XButyagrus EVERYWHERE!!!

[merrill]

XButyagrus EVERYWHERE!!!

Posted by merrill on 8/20/2008, 2:01 am

75.89.21.166

Mule palms [i. e., XButyagrus] are being produced by many palm devotees. It would be wise for growers to NOT hold them for higher prices; there may even be over-production! This ad appeared on another board:

QUOTE:

:""-South Palms and Subtropicals

[ Post a Response | Mid-South Palms and Subtropicals ]

Mule palm xbutyagrus

Posted by Erik on 7/26/2008, 5:41 pm""

Hello my name is Erik. I am looking for growers or nurseries who are interested in growing mule palms xbutyagrus. Looking for bulk sales only of 50 or more can provide bare root seedlings up to year and a half in age. Can ship up to 500 seedlings by order.

This is a rare cold hardy hand pollinated hybrid. Can provide photos.

Please contact me at eriktampabay@Yahoo.com

Or sales@mulepalm.com

END QUOTE!

[PalmGuyWC]

This is the same guy who made the same offer in a thread on Palm Talk some weeks ago. He claimed his mules were superior because they were hand pollinated with fresh pollen.

Dick

[The Germinator]

Did he get the pollen from Camarron?

[PalmGuyWC]

We told him it didn't matter if the pollen was fresh or frozen so long as the pollen was still viable and could fertilize a female flower. He wanted to argue about it and insisted that fresh pollen would make a superior hybrid. I say, "hogwash!" It's always nice to have pollen on hand when the female flowers reach anthesis, because there is a narrow time frame for pollination. It sort of reminds me of the old saying, "If your hot, your hot and if your not, your not."

Anyway, I agree with Merrill, Mules (Butiagrus) are becoming a glut on the market as many are doing it. but that's OK as they are beautiful and they go beyond the range of Syagrus. Also, some of the newer Butiagrus are being crossed with different species of Butias and they may look different.

Dick

[Mark Heath]

Yeah,,, it's the same guy. Frozen pollen/sperm is about the same thing, my sister who is'nt married had been fertilized by a "frozen donor", and has a beautifull baby girl about 5 years old now and is smart as any child i've seen that age!!!

"Pushy sales guy" comes to mind!!!!

Merrill, i agree w/ you that the Xbutiagrus is being produced heavily! I am growing my guys to be specimens for the State and County and the Expressway authority, people like that. It's too much of a headache dealing w/ the public because the normal "joe" will come to your place of buisness and nit-pic for about an hour or so and MAYBE buys something. The local landscaper knows what he wants as far as clean trunk/price and takes little of your time and leaves w/ a truckload!!! That is who i'm targeting!!!! Wholesale!! That is why i have'nt pushed my XButiagrus's because

i'm waiting to fill my 5 acre tract that i have down south before i start selling 3 gallon sizes.

I do hear you though, and thanks for the advise, but i'm YEARS ahead of these guys! My first batch that i produced is starting to develop a clean trunk and they're about 12-14ft tall OA. i HAVE YOU TO THANK Merrill!!

Mark

[merrill]

Mark:

You're welcome! BTW, your intermediary never did get those plants to me - Best Wishes,

merrill

[tank]

Merrill,

I agree with you. I also wonder what the top end price for a large mule would be? I can't imagine folks would be willing to pay that much more for a large (6'+ trunk) mule than a date palm, or pindo, or a large European fan palm of a similar size. The benefit is that the mule should obtain that size more quickly than most of those palms. I've tried to buy a couple mules from a very nice fellow in town who has a BUNCH of mules, but he won't sell any because he wants to get them to specimin size. At the 3 or 7 gallon size, these palms seem to go for 3 or 4 times more than a pindo of the same size. I can't imagine you could use the same multiplier on a mule with 6' of trunk (ie, a 6' pindo might cost $600 vs a 6' mule at $2400).

I'm guessing you won't beable to unload these in mass at high prices.

[Mark Heath]

Hello Merrill,

Sorry you did'nt get the plants that i brought for you! If get my hands on some others, i'll bring them to you myself!

Jason,

You need to understand why the XButiagrus is so expensive verses a Butia/Pheonix of the same size. It is a pain-in-the-butt to produce the Mule and there is little work w/ producing the common palms, the palm does all the work for you!!!

