Jump to content
NEW PALMTALK FEATURE - CHECK IT OUT ×

  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

Trachycarpus...

Kostas

By Kostas
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

 Share

Recommended Posts

Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
Posted

Hello!

I will soon be buying 2 big(2meter trunk or more...) Trachycarpus for my garden in Pyrgos to have something big to see till the small palms i will plant grow...So,as only few nursery people here know what they are saying and these certainly arent in Pyrgos,i would like to learn how to id the most common and relatively similar looking Trachycarpus sp. to know what i will be getting and also to choose...From the 3,i certainly prefer the T. takil but i doubt i will find it...I ask about it though as i saw a Trachycarpus planting of several years old at a local Mc Donalds that has 2 Trachys ,out of the 5-6 it has,that are generally bigger,especially their leaves,from the rest while they are all same height(more than 2 meters) and are all planted the same year some 5 years or more ago...The difference is not huge but its quite noticable and makes them more attractive than all the rest... :lol: Any chance they could be T. takil?

Ok,so,how can i id these Trachycarpus species?I guess wagnerianus should have really stiff leaves that cannot droop...Am i right?Never seen one here i think...

Now,about takil and fortunei,i understand its just size that differs or is there something else i could check that is a sure sign?How long would T. fortunei leaves be and how long T. takil?Any differnce in trunk perimetre?Unfortunately for me,these potted Trachycarpus will most probably have smaller than normal leaves due to pot culture right?How could i make a correct id in this case?Also,how to know they are not hybrids?

Thank you very much in advance! :)

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

HKO2008 Enthusiast

HKO2008

Posted
Posted

Dear Giannopoulos,

to begin with, the real Takil has not been in culture since Beccari's Time, untill a few years. Anyone claiming to have big ones is mislabeling their palm.

All Trachycarpusses previously sold as Takil are now labeled Trachycarpus Fortunei ssp. Nainital. They come from the Nainital region of India and are bigger and more robust looking than 'plain' fortunei. What you are talking about, Takil, is a Trachycarpus that has recently been rediscovered, only a few years ago. Generally, Trachycarpus is devided in two subfamilies, so to say. The real Takil belongs to the subfamily of Manipur, Martianus and Oreophilus and not to the subfamily of Fortunei.

Wagnerianus is now labeled as Trachycarpus Fortunei var. Wagnerianus. Wagnerianus has smaller, stiffer leaves. You will see the difference, no problem.

So much for all the names.

What you are talking about is Trachycarpus Fortunei ssp. Nainital. These palms become bigger and more robust than plain Fortunei. The problem is that Fortunei comes in so many forms, varieties and subspecies, that it is very, very hard to tell what you have. If you can find a nursery that can tell you their Trachycarpus comes from the Nainital region, then i would go for that, since they are bigger, more robust and even a bit more hardy.

Henri

Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you very much for your reply Henri! :)

Very usefull and detailed info,thank you very much!You seem quite knowledgable on the Trachycarpus genus! :)

So T. takil is ruled out as they will be 2 meters tall...I have not seen any labeled as T. takil,this was just a plain uneducated speculation from my part because of size difference...Its good to know what these trully are!

I too think wagnerianus should be easy to tell but,as i have never seen any from close,i dont know...

I really doubt i can find a nursery knowing the varieties here...Some even still label them as Chamaerops exelsa :blink: Few call them Trachycarpus fortunei...So i think chances are very slim that they will help me with the ssp....Thats why i asked to know myself to choose correctly two from a good looking ssp. and not any man made variety...I will try asking many nurseries about the Nainital subspecies and see :) I also like the T. fortunei whoose leaf tips droop...Are they any special ssp./var.?

Pyrgos is a very warm place with the lowest tempratures recorded every 20years or so being only -3C so special cold hardiness is not needed as far as Trachycarpus go!Never seen a Trachy with damaged foliage even at my place in Melissia/Athens where we get -6C every 4-8years... :(

Thank you very much in advance!

