From Accuweather's Henry Margusity

[SubTropicRay]

"I AM NOT TRYING TO HYPE THINGS BUT THE COLD AIR MASS COMING DOWN THE FIRST WEEK OF DECEMBER WILL BE THE COLDEST FOR MANY EVEN INTO THE DEEP SOUTH SINCE THE LATE 80'S. I AM TRYING TO GET THAT POINT ACROSS SO PEOPLE CAN PREPARE FOR JUST HOW COLD IT WILL BE. "

[gsn]

Not to sound like a broken record,but is any WEATHERMAN reliable???

There are so many things that could change between NOW and the first week of December,jet stream moves farther north,front stalls, front weakens ect,ect.

Mind you I am not saying this won't come to pass, but I would take 9 or 10 day predicted forecast with a grain of salt,when they can't tell you for sure whether it actually is going to rain tomorrow or not, with a great deal of accuracy.

just sayin

[falcon1988]

Hi Ray,

I just went there to see what they were saying I honestly can say accuweather isn't so accurate at all there temps are so unreal it amazing

they really can't forcast when it will rain/snow or when a hurricane will hit. they hardly update the temp trend at all i hardly go there

i usually get my info from NOAA or weather.com they are more reliable in ways. I fully agree with you gsn then again in ways to have a heads up on a cold event

that may head this way or not after all mother nature can change her tune at any time.

Regards

[osideterry]

Ray - Did you watch the guy's video? The weather models make sense, but he seems to be jumping to a worst case scenario. It probably will be rough in the northeast regardless.

Weather.com has your low temps in the 50s during that time frame.

[Wai`anae Steve]

Hey guys dont worry. Globle warming.

Nov was the hottest in history says NASA.

OOPS, they used the October data two months in a row.

Turns out Nov was the 47th hottest out of 75.

OOPS, better get ready for a COLD winter OR move all your stuff to the Big Island as O`ahu is to crowded and expensive

Wai`anae Steve

[_Keith]

I think they try to be somewhat accurate, but in the end all of these guys have to make the ratings numbers. Some do it by entertainment, but some do it by keeping you on the edge of your chair like a good thriller. The can be off, but no so far as to unbelievable. So, we have a cooler than normal winter as we are having, but not record cold type just yet, they come out with "wow, the jetstream moved and we really dodged a bullet this time."

Kind of like the year after Katrina and Rita, all the hurricane modelers were predicted everything but totally doom, record storms. Instead it was rather quiet.

But you know he could be right. Even a broken clock right 2 times a day, and can boast a long record of success.

[SubTropicRay]

Look at the latest NWS CPC longe range model. I usually like purple.

CPC long term forecast

[surgeon83]

If it looks like we're heading for a big one, I have decided I will attempt to dig most of my palms up rather than trying to protect. It would be quicker, cheaper, and more reliable and beats the heck out of buying new in the spring, at the inflated springtime prices. Then I'd just have to decide when I'm comfortable planting them back out again :|

And of course, Larry, we would be thrilled to have you and your father join us. We have no concrete plans yet, I'm just trying to get caught up then see how everyone else's schedule is going.

-Brian

Edited November 23, 2008 by surgeon83

[gsn]

What pray tell are you going to do with them after they are dug-up???

[SubTropicRay]

Watch meteorologist Frank Strait's blog video on Accuweather. It can be found under the title "Two Storms This Week." I had to laugh at the end of his video. Finally, someone calling just like it is (or at least like we hope it is).

Frank Straits blog video

[Neofolis]

Friday 10pm, Accuweather were forecasting an overnight low for here of -4°C/25°F, the temperature only actually dropped to 5.9°C/42.6°F and that was only forecasting a few hours away. Obviously, the forecasts aren't usually that far out, but when I look at the long range forecasts they change so often, sometimes even hourly and the changes can be quite dramatic.

It doesn't stop me looking though, it is always best to be prepared.

[koolthing78]

Watch meteorologist Frank Strait's blog video on Accuweather. It can be found under the title "Two Storms This Week." I had to laugh at the end of his video. Finally, someone calling just like it is (or at least like we hope it is).