The XButiagrus grows much faster than the common Butia and is still more rare than the Butia,(well, for now)! I don't plan on selling my guys for a pretty penny like some others are doing, i do plan on getting what they're worth though! But like i said earlier, a common guy will try and "knock your prices down" and basically be a waiste of time! That is the reason why so many nurseries are wholesale and not retail because of the headaches invoved w/ the (bargain hunter)! I am sure you've visited nurseries that were wholesale and you wondered why they turned you away. I used to think that myself, now i know why! I will offer my palms at a fair price when the time comes, and when i get the "haggle" guy

i'll politely send him down the road! I have been VERY fortunate to have met guys like Jeff Searle who took the time w/ me to walk me through his place and let me buy palms from him, but every time i was there, i bought as many palms as i could and did'nt try and knock his price down, he has ALLWAYS had great prices!! And as a fellow nurseryman i understand more than the common joe.

Oh, and Jason if you're in Orlando, and plan on BUYING a XButiagrus, look me up, i'll sell you one no sweat. I usually don't sell them, but why not!!!

[tank]

Mark,

I've completed a successful cross of a butia x syagrus and am working on a couple more, with a bunch of help and info from a couple folks on this board, so I've got at least some idea of how much time it takes. I've also learned that its worth finding short, flowering butias as the one I crossed had over 13' of trunk . I've since found a nice flowering pindo in a 35 gal pot with inflorescences at waist level so I'm excited about not breaking out the ladder.

My only take on this is that I don't think there is a MASS retail market for big, expensive mule palms. Especially when many folks have independently been building up their inventory with specimen mules so they can sell out and retire (lol). Just wondering how much demand there is for these if the price is high. This is just my take on it.

Also, I live in Gainesville, but I will track you down if I need a mule now that you've offered, especially at wholesale prices! I might even get two, but I'll probably talk to you for a couple of hours and potentially haggle, so be prepared.

[tank]

Mark,

I will also differ to your judgement on the market for these plants. My comments were colored by the fellow I know that is field growing a bunch of mules like you have done, although your 12' plants are far and away larger than what I believe he has.

I can't imagine what a 14' mule would sell for.

On a side note, they are selling large 3 gal (they actually might be 5 gal) Bismarks here in Gainesville for $16.99. I think they were going for about $40+ 3 or 4 years ago. I'm guessing this is an example of increased availability.

[AJQ]

There was one that was on sale for £6000/$12000 in UK last year!

Normally they are about £500/$1000 for one of a similar size to this one, which I got for £350/$700 ! Ouch!!!

Regards Andy.

[PalmGuyWC]

I don't want to pop anyone's baloon, but as Merrill said, I think they are going to be very plentifull soon, as there are a lot of people doing it now. Naturally, there will be competition and the prices will come down. I'm real curious, what would a mule with 3 or 4 feet of woody trunk go for now? I guess it depends on where your located too.

I was fortunate when I got mine about 35 years ago. There was a guy in central Florida who had a number of them, all natural hybrids, and I think I paid about $12 for 1 gallon size, but they were good sized plants and ready for a move up. They grow incredably fast, and in no time I had good sized palms.

Once the mules are planted in public places and the general public sees what they are, the individual damand may go up. When they show up in Home Depot, that's when I chop mine down. Just kidding, as I wouldn't think of such a thing.

Dick

[DoomsDave]

I remember when the Majesty Palm first hit the scene, and it created a sensation. A guy had a HUGE one at the Pacific Hort Show in LA in 1995(?) and he wanted $10K for it.

We laugh now, but people were willing to pay.

He was asking $250 for 15 galloners at that time, too!

Times do change, and I can see the thundering herd of mules . . .. .

[DoomsDave]

There was one that was on sale for £6000/$12000 in UK last year!

Normally they are about £500/$1000 for one of a similar size to this one, which I got for £350/$700 ! Ouch!!!

Regards Andy.

Nice to see you back!

[Tampa Scott]

I have seen lots of them in my area of Tampa. I am still awed by them. When I was trying to find it 11yrs ago I could not. My own Butia took care of that problem and has produced lots of them. I have 5 in ground at this time and plan on putting in more. The 5 I have kept show a little different variation in them.

[osideterry]

Like Foxy Ladies, this sounds like another affordable palm in Florida, but very hard to find (expensive) in California. Maybe it's just not desirable here, as I've never seen one listed with our palm nurseries.

[PalmGuyWC]

Terry,

I'm surprised none of the palm nurserys in S. Calif. don't have them as they are available, but they are a little pricey, but well worth the money. They look like a tropical palm, but are very cold hardy and will take a lot of frost. There is a lot of veariation in them. I have 3 and no two look alike.

