Sabal Palmetto in California`

[el-blanco]

I know Sabal Palmetto palms are as common as St. Augustine grass on the Gulf Coast. I am wondering why we never see them out here in Southern California?

I have a 5 gallon S. Palmetto I pulled up out of my grandfathers yard in Hommassassa Springs (TAMPA AREA) that I should have put in the ground many years ago. VERY ROOT BOUND. Always does fine and looks green as can be.

I like this tree and it reminds me of spending all my summers in Crystal River, Hommassassa, Weekii Watchee areas.

Anyone growing this in California?

THanks, Jeff

[rozpalm]

That's a good question. While they are as common as dirt here in Florida, I think this is one of the most impressive palms if for nothing else other then its ability to survive conditions that few palms can take. I have seen them burned up (even small ones) and they survive. I have seen them with 3' of water around their trunks for 9months and they survive. I have watched them go through a Cat 2 huricane and come out looking better then before the 'cane.

The best example of toughness I have seen, is when they are used for landscape along our roadways. I have seen them lying along the roadside with no fronds, no root ball protection and no water other then rain for up to four weeks and they still survive.

[Gonzer]

I believe there are more than half a dozen just south off Arcadia street in Vista, in front of the continuation school along the street, big 'uns too.

[el-blanco]

I believe there are more than half a dozen just south off Arcadia street in Vista, in front of the continuation school along the street, big 'uns too.

If you get a chance post a pic of theones you mentioned Gonzer.

Thanks, Jeff

[DoomsDave]

I have an uncle and aunt who live in Homossassa Springs (we give it a much more ribald nickname I'll spare in the interests of gentility . . . .) and I visited them last year.

LOVELY area. I didn't see Weekie-Watchie, but I did have a chance to rent a boat and also see the wildlife refuges that had a couple of, among much else, one-winged bald eagles, and a HUMONGOUS hippo. And, a cool pool for manitees along with the fish they hang out with.

Roared on down past Crystal Springs, etc., to Tampered . . . .. .

Sabals have a SEVERE image problem here. Back when I was "in the business" of selling palms, I found sabals to be an even tougher sell, to anyone, than even the spiniest, most sadistic Phoenix theophrastii. (Go 'head! Hug one nekkid'!)

First, Sabals look too much like Washies, which a lot of normal people despise as being fire hazards, never mind that Sabals don't keep a "skirt" of dead leaves.

Second, they eventually do get very large, though Florida sabals aren't as big as some species.

Third, though they get big, they take forever to get there, which means they're not much use as canopy palms.

These bad facts mean that the good facts get ignored: their sheer toughness, their lack of spines, the fact that they're relatively clean, and that fact that they take extreme heat and nasy cold (for short periods) very well.

And, they're beautiful, too, so clean and deep green, with those nice fat trunks, perfect for crashing your car into . . . .

Sterling attributes! But . . . .

The palm snobs don't like them, either. They all want a Corypha or a Tahina.

Sigh . .. .

[paulgila]

i have a small unidentified sabal which may be s.palmetto.no pix.

[freakypalmguy]

Here is a palm I bought a few years back as Sabal palmetto. It has doubled it's size, and does not even blink at my harsh weather. Occasional freezing temps with light frost in the winter with not a mark. Planted in full, all day sun and no burning from dry 90's to and occasional low 100F. It seams to grow all year around.

I also have a bunch of seedlings I am growing in the greenhouse and they are the easiest grow. Lot's of water, no water, 115F and they just keep going. These are really tough.

I love them.

Matt

[paulgila]

that one looks great,matt! i like em,too.wish i had more room,HINT HINT...

[pogobob]

I likem too

[freakypalmguy]

that one looks great,matt! i like em,too.wish i had more room,HINT HINT...

I can take a hint I need to PRA it to your house to check that baby out.

[FRITO]

my most favorite palm

as a kid in south florida we would use the old seed inflorescence or petioles on the fronds to "sword fight"

Edited December 10, 2008 by FRITO

[DoomsDave]

Well, I do have a nice Sabal Minor . . . .

[Wai`anae Steve]

LOVELY area. I didn't see Weekie-Watchie, but I did have a chance to rent a boat and also see the wildlife refuges that had a couple of, among much else, one-winged bald eagles, and a HUMONGOUS hippo. And, a cool pool for manitees along with the fish they hang out with.

Sigh . .. .

A HUMONGOUS hippo in the wild?????????? How funny is it to see the one winged eagles hop around?

