Huge Palm, Cycad & Tropical Plant Sale

[osideterry]

This is the most entertaining "For Sale" thread ever.

[Phil]

Well Guys,

The picture did it. The Z. gentryi is sold. I'll miss it.

I thought I'd tell you a story. One Saturday this fellow came to the Nursery. He said he wanted a "Dypsis malcomberi". Most of you will remember that this is a rare Madagascar Dypsis described by Henk Beentje about 10 years ago. Well, this fellow only wanted one plant, the malcomberi. Luckily we had one. It wasn't big. He said he didn't care and wanted to check out. No questions. No inquires. I had him fill out the invoice with his name and address and guess what? It was Mr. Malcomberi himself. It had been named after him and he just wanted to grow one. Cool.

In the same spirit, I'm waiting for Mr. Normamby to come by. Here's some pictures of Normambya normabyi. It is often mistaken for a Foxtail, a Fishtail and who knows what else. The key to recognizing the Black Palm is looking at the underside of the leaflets. You'll see the gray discoloration. It's a skinny palm and quite beautiful. Below is a 15g about 8 to 9 feet tall.

Normambya normambyi

Normambya trunk. It sort of looks like a Veitchia but too skinny.

Top of the leaflets: green (with a dot or two of the white paint we use to paint the greenhouse roof)

Now the underside of the leaflets; note silver color

I once had about a 15 foot Normambya. It was gorgeous. It got AM sun and was really nice. I hired a tree trimmer who must have aimed at the crown. He was trimming up a Ficus nitida overhead. With one drop of a small Ficus limb, it was gone. Perhaps my garden was too plush with plants anyway.

Phil

[Jonathan]

No more Phil.....I cant stand it any longer...I'm gonna get the first plane outa here and set up camp in your nursery!

I'll live on humid air and palm vapours, I'll renounce Darwin for Lamarck and grow more palm-like everyday; eventually you'll cease to notice that I'm human, till one day I'll be potted up into a 10g container and Bill 'BS Man' will take me home on a weird ladder like contraption....

....think I better lay off the old Hunter Valley Semillon....but when you're confronted with CIDP, Bangalows and Trachycarpus in every nursery, well, you get kinda wistful.

The rig is ready and waiting....

Nooooo.......I aint gittin' on dat ting....ya caint maik meh......

[Phil]

Janathan,

I'm setting up a cot in the greenhouse so you can sleep there. Lots of oxygen.

I don't know how much longer I'll keep this thread going. When I look for topics on this List to look at, my personal viewpoint is that, if a thread is too long, it sort of intimidates me. I think "this might be interesting but it's big and I don't have the time to digest all this". This might be where this thread is heading. So, for a few more days, I'll show some more pics and tell a several stories and then we should let it fade away.

I've tried to give people a flavor of what we have at our Nursery. There's simply a lot of plants in all sizes; actually about a quarter of a million. One of the benefits of being a nursery that has been around for so long is that there's many sizes to pick from and quite a few hidden treasures. You'll find this to be true in old, established nurseries. You might find at some nurseries you are told, "Sorry, but that one's not for sale. It's for my personal garden" or something like that. I got over that a long time ago. I grow the plants to sell and everything is for sale. You find it and you can buy it. I might have my favorites, but I just don't cling onto something because it's overly special or something that I "have to keep for myself". And, just the same, I have new favorites every week.

Dypsis pusilla is the smallest species of the group of Madagascar palms that we used to call "Vonitra". (I miss the genus Vonitra; cool name). It is not a tall palm and typically single trunk. It comes from the Masoala Peninsula. It has a hairy trunk. The plant below is about 10 years old and in a 15g. The white background tarp helps you see the leaves.

This photo shows the shaggy trunk.

Phil

[Phil]

I really have a lot of affinity for Pinanga. This genus is tropical appearing and really lures the observer into its beauty. When I first visited Hawaii about 25 years ago and trecked off to Lyon Botanical Garden outside of Honolulu, I was taken by Pinanga coronata and Pinanga kuhlii. I had no idea if these species would grow in Southern California, but I had to give them a try. So, back I came with seeds and began to grow both. And, they suceeded and now I have towering plants overhead with lots of seeds being produced. However, I was really disappointed when John Dransfield (on a subsequent trip) told me that they were both the same species. I'd look and kuhlii with its irregular grouping of leaflets and skinny leaflets next to wide leaflets and think in no way does this look like the more regular, repetitive leaflets of coronata. But, remember that it's all about the flowers; if the flowers are the same, despite differences in morphological appearance, it's the same species. We growers persist to this day in distinguishing these two "species", but taxonomists lump them together. And, I must admit that I've seen plants that are "tweeners" with leaflets showing characteristics of both. Regardless, Pinangas are something that every palm enthusiast should attempt to grow because of their beauty.