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

HKO2008 Enthusiast

HKO2008

Posted
Posted

Dear Giannopoulos,

could you maybe post a photo of the plants you want to buy? The way Trachycarpus looks is also very much determined by locations, fertilising (!!!), amount of water.

I have found that Trachycarpus Fortunei likes somewhat cooler temperatures and a lot of water in hotter conditions. Also fertilising helps in making a more robust plant.

Wagnerianus is much smaller in every aspect. If you want to fill up your garden, you could choose Fortunei. On the other hand, are bigger specimens of washingtonia and phoenix so expensive in Greece? Maybe buy a second hand palm of people who don't want them anymore???

Henri

Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Hi Henry!

Thank you very much for your reply! :)

I cannot post a photo of them unfortunately as i have not choosen any certain ones yet...Pyrgos is 300km from where i live and so i will most probably be buying them locally from Pyrgos on my first weekend trip there :( I will try to maybe post a photo from there but it would have to be answered overnight as Sunday would be the last day to buy them...

I understand that very well and thats true for most palms...Thats what makes the Trachy id much more difficult in my opinion...Its common for Pyrgos to find recently moved Trachycarpus and so most are not in the best condition to check their leaf size... :( I will buy though only if i find well cared and established in pot speciemen so lets say we have a pot grown Trachy but in good leaf condition...It may have smaller than normal leaves though due to underwatering or sheer pot culture...

Wagnerianus is not a palm i want...Its a palm i want to avoid,thats why i ask to id it :lol:

T. fortunei ssp. nainital is the common Trachy i would go for...Otherwise,if i was to grow these from seed too,i would certainly go for one of the Manipur subfamily,maybe T. orephilus as they are much more attractive :drool:

Bigger Washingtonia robusta do are availiable but i am growing my own from Sonora collected seeds to have pure ones and also to have a perfect peticoat,something that dug up ones cannot have...Large Phoenix(above 5m of trunk...) on the other hand are difficult to find and quiet expensive...If this was my main house,i would surely invest in 1 or 2 but in Pyrgos,i would only invest for one if the price was low...I will do try and locate any maybe ''unwanted'' one but most people in Pyrgos are proud of their palms,be them Phoenix or Washintonia...They never chop down palms here and i am very happy for that!

Edited by Kostas

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

HKO2008 Enthusiast

HKO2008

Posted
Posted (edited)

Dear Giannopoulos,

i understand. Sometimes in our country people want to get rid of a surplus plant and they offer them up for sale. You never know. On the internet we have online market places. Works very handy.

Washingtonia is very fast growing. You could even keep it as a perrenial in our country, since it regrows so fast. But it is very difficult to get pure Robusta. I think you are right in growing them from self collected seed.

I hope you do get some nice specimens.

About pot grown species, you are right. I bought a Trachy with a small and thin trunk. I put it in full ground and watered and fertilised it very well. It is growing a much thicker trunk and leaf crown. That really makes a difference!

Henri

Edited by HKO2008
Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Hi Henri!

Thank you very much for your reply! :)

Here we dont have such things,most unwanted plants and trees unfortunately end up chopped.... :(

Yes,i hope that in just 4 years i will already have trunking W. robusta that will get much bigger yearly! :) The seeds were bought from rarepalmseeds as Sonora collected,i wasnt that fortunate to go collect them in habitat myself,although i would surely love too!Washingtonia robusta was my first favourite fan palm and tall W. robusta always impress me and make me :drool: big deal! How much to actually own one in the future!!! :drool:

Yeap,they always get much better when in the ground...Trunked speciemen are just too big and need too much water for pot culture...

Could you tell me the different Trachycarpus subspecies and varieties and how to tell them apart?Also,which ones are the most common and easy to find?Here we mostly/only have common stuff availiable so i think that there should not be too many availiable varieties here and that i will be able to rule out many easily and focus on just a few...

