeing my name on an article and people just turning the page. And also, the fact that someone is unpaid is irrelevant, the journal is 99% of the reason we join the society and are $40 dollars is for that journal. The annual banquet is an additional cost, last I heard the banquet is not included in the annual fee. The fact is we pay $40 dollars for the journal and it must improve and be delivered on time or I like many others will quit.

Gary

[bgl]

I've been following this discussion with great interest. Apart from Gary's complaint about the recent delays with the Palm Journal (which of course is very valid), I don't quite see his point about content. As far as I'm concerned, content (photos, articles, lay-out) has greatly improved over the years and all the recent Palm Journals that I have received are, in my opinion, of exceptional quality. Jack's comment about Palms (the IPS Journal) getting articles written by grant recipients is only partly correct. Yes, the IPS implemented this requirement a couple of years ago (that recipients of grants also be required to write an article for Palms about their grant funded research), but the number of articles that are received in this manner is definitely only a small portion of all articles that are sent to John Dransfield and Scott Zona, the editorial team, for publication.

Having been involved with volunteer organizations for many years I also know that, generally speaking, the number of people who are willing to get involved (run for the Board, or participate in some other way) is very very small. And of the people who are prepared to get involved, it's an even smaller number who are actually going to do the bulk of the work involved. This is just a fact, and I don't see it changing. The key is for those few people who are running the organization to be able to identify those who might be both qualified and willing to do something, and then ask those people to step in and help out. To have someone come forward without being asked is almost unheard of.

Dean's comment about a paid position may very well be a good idea. There's probably no way of finding out unless you try it. However, there's also a different way of looking at this. When I was the editor of the Palm Journal (1993-1994), I remember that during Board meetings Don Tollefson brought up, on a couple of occasions, the idea of paying the editor (me, at the time). I was dead set against this idea, and made my opinion very clear. This was when the Palm Journal was published six times a year. Every second month I would take the third weekend of the month, and dedicate that entire weekend to the Palm Journal. I started on it Friday evening, and by Sunday evening I was done. The reason I had to do it the third weekend was very simple: I worked on my own aviation newsletter all the other weekends, so that was the only available time. (And for some reason, my wife wasn't too happy about this arrangement... ). From my point of view, there was no amount of money that the PSSC could pay me that would come even close to compensating me for my time, so why accept something that from my point of view would have been just a token compensation? Plus, I also felt that if I accepted payment. then that would also give the PSSC the right to interfere in my job as editor, and maybe question the way I was doing things. I wanted to do it my way, and a non paid position gave me that freedom. But, things were much simpler then. Maybe today's situation warrants a review, and that's not for me to question. Having a complex production cycle with numerous people involved is both good news and bad news. Good news is that you can certainly produce a much more professional journal. Bad news is that as soon as you have a team of volunteers you're almost bound to run into some sort of difficulty getting everybody to do WHAT they're supposed to do, and WHEN they're supposed to do it. One of the keys to success is most certainly being able to find people for key positions who know how to work with deadlines. Without this ability, things aren't likely to improve. My 2 cents. OK, 5 cents!

[Gtlevine]

Thanks Bo, for now I will just settle for a journal delivered on time as Dean pointed out, then we can see about other improvements. Maybe if I actually see one in the mail when it is suppose to be in the mail, then the other problems won't seem as bad. I am just having a hard time seeing what was once a great journal go down hill as it has. What makes it worse is that I have the IPS journal to compare it with and that journal is now incredible. Like Dean said, I just wait at the mailbox for the IPS journal to arrive and read it cover to cover the same night. Props to all those involved in the IPS Journal.

Gary

[Kim]

Gary's complaints are valid. No journal has yet been produced this year.

Having recently come forward as a volunteer to write for the Journal (unheard of, says Bo -- I don't know what posessed me), I have had a tiny peek inside the Journal machine. Let me simply say, it's a big, complicated machine, you have no idea. I am doubtful that paying an editor would entirely solve the problem -- many people are involved in various phases of production, and it seems the actual preparation for final print is the most complicated, (not easily taught or learned) and at present only one person knows how to do it. But many things must happen before the Journal gets to that bottleneck.

As the newest addition to the team, I am certainly not in a position to speak for the editorial staff, but believe me, they are aware of the problem, deeply concerned, recognize it is unexcusable, and are working hard to get the issues out prontissimo. Scheduling has been set to avoid any gaps in the future. I believe there is also a plan to train more than one person to do the final production phase. Now if we can all just follow through on the plan, Gary will soon be able to resume reading his journals.

[Walter John]

I volunteered when I became editor as well Kim, there may have been one or two pushing me in the back I can't recall now

Ours (BPACS) is toned down now to a newsletter, which is my doing mostly and it was voted on though, the costs were becoming quite high for a small group. I mentioned earlier about a USA palm society, that might be the way to go for publications.