Pinanga coronata, 15g, about six feet tall

Pinanga coronata leaf

Pinanga coronata, a look at the base and its suckering nature

[freakypalmguy]

I really enjoy this thread Phil. Kind of like the "palm and cycad of the day". Start another one if this one gets out of hand.

I laughed when you mentioned nurseries that will not sell certain items. It reminded me of my first trip to Reinholds in Fallbrook. All the real good stuff was called "government property" and he is the gubmint. It was funny but frustrating at the same time. Every time my wife or I spotted something nice or unusual, Reinhold would sound off "Nope sorry, that's government property".

Take care,

Matt

[Phil]

Matt,

What are you doing up at this wee hour of the morning? I thought I was the only early bird in these parts. Or, maybe you're like me; can't wait to get up and surf palms. Regarding plants "not for sale", I hear this from customers all the time. Personally, I don't understand this phenomena seen with some nurseries. Having been in business for a very long time, I've come to find that certain things will always annoy customers. One is saying "Sorry, that's not for sale". Another is "Oh, you found that big one. I'll have to charge you more for that one". I'll admit that sometimes I sort of get a lump in my throat when this happens, but I always stick to container size pricing on palms. (can't do it with cycads) And, I'll say "Wow! You found a nice one" and give them that price whether they got an oversized plant or not. The reason I do this is because it's the right thing to do and also because I love seeing their pride and glee when they find such a plant. It's a real win for the customer. I like that.

Phil

[freakypalmguy]

Matt,

What are you doing up at this wee hour of the morning? I thought I was the only early bird in these parts. Or, maybe you're like me; can't wait to get up and surf palms.

Phil

Yep, I'm an early bird. Cup-O-java and palm talk is how I start every morning

Matt

[Phil]

For those who don't know, Matt lives in a city named Temecula. This city is not on the Coast but rather inland along the Hwy 15 corridor. It gets really hot there. But, it also has potential for very cold winters. I find that people in areas like this will often push the envelope when they're newbies and take their losses with more tender tropical species. Then they'll get smart and approach the garden in another way; take advantage of the heat and grow species that will take some cold but love the heat. Interestingly enough, cycads sort of fill this void. They, in general, are a lot more cold tolerant than palms. And, they absolutely love the heat. One has to adjust sun requirements, but cycads do really well in areas like Temecula. So, with this in mind, I'll show some pictures of Dioons, which are a type of cycad. Dioons are New World cycads and most come from Mexico. There's also some from Central America. Most are very cold tolerant.

Dioon edule variety edule. I show this photo because it's easy to grow, doesn't get big, takes full sun in inland areas, is very cold tolerant and fairly easy to obtain. This one's a female. A male cone looks more like a corn cob.

The following one is likewise a Dioon edule variety. I would probably call this one Dioon "rio verde" as a varietal name. It has the same growth requirements as the plant above.

I'll show you something unusual below. Many years ago I heard about a Dioon called "Dioon minima". It was a very small plant as the name would imply, tyically the size of a grapefruit, and had a furry caudex. I had a few of these and long ago I sold them. But, there has never been a published name or description for this "species". About 10 years ago I got another peculiar small Dioon. However, it was different from the "minima" that I had grown previously. The two pictures below show it. I only have one plant. It is coning at a tiny size and it is apparent that it's never going to be a big plant. I don't know what to call it, so let's refer to it as "super dwarf". This group likes the usage of the word "super", especially with Dypsis.

Dioon sp. "super dwarf" in cone. 5g pot. Male cone. The caudex size is under 3 inches.

A closeup of the male cone. Note the pointed leaflets, typical of Dioons.

Phil

[Phil]

That very last picture amazes me. Can you imagine a reproductive part (in this case the cone) that is bigger than the caudex of the plant itself? Quite amazing. If you think about it, that little caudex (trunk of the cycad) had to produce something that emerged from its top and is as wide as the body of the stem. Man, that takes a lot of energy. The Palm Corypha makes a huge flower, but it's a huge palm with more biomass. That little cycad is kicking butt for a little guy.