Thank you very much in advance! :)

Edited by Kostas

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

iamjv Mentor

iamjv

Posted
Posted

Kostas,

Out of curiousity why do you not want a T. Wagnerianus ????

Jv

Jv in San Antonio Texas / Zone 8/extremes past 29 yrs: 117F (47.2C) / 8F (-13.3C)

Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Hi Jv! :)

I dont like it mostly because its not a species occuring naturally and also because of its fat trunk and small leaves characteristics...Generally i like thin trunked palms with big leaves or palms that have such leaf to trunk diameter relation that their trunk appears thin in relation to their leaf size... :)

Edited by Kostas

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

manuvericel Contributor

manuvericel

Posted
Posted (edited)
The real Takil belongs to the subfamily of Manipur, Martianus and Oreophilus and not to the subfamily of Fortunei.

Henri,

I didn't know that martianus was in the same familly as manipur, takil and Oreophilus

To me, martianus is in the olive shape seed subfamilly with lalisectus

Edited by manuvericel

Manu, France Z8A

PalmGuyWC Grand Master

PalmGuyWC

Posted
Posted

Kostas,

You might change your mind if you could see some well grown T. wagnerianus. No one has ever proven that it's a sport of T. fortunei as it's just speculation. It's my favorite one because the fronds are stiff and tough and they don't break up in the wind as some of the others do. They are also pretty as a young plant with adult characteristics. I planted some about 3 years ago that were about knee high. They have grown extreamly fast and are now well above my head. Two of them bloomed this past spring.

Dick

Richard Douglas

Janni Collaborator

Janni

Posted
Posted

Hi Kosta,

are you sure you want plant a trachycarpus? so far all trachycarpus i`ve seen in greece are doing very poor. except the one's in northern greece and mountainious regions near kozani. i think the weather is too hot and dry for those palms. or perhaps the sunshine is too intense. why don't you try some livistona. they grow very fast and you can get them for very little money...

Janni

kristof p Proficient

kristof p

Posted
Posted (edited)

Kosta,

T. martianus sounds like the right Trachycarpus for you. provided that you can give it lots of water and a place with acid soil where it has schade when young and can grow into the sun as it ages.

T. martianus and latisectus should take more heat than fortunei/wagnerianus but in your climate i think they need to be watered almost everyday for a healthy look and good growth (not in winter but definitely during summer).

Edited by kristof p
HKO2008 Enthusiast

HKO2008

Posted
Posted

Kosta,

the difference between Wagnerianus and Fortunei are very simple. Put them together and you will see the difference. Wagnerianus is smaller in everything.

Martianus is indeed a very good option for you. I don't know if they will be available at the nursery you are going to. Also, if a nursery cannot tell you the difference between the various palms, simply don't buy anything there. If you are not sure, just don't buy.

Henri

AJQ Proficient

AJQ

Posted
Posted

Surely there are many other Palms that you could try given your climate?

Brahea, Archies, Royals, Livistonas. etc. I think you have a great climate to try these and others too.

BTW Waggies are great!

Regards Andy.

Bangor, Norin Iron Zone 9a Min temp normally around -3 Degrees C, rarely -6C. Only 2 x -2.0C so far, verging on 9b this year. No snow or Frost this Winter. Several just subzero's this year, lets hope it stays this way. Normally around 5C to 10C + in winter, with lots of wind & rain. Summers usually better, 20C to 25 C occasionally 25C to 28C, also quite humid being a coastal town

Kris Grand Master

Kris

Posted
Posted
Hi Jv! :)

I dont like it mostly because its not a species occuring naturally and also because of its fat trunk and small leaves characteristics...Generally i like thin trunked palms with big leaves or palms that have such leaf to trunk diameter relation that their trunk appears thin in relation to their leaf size... :)

Hai,its surprising that our taste are exactly poles apart... :lol: .since i love heavy trunk with noraml leaf fronds,and hybrids are okay for me.. :) And reason for this is we have monsoons & cyclones regularly in our region.so heavier trunk is always favoured to a more weak looking palms/plants... :hmm:

Lots of love,

Kris :)

love conquers all..

