Royal Poinciana (Delonix Regia)

[bubba]

Based upon numerous references in tropical literature to the effect that Royal Poincianna trees are tropical in nature and cannot be grown outside the South Florida area in the United States,I would like to hear from grower's of this specimen in other area's of the US or elsewhere in the world where it is being grown in non-tropical climates.Also, when does the tree bloom and how long does it remain without leaves.Iwould like to see more of those Arizona pictures

[Walt]

Delonix regia can and do grow quite well in the warmer areas of central Florida. I've been growing one for many years. When I bought mine my care tag said zone 9b, but better in 10a and up.

A local Royal poinciana:

by waltcat100

[JeffreyApolloBeach]

These are two of the four Royal Poinciana growing in Apollo Beach (Tampa Bay).

http://thumb19.webshots.net/t....MG]

http://thumb19.webshots.net/t....MG]

[spockvr6]

Royal Poincianas seem to grow well in the warm 9b/low 10a areas IMO.

Heres a monster in Palm Harbor, FL.

[Tad]

we have them here in south Tx as well.

[Lee in AZ]

Bubba,

Delonix regia are perhaps one of the most popular non fruiting trees in cultivation in Sonora directly to our south.

For AZ specifically you can see the Delonix influence has traveled up from the southern end of our Sonoran Desert.

San Carlos, Sonora Lat: 28.0° N  (taking in early July 2006)

Hermosillo, Sonora Lat: 29.1° N  (taking in early July 2006)

Puerto Penasco, Sonora Lat: 31.3° N  Which is 60 miles south of the AZ border. (Taken in mid August 2006)

Here's another in Puerto Penasco that was no longer flowering this season.

(Taken in mid August 2006)

For Yuma I only have winter pics, however they do flower rather well there in early to mid summer.

Yuma, AZ Lat: 32.7° N  

(Taken during the first week in March 2005)

Another in Yuma.

(Taken during the first week in March 2005)

Tempe, AZ  Lat: 33.4° N  

From Pacificblue2223 photobucket.com album.

(Taken in May of 2006)

Scottsdale, AZ Lat: 33.5° N  

(Taken in late June 2006)

Same tree, closer view.

Phoenix, AZ  Lat: 33.5° N  

(Taken in late June 2006)

Same tree, really bad picture I took from the other side.

And there's one here in 9b Tucson at Lat: 32.2° N.

It's was planted by Warren Jones in the late 1970's. It's been there for going on 30 years. It doesn't flower much but it does flower.

It was hit hard in December of 2003 after back to back nights of 26F. It lost about 10' to 15' off the top of it's 30' canopy.

It's since regrown most of it's canopy over the past 3 summers.

It's a great tree for zone 10 AZ (and certainly the low desert of zone 10 CA). Drought hardy, oblivious to our heat and dry burning sun

once they get past the seedling stage. Able to quickly rebound from multiple light freezes.

Lee

[Dave-Vero]

On the Florida Atlantic coast, there are some fairly big trees here in Vero Beach, and a fair number of trees (probably planted since the catastrophic 1989 freeze) in Brevard County, at least up to Melbourne.  They usually flower once, but may re-flower in fall.

Since they're fast growing, I wonder if it would be possible to put one in a big pot and keep it heavily trimmed--wouldn't be a bonsai, but not rampantly-growing, either.  Just small enough to easily trim after cold damage, or to haul inside.

[galveston1602]

they are not "common" here but they can be seen in pretty large sizes if you look around.

I just couldnt pass up a 7 gal for 9$ last weekend so i will soon have my own.  

anyone know any other (nice) trees that would make some decent shade (for palms) in my yard

[epicure3]

They will grow, but not flower here in more marine influenced areas of SoCal. There is a flowering tree in Fullerton in Orange County.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

You guys in Cali and AZ, do you notice more vibrant color if the Delonix is not heavily irrigated?  Down here in FLA I have noticed that trees seem to be darker red in the dry Keys or in unirrigated lots.

Jerry

[epicure3]

(Jerry@TreeZoo @ Sep. 28 2006,22:08)

QUOTE

You guys in Cali and AZ, do you notice more vibrant color if the Delonix is not heavily irrigated?  Down here in FLA I have noticed that trees seem to be darker red in the dry Keys or in unirrigated lots.