Chamaedorea plumosa is known by many. But, in case there's some out there who don't know this species, I thought I'd talk a bit about it. It's a tall, thin Chamaedorea that first appeared on the market about 15 years ago. It is strikingly similar to Chamaedorea glaucifolia and undoubtedly was confused with this in previous years. It's most striking characteristic is its ability to tolerate direct sunlight along the Coast or perhaps a bit inland. It gets at least 14 to 15 feet tall and has very thin leaflets and the leaves have a "fluffy" appearance. It is a very quick grower. Multiples (two or three together in one pot) look great.

Chamaedorea plumosa, 5g container, six feet tall. We have bigger for sale, but this is the one I photographed.

Now a non-palm. I grow some companion plants. Included in this are Philodendron, Ti, Heliconaia, Alocasia, Calocasia, Croton, etc. I do this because there's an art to creating a beautiful garden and it requires things other than palms. Take for instance a yard of only dirt. Now, plant a few palms and look at the yard. With dirt at the base and only palms, the garden looks incomplete. Add lower-level palms or cycads and it looks better. But, still it's not done. Now add some colorful or intersting companion plants and top dress the dirt with mulch or shavings and the garden looks great.

Here's Philodendron Congo. Some call it "Black Congo" and others "Red Congo". There's quite a few variations of these larger leaf Philodendrons. Some climb trunks; others make a rosette. This one doesn't climb as far as I know. In my garden at home I have Syngonium and Philodendron climbing 30 feet up the trunks. This Philodendron does not like much direct light.

Maryojejya darianii was named to honor Mardi Darian, who most of you have heard of. It is known as a "litter trapping" palm because it has huge, near solid leaves that form a funnel-like crown. Leaves and debri from above drop into this funnel and collect near the growth point of the plant. I suspect Mother Nature designed it as such so it would collect its own source of Nitrogen. It is from Madagascar.

Marojejya darianii: I can't remember but I think it's in either a 2g or 5g

But, can it be grown in Southern California? You previously saw Mardi's plant outdoors in San Marcos. It's about 7 or 8 feet tall. Below is a picture of one taken last winter (cold) in El Cajon, CA. It's biggest leaf is 12 feet. It has been in the ground for an estimated 10 years and made it through Winter 07, our worst winter for 60 years.

.

Phil

[Phil]

Just as a reminder to all, the point of this thread was not only to educate people but also remind them that we're giving 20% off on all our nursery stock. For example (for most species of palms), we have good sized 1g for $28 (some 4 years old), beautiful 5g palms, some of which are six feet all, for $52. And, some of our 15g plants are huge; up to 12 feet. These are $140. Some species may be a bit more, but not by much. Also, I think you'll appreciate that our plants are very beautiful and well-grown. They've seen cold winters as we essentially don't heat our greenhouse. When you consider the quality of our plants, I think the prices are a great deal.

Calyptronoma rivalis is an interesting plant. The leaflets are thin, the crown full, and it's quite attractive. Walt Frey first told me 20 years ago that he was growing one outdoors in Orange County, CA. I think in the right location, it can be grown in our locality. Here's a 15g plant aged approximately 6 years. It's about 6 feet tall.

Here's a picture of the base of the plant above.

Here's a few photos of larger plants in the garden. The first one was taken at the home of Gary Michels in Pacific Beach. The PSSC toured his garden about 2 years ago. His plant is a bit yellow, but the photo was taken in the Spring after a very cold winter.

Phil

[Phil]

Good Morning!

I don't know why, but this morning I wanted to talk about what's it's like to run a nursery; at least, the kind of nursery that I have. We are known as a propagating specialty nursery. This means basically that we specialize and grow our own material. Contrast this with a typical retail nursery where trucks with plants show up and stock your display areas. You can just sit back, drink coffee and wait for customers to arrive. Our nursery is different from this. There's always work to be done.

Consider this: With the numbers of plants that we have, if one man were to repot every plant into the next size up and we figured an average of 4 minutes to do each plant (from band to box size), it would take him a little under six years to finish the job with what we have in stock. If all my staff were to work on it, we might finish in a year if that's all we did. This is sort of overwhelming, isn't it?

The picture below is of one of our tables with small plants of various sizes. Let's do some repotting!

Oh, you've got lots of muscles. Let's tackle these.

Or these:

My point is that there's always work to be done. People often ask me, "Have you ever been up to Tom's Nusery" or "over to Joe's house" or "seen the palms at Buba's Cafe". The answer is typically, "No". There's just always so much work to do. If you are the kind of person who would rather pot up palms than do anything else, drop by and we'll put you to work.