43278.gif

.

  • 2 weeks later...
Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you very much all of you for your repys! :)

Hi Dick! :)

If its not prooven,then its ok with me i guess :lol: Just not exactly what i look in palms...I admit that they look ok in photos,when well grown but still they are a bit too compact and stiff for my taste to choose them for my garden :) And there are so many palms i want and will probably have to leave out due to limited space or hybridization with others :(

Congratulations for the T. wagnerianus blooms! Its always great to see a palm you grew from small to flower for the first time! :)

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi Janni! :)

I have to admit,most here dont look their best(as i saw them in Florence,Italy :drool: ) but i always thought this was because of the pot culture and/or not getting enough water for their needs...I do have seen here Trachycarpus with nice dark green,big fronds but this is the exception unfortunately....I just thought that in the spot i will plant them which is humid and gets lots of water from a flooding pump that works all the time in the basement when underground water rises to less that a meter below soil surface(which is,most of the winter and spring :lol: )and with regular,deep drip irrigation during our hot summers and only half day sun till 4-5meters height by when it should be fully established,i will manage to have 2 healthy,big leafed Trachys :)

Livistona are not easy to find here at all...But even if i had the chance to find big L. chinensis(which is the only outside grown Livistona availiable here, and even this one seldom...)i wouldnt go for them,at least in this garden of mine as i will try to grow L. rotundifolia and there is the potential of hybridizing in the somewhat far future... :unsure:

P.s.:You seem to know Greece pretty well to say that about Trachys! :)

Hi kristof p! :)

Unfortunately,i dont think there is any chance to find any other Trachycarpus other than T. fortunei(or possibly T. wagnerianus?)here...If there was,i would go with T. oreophilus or maybe one of the species you say...But as i want 2meter speciemen,i dont think i can get any of these,even from outside my country... :( If you know of any source for a big one of any of those,i would very much appreciate it if you let me know! :) Who knows,if the price for the shipping is not too much,i may end up buying one of my favourite Trachy species! :)

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi Henri! :)

Thanks for the info!I dont think i have seen a T. wagnerianus from close but as big potted Trachys for sale seldom have big leaves,i am worried i may not be able to tell the difference between the two...Is a wagnerianus trunk fatter than a fortunei's or does it only appear to be in photos due to leaf-trunk size relation?

Unfortunately,finding a nursery that knows its stuff is very tough here...Imagine that many nurseries buy their T. fortunei(and sell them as too ofcourse)as Chamaerops excelsa...Now ask them about variety and they will tell you:''Eehh?'' :( If their source doesnt give them a variety name for them and even gives them an old scientific name,how can they know after all?I will however,as always, try not to buy untill i find a nursery that can give me a variety name for what its selling and this name is Nainital or any other natural variety and not a man made one like Winsan and others...(from what i understand...am i right about them and if yes which others are man made and which are natural ones?)

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi Andy! :)

I know and will be planting many tropical species in my garden!Archontophoenix and Livistona are indeed one of these! :) Along with Syagrus,Burretiokentia,Kentiopsis,Dypsis,Howea,Licuala and others!!!Royals are great and may try one too! :)

Hi Kris! :)

Yeah,its funny!What you consider as weak looking palms are the ones i like most! :lol: My mother calls them little poor,weak palms too :lol: She feels sorry for them too :lol:

Lots of love from me too Kris!!! :)

Unfortunately i dont have any update for you yet...Due to rainy weather,a few jobs that were to be done the past week were postponed to the next week and so i wont be going to Pyrgos this weekend to search for palms as i had planned... :(

Thank you very much in advance! :)

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

Kris Grand Master

Kris

Posted
Posted
Hi Kris! :)

Yeah,its funny!What you consider as weak looking palms are the ones i like most! :lol: My mother calls them little poor,weak palms too :lol: She feels sorry for them too :lol:

Lots of love from me too Kris!!! :)

:lol:

And iam very happy to hear that your mom too is my type..and iam glad iam not alone harbouring this kind of opnion on slender palms ! :lol:

Love,

Kris :)

love conquers all..