For what it's worth, we used to complete our magazine on Microsoft Publisher, pretty easy to use, then take it to a printers who would produce the booklet.

anyway, I'm sure things on the journal front will get better for you.

[Gtlevine]

Kim, Wal mentioned a couple of posts up that the Aussies could contribute an article for each of our journals. As a new staff member maybe you should contact Wal and arrange this, the Aussies should have alot to offer.

BTW, since it is July already, are we getting more than one journal this year? And thanks for volunteering, we need all the qualified help we can get to get things back on track.

Gary

[Dypsisdean]

Bo,

I think it is safe to say that no one has a better insight into this situation than you do. But if you haven't noticed lately, there is only one Bo Lundkvist that I know of. (Unfortunately) So, no one else of your ilk that would slave away on a strict schedule, every other month, and refuse to accept anything for it. Not to mention the constant reminders and prodding to get articles, and just the pure love of the subject material to boot.

And these days it would be an advantage to have someone with the ability to research and stay up on the latest technological advances that could cut costs and provide a better product more quickly.

So until they get cloning down, there are no more Bo Lundkvists. But there may be some palm lover out there with organizational skills and some experience in cutting edge publishing techniques that would like a challenge while getting some help filling their tank. It's been frustrating to watch the two palm organizations muddle along about 5 years behind the technological curve.

[Dypsisdean]

Let me simply say, it's a big, complicated machine, you have no idea.

Kim,

I think that's the problem. My point is that someone with the right skills, technology, and incentive, may (and I stress may, because I am just thinking out loud here) be able to take the big complicated machine and make it smaller, more efficient, and less complicated.

[Dypsisdean]

One more suggestion regarding content:

There must be more people like Gary that have a ton of knowledge and great camera skills, but feel a little inadequate when it comes to writing skills. I have a feeling more people may be willing to contribute if they felt someone with some skills could spice up their articles a little.

Let Gary submit an article with pics, let someone make him sound like Hemingway, send it back to him for an OK, and you have a great article.

[bgl]

Kim,

I'm glad to hear that you volunteered to help out. You'll be of great value to the PSSC team! And I did say "ALMOST unheard of"...

Bo-Göran

And thank you, Dean! Nobody brought up cloning before, though! And not knowing exactly how things are organized I'm obviously unable to come up with specific suggestions, but with the right organization AND making sure that deadlines are met this is not exactly rocket science! Dean's comments in post #26 reminded me of another way of doing things. Back when I was the editor, Don Tollefson would interview various palm people, and the interview would be published in the Palm Journal. He did this for every single Palm Journal for many years. This is an excellent way of getting information from members who are reluctant to write an article themselves.

[Kim]

One more suggestion regarding content:

There must be more people like Gary that have a ton of knowledge and great camera skills, but feel a little inadequate when it comes to writing skills. I have a feeling more people may be willing to contribute if they felt someone with some skills could spice up their articles a little.

Let Gary submit an article with pics, let someone make him sound like Hemingway, send it back to him for an OK, and you have a great article.

Kim,

I'm glad to hear that you volunteered to help out. You'll be of great value to the PSSC team! And I did say "ALMOST unheard of"...

Bo-Göran

And thank you, Dean! Nobody brought up cloning before, though! And not knowing exactly how things are organized I'm obviously unable to come up with specific suggestions, but with the right organization AND making sure that deadlines are met this is not exactly rocket science! Dean's comments in post #26 reminded me of another way of doing things. Back when I was the editor, Don Tollefson would interview various palm people, and the interview would be published in the Palm Journal. He did this for every single Palm Journal for many years. This is an excellent way of getting information from members who are reluctant to write an article themselves.

Great minds think alike! When I volunteered, my idea was to interview people with lots of palm knowledge who wouldn't necessarily want to write an article. I like to write, but my palm knowledge is, uh, nascent. Yes, that's a good word, nascent. But I do have some experience checking latin binomials, and I understand the kinds of things people want to know about growing palms, so, I hope I can make a small contribution. The cool thing is I get to talk to a lot of really interesting palm people, lucky me! And BS Man is going to sound Hemingwayesque in my Sabal article, I promise...

[BS Man about Palms]

Kim, will I sound like the Old Man and the Sea?..... lol

Anyhoo, I should almost be quiet here because Kim is conveying my thoughts quite well. The parties involved are aware of their performance and will either (a) git er done' ( realize their faults and quit © realize their faults and try to do better, but is usually not the case. I hope for (a), but without help or offered solutions, its usually ( or ©.

[LJG]

Dean, I think one important factor is where the individual is in their life. I have a full time job and 2 young kids. Time is not what I have. Once I become retired I am sure I will be looking for other things to do with my time. Volunteering for the IPS and PSSC will certainly be one thing as my palm knowledge will then be more then "nascent".

