Cold Hardiest Crownshaft Palm

[buffy]

I did a little searching and didn't see this topic. I'm creating a pretty impressive microclimate next to a fully heated pool with an really oversized heater. On really cold nights, I'm gonna crank the heater up to nuclear. It will get quite a bit of shade from 50 foot Grey Henon bamboo. It will be basically Pool, then Palm, then Bamboo within 10 feet.

[SouthSeaNate]

I did a little searching and didn't see this topic. I'm creating a pretty impressive microclimate next to a fully heated pool with an really oversized heater. On really cold nights, I'm gonna crank the heater up to nuclear. It will get quite a bit of shade from 50 foot Grey Henon bamboo. It will be basically Pool, then Palm, then Bamboo within 10 feet.

I'd say hardiest crownshaft palm is probably Rhopalostylis sapida, but they can only take down to around -4C (25F), also I think they would probably fry in your hot summer temperatures... Archontophoenix cunninghamiana is a little less hardy, but if given serious protection could make it, they would also grow very fast for you providing you keep them almost waterlogged during summer...

[PalmGuyWC]

I thought Dypsis decipiens was the most cold hardy crown shafted palm. They are supposed to take it into the low 20s, or some of them do. They are also very slow and damn difficult to grow. I found out this past summer they don't like extreme heat, and seem to grow better when it's cool. Mine seem to grow at the same rate, summer or winter.

Dick

[Roaringwater]

I'm not sure that any crownshaft palm could withstand a zone 8a winter without fairly serious protection. Pseudophoenix sargentii might be the hardiest one that does well with extreme summer heat.

[Tala]

here it used to Pseudophoenix sargentii (the Fl. native var.). These exhibit minor (under 33%) leaf damage at 25f to 23f lows. But now Dypsis decipiens wears the crown. These undamaged at same lows. Good luck finding the crownshaft, mebbe your offspring will be around to enjoy...

[Jeff in St Pete]

Bamboo sheltering one side and a heated pool on the other side sounds like a great microclimate! I would go with Pseudophoenix sargentii (very slow) or Archontophoenix cunninghamiana (very fast) or a combination of both.

[zootropical]

Any news of this project?

[palmsOrl]

Chamaedorea microspadix and Chamaedorea radicans certainly beat Archontophoenix cunninghamiana and Dypsis decipiens in terms of cold hardiness. I saw large, established clumps at a botanical garden in Atlanta. These two species (the Chamaedoreas) are known to be fully hardy to below 20F. Technically, they do have a crown shaft.

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Hands down Dypsis Decipiens.

I have never had damage on my dippy and the coldest it has experienced is 23f.

In my garden, Rhopalostylis sapida is only slightly more hardy than Archontophoenix cunninghamiana and both see damage below 30f.

Chamadora radicalis is quite hardy, but as a crown shafted palm not very showy. Mine has been nipped below 25f but not much.

Dick,

I think it all depends on the health and vigor of the palm. My dippy loves the heat here in Modesto and we are a bit warmer than WC.

Jeff

Edited January 30, 2013 by Jeff in Modesto

[Jim in Los Altos]

Hands down Dypsis Decipiens.

I have never had damage on my dippy and the coldest it has experienced is 23f.

In my garden, Rhopalostylis sapida is only slightly more hardy than Archontophoenix cunninghamiana and both see damage below 30f.

Chamadora radicalis is quite hardy, but as a crown shafted palm not very showy. Mine has been nipped below 25f but not much.

Dick,

I think it all depends on the health and vigor of the palm. My dippy loves the heat here in Modesto and we are a bit warmer than WC.

Jeff

Jeff, This is an old post. Unfortunately, Dick is no longer with us.

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Hands down Dypsis Decipiens.

I have never had damage on my dippy and the coldest it has experienced is 23f.

In my garden, Rhopalostylis sapida is only slightly more hardy than Archontophoenix cunninghamiana and both see damage below 30f.

Chamadora radicalis is quite hardy, but as a crown shafted palm not very showy. Mine has been nipped below 25f but not much.

Dick,

I think it all depends on the health and vigor of the palm. My dippy loves the heat here in Modesto and we are a bit warmer than WC.

Jeff

Jeff, This is an old post. Unfortunately, Dick is no longer with us.

I knew that...Sorry I was zoning...

I tried to edit my post right after I wrote it... the edite button disappeared.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Jeff in Modesto

[Alicehunter2000]

Will probably experiment with DD here. I also wonder about D. stlucie....in comparison...anybody?