I'm so glad you posted that--between this thread and the one Keith started, I was actually starting to consider doing my 4th year rotations in Miami and then plan on just staying there (and I really do much prefer everything about St. Pete, except for Miami's palms and beautiful, swimmable water in the middle of January). It's funny--that sort of thought has been an ongoing struggle since I first moved to Pinellas in October 2002 (soon to be followed by one of the coldest Januarys on record)--I always felt like I was sitting right on some sort line, and I would agonize about "if I could JUST be a LITTLE further south..." But then by reading other posts, I guess that's true of all of us--we all feel like we just happen to be unlucky enough to have chosen to live/garden at the exact spot we did, and that everything would be better if it could be just a tad warmer, saving us from those "once in a century (hopefully)" freezes. But the plants *I* worry about in those freezes would not be the same as the plants Bubba or Keith does; it's just a funny thing about human nature I guess--there's always going to be something more desirable (and it's always going to be just close enough to drive us bonkers). That's why I like Keith's happy-go-lucky attitude about enjoying the palms for what they are while they survive. Unfortunately, I am not happy-go-lucky, I am a chronic worry-wort.

[gsn]

Watch meteorologist Frank Strait's blog video on Accuweather. It can be found under the title "Two Storms This Week." I had to laugh at the end of his video. Finally, someone calling just like it is (or at least like we hope it is).

But the plants *I* worry about in those freezes would not be the same as the plants Bubba or Keith does; it's just a funny thing about human nature I guess--there's always going to be something more desirable (and it's always going to be just close enough to drive us bonkers). That's why I like Keith's happy-go-lucky attitude about enjoying the palms for what they are while they survive. Unfortunately, I am not happy-go-lucky, I am a chronic worry-wort.

Unfortunately I RESEMBLE that remark!

[epicure3]

I think your big clue will be to check the long range forecast of the NWS to see if they mention any possibility of cold coming down. Usually, they won't declare a doomsday scenario but any inkling from the NWS would give you an idea whether Accuweather is blowing smoke ....or ice, as the case may be.

[Derekjp]

"I AM NOT TRYING TO HYPE THINGS BUT THE COLD AIR MASS COMING DOWN THE FIRST WEEK OF DECEMBER WILL BE THE COLDEST FOR MANY EVEN INTO THE DEEP SOUTH SINCE THE LATE 80'S. I AM TRYING TO GET THAT POINT ACROSS SO PEOPLE CAN PREPARE FOR JUST HOW COLD IT WILL BE. "

I sure as hell hope not or I might be headed for South Florida. I've noticed that they've been wrong recently, but I really don't think anyone can give a detailed forcast more than at around 4-5 days in advance and thats still too close to call. Long term trends yeah maybe, but not tell us it's going to be like say 27deg low 2 weeks from now.

Edited November 24, 2008 by Derekjp

[surgeon83]

What pray tell are you going to do with them after they are dug-up???

Why, stick 'em back in their pots, or bigger ones, of course! Everything's been planted since June, so its all small and I saved all of the pots. The sand is so easy to dig in its actually almost harder to keep the palms IN the ground than to dig them UP! hehe

From there they would go into my garage temporarily, since that actually stays warmer than the rest of my house through the night, and I'm considering moving my bed out there too since my heater doesn't work right now.

[Derekjp]

Watch meteorologist Frank Strait's blog video on Accuweather. It can be found under the title "Two Storms This Week." I had to laugh at the end of his video. Finally, someone calling just like it is (or at least like we hope it is).

I'm so glad you posted that--between this thread and the one Keith started, I was actually starting to consider doing my 4th year rotations in Miami and then plan on just staying there (and I really do much prefer everything about St. Pete, except for Miami's palms and beautiful, swimmable water in the middle of January). It's funny--that sort of thought has been an ongoing struggle since I first moved to Pinellas in October 2002 (soon to be followed by one of the coldest Januarys on record)--I always felt like I was sitting right on some sort line, and I would agonize about "if I could JUST be a LITTLE further south..." But then by reading other posts, I guess that's true of all of us--we all feel like we just happen to be unlucky enough to have chosen to live/garden at the exact spot we did, and that everything would be better if it could be just a tad warmer, saving us from those "once in a century (hopefully)" freezes. But the plants *I* worry about in those freezes would not be the same as the plants Bubba or Keith does; it's just a funny thing about human nature I guess--there's always going to be something more desirable (and it's always going to be just close enough to drive us bonkers). That's why I like Keith's happy-go-lucky attitude about enjoying the palms for what they are while they survive. Unfortunately, I am not happy-go-lucky, I am a chronic worry-wort.