Dick

[_Keith]

Like Foxy Ladies, this sounds like another affordable palm in Florida, but very hard to find (expensive) in California. Maybe it's just not desirable here, as I've never seen one listed with our palm nurseries.

They are just as hard to find, and probably even more expensive here in Louisiana. I now have 4 of them, and I have to say, I am not at all sure about the balance between hype and reality on these things.

If I could grow as many cool palms here, as you can in So. Cal, I probably would not have even given them a good look or paid what I paid for them.

[Mark Heath]

The Mule palm is deffinatly becoming more avaliable to everyone, which is good and bad for me! I don't plan on selling mine w/ a high price like other people i've seen have, i plan on wholesale. Like i told Merrill, half the reason i started producing Mules was to make them avaliable to people like myself. Before i started producing them, I had to wait for a lone single nursery called

Rockledge Gardens to have one avaliable. I paid $150 for a 15gallon. I still think that is a fair price for retail!

Jason, i'll sell you a 3gallon for $40. No haggling, if you don't like the price, then please don't waiste my time or yours!!

Expecially yours, seeing it's a LONG drive from Gainesville to me to leave w/ nothing!!! I do welcome the chit-chat though!

Mark

[tank]

The Mule palm is deffinatly becoming more avaliable to everyone, which is good and bad for me! I don't plan on selling mine w/ a high price like other people i've seen have, i plan on wholesale. Like i told Merrill, half the reason i started producing Mules was to make them avaliable to people like myself. Before i started producing them, I had to wait for a lone single nursery called

Rockledge Gardens to have one avaliable. I paid $150 for a 15gallon. I still think that is a fair price for retail!

Jason, i'll sell you a 3gallon for $40. No haggling, if you don't like the price, then please don't waiste my time or yours!!

Expecially yours, seeing it's a LONG drive from Gainesville to me to leave w/ nothing!!! I do welcome the chit-chat though!

Mark

Sold!

[osideterry]

Before I get shot down... I just looked up Jungle Music, and Phil has them. The price is reasonable. J. D. Andersen lists them as new, and if the size is decent per the pot it's in, not a bad deal either. This must be a newer development, as I'm sure I would have seen them before.

[Mark Heath]

Before I get shot down... I just looked up Jungle Music, and Phil has them. The price is reasonable. J. D. Andersen lists them as new, and if the size is decent per the pot it's in, not a bad deal either. This must be a newer development, as I'm sure I would have seen them before.

Terry,

Phil has his listed as Strap seedlings, but i would say that they're a good-sized one gallon. They're very healthy! Phil has been selling them for quite a long time now so i would't say that this is a new development. I'm surprised you did'nt know Phil was selling these seeing you live in Cali as well! If i lived in Cali, i would deffinatly visit his nursery quite often! He has a first-class operation!

[Gaston in Argentina]

Wow Andy

Your Butiagrus look very nice in Ireland!

Congratulations!

Cheers, Gaston

There was one that was on sale for £6000/$12000 in UK last year!

Normally they are about £500/$1000 for one of a similar size to this one, which I got for £350/$700 ! Ouch!!!

Regards Andy.

[_Keith]

There was one that was on sale for £6000/$12000 in UK last year!

Normally they are about £500/$1000 for one of a similar size to this one, which I got for £350/$700 ! Ouch!!!

Regards Andy.

Sweet.

[osideterry]

Mark - I make it by Jungle Music a couple times a year. I'm either looking for something specific, or wandering around aimlessly looking for something cool. Just never saw Butiagrus.

[Gtlevine]

There can never be enough Mules. It would take years of supplies to get them out of the hobbyist and into all the nurseries. My hope is this great palm will become a dime a dozen palms and replace Queens for the average landscape and street tree. Lets not forget, as Mules increase in supply, there will be more F2's and other variations of the hybrids for the collector to pursue. So keep on producing them, rare means nothing to me but a high price, I want beautiful palms that grow in So Cal for cheap or reasonable prices.

Gary

[Randall SD]

Hi Terry

I can vouch for Jungle Music having the Foxy Ladies. I picked this one up last month at the BBQ/Sale and saw a least 10 others in the same location.

[Ray]

The Mule palm is deffinatly becoming more avaliable to everyone, which is good and bad for me! I don't plan on selling mine w/ a high price like other people i've seen have, i plan on wholesale. Like i told Merrill, half the reason i started producing Mules was to make them avaliable to people like myself. Before i started producing them, I had to wait for a lone single nursery called

Rockledge Gardens to have one avaliable. I paid $150 for a 15gallon. I still think that is a fair price for retail!