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Will probably experiment with DD here. I also wonder about D. stlucie....in comparison...anybody?

I tried several d. st. Lucie. All croaked at 28f.

Jeff

[aztropic]

I have a dozen or so Pseudophoenix sargentii of all sizes planted around the yard and they just went through 4 nights in the mid 20's,unprotected, without a scratch.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Jim in Los Altos]

Will probably experiment with DD here. I also wonder about D. stlucie....in comparison...anybody?

D. saintelucei is a sissy to cold. I had five and, in three years, I have just one and they die a very slow

death. I found out that they need very well draining soil if there's any chance of survival in a cooler

climate. My last remaining one is still small but decent looking.

[Mandrew968]

I hear Archontophoenix cunninghamiana variation Illiawara can take 22 degrees--of course I have no way to test down to that cold limit, but that's what is reputed. I have 4 in the ground at my in-laws and they saw no damage when we recently hit high 50's...

[Eric in Orlando]

I don't think the Illawarra form of Archontophoenix cunninghamiana is any hardier than the species. Back in the winter of 1995-96 we had a couple light freezes in December and a few in Jan. Then in Feb. it got down to 26F. We had several young "Illawarras" planted out along with "regular" A. cunninghamiana and A. alexandrae. The only ones that survived were the "regular" A. cunninghamiana. That winter it was the cumulative effects that killed tender palms.

[Eric in Orlando]

From my experiences here, the hardiest crownshaft palms have been;

Archontophoenix cunninghamiana

Areca triandra

Burretiokentia hapala

Clinostigma savoryanum

Dypsis baronii

Dypsis madagascariensis

Dypsis madagascariensis "Mahajanga form"

Dypsis pembana

Dypsis plumosa

Euterpe edulis

Normanbya normanbyi

Roystonea borinquena

Roystonea regia

Wodyetia bifurcata

[palmsOrl]

So I take it, aesthetically, we are not counting the Chamaedoreas mentioned as crown shaft palms due to their small stature? Technically, they would win since they are both rated to zone 8b, while none of the others mentioned are. Aside from these, I agree that Archontophoenix cunninghamiana stand out since mine, in 10 years unprotected, has never been substantially damaged (more than 25% burn) by our freezes here.

[Jim in Los Altos]

I hear Archontophoenix cunninghamiana variation Illiawara can take 22 degrees--of course I have no way to test down to that cold limit, but that's what is reputed. I have 4 in the ground at my in-laws and they saw no damage when we recently hit high 50's...

Nope, Illawara actually show damage in my landscape when cunninhamiana are fine. The advantage with the Illawara is that they grow a lot faster in my climate than cunninhamiana. The only really cold hardy Archontophoenix I know of is A. cunninghamiana "Ingrid". I have two of them and they always look flawless and are reported to be cold hardy to 17 degrees!

[DoomsDave]

I have a dozen or so Pseudophoenix sargentii of all sizes planted around the yard and they just went through 4 nights in the mid 20's,unprotected, without a scratch.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Might be worth a try in Texas, at least you have the high heat. On the other hand, you also have a longer cold season.

Maybe get a few babies and experiment?

[mulungu]

The only really cold hardy Archontophoenix I know of is A. cunninghamiana "Ingrid". I have two of them and they always look flawless and are reported to be cold hardy to 17 degrees!

Jim, this sounds very interesting. Where can more information about this variety be found? I was unsuccessful finding any further info about provenance and availability on a Google search.

[Jastin]

I wonder how long it took for that sp. to adapt and become cold hardy.

[Alicehunter2000]

The only really cold hardy Archontophoenix I know of is A. cunninghamiana "Ingrid". I have two of them and they always look flawless and are reported to be cold hardy to 17 degrees!

Jim, this sounds very interesting. Where can more information about this variety be found? I was unsuccessful finding any further info about provenance and availability on a Google search.

Yes..........please elaborate.....interesting indeed.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

On a whim, I looked up "Ingrid Australia" on Google Maps. I found a place in central Tasmania. Archontophoenix are not native to Tasmania, are they?

[Phoenikakias]

Istead of looking up in google maps you'd better take a look to a ... much closer site (http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/35620-searching-for-frost-hardy-archontophoenixbungalow-palm/).

[buffy]

Any news of this project?