I've only been here since earlier this year and I've already had these thoughts. I was looking at Fort Lauderdale, but decided on St. Pete because I like the slower pace of life and friendlier people here on the west coast. South Florida is crazy but it's a pretty place scenery wise. Every time I get to thinking about moving down there I remind myself about the last time I was there and how I saw a woman in a Mercedes robbed and ran over at a gas station in Sunrise. It helps.

[SubTropicRay]

Eric,

I'm a worrier too in case you haven't noticed. I have too much money invetsed in my landscape to be overly carefree. Not only that, I unfortunately get attached to some plants as if they were pets.

Where in St. Pete are you? I work on that side of the Bay.

Ray

[AggiePalms]

Can you trust any weatherman? I don't know, but... The source of all the weathercasters' information is the National Weather Service, part of NOAA. These experts...not just weathermen... collect the data from the satellites, etc., then interpret it. I find the official forecasts (short and long term) to be much more reliable and with much less hype than the weathermen. Weathermen don't collect any data, and usually just use the government forecasts. Remember, with the weathermen, if they don't make the weather exciting, then you don't watch and the ratings (their salaries) go down. Not so with the NWS.

[koolthing78]

That's funny, Derek--that's the same kind of thing I think of when I try to convince myself that I'm happier here (which I am 99% of the time). That, and the horrible traffic I get stuck in every time I go to Miami. And I've also looked at Fort Lauderdale, not to mention West Palm. But I just get the feeling that if I don't have tons of money to spend on a house, I'll end up living in some crime infested seedy neighborhood. Also, for those few times a year when I find myself missing the feel and the scenery of up north, I think I'd miss my relative proximity to the scenic forests and rolling hills in central Florida. So 99% of the time, I'm able to convince myself that Pinellas is about as good as I'm gonna get, in terms of the "whole package."

Ray--I'm actually not technically in St. Pete anymore. Now that you mention it, I think I do remember you mentioning the area you worked in, and it's very close to where I used to live. Up until June I lived at Brandywine, which is just south of the Tyrone mall. I spent the summer up north, and now live closer to school in Seminole. It's a nice place to live, though I think just a hair colder on the nights when it counts (which seems odd as it's closer to the water; it probably has to do with those NNE winds we get that don't have to go over water like downtown St Pete).

And to be honest, I don't do any gardening of my own, I just really love looking at what other people do. So I have no financial ties to any plants, just emotional ones.

[SubTropicRay]

This is great. Someone responded to Henry Margusity's blog on the coming "frigid" eastern seabord cold front.

"I want your job...wrong 90% of the time and still get paid! Do you really enjoy wasting everyone's time? It might this...it might that, blah, blah. Big snowstorm eventually...yeah, within the next 50 years! There, I'm as good as you. Bet anything you won't post this. Take care, I'm sure you are a good guy anyway."

[epicure3]

This is great. Someone responded to Henry Margusity's blog on the coming "frigid" eastern seabord cold front.

"I want your job...wrong 90% of the time and still get paid! Do you really enjoy wasting everyone's time? It might this...it might that, blah, blah. Big snowstorm eventually...yeah, within the next 50 years! There, I'm as good as you. Bet anything you won't post this. Take care, I'm sure you are a good guy anyway."

The good thing, Ray, is that you're keeping an eye on the situation. I did the same thing before the brutal freeze we had in '07. A week before, there was talk about the BIG one. I didn't freak out, but got prepared well in advance of the event. Looks to me, right or wrong, that you guys are having a colder than normal Fall. Do you have precautions in place??

[_Keith]

This is great. Someone responded to Henry Margusity's blog on the coming "frigid" eastern seabord cold front.

"I want your job...wrong 90% of the time and still get paid! Do you really enjoy wasting everyone's time? It might this...it might that, blah, blah. Big snowstorm eventually...yeah, within the next 50 years! There, I'm as good as you. Bet anything you won't post this. Take care, I'm sure you are a good guy anyway."

The good thing, Ray, is that you're keeping an eye on the situation. I did the same thing before the brutal freeze we had in '07. A week before, there was talk about the BIG one. I didn't freak out, but got prepared well in advance of the event. Looks to me, right or wrong, that you guys are having a colder than normal Fall. Do you have precautions in place??