Jerry

Unfortunately, I have never seen one personally. Since they don't flower along the coast, people don't plant them....or probably even know about them. I will try and find a picture of that one in OC.

Dave.....didn't you take that picture?

[paulgila]

delonix are not "supposed" to grow in socal from everything i've ever heard & i personally have never seen one,but after a few cases of "foot-in-mouth"

disease on other topics i would not be surprised if i am wrong on this.they are being sold around town,tho.

matty b has talked about trying it & seems to be pretty jazzed on the subject...

[Walt]

I would surmise the reason there's not many royal poinciana trees in So. Cal., especially any that bloom, is due to lack of wintertime heat and rainy season (similar to why Cocos nucifera doesn't grow there, less a few  exceptions).

Royal poinciana grow very well here in zone 9b due to, IMO, relatively high wintertime heat, whereas zone 10a, 10b, and even 11 in So. Cal. has far less average wintertime heat. It just shows that there's far more to a hardiness zone than just average low wintertime temperature.

by waltcat100

[Lee in AZ]

Jerry, I don't know if I notice as much of a color variance as a result of heavy irrigation, as much as a dry winter in the Sonoran Desert equals a more prolific blooming season.

Lee

[Randy]

Great looking trees Lee.

Also, what is "IMO"?

[SunnyFl]

There's a big beauty somewhere very near my house - the flowers are amazing.  If I had a larger lot, I'd definitely plant one.  I doubt this is a tree that can be kept small, though.  Wish it were.

If I had the space for them, I'd have delonix, jacaranda and cassia fistula - there's one down my street that I swoon over every spring.

Lee, in the 10th photo, the one in Phoenix, the tall tree in the background is the delonix, correct?  What about the small plant in the lower left corner - is that a sapling delonix - or a caesalpinia pulcherrima?

Also, what is "IMO"?

IMO = In My Opinion

[spockvr6]

(SunnyFl @ Sep. 30 2006,02:58)

QUOTE

What about the small plant in the lower left corner - is that a sapling delonix - or a caesalpinia pulcherrima?

Looks like a Caeselpinia Sunny.  A Delonix would (unfortunately) never bloom that small.

[Eric in Orlando]

Larry, while that is a Caesalpinia in the photo, I have seen A Delonix that small flower. In my dad's old neighborhood near Orlando Intl airport, someone planted 2 D. regia in their front yard. One grew big like a "normal" Delonix while the other grew to about 4-5ft tall and then got the wide spread canopy. It flowered 2 summers as this small specimen  and then died. I was dying to get seed from this tree but it never set any. Imagine a dwarf Royal Poinicana!

[Lee in AZ]

SunnyFl, there's also that medium size Delonix on the west side of Mirror Lake in St. Pete. You should post some pictures of it next spring when it's flowering.

Here's a picture I took of it last fall.

And indeed the smaller flowering shurg is Caesalpinia pulcherrima.

Thanks Randy.

Lee

[Bilbo]

OK guys may I gently suggest you get out a bit more . . . !!!

There were loads of Delies (Red form) in the the D.R. as were witnessed by those of us on the latest Bi.

Also an IPS member is planning to do a mass planting in New Caledonia and indeed possibly holding a Delonix fest out there (Francais spoken mon amis).

We seem to have members everywhere . . . and aint it GREAT!

Regardez

Jon

[DoomsDave]

Delonix will grow well here in So-Cal, but it won't flower well most years.

They want a nice, dry winter, and our winters, except for droughts are too wet for them to bloom well.

Dave

[Alicehunter2000]

(galveston1602 @ Sep. 28 2006,01:00)

QUOTE

they are not "common" here but they can be seen in pretty large sizes if you look around.

I just couldnt pass up a 7 gal for 9$ last weekend so i will soon have my own.  

anyone know any other (nice) trees that would make some decent shade (for palms) in my yard

Try a golden rain tree, there is a varient that is cold hardy and are very tropical looking.

David

[Alicehunter2000]

Do a search.............Koelreuteria paniculata..........Golden Rain Tree. Leaf structure looks similar to a Mimosa (fernlike) but GRT have a much more upright stature and is much more shade producing. The flowers and seedpods are both beautiful and will give you year round color.

David

[MattyB]

Koelreuteria paniculata        

These are going off right now in SoCAl.