My next post will be back to palms.

Phil

[Phil]

Rhopalostylis are quite beautiful plants. Over the past ten to fifteen years we've been able to get seeds from not only the mainland of New Zealand but also from the surrounding islands offshore. This has proved to b quite exciting as some of these, when grown, do look different. Below is an example of this. Rhopalostylis sapida "Little Barrier Island" is a robust variety that is quite beautiful. For those who know the regular sapida, note how the leaves are a little more reflexed and curved. It's not as "wedgey". It's one of my favorites.

Rhopalostylis sapida "Little Barrier Island":

Base of same plant in a 15g, about 5 to 6 years old

Dictyosperma is a genus that many are successfully growing in our area. One of my favorites is D. furfuracea. It has a lot of silver in the crown and on the base portions of the petiole. The leaves show this a bit as well. When larger, I prefer it to the regular Hurrican Palm.

Dictyosperma furfuracea: this is a 15g about six feet tall and about 8 years old from germination.

Base of same plant. You can appreciate the age of the plant by the basal diameter. It's taken a lot of years to get this size.

Phil

[doubravsky]

Phil... I'm really enjoying this thread: both the pics and the information you provide. Keep it coming!

[Phil]

Dave,

You're about the third person in 2 days to email or call me to keep it going. But, remember all those plants I need to repot? Shouldn't I get started? Well, OK. A few more.

One time at a Biennial Meeting I was walking in a garden with John Dransfield and I thought I'd ask him a peculiar question. I said, "John, in your opinion, what's the uggliest palm in the world?" John certainly wouldn't remember what someone told him ten or twenty years ago on a subject like this. But, when you're listening to "the" expert on palms, you listen and remember. He thought for a second and then gave his answer. I was sure he'd pick some dwarf, briarpatch, spiney Phoenix or a scrubby grass leaf dypsis. But no, he chose "Syagrus schizophylla". Now, this was slipping a knife into my palm upbringing. I educated myself on Palms of the World by James MCurrach; all black and white photos. How could John say such a thing about Arikuryroba schizophylla? With a name like that, you have to like it. I didn't care that the name later changed to Syagrus. But, to lose it's name and then be diss'd by the Boss, that was something that stuck with me. Syagrus schizophylla: is it that ugly? I've sold a lot of them. Should I tell people they are ugly? And, they'll grow in Southern California. What a delimna.

Perhaps John might see this thread. He does read posts from time to time, but I doubt he visits the Palm Exchange. In any case, I think it would be cool if he'd come along now is 2008 and defend his choice or give us a new selection.

So, here's a few pictures of Syagrus schizophylla. 15g, 5 or 6 feet tall

Same, showing juvenile foliage

Same, showing the base of this plant. Back in the old days, it was not called a Syagrus because the feeling was that it had modified spines. Look at the basal petiole and you'll see it is trying to make spines. These "spine" are fleshy and won't draw blood. And, you see similar things on a Queen Palm. But, as you know, it's all about the flowers.

"Hi, I'm a Syagrus schizophylla. Am I ugly?"

Phil

[Jonathan]

I think Dr. John may have burnt his retinas out by staring at so much tropical splendor.....cause thats a cute little palm to my cool temperate eyes!

And Phil, this is a great thread, like a mini interactive palm encyclopaedia.

Keep it alive please (and prepare that cot!).

[palmislandRandy]

More photos please. :D Keep em comming!

[Phil]

It's been a while since we've looked at a cycad. Below is a picture of Dioon merolae. It is native to southern Mexico. This is quite an old specimen. They are slow growing. It is one of my very favorite Dioons because of its overlapping leaves, tight crown, and small stature. Along the Coast it likes full sun.

And, now a closeup of the leaves. You'll note that the color is a gray-green. This species is cold hardy to the low twnties at least. If you look closely, you see an old cone at the top of the caudex. That is a male cone. Remember, cycads are sexed just like Ravenea and Chamaedorea.

Phil

[Gbarce]

I can't buy any of your plants from over here but I am really enjoying this thread.

I wish there were more cycad varieties available here.

I hope there are more.