43278.gif

.

fdrc65 Enthusiast

fdrc65

Posted
Posted

Trachycarpus fortunei is the most common palm in Northern Italy, this group in the picture grow un in my garden since 1985 with a north east exposition, they don't suffer from cold, freeze or snow (the lowest temperature we can have, every 30 years or so, is -15° C / 5° F)

this palms don't like very hot drought summer, so they don't look so good in southern Italy and I think also in sothern greece (as you can see in the second picture).

I think is better for you climate the Chamerops or Sabal or Washi or Brahea

the north face

2984100252_f65850038c_b.jpg

the south face

2983245291_72cab85285_b.jpg

ciao

Federico

Federico

Ravenna , Italy

USDA 8a\b

16146.gif

iamjv Mentor

iamjv

Posted
Posted

Good looking trachys Federico! What is the coldest temperature your palms have experienced at this location? Thanks Jv

Jv in San Antonio Texas / Zone 8/extremes past 29 yrs: 117F (47.2C) / 8F (-13.3C)

fdrc65 Enthusiast

fdrc65

Posted
Posted

Thanks Jv

The lowest temperature my Trachi experienced was -15° C / 5° F and lot of snow for 2 weeks, they were all juvenile (the lowest temperature was -19° F about 70 miles from here in the same period)

These temperature are rare here (3 time in a century).

I have also a Jubaea of abount 30 years who experienced one time -8 ° C / 17 F with a little protection.

In the last 3 winter we had higher low temperatures: 23- 25 F the lowest.

We are at 44° , 22 North so the highest temperatures in winter are not so much higher than the lowest.

bye

Federico

Ravenna , Italy

USDA 8a\b

16146.gif

Janni Collaborator

Janni

Posted
Posted

Hi Kosta,

of course i know greece very well. after all i am greek :winkie: if, as you said, the palms have only half of the day direct sunshine, then it could be much better, than full sunshine all day long. now you're rebuilding your garden in pyrgos, how's about putting a big water tank in your garden that saves water of the winter rainfalls to use it in the summer?!

Janni

fdrc65 Enthusiast

fdrc65

Posted
Posted

Hi Kosta,

If you can read the italian language, you can find a report about Trachycarpus species, that can help you to distinguish the difference,

here in this forum:

tropicamente forum

ciao

Federico

Ravenna , Italy

USDA 8a\b

16146.gif

jam99 Collaborator

jam99

Posted
Posted

Federico, I like your Trachycarpus forest. That's the effect I want to achieve myself. I think this species is very suitable for group planting. Well done. Cheers, Jan

N48° 19'12.42", E18°06'50.15"

continental climate somewhat moderated by the influence of the mediterranean sea, atlantic ocean and north sea water masses but still prone to arctic blasts from the east as well as hot and dry summers. pushing the limits is exciting.

  • 4 weeks later...
Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you very much all of you for your replys! :)

Kris,

:lol: Yeap,funny!!! :lol: You got company! :)

Thank you very much for the photos Federico(maybe Frederico?)! :)

Great Trachy you got there! :) I can understand they are not at their best with the tempratures of 40C prevailing the hottest days of our summers and with only the irrigation they get from lawn sprinclers...I can tell that for sure as having seen big Trachycarpus fortueni in Florence,i can tell you,i have never seen as large and beautyfull here.But my place is humid and i will be deep irrigating mine in summer so i hope to have some of the nicest Trachycarpus in southern Greece in a few years,as they acclimate in their permanent positions! :) I will be planting two Washingtonia robusta i am growing from Sonoran collected seed too in a few years! :)