[bubba]

Are "Golden Rain"trees the same variety that you see all over the place in Hawai? If so,what caused such a cold hardy tree to be planted in such a tropical climate?

[Alicehunter2000]

"A relative, K. elegans, is native to Taiwan and Fiji. This tree is similar to golden rain tree, but it is less hardy and even more beautiful!"

Quote from Floridata web site.

David

[bubba]

Thank you. That clears up some confusion. Can Floridian's, Californian's, Arizonian's or Texan's grow the Figi variety. It is something.

[Alicehunter2000]

Bubba here is a pic of a Golden Rain Tree in Northwest Florida. These particular trees did not have many seedpods but do have a superior overall shape and leaf fullness and color for the end of October.

David

[spockvr6]

Heres a Rain Tree in Tampa, FL I photographed with my cell phone.

IMO, these are no match for a Delonix in bloom, nor in overall beauty of form.  But, there is no doubting their hardiness as they are to be found in huge numbers all around central FL.  I understand they are quite invasive.

[mnorell]

Note that the Goldenrain tree blooming so magnificently in subtropical areas (Gulf South/Florida, SoCal) is NOT Koelreuteria paniculata, though it is still planted in those areas. That's a temperate-zone tree commonly planted in the north (hardy to zone 5), with coarse foliage (not bipinnate), summer blooms and much less showy pods. The two subtropical/tropical species, Koelreuteria elegans/formosana (zone 9) and Keolreuteria bipinnata (zone 7b/8a) are difficult to distinguish from each other and are often confused in the nursery industry. Both have more graceful, bipinnate foliage than K. paniculata, are late-summer or early-fall-flowering and have magnificent salmon-pink pods that are extremely showy. It is these last two that are planted so commonly in warm areas and get everyone's attention. Make sure you acquire the right species (which can be difficult since the nursery industry sells these latter two almost interchangeably!) They are amazingly showy right now here in Natchez.

[Eric in Orlando]

The one growing in FL is Koelrueteria elegans ssp. formosana. It is hardy into the warmer parts of zone 8b. While it is a nice tree with beautiful flowers and seedpods it is extremely invasive and not recommended for planting. While it is very attractive in fall you will spend the rest of the year ridding your yard of thousands of seedlings (as will your neighbors). Fast growing seedlings that can grow over 5-6 ft tall in less than 2 years. Even if you don't have one of these trees, if someone does within a few blocks often you get seedlings as the seedpods are easily transported by wind. Here at Leu Gardens we removed all our Rain Trees 10 years ago. The Garden is 50 acres and we still get loads of seedlings throughout. It is one of our most dreaded weeds.

Further north, 2 temperate species are grown; K. bipinnata and K. paniculata. Both of these can also produce large amounts of seedlings, especially K. bipinnata.

[Dave-Vero]

Thanks for the info, Eric.  I hadn't realized we had anything but K. paniculata.  

Thinking of fall color, Camellia sasanqua must be flowering in Orlando.  Not exactly a substitute for a poinciana, but probably under-planted in Florida.  They seem to be used a lot in Japanese gardens, along with (let's hear it for the palms), Rhapis.  Also thinking of fall color, Japan is stuffed with persimmon trees whose bright orange fruits stand out even when you're watching from a speeding bullet train.

[Eric in Orlando]

K. paniculata and K. bipinnata do poorly in our heat. They are much better suited to the northern parts of zone 8 and north.

Camellia sasanqua is just beginning to flower. They are late for some reason, the usually start flowering in late Sept./early Oct. I agree, it is underutilized, at least around here.

[Alicehunter2000]

I think he is wanting a shade tree, does Camellia sasanqua get shade tree size?

Loquats get big and are evergreen.

[Dave-Vero]

Camellia sasanqua can reach smallish tree size, given enough time.  Splashy fall-flowering trees for the not-quite-tropics are a bit scarce.  Parkinsonia aculeata flowers earlier, as do crape myrtles.  The latter are remarkably tough, and lots of distinct cultivated varieties are available--so they are worth investigating, and even going to a specialist grower for exactly the right variety.

Christmas cassias (yellow flowers) used to be popular in Jacksonville, but they aren't trees, just kind of floppy, sloppy  bushes.  

Thinking of bright orange trees, right now Japan will be glowing with persimmon orchards and home persimmon trees.