Don't know about Ray, but I am fully prepared. Wine cooler is fully stocked. Got a 3 month refill on the Prozac. And 1-way tickets to the Virgin Islands.

[SubTropicRay]

I'm as ready as can be. Yes, this fall has not been fun. While the temps aren't terrible, it's cool enough to make me wonder what's coming down the line. This reminds me of late fall when I was a kid. Those winters make the last 20 years look like a walk in the park.

[spockvr6]

Unfortunately, I am not happy-go-lucky, I am a chronic worry-wort.

Unfortunately I RESEMBLE that remark!

I used to be like this as well.....but no good comes of it!

Do we think that by fretting we can avoid?

Just enjoy your plants!

[spockvr6]

I'm as ready as can be. Yes, this fall has not been fun. While the temps aren't terrible, it's cool enough to make me wonder what's coming down the line. This reminds me of late fall when I was a kid. Those winters make the last 20 years look like a walk in the park.

Of the last 10 nights, Ive dropped into the 40's or colder (one night was 39.2F) on 8 of them! Of those 8, 4 of them were LOW 40's and the one upper 30's! Pretty much unheard of for any month, never mind November.

However, since nature tends to revert to the mean over the long haul, this could mean that next month (or the month after that or afetr that) will be above average.

[SubTropicRay]

I like your optimism Larry.

Check out this local NWS long term forecast that echoes what you're saying. My meds are working VERY well this morning.

NWS West Central and SW Florida winter forecast

[phatmiata]

Figures i would finally be able to afford a house with some LAND, and now that i have planted a bunch of tropicals the weather gets al flaky and cold on me. ugh. I still have alot in pots too, acck!! I can move them inside the garage but what should i do about getting them sunlight? I sure as heck cannot move them in and outside everyday. Some of favs are in 15 gallons pots.

[spockvr6]

Figures i would finally be able to afford a house with some LAND, and now that i have planted a bunch of tropicals the weather gets al flaky and cold on me. ugh. I still have alot in pots too, acck!! I can move them inside the garage but what should i do about getting them sunlight? I sure as heck cannot move them in and outside everyday. Some of favs are in 15 gallons pots.

Contractor-

Welcome to the "central Florida dilemma".....warm enough 99% of the time, but that 1% can do us in.

[SubTropicRay]

If this morning was a passing blow of what Henry Margusity was talking about, I would hate to have seen the mother load.

[spockvr6]

If this morning was a passing blow of what Henry Margusity was talking about, I would hate to have seen the mother load.

Since it wasnt cold of 1980's proportions, I guess Mr. Maquisty needs to take a big glass of happy juice

[SubTropicRay]

He's drinking more of it today. The only problem is Mr. Reasonable Thinking, Frank Strait, is on board with him for the next potential freeze to end all freezes.

[PalmGuyWC]

I wish you guys in Florida would calm down.....although I do think your are going to have a nasty winter. Looks that way so far. It's been warmer than normal in N. Calif, but the last 4 days have been foggy and the highs around 62, nights around 44. The fog has moved out, so tonight will be clear and possibly frost, and the first one of the year. Let's face it.......winter is here.

I have friends who were visiting Fairchild Gardens yesterday. They said it was about 68 and they were freezing. I'll trade anytime.

Dick

[mnorell]

Look at your climo for record lows next week and you'll see the probability of the worst-case scenario. Here in Natchez there hasn't been a bad freeze (teens) before 12 December. For St. Pete, it's 13 December, where the all-time lows go from the 30s suddenly to 22F (13th). For Orlando it's the 12th (24F). The expectedly chilly Gainesville is similar to us in lows despite its relatively low latitude, and their first horrible record low (12F) occurs right about the same time, on the 13th. Prior to that it's 20s and above. So if this "great freeze" kicks in next week I think it's pushing it to say it will be all-time devastating. Just a little too early on the curve to be the freeze that ends all freezes. Not completely out of the question to be damaging, but I think the hype-quotient is quite large, and as any good meteorologist will tell you, accuracy is limited to about two days out. Beyond that it's all vaguery and sometimes just plain pipe-dreams on the part of these computer models. And since the very conservative NOAA/NWS is not projecting anything like this for next week at present, I'd say just wait and see. And I agree 100% with Larry that seasons tend to even out and a long stretch of cool weather is balanced by warmer-than-average weather. That's at least something positive to stick to all of this misery.