[hulagalnz9]

more photos..more palm knowledge...more stories...please :-)

[Phil]

People who enjoy palms get real excited when a crownshaft, trunk, petiole or leaf displays different colors or textures. We talk about "mealy bug spots" on the petioles; "silver underside to leaves"; "red fuzzy crownshafts"; or, "super silver" decipiens. Have you ever thought about what this means and what results in these appearances that we marvel at? Think of it this way. A plant does something to benefit itself or increase its chances of survival. If it has "mealy bug spots", there is probably a reason. And, it often creates these appearances using tomentum or waxy scales that may or may not have color. In other words, something is added on top of the normal plant tissue.

Why do I bring this up? I do so because these scales and waxes and sometimes hairs can be rubbed off to reveal normal green colored tissue below. If you rub the underside of an Archontophoenix alexandrae, the white rubs off. If you rub the blue-gray color of the base of a Dypsis lanceolata, the color rubs off. And, in time, with weather and atmosphere, it also wears off.

Below is a picture of a juvenile Dypsis lanceolata (as I recall) showing the crown shaft area with freckles and tomentum. It has some brown freckles and silver-gray color.

Look what happens with one good rub of my thumb.

A lot of the color and freckles are gone. This is because these "characteristics" are merely a coating over the native tissue of the plant. Aging results in the same loss of these substances. See next post.

Phil

[Phil]

This same phenomena of loss of tomentum, waxy scale, or hairs applies to entire surfaces of the plant as it ages. A newly exposed crown shaft that one sees when an old crown shaft is removed is always beautiful. It's lush, colorful and a sight to behold. This is when the color of the "Orange Crush" shows. This is when the Wodyetia has that silver thick tomentum. But, as time passes and this area is surpassed by new trunk furher up the stem, these qualities fade and the trunk matures. It's often the same with the bases of interesting petioles.

Below are three pictures of Wodyetia bifurcata. The first shows the crown shaft immediately after removal of an old one. It's loaded with thick beautiful soft tissue added by the plant.

With a little age and further down the trunk, what you see is in the picture below. The white waxy scales have weathered off and the green tissue is showing. You can even see streaks of the future brown trunk showing through.

The base of the same plant is seen below. It shows the woody brown character of the trunk.

At the nursery, customers often request I find them a palm that has a "beautiful green trunk". This is possible with species such as Chamaedorea that live in the shade. But, trunks protect themselves with brown bark when exposed to sun. A big Howea grown under shade cloth can have many feet of beautiful green trunk. Customers love this. But, when placed into the sun, it can literally "sunburn" and turn black. The plant protects itself by producing brown bark. Sun grown Howea in our area always develope a brown woody trunk.

Phil

[Phil]

There's two Chamaedorea that people often get confused. These are: Chamaedorea geonomiformis and ernesti-augusti. Both are single stem, short palms. Both have entire leaves. And, leaves on both are similar shape: almost. And, the difference in leaf shape and size is the key to telling them apart.

Below is a Chamaedorea geonomiformis at our nursery in a one gallon. Pay attention to the shape and characteristics of the leaves.

Here's a picture of another geonomiformis from our gallery. This plant is in the ground in a garden. Note that the leaves are typically longer than they are wide. Overall, the leaves are smaller than an ernesti-augusti. And, when you compare lenth to width of the leaves, they are more narrow and relatively longer.

Below are some pictures of C. ernesti-augusti. This species gets taller (height) than geonomiformis. I've seen old specimens seven feet tall. Look at the leaves. Can you see that they are almost as wide as they are long? Compare them with the leaves above.

Here's a photo of a single leaf of ernesti-augusti.

Above are examples of the basic differences. Mother nature did make problems for us. With 30 years of growing palms, I can say that there are "big leaf" and "small leaf" Chamaedorea ernesti-augusti. And, culture may affect leaf size. I've seen leaves from plants in too much sun that seem to be a lot smaller than they should be. Also, be aware that both of these species prefer protection from full sun. Well grown, both are gorgeous and perfect for those small understory locations.

Phil

[Phil]

In medicine, a doctor during his continuing education will hear lectures year after year on the same subject. Why is this? Two reasons: people forget stuff and each time a subject is reviewed, one learns more about the subject. There's a tendency among people in groups like ours to jump onto the "latest greatest species" threads. This is true especially if it involves a species that one doesn't have and perhaps could get. I appreciate novelty. But, sometimes there's a lot to be learned by reviewing things that one thinks he really knows. Such is the case with Rhapis. This topic will take multiple posts to show all the photos, so be patient.