Jason, i'll sell you a 3gallon for $40. No haggling, if you don't like the price, then please don't waiste my time or yours!!

Expecially yours, seeing it's a LONG drive from Gainesville to me to leave w/ nothing!!! I do welcome the chit-chat though!

Mark

Where are you located, and what is the name of your nursery?

[Mark Heath]

Hello Ray,

I'm a grower, so i don't have a nursery per say. My place east of Orlando is where i live but 2 acres of my property is where i grow my

stock up to 3 gallon sizes. When they're ready to repot, i then take them to my 5 acre tract in Lake Wales to grow to specimen size. That's when i'll start selling them.

Breezy Palms Growers LLC is the name.

[Ray]

Hello Ray,

I'm a grower, so i don't have a nursery per say. My place east of Orlando is where i live but 2 acres of my property is where i grow my

stock up to 3 gallon sizes. When they're ready to repot, i then take them to my 5 acre tract in Lake Wales to grow to specimen size. That's when i'll start selling them.

Breezy Palms Growers LLC is the name.

Okay Mark, I have been interested in getting a Mule for a while and was curious as to where you were located.

[ErikSJI]

Too many Mule palms? I think not.

[ErikSJI]

More photos. Is there anyone out there getting double or triple Mule palms?? I would like to see photos if anyone else has them.

[ErikSJI]

Here is a great photo of a single, double, and triple mule bare root seedling.

[ErikSJI]

Here is another photo. All mule palms were purchased from Mule palm nursery. www.mulepalm.com

[DoomsDave]

Wow Andy

Your Butiagrus look very nice in Ireland!

Congratulations!

Cheers, Gaston

There was one that was on sale for £6000/$12000 in UK last year!

Normally they are about £500/$1000 for one of a similar size to this one, which I got for £350/$700 ! Ouch!!!

Regards Andy.

GASTON!

Nice to see you again!

Hope you appear more often . . . .

[DoomsDave]

Hmm.

If mules don't produce seeds at all . . . .

That would certainly make them a plus here in California. The big [expletive] a lot of people have about queens is that they set those mountains of seeds, which makes people fall down like on marbles.

Buteas have seeds and fruit -- ugh, messy! -- and they're waaaay too slow.

Buteagrus is the perfect medium, fast, pretty and no seeds. And, hardy as the Vikings of old, what's NOT to fall head-over-heels in love with?

Buteagrus needs a nifly marketing slogan . . . .

Hmm.

Given the fect that the average person could not produce their own, they'd be an awesome crop for someone willing to take the initiative, until saturation sets in IMHO.

"no seeds no weeds . . . ."

Sigh . . . .

[ErikSJI]

This is the same guy who made the same offer in a thread on Palm Talk some weeks ago. He claimed his mules were superior because they were hand pollinated with fresh pollen.

Dick

You got that wrong. What I claimed was we had a higher success rate pollinating with fresh pollen, and that we were producing doubles, and triples by using fresh pollen. Higher success rate means more mule palms. Get it right before you quote me.

[Tala]

All Butia and Syagrus, in fact every Cocosoid palm seed (save Attalea, not sure on Beccario.) potentially can have as many as three embryos, or down to none (= non viable). Attalea can produce more, once had an A.speciosa germinate 6 plants over the course of the 3+ yrs! Its interesting that crossed seed carries this characteristic over, never seen that here. But I don't intentionally propagate them, they sorta pop up on accident now and then.

[ErikSJI]

All Butia and Syagrus, in fact every Cocosoid palm seed (save Attalea, not sure on Beccario.) potentially can have as many as three embryos, or down to none (= non viable). Attalea can produce more, once had an A.speciosa germinate 6 plants over the course of the 3+ yrs! Its interesting that crossed seed carries this characteristic over, never seen that here. But I don't intentionally propagate them, they sorta pop up on accident now and then.

Would love to see a picture o that A. speciosa

[freakypalmguy]

This is the same guy who made the same offer in a thread on Palm Talk some weeks ago. He claimed his mules were superior because they were hand pollinated with fresh pollen.

Dick

You got that wrong. What I claimed was we had a higher success rate pollinating with fresh pollen, and that we were producing doubles, and triples by using fresh pollen. Higher success rate means more mule palms. Get it right before you quote me.

Butia capitata naturally produce seeds with three windows. I think it would be safe to say that any offspring might show the same characteristics irregardless of the father. I don't think it has anything to do with your pollination techniques.