Nevertheless may I add that I am sick and tired of this endless "sneak preview" of January weather in November and December. Today after the front went through we were low 40s all day and as dismal, grey and windy as one could imagine. But overall we've been lucky here with two nights at 31F, while it has already hit low and mid 20s in Florida. Meanwhile I don't think Dallas has had a freeze yet, and California is enjoying summer for the foreseeable future. But this, like all things, will pass...

[koolthing78]

I wish you guys in Florida would calm down.....although I do think your are going to have a nasty winter. Looks that way so far. It's been warmer than normal in N. Calif, but the last 4 days have been foggy and the highs around 62, nights around 44. The fog has moved out, so tonight will be clear and possibly frost, and the first one of the year. Let's face it.......winter is here.

I have friends who were visiting Fairchild Gardens yesterday. They said it was about 68 and they were freezing. I'll trade anytime.

Dick

True enough, but it's all relative. Looking at the western regional climate center data for Walnut Creek, record lows are solidly in the 20's (and some upper teens) from mid-November through early March, and I'm sure you plant accordingly (or not, and accept the inevitability of having to replace things). What I think is of most concern to us central Floridians is the departure from what's considered "typical" winter lows, and it seems that the southeast is much more succeptible to these extremes (putting us here in the cross-hares of the tender tropicals' "make it or break it" mid-to-upper twenties). My first winter in Pinellas, St. Pete recorded a record low (for the date) of 28 or 29, and I remember seeing all the schefflera leaves scattered all over people's lawns, fried dypsis, and the coconuts at the Island Way (great restaurant, if you're ever in Clearwater) reduced to about one or two pathetic fronds each. I can't imagine what it would be like if (when) we experience another REAL freeze like the 80's, since I've never been through anything like that before. I guess I'm lucky that washingtonias are among my favorite palms (the drive out to Pass-a-grille is just gorgeous), though I can't help but to hope that it never gets to the point where that's all I'm left with. But if I still lived in Ohio, it'd be a dream come true if we could even grow windmill palms. It's all relative.

[SunnyFl]

My first winter in Pinellas, St. Pete recorded a record low (for the date) of 28 or 29, and I remember seeing all the schefflera leaves scattered all over people's lawns, fried dypsis, and the coconuts at the Island Way (great restaurant, if you're ever in Clearwater) reduced to about one or two pathetic fronds each. I can't imagine what it would be like if (when) we experience another REAL freeze like the 80's, since I've never been through anything like that before.

When did you move here - what year was the low around 28? I recall we had one nasty freeze in - I can't recall but I think it was Jan. of 2001? Only time we'd been below freezing since the Dec. '89 fiasco. I didn't lose anything - but our spindle palm lost 3 of its 5 fronds. It recovered quickly and by summer, was fine. I had a great microclimate until recently when we had to remove an immense oak that was dying. It was in the N/W corner of the lot and protected the whole backyard. Our winter temps this year are colder (compared to St. Pete/Clw Airport) than they were when we had the tree, so I'm getting very worried.

You mention the shefflera. We had our current home in Dec. of '89 and were also in the process of selling the former one in Pinellas Park. Clearwater saw temps around 19, and PP was no better. We had a big shefflera at the former place, and a big one here. The one here was hardly damaged; the one in PP was almost killed. Our neighbor in PP had a huge hibiscus hedge - the '89 freeze killed it, along with most tropicals. Stuff at my current place survived - philodendrons, gingers, pothos, a neglected banana.

Yeah, I would bitterly hate to see a return of the '80's, when St. Pete looked more like SC than FL. When we returned to St. Pete in 1980 (moved back up here from Broward), I missed so much the beautiful palms and tropicals of So. Florida. Instead, back then the favored plants here were ligustrum (zzzz), podocarpus and junipers - if I wanted to live around stuff like that, I'd move to SC

Anybody know how much cold a Pandanus utilis can take?

[spockvr6]

Anybody know how much cold a Pandanus utilis can take?

All I can tell you is that, in a semi-protected location, mine saw a windy 29.5F last January and was unharmed. There is another pretty big one in town that is completely exposed (in the middle of a wide open yard) and it too was fine with maybe a little bit of leaf tip burn.

Also, P. baptistii which I have in the open was marginally damaged this same night, but nothing serious.