The prototype plant of this genus is Rhapis excelsa, the Lady Palm. This plant is sold worldwide as a patio plant our houseplant. It can get up to about 12 feet or more. I've seen "varieties" that surpass the height in HI. There are also runty strains that seem to never get over three feet. When one tries to ID a Rhapis, you look at the overall appearance, height of the plant, the leaves, the number of leaflets, the shape of the leaflets and the stems. Compared to Rhapis humilis, R. excelsa tends to be shorter, have more shaggy and rugged-appearing canes, fewer leaflets, and chopped end (not pointed) leaflets. Most variegated Rhapis are forms of R. excelsa. There are coveted dwarf forms as well. As you read these posts, don't get bored. Follow them through as I am going to make comparisons on culture and appearance between the species.

Rhapis excelsa in a 5g pot at the nursery. This species can sometimes be quite thick and full.

A look at the leaf. (note, one leaflet is traumatically torn). Note the fairly wide, blunt tipped leaflets. Note the number of leaflets; not too many.

A closeup of the leaflet

A closer look at the untidy canes. I don't think they are very pretty.

Phil

[Phil]

Here's a few more shots of Rhapis excelsa. First, a bigger plant in a 25g tub.

And, another closeup of a cane.

Here's a variegated Rhapis excelsa. This one has a fair amount of the yellow/white albino character. I personally prefer ones with each leaflet showing the start contrast of yellow to green, preferably with variable thickness of the stripes.

Phil

[Phil]

Now onto Rhapis humilis. In my opinion, Rhapis humilis is a far superior plant. Let's analyze this from a nurseryman or collector's viewpoint. Some may disagree with me here.

1. R. humilis is taller and more aesthetic

2. The canes are prettier; cleaner and more tidy

3. Leaves have more leaflets and are more appealing.

4. The leaflets are more pointed and pleasing.

5. In general, this species tolerates more sun.

First, a few pictures of mature specimens in gardens or botanical settings from my gallery.

Rhapis humilis in full sun. R. excelsa would be scortched in full sun in our area.

Another shot. I think this one is from the LA Botanical Garden.

A closeup of the leaves. Many authorities say that R. humilis has up to 12 leaflets. I disagree. Count them. I see at least 18 or more.

Phil

[Phil]

Now some more shots of Rhapis humilis.

Here's a picture of the leaves from a plant in our greenhouse. (a side comment would be that the color is a little bit off on this plant. When I see this, I give a bit of bloodmeal and in about 4 months the leaves are much more green).

A closeup of a cane. Note how it is nicer appearing than the previous excelsa canes.

The above plant was grown from seed. How can this be? Most authorities agree that all plants around the came from divisions of the same plant. Also, that all are males and that no females exist on this dioecious species. But, I received "Rhapis humilis" seeds from a reputable source years ago and grew them. One could argue that the received seeds were actually Rhapis mulitifida. In time, we'll know more.

Now that I've introduced Rhapis multifida, I'll make a few comments on it. This species first became commercially available about ten to fifteen years ago. It is similar to Rhapis humilis but shorter. It is the perfect patio Rhapis. I would recommend less than full sun. It is very "cute" and "tidy". See below.

Rhapis multifida, garden setting

Like Rhapis humilis, it has a large number of pointed leaflets. Authorities once again say "up to twelve" but most agree it can be many more than this. Another characteristic that one (or several) of the leaflets in the center of the leaf are wider than adjacent leaflets. Look at the following pictures for this.

Phil

[Phil]

Rhapis multifida from our Nursery in a 15g pot.

And a closeup of the canes. They are very nice and clean. When I point out this to a customer, they always prefer the multifida to the excelsa.

Another species: Rhapis laoensis.

Why do I bring up this species? Check the next post.

Note that there are fewer leaflets and most are quite wide.

Phil

[Phil]

I showed the Rhapis laoensis because of the recent introductions of Rhapis hybrids. Certainly, there are natural hybrids in the wild. That last R. multifida I showed you was from wild collected seed in China. It looks a bit different from a more classic example of multifida.

There's a very well known fellow in Southern California named Louis Hooper. He lives in La Habra which is in Orange County. Louis is a fine grower. For some reason he got quite interested in hybridizing Rhapis. He's done various crosses utilizing humilis, multifida, and laoensis. He is also an icon among Southern California palm experts and we dearly appreciate him. Certainly, there are more species of Rhapis which I won't get into at this time. But, these hybrids are very cool. I've been a real fan of Louie's and have grown small plants received from him on to beautiful 15g specimens. Here's a few shots I'll share with you.