Thank you very much for the Italian forum too!I cant read Italian but i hope to make out something through babelfish :)

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you very much for your reply Janni! :)

I knew you were Greek from the name but just didnt knew if you had lived in Greece.You could well be born in Germany from Greek parents :)

I hope that! :)

I 'll think of that,thanks for the suggestion! :)

Today,early in the morning,a truck with two Trachycarpus fortueni with about 1,5meter trunks came to my house...They were mine!!! :lol::) I went searching yesterday for Trachycarpus fortueni and other plants and choose the best i could find locally...They were quite good looking,except the leaves which were torn by the strong winds we had the past days,unusually strong...I choose two that i liked the most and that were very similar to each other.And here they were now,sitting next to the fence,side by side,taller than me in their pots :)

I did some research regarding the different Trachycarpus fortueni local varietions and figured out these surely are the Chusan ones...I bought them as Chamaerops excelsa,something very common here as most all sell them and know them only that way...But,on my search for that,i stumbled upon this article in which a possible hybridization with T. takil of the ancestors of nowdays Trachycarpus fortunei from European nurseries is mentioned...Does anybody know more on that?Does anyone know of a sure way to tell if the ancestry line of mine involves T. takil too or not?How can i know if my Trachycarpus fortueni are pure or not?What is meant by the ''twisted hastula'' mentioned in this article?I cannot understand what that is and how it looks like to check my Trachys for that...Also,how is a pure T. fortunei Chusan meant to look like?What is a normal diametre trunk for them?

Here are some photos of them i took yesterday while leaving the shop,having selected my Trachys:

Trachycarpus fortueni at a local nursery...The first one i selected is the middle in this photo :)

DSC02916a.jpg

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Close up of its crown...

DSC02918a.jpg

...and even closer to see its leaves and hastula...

DSC02921a.jpg

The second one i selested is the left-most one in this photos...

DSC02917a.jpg

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Close up to its crown...

DSC02919a.jpg

Close up of a mature leaf...

DSC02920a.jpg

Please tell me what you think of them and ,if possible,if they are pure or results of past hybridization :) One has old flower stalk bases from about the first 30-60cm of trunk while the other has produced no flower stalf so far....I assume the one that has flowered is a male and the other a female plant?Or is this odd?

Thank you very much in advance! :)

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
Posted

Everyone says this is a T. fortunei variant, I wish I knew which one.

H-oh - - - - -

SILVER!

post-208-1230777788_thumb.jpg

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
Posted

Same Palm at night . . . . .

Wo-ho! Wo-ho-ho, ho-ho-ho-ho ho . . . . .

post-208-1230777851_thumb.jpg

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

ghar41 Veteran

ghar41

Posted
Posted
Same Palm at night . . . . .

Wo-ho! Wo-ho-ho, ho-ho-ho-ho ho . . . . .

post-208-1230777851_thumb.jpg

It really is a beauty Dave. :rolleyes: Maybe Nigel will post in on this thread...he was very helpful in helping straighten out my Trachy questions.

Glenn

Modesto, California

 

Sunset Zone 14   USDA 9b

 

Low Temp. 19F/-7C 12-20-1990         

 

High Temp. 111F/43C 07-23-2006

 

Annual Average Precipitation 13.12 inches/yr.

 

             

kristof p Proficient

kristof p

Posted
Posted
Everyone says this is a T. fortunei variant, I wish I knew which one.