[koolthing78]

When did you move here - what year was the low around 28? I recall we had one nasty freeze in - I can't recall but I think it was Jan. of 2001? Only time we'd been below freezing since the Dec. '89 fiasco. I didn't lose anything - but our spindle palm lost 3 of its 5 fronds. It recovered quickly and by summer, was fine. I had a great microclimate until recently when we had to remove an immense oak that was dying. It was in the N/W corner of the lot and protected the whole backyard. Our winter temps this year are colder (compared to St. Pete/Clw Airport) than they were when we had the tree, so I'm getting very worried.

I moved here in October of 2002. We went from at or above normal temps that month to below normal in November and December (plus monster rain storms every week or two--I think one around Christmas eve and one on New Years gave us 5-7 inches with significant street flooding), to much below normal in January (which, if I remember right, was a lot like the weather now--highs often struggling to break into the low sixties, 70's almost unheard of), culminating in the record low at the end of the month. After that it was decent (except for an annoying cloudy cool stretch in march--the result of some front that just died out on top of us (which I only remember because we had college guests come down for "spring break" who were none too pleased about that)).

[mnorell]

Not that this is a consolation for palms, but at least for your woody ornamentals, this long stretch of chilly weather in central Florida is certainly pushing the plants toward dormancy and hardening them off. This will hopefully limit damage to your canopy and other woodies if a hard freeze comes along. And as long as you stay in the low/mid 20s, many of your larger, well-established palms should recover, as long as they're generally hardy for the area. Central Florida has a great climate and a much wider available range of palms than we have here in the Gulf States, so it's all relative. There is much beauty in a garden full of Bismarckia, Livistona, Arenga, Sabal, Wallichia, Chamaedorea, etc. If you're not in SE coastal FL or the Keys, you have to expect that periodically you're going to lose some of your out-of-zone plants. Balance your planting accordingly and remember that those pesky Adonidias are easily and cheaply replaced!

And on the subject of Pandanus utilis, I think they are much hardier than people have suspected in the past, at least once they have achieved some size. I've seen numerous reports of them surviving freezes...and come to think of it, those leaves are rather like metal, or like Sabal leaves cut into strips, so they must be tough.

[koolthing78]

Not that this is a consolation for palms, but at least for your woody ornamentals, this long stretch of chilly weather in central Florida is certainly pushing the plants toward dormancy and hardening them off. This will hopefully limit damage to your canopy and other woodies if a hard freeze comes along. And as long as you stay in the low/mid 20s, many of your larger, well-established palms should recover, as long as they're generally hardy for the area. Central Florida has a great climate and a much wider available range of palms than we have here in the Gulf States, so it's all relative. There is much beauty in a garden full of Bismarckia, Livistona, Arenga, Sabal, Wallichia, Chamaedorea, etc. If you're not in SE coastal FL or the Keys, you have to expect that periodically you're going to lose some of your out-of-zone plants. Balance your planting accordingly and remember that those pesky Adonidias are easily and cheaply replaced!

It's funny--whenever I see adonidias (which is all over the place) my brain just kind of cancels them out. The town houses across the street must have about 20 or 30, but I just admire the well-fertilized queens on my way by. Maybe if they looked as "at home" as they do further south (Naples has some nice tall ones that were almost unrecognizable to me because of their height) I would consider them a part of the landscape, but I've just come to view them as large annuals that happen to get lucky. In keeping with my healthy pessimism, I really try not to get too attached to things that I know are really pushing the limits, though I can't help admiring the coconuts, which have really just started looking nice since the last freeze several years ago (and to me, nice = healthy fronds below a 90 degree angle). So I kind of have my list of "core" plants that I would be satisfied with--washingtonias, queens, citrus, ficus, norfolk island pines (though even those last two I'm not sure how they'd hold up to the "big one"). And of course phoenix and sabals, but those are a given. Incidentally, I know it's not palm-related, but does anyone know how low a ficus can take (benjamina, elastica or benghalensis)? When I first moved here I had read that they don't tolerate freezing temperatures, but in Jan. '03 while the schefflera were defoliated, I didn't see even one benjamina with a hint of burn.

Edit: And I definitely agree about it all being relative--wherever you are, there's always going to be somewhere better that's just close enough to drive you crazy. The trick is beating your mind at its own game (which, admittedly, I'm not very good at--my mind kind of has its way with me on a regular basis).

Edited December 5, 2008 by koolthing78