Nope. I haven't tried any.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Istead of looking up in google maps you'd better take a look to a ... much closer site (http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/35620-searching-for-frost-hardy-archontophoenixbungalow-palm/).

Thanks Phoenikakias!

[Alberto]

I hear Archontophoenix cunninghamiana variation Illiawara can take 22 degrees--of course I have no way to test down to that cold limit, but that's what is reputed. I have 4 in the ground at my in-laws and they saw no damage when we recently hit high 50's...

Nope, Illawara actually show damage in my landscape when cunninhamiana are fine. The advantage with the Illawara is that they grow a lot faster in my climate than cunninhamiana. The only really cold hardy Archontophoenix I know of is A. cunninghamiana "Ingrid". I have two of them and they always look flawless and are reported to be cold hardy to 17 degrees!

Ingrid....I need you!

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Keith

"On a whim, I looked up "Ingrid Australia" on Google Maps. I found a place in central Tasmania. Archontophoenix are not native to Tasmania, are they?"

Centeral Tasmania is very mountainous and cold ! dropping to 20F or less . No palm is endemic to Tasmania .

Where i am coastal area it is very unusual for temps to drop below 32 F and i can even grow Archontophoenix alexandrae very well .

[Jim in Los Altos]

I hear Archontophoenix cunninghamiana variation Illiawara can take 22 degrees--of course I have no way to test down to that cold limit, but that's what is reputed. I have 4 in the ground at my in-laws and they saw no damage when we recently hit high 50's...

Nope, Illawara actually show damage in my landscape when cunninhamiana are fine. The advantage with the Illawara is that they grow a lot faster in my climate than cunninhamiana. The only really cold hardy Archontophoenix I know of is A. cunninghamiana "Ingrid". I have two of them and they always look flawless and are reported to be cold hardy to 17 degrees!

TYPO! I didn't notice 'til now that I typed "Ingrid" instead of "Inge". Archontophoenix cunninghamiana 'Inge' may still be available through Flora Grubb Nursery in San Francisco where I bought my five gallons. Jason Dewees (member here) would be the one to contact.

[JasonD]

We've sold 99% of our Inge's Hardy king crop, alas. There should be more in the future, thanks to Palmtalk member Bahia, David Feix.

[JasonD]

The only really cold hardy Archontophoenix I know of is A. cunninghamiana "Ingrid". I have two of them and they always look flawless and are reported to be cold hardy to 17 degrees!

Jim, this sounds very interesting. Where can more information about this variety be found? I was unsuccessful finding any further info about provenance and availability on a Google search.

Yes..........please elaborate.....interesting indeed.

Inge Hoffmann collected the seed from an Archontophoenix cunninghamiana population found, extremely improbably, near Atherton Tablelands in Queensland, well beyond its published indigenous range. The population was separate from other Archontophoenix species and not at a particularly high altitude.

At the time she was brokering seed or acting as the Seed Lady for the International Palm Society Seed Bank (I don't recall which). She grew on a few of the Atherton seeds herself and planted one of the plants in her garden in San Leandro, near Oakland, about 20 miles from San Francisco, not far from San Francisco Bay.

The palm was well established by the time the freeze of December 1990 hit California. The temperature in her garden likely reached below 24F (the lowest recorded at Oakland Airport, on the shore of SF Bay). The freeze was long, with 5 days in a row of lows below 32F and some daytime highs barely reaching 40F at the airport weather station. Another round of cold weather hit at the end of the month and in early January 1991. Many standard Bay Area garden plants were defoliated or killed by this freeze. The king palm lost all its leaves. However, it did recover a full crown and went on to produce viable seed. The trunk shows freeze damage.

As of a couple of years ago, David Feix was able to harvest seed from the tree. I don't recall whether Inge has any other kings in her garden or whether others are in the neighborhood. There aren't many around in general. The plants we grew came from a collection Ray Laub did from Inge's tree. Again, I don't know what the probability of hybrid pollen might be, but my hunch is that it was low. I can contact Ray to find out.

Ray's seedlings from Inge's tree showed much less damage from the January, 2007, freeze in his Los Altos Hills nursery (22F in the coldest, unprotected part of his property) than did the standard king seedlings he was growing side-by-side with Inge's. All the seedlings were protected but unheated.

The mother plant in Inge's garden is unmistakably Archontophoenix cunninghamiana. The strain doesn't seem to be particularly speedy, and is certainly not as fast-growing as the Illawarra-sourced seedlings in Bay Area gardens.