H-oh - - - - -

SILVER!

post-208-1230777788_thumb.jpg

Dave, your Trachycarpus is called T. fortunei var winsan. i do not think this is a valid name but this is how most people call the round leaved fortuneis. (i think in france they call them T. fortunei var rotondifolia?)....

kristof p Proficient

kristof p

Posted
Posted
Thank you very much for your reply Janni! :)

I knew you were Greek from the name but just didnt knew if you had lived in Greece.You could well be born in Germany from Greek parents :)

I hope that! :)

I 'll think of that,thanks for the suggestion! :)

Today,early in the morning,a truck with two Trachycarpus fortueni with about 1,5meter trunks came to my house...They were mine!!! :lol::) I went searching yesterday for Trachycarpus fortueni and other plants and choose the best i could find locally...They were quite good looking,except the leaves which were torn by the strong winds we had the past days,unusually strong...I choose two that i liked the most and that were very similar to each other.And here they were now,sitting next to the fence,side by side,taller than me in their pots :)

I did some research regarding the different Trachycarpus fortueni local varietions and figured out these surely are the Chusan ones...I bought them as Chamaerops excelsa,something very common here as most all sell them and know them only that way...But,on my search for that,i stumbled upon this article in which a possible hybridization with T. takil of the ancestors of nowdays Trachycarpus fortunei from European nurseries is mentioned...Does anybody know more on that?Does anyone know of a sure way to tell if the ancestry line of mine involves T. takil too or not?How can i know if my Trachycarpus fortueni are pure or not?What is meant by the ''twisted hastula'' mentioned in this article?I cannot understand what that is and how it looks like to check my Trachys for that...Also,how is a pure T. fortunei Chusan meant to look like?What is a normal diametre trunk for them?

Here are some photos of them i took yesterday while leaving the shop,having selected my Trachys:

Trachycarpus fortueni at a local nursery...The first one i selected is the middle in this photo :)

DSC02916a.jpg

you dont have to wory about your palms beeing a hybrid of T. fortunei with T. takil. there are only 3 mature takils in europe (or maybe even outside their natural habitat?) and these are al growing in rome. (those trees are more than 100y old). the twisted hastula is not a takil trait. at some point there was someone in the UK who said he had a large takil in his garden and the twisted hastula and some other traits come from this palm but it's just a fortunei. most seedgrown fortunei get that twisted hastula trait at a certain age.

the real T. takil is only on the market since early 2008 (seeds and seedlings only!). it looks much more like T. manipur, oreophilus than T. fortunei and is much slower growing...IMO T. takil is also much more atractive than fortunei.

Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you very much all of you for your replys! :)

Dave,you got a great Trachycarpus there too! Thanks for showing! :)

Thank you very much for all this good info!Its great to hear that!But...are you sure?Why is that written in the article i linked to which is by two people really into the Trachy genus?

Thank you very much for clearing the misconception regarding the twisted hastula!I am very happy to hear that!!! :)

Also,if things are that hopefull as you say,what if my trachys are from Italy?Do you maybe know if they away from nurseries?Is there any way of ruling out completely hybridization with T. takil?

Thank you very much in advance! :)

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

Kostas Grand Master

Kostas

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you very much for your reply Kristof! :)

I didnt know how old this article was...I am glad more info on the subject has become availiable now! :) So from all the T. takil seeds/plants availiable back then,only 3 remain as old mature plants now?Are they in private collections/public gardens,away from nurseries?

Unfortunately i cant view the thread as i am not a member of the European Palm Society :(

Thank you very much in advance! :)

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

kristof p Proficient

kristof p

Posted
Posted

the takil in the article is what we now know as T. fortunei var nani tal. seeds of this palm has been sold for years as T. takil so many people think they have a takil in there garden but they are growing this fortunei variant...the T. takil was rediscoverd in 2005, they did not found many seeds then but there are a couple of seedlings from that time. at the end of 2007 there was another expedition and they came back with more seeds...there is confusion about T. manipur, T. oreophilus and T. takil. some think they are one and the same species....time wil tell but they do look all very much the same.

the only adult takils in europe are growing in rome. i wish Sergio or M@X read this topic, they can tell you everything about those 'rome' takils....

p.s: i think you would be very welcome at the EPS forum and it's free.....

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...