From the courtyard at Louis's house, a Rhapis multifida X laoensis:

A container grown plant at our Nurseryof Rhapis humilis X multifida.

And a closer view of the leaf of the hybrida above.

A few comments about growing Rhapis. They can take some cold and don't really like excessive heat. Be careful with fertilizer. Go mild. Bloodmeal will green them up if you see yellow-green leaves.

If you stuck it through all these posts, you're a real trooper. Now that I've been on it for 2 hours, I must quit. I do appreciate feedback so that I know my time spent is for a reason. Thanks.

Phil

[gsn]

Phil,

Excellent FOR SALE thread!

Informative,educational, entertaining,and some very nice pics to boot!

[BS Man about Palms]

We're watching Phil, Keep it up. If nothing else it helps educate those in various parts of the country that can't just hop in the car and toodle over to a nursery like yours and "check it out".

[doubravsky]

Phil,

I log on every morning and go down to the for sale area to see if this thread has been updated. I really enjoyed the Rhapis thread. I've always thought I needed a Rhapis for the front porch, and now that I understand the differences, I realize I need a Mulifida! Thanks again!

Also, I like that you are covering plants I can grow as well as plants I can only dream about. Keep the updates coming!

[kahili]

Thanks so much for this thread! I know it takes valuable time to do it, but I think there are many of us that are soaking it all up. Especially the cultural info. As a grower myself, I know what you mean about not having time to go anywhere ect. When I have a crop going, I hardly ever leave-every am you get up and there is a list of hundreds of things that need doing, and it never goes away or lessens. At least for me (wholesale annual bedding plant/tropicals grower) there is an end to the crop, and I get a few months off (sort of) before the next one starts, but it can get pretty grueling before its over.

If you get a chance, I would love to see some pictures of J. chilensis-the biggest size that you are shipping, as well as some other coldhardy palms-braheas, hybrids etc.

I love my job, but I can't even imagine the fun involved in growing my favorite plant for a living....

[Phil]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the feedback. It certainly helps motivate me to keep this going for a little while more.

You know, some growers just seem to have a hybrid gene in their genetic makeup. There are fellows out there that consider a good day as being one in which they live on a ladder for 8 hours and pollinate flowers. It's not my cup of tea, but I admire them for their dedication. Why do they do this? You might have to individually ask each of them, but I have an idea as to why they do it: just to see if it can be done. If anyone out there wants to instantly become wealthy, hybridize and patent a Cocnut Palm with anything (that doesn't lose the Coconut appearance) and produce large numbers of them. But, I am firmly convinced that the "hybridizers" aren't motivated only by money. Perhaps some might be trying to make more cold-hardy this's or that's. But, I don't think that's all of it. Rather, I think they're motivated by the challenge. Can they do it?

Below are pictures of a Jubaea X Butia. When you see a name like this, the first name is the seed bearing parent. If it was "Butia X Jubaea", the Butia mother produced the seeds. F1 hybrids are when the actual pollen of one palm is put on the flowers of another species (ladder story above). The seeds produced are F1 if the flowers and pollen were from a "pure" species (not hybrids themselves). If one of these plants grew up and then made it's own native seeds, the offspring would be F2. Below are pictures of an F2 Jubaea X Butia in a 5g container.

Leaf of the above

Another view

You might ask, "Who cares" about such a hybrid. That might be a good question. But, for the person who lives in a cold area and wants a "Jubaea-looking" plant more quickly, he definitely cares. This F2 hybrid is much faster than pure Jubaea. And, it has a similar appearance. Or, perhaps you're just impatient for that big trunked pinnate palm. This hybrid makes that a reality in less time.

Who buys such a palm? For our Nursery, it's mostly mail orders to other areas of the country. But, some local enthusiast want them as well. Read on to the next post and you'll see what they look like when they grow.

And for Kalili: We have 24 inch boxed Jubaeas but I don't knw if they could be sipped safely.

Phil

[Phil]

The Los Angeles Arboretum has a good example of the F2 hybrid Jubaea X Butia. Below are pictures of that plant. How does one distinguish between this hybrid and a pure Jubaea? The foliage of the two are similar, but if one examines carefully, there are differences. But, for a quick ID, it's the trunk that shows one has the hybrid. Jubaeas have a more clean, smooth trunk. It is a bit bumpy, but isn't loaded with all the old leaf bases. Even if one cuts them off with care and no remnants, look up near the crown. The hybrid shows more attachments and they look different. Study the photos below and you'll see what I mean.