[ghar41]

The only really cold hardy Archontophoenix I know of is A. cunninghamiana "Ingrid". I have two of them and they always look flawless and are reported to be cold hardy to 17 degrees!

Jim, this sounds very interesting. Where can more information about this variety be found? I was unsuccessful finding any further info about provenance and availability on a Google search.

Yes..........please elaborate.....interesting indeed.

Inge Hoffmann collected the seed from an Archontophoenix cunninghamiana population found, extremely improbably, near Atherton Tablelands in Queensland, well beyond its published indigenous range. The population was separate from other Archontophoenix species and not at a particularly high altitude.

At the time she was brokering seed or acting as the Seed Lady for the International Palm Society Seed Bank (I don't recall which). She grew on a few of the Atherton seeds herself and planted one of the plants in her garden in San Leandro, near Oakland, about 20 miles from San Francisco, not far from San Francisco Bay.

The palm was well established by the time the freeze of December 1990 hit California. The temperature in her garden likely reached below 24F (the lowest recorded at Oakland Airport, on the shore of SF Bay). The freeze was long, with 5 days in a row of lows below 32F and some daytime highs barely reaching 40F at the airport weather station. Another round of cold weather hit at the end of the month and in early January 1991. Many standard Bay Area garden plants were defoliated or killed by this freeze. The king palm lost all its leaves. However, it did recover a full crown and went on to produce viable seed. The trunk shows freeze damage.

As of a couple of years ago, David Feix was able to harvest seed from the tree. I don't recall whether Inge has any other kings in her garden or whether others are in the neighborhood. There aren't many around in general. The plants we grew came from a collection Ray Laub did from Inge's tree. Again, I don't know what the probability of hybrid pollen might be, but my hunch is that it was low. I can contact Ray to find out.

Ray's seedlings from Inge's tree showed much less damage from the January, 2007, freeze in his Los Altos Hills nursery (22F in the coldest, unprotected part of his property) than did the standard king seedlings he was growing side-by-side with Inge's. All the seedlings were protected but unheated.

The mother plant in Inge's garden is unmistakably Archontophoenix cunninghamiana. The strain doesn't seem to be particularly speedy, and is certainly not as fast-growing as the Illawarra-sourced seedlings in Bay Area gardens.

Thanks Jim and Jason, great description of the famed Inge King Palm. Inge Hoffman has provided seed and inspiration to so many!

I have been growing Inge Kings also.

For many years I was unimpressed, and felt they were wimpy in the cold, no better than the standard King. Ive always preferred the Illawaras simply because they've grown so fast for me as well. But over the last few years the Inge Kings seemed to have held up better in the freezes- this year being the best yet. Ive had three nights at 27-28F and 15-20 days below 32F. Some of my Inge Kings have minor damage, others have more- while my Illawaras are almost completely defoliated. I have to note that the Illwaras stick out above the house, where its colder, and the Inge Kings that grew more slowly, still reside in the mid levels of my garden. Still, I am a convert- I believe the Inge's are more freeze hardy.

[ghar41]

Here is an "Inge Hoffman" King. This is the progeny I purchased as a seedling from Ray Laub seed collected from Inge Hoffmans A. cunninghamiana that survived the sub 25F nights of December 1990.

It looks rough- but not so bad considering we just went through 15-20 nights below 32F with 3 of those nights 27-28F. I didnt cover it, but it does sit at the mid level of my garden, below taller palms, about 6 feet away from my house.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Here is an "Inge Hoffman" King. This is the progeny I purchased as a seedling from Ray Laub seed collected from Inge Hoffmans A. cunninghamiana that survived the sub 25F nights of December 1990.

It looks rough- but not so bad considering we just went through 15-20 nights below 32F with 3 of those nights 27-28F. I didnt cover it, but it does sit at the mid level of my garden, below taller palms, about 6 feet away from my house.

Looks great, Glenn.

[RedRabbit]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I was wondering what the forum's thoughts are on Chambeyronia macrocarpa. Supposedly they're 9b, but I don't have experience with th personally.

[Alberto]

Certainly 9b

[quaman58]

I'm not in a 9b area, but can't remember having any  cold damage on any of the forms on these. ("regular", hookeri or houailou). I get a few nights at freezing for short periods every year. Now that i think of it, most NewCal palms seem pretty tolerant of some cold. Unfiltered sun is another matter.

[RedRabbit]

Thanks Alberto & Bret.