[_Keith]

It would seem to be that the benefit of joining a society would be just that, a society. Publications and otherwise are just that, extras. With a few Google searches I can quickly find all I care to read about Palms, anywhere. Whether IPS, or other, I enjoy the companionship of like minded people. This should be the main pursuit. Newsletter are optional.

Of course, I am optional, haha,

[Dypsisdean]

It would seem to be that the benefit of joining a society would be just that, a society. Publications and otherwise are just that, extras. With a few Google searches I can quickly find all I care to read about Palms, anywhere. Whether IPS, or other, I enjoy the companionship of like minded people. This should be the main pursuit. Newsletter are optional.

Of course, I am optional, haha,

Keith,

Without a good publication there is no need for anyone outside the area to join.

Have you ever seen a copy of the PSSC Journal? SoCal is unique in that the conditions that exist and are written about there, pertain to many areas of the world. And because there are probably more marginal palm growers there than anywhere, the knowledge and info that is recorded in their Journals are worthwhile to many. With a quality Journal the PSSC has the world as it's market. Without it, only SoCal.

[Walter John]

I understand both Dean and Keith here. There is one very important term not mentioned so far though, and that is "active" . If you go to the meetings each time and the outings as an active member then you can live without the local product publication being fancy and full or on time because it is the company of fellow palmists that draws you in and the events you attend (meetings/outings).

On the other hand if you are unable to be an active member by virtue of geography or work commitments etc, then a good publication is needed and on a regular basis as promised by the society in the first place. Personally I'm happy with IPS and PACSOA journals because I'm an active member and over a period of time have made some good friends in this game and to top it all off, I'm a ratpacker, there is nothing more exciting in the palm business than being a member of the ratpack. Biased ? yeh, sure I am, why not.

[paulgila]

good point wal.

[_Keith]

So, my point is, if you are concerned with a magazine, subscribe to a professional magazine with a paid staff.

If you are interested in a society, with people of like mind with whom you can associate, join a society.

If you want both, keep your fingers crossed and roll up your own sleaves and prepare to work for the impossible.

It is a simple mind's way of looking at simple things.

Keith

[paulgila]

good point,keith.

[tropicalb]

The annual banquet is an additional cost, last I heard the banquet is not included in the annual fee. The fact is we pay $40 dollars for the journal and it must improve and be delivered on time or I like many others will quit.

I was under the assumption that you have to be a member or a guest of a paid member of the PSSC to go the banquet (or even get an invite for that matter)...hence my comment that the $40 a year dues was acceptable to me just to be able to attend the banquet (which is QUITE fun by the way!)

Don't get me wrong Gary and Len....your complaints about the journal not being delivered are totally valid. I just think there is more to being a member of the PSSC than being a subscriber to a publication. The meetings and garden tours are the reason I believe that most people join.

It's doubtful that I will renew my membership next year, as all the PSSC events are held on Saturdays, and I am unable to attend 80% of them due to the fact that I work almost every Saturday of the year.

Keith,

Without a good publication there is no need for anyone outside the area to join.

Have you ever seen a copy of the PSSC Journal? SoCal is unique in that the conditions that exist and are written about there, pertain to many areas of the world. And because there are probably more marginal palm growers there than anywhere, the knowledge and info that is recorded in their Journals are worthwhile to many. With a quality Journal the PSSC has the world as it's market. Without it, only SoCal.

Very true Dean. However, the thought of looking at the society as a "business" irks me. Like I said in my original comment, for me, it's all about the people. Without them (whether there are 10 or 10,000 members), it's just a magazine.

EDIT:

One other solution to the PSSC journal problem would be to make the journal "paperless" and post it as a downloadable online publication available only to members. If indeed most of the dues money goes to publication of the journal itself, using this method would dramatically reduce the amount of money it costs to produce the journal; membership dues could be decreased, thereby making membership more affordable to the "marketplace" .

Edited July 7, 2008 by tropicalb

[elHoagie]

Like several of you have mentioned, the long-term answer is to have an online publication. Without the expense of publishing/mailing the journal and the newsletters, I bet PSSC memberships would be $10 or less per year. The problem is that there are still WAY too many members who refuse to keep pace with the world. I'm amazed how many of our members say they can't even turn on a computer...

Gary - who said your articles were substandard? I've enjoyed all the ones I've read.

Wal - I'm sending you a PM.

[Gonzer]

Since I've got everyone's attention maybe someone could answer my original post and the follow-up here....what ever happened to Kent Houser? Did he fall off the planet unbeknownst to all?

[elHoagie]

Since I've got everyone's attention maybe someone could answer my original post and the follow-up here....what ever happened to Kent Houser? Did he fall off the planet unbeknownst to all?

Sorry, I have no idea Gonzer. The dude was before my time...