[Alicehunter2000]

My problem is that most tropical looking shade trees here in North Florida are not evergreen. You not only need shade in the summer, but need frost protection and extra warmth in the winter.

If you have the space, Live Oak is a good choice, but it is does not have the flowers or color that one might want. Magnolia is another with the benefit of flowers........but who wants to deal with those leaves that never rot! Love Crepe Myrtles.........have a few, but they take a long time to get to shade tree size if ever. I like the loquats but they have alot of fruit that can be annoying to some.

I really would like to hear some alternatives for those of us in zones 9a/8b/8a. Open for suggestions.

David

[Alicehunter2000]

I have also noticed that Chinaberry trees look tropical and are hardy....but not evergreen.

David

[Eric in Orlando]

If you like crepe myrtles, get Lagerstroemia fauriei, the Japanese CM. They grow fast and get 30-50ft tall. They have small white flowers but the bark exfoliates several times a year revealing a coppery colored trunk. They are deciduous though.

For evergreen trees, here is a list. Some aren't really shade tree size but are nice specimens that are hardy and hold their foliage. The 3 maples hvae unlobed leaves and are very "unmaple like".

Acca sellowiana- Feijoa or Pineapple Guava

Acer coriaceifolium

Acer fabri- Chinese Evergreen Maple

Acer oblongum

Bischofia polycarpa

Camellia sinensis var. assamica- Largeleaf Tea Camellia

Cinnamomum chekiangensis

Cinnamomum japonicum

Cinnamomum jensianum

Dendropanax trifidus

Elaeocarpus decipiens- Japanese Blueberry Tree

Eriobotrya deflexa- Bronze Loquat

Eucalyptus camphora

Eucalyptus cinerea- Silver Dollar Eucalyptus

Eucalyptus microtheca

Eucalyptus neglecta

Eucalyptus nicholii- Peppermint Eucalyptus

Eucalyptus pulverulenta

Eucalyptus viminalis

Exbucklandia populnea

Gordonia lasianthus- Loblolly Bay (Florida native)

Ilex cassine- Dahoon Holly (Florida native)

Ilex integra- Nepal Holly

Ilex latifolia- Lusterleaf Holly

Ilex rotunda

Ilex vomitoria ‘Pendula’- Weeping Yaupon Holly (Florida native)

Ligustrum lucidum- Chinese Privet Tree

Lithocarpus edulis

Magnolia insignis (formerly Manglietia)

Magnolia lotungensis (formerly Manglietia)

Magnolia madiae (formerly Michelia)

Magnolia virginiana var. australis- Sweetbay Magnolia (Florida native)

Magnolia wilsonii (formerly Michelia)

Magnolia yunnanensis (formerly Parakmeria)

Nageia nagi- Nagi or Broadleaf Podocarpus (formerly Podocarpus)

Neolitsea sericea- Japanese Silver Tree

Osmanthus fragrans- Sweet Osmanthus

Persea borbonia- Redbay (Florida native)

Persea palustris- Swampbay (Florida native)

Persea thunbergii- Tabu-no-ki (formerly Machilus)

Phoebe chekiangensis

Phoebe neurantha

Podocarpus elatus

Podocarpus macrophyllus

Quercus fusiformis

Quercus geminata- Sand Live Oak (Florida native)

Quercus glauca- Japanese Evergreen Oak

Querucs laeta

Quercus myrsinifolia- Bamboo-leaf Oak

Querucs myrtifolia- Myrtle Oak (Florida native)

Quercus polymorpha

Quercus suber- Cork Oak

Schefflera delavayi

Viburnum odoratissimum- Sweet Viburnum

Viburnum odoratissimum var. awabuki- Mirrorleaf Viburnum

[Alicehunter2000]

Wow---your gave me some homework to do.

David

[spockvr6]

(spockvr6 @ Oct. 31 2006,10:34)

QUOTE

Heres a Rain Tree in Tampa, FL I photographed with my cell phone.

IMO, these are no match for a Delonix in bloom, nor in overall beauty of form.  But, there is no doubting their hardiness as they are to be found in huge numbers all around central FL.  I understand they are quite invasive.

Guys-

I made an error on the ID of this tree.

I believe it is actually Chorisia speciosa, or Silk Floss Tree.  I looked more closely at it today while driving by and the trunk (which is massive) is covered in thorns and the flowers are not like those on the Rain Tree.