Jubaea X Butia

This is the plant at the LA Arboretum

A picture of part of the crown. Look, it's got some seeds.

And, here's a shot of the trunk (see leaf base attachments) with a friend of mine, David Minks, standing next to it. This picture is about six to eight years old. Note how the trunk delivers what's promised: a very thick trunk!

Continue to the next post to compare the trunk above with the real thing.

Phil

[Phil]

Jubaeas are indeed fantastic. When juvenile, I agree they are a bit disappointing. It takes so much time to get past that stage. But, when they are huge, everyone admires them. At an IPS Biennial Meeting in approximaelyh 1996, the group visited LotusLand in Santa Barbara. Three former Presidents of the IPS (Al Bredison, Jim Cain, and myself) put our arms around the trunk, hands grasped together, and just made it around the circumference of their gigantic plant. If I still had a copy of that picture, I would post it here. It was quite impressive.

Jubaea chilensis at Mission Bay Park in San Diego

Another, same location

The upper trunk of a specimen in San Jose, California. Note the lack of attached old leaf bases. This is where you compare the pictures on the previous post. Jubaea are "knobby" a bit, but not the same as the hybrid.

For those of us who are either younger or didn't plant twenty years ago, we might be looking at a juvenile plant like this.

But, there's promise because these plants just keep chugging away and pick up speed once you see some fat trunk. Remember, they put on girth before they put on height. They get "fat first". They never get tall first and fatten up later. This is why people get frustrated with them. For many years there's little to look at. The saying "Patience is a virtue" definitely applies with Jubaeas.

Phil

[paulgila]

phil i am looking for some r.humilis.can you provide the sizes you have available & prices? a pm is ok if you prefer.thanks in advance.

"the dewd."

[NCpalmqueen]

Phil

Is your 20% sale over?

[joe_OC]

Phil

Is your 20% sale over?

Cindy,

I was on jungle music's website today and the 20% sale sign was still on the web page, so I am pretty sure that Phil's sale is still going strong...

Phil has a lot of very nice palms!

Joe

[Phil]

Cindy and Paul,

Re the Sale, sure, still on. We'd love to see everyone drop by. I hope our "Black Friday" proves to be successful. In the past I think people are more concerned with going to Nordstroms or Macys than coming to their local palm nursery. Paul, I think we have 5g and 15g and prices are at the link above. We'll take good care of you. Re our hours, we've expanded them. We're open for business Monday through Saturday, but it's best to call M-F to make sure we're not out on a delivery. We can usually accomodate anyone on those days. Sundays.... that's the day I spend doing other stuff.

Now for another palm. Let's talk about an unusual Chamaedorea. You'll note that I tend to discuss this genus because there is typically so little discussion of them on Palm Talk. Now that Jason is on sabbatical, no one's beating the Chamaedorea drum. They are a truly amazing group of plants. When I got started in palms 30 years ago (or longer), one could find a few of the more common Chamaedoreas. This included elegans, costaricana, glaucifolia, radicalis and perhaps a few others. And, I found these only because back then we did had a pioneer palm grower named Rudy Lasaga who grew more than the very common palm species. When Don Hodel put out his book, the interest in this genus exploded and availability increased. I suspect seed collectors finally realized what they were seeing in the wild. With more seed importations, many more species became available. This thrilled people who had established gardens because such gardens have lots of shade. BTW, if you don't have a copy of Don Hodel's book on Chamaedorea, I strongly suggest you get it. It's one of the best buys around. It's well writen, readable, and has a ton of pictures.

Chamaedorea neurochlamys is a thin trunked species from Mexico and Central America. It gets to about ten to twelve feet tall and is very attractive. It's crown width is average size, perhaps five to six feet. But, this is overhead. With it's thin trunk, it is one of those species that can grow in a small area where there's filtered light. It would be perfect for a thin planting area next to a walkway or snuck in between two larger palms. This is a quick growing species.

Chamaedorea neurochlamys in a 7g pot, about 8 feet tall. There are two plants in this pot, but remember the species is single trunked.

If you look at the crownshaft below the leaves, you see the characteristic of this species that really helps you identify it. At the base of the petiole where the crownshaft wraps around the trunk, there is a while discoloration. The green fades to white. This is a great clue in ID'ing this species.

This picture shows you the base of this plant. You will notice that it's two plants and that the trunks are quite thin and dark green. Like so many Chamaedoreas, note the prominent trunk rings.

Continued with another post so I don't explode the server.

Phil