[NBTX11]

Wouldn't Sabal Mexicana do better than Palmetto in Cal. They are from an area in S. TX that gets less rainfall than FL and are every bit as impressive as Palmetto once mature.

[el-blanco]

That Hippo is still alive. He/she is aptly named Lucifer (??). I had my picture taken with eat while feeding it a head of lettuce back in 1971 (6 years old - you do the math!).

I have no room to plant this one and I already have a Sabal Minor. "tuff" as nails!

I think I am going to command plant this one on a road side!

Any of you ever commando planted a palm? I have yet to do so as all my neighbors allow me to plant palms in their yards! Ralph Velez going here!! Where is Ralph anyways:

[bubba]

Dave, You got to make it to Weekiwatchi the next time. They have a cross-eyed mermaid,who is an avid performer. Sabals look good to me only in those mile upon mile clusters that are truly "God's Work".Some are tall, some are twisted up, some are curly and some have monkies crawling around in them.

[Mark Heath]

I likem too

Yeah,,,, right!!!

[monkeyranch]

The slow growth of sabals could actually be viewed as an asset. This palm's form with its costapalmate leaf curves and unique shade of green is best appreciated at ground level and not above your roofline. I love the look of juvenile palms especially in groups. Washingtonias are favored by growers because of their obvious speed and thus the market is flooded with them. Fine for canopy in our short lives. Another reason Sabals' absence may be that historicallyCali's population has been centered along the cooler coastal climates. Deserts, inland foothills, and central valley, have the heat for faster Sabal growth, and as the population moves more into these areas they should find greater popularity. Sabal minor is really underutilized probably because designers don't seem to be aware of palms as shady understory plants. Sabal 'Riverside' appears to grow fast enough to be a real winner too.

[Dave-Vero]

Sabal palmetto forms a big mound of leaves fairly rapidly. Then it takes years to build a substantial trunk.

Unfortunately, Florida residents haven't learned to love the mound phase--the usual "care" for such young plants is to whack most of the leaves off.

Palmettos in groups give Florida landscapes much of their distinctive look, and can make very effective large-scale landscaping. The local WalMart is pretty much hidden behind a screen of palmettos that have been left with their crowns intact; no overpruning.

Long-term cold tolerance is determinable from this species' native range. Back around 1973, I got to see the northernmost wild ones, on Bald Head Island (Cape Fear) near Wilmington, North Carolina. The coastal climate provides just enough cold protection. You see Sabal palmetto away from the coastline only in peninsular Florida.

There's every reason to believe that Sabal palmetto is one of the most wind-tolerant trees in existence. Moderate hurricanes don't faze them.

[Matthew92]

I would love to see a picture of an old Sabal palmetto in CA.

[Sabal Steve]

3 hours ago, Opal92 said:

I would love to see a picture of an old Sabal palmetto in CA.

Here's a stand of them in Balboa Park, San Diego.  I don't know how old these are, but I would guess >30 years.  Maybe 30 feet tall.  Surely not the oldest, but pretty old for California.  They're beefy, and the trunks are easily 2' wide, at chest height.

 

[Matthew92]

30 minutes ago, Sabal Steve said:

Here's a stand of them in Balboa Park, San Diego.  I don't know how old these are, but I would guess >30 years.  Maybe 30 feet tall.  Surely not the oldest, but pretty old for California.  They're beefy, and the trunks are easily 2' wide, at chest height.

Awesome, love it! Those look about as good as a S. palmetto can: and perfect example of how they should be pruned. I've heard it said on the forum before how everything seems to grow tall and thin in the CA climate, I wonder how tall these will get in the long term. 

[quaman58]

I've driven by these palms for years, never sure of their I.D. What do you guys think?

[quaman58]

I also considered Livistona, but didn't look like others I've seen. 

[Sanips]

19 minutes ago, quaman58 said:

I've driven by these palms for years, never sure of their I.D. What do you guys think?

They seem to be Livistona decora

Edited March 26, 2016 by Sanips

[quaman58]

I think you're probably right. My neighbor has one, but it's much thicker in the trunk. Thanks for that!

[Sabal Steve]

I think it's a Livistona too, but I'm not sure which one.

[Geoff]

Here are a few shots from California (at least identified as such)

1,2 and 4 from huntington.  3 from Los Angeles arboretum; 5 from Gary Wood garden and 6 from Living Desert out in Palm Desert

 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I think Palmetto are one of the uglier Sabals.  Of the cold hardy varieties Mexicana, Uresana, and Riverside are much more attractive IMO. 

[Sanips]

9 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

I think Palmetto are one of the uglier Sabals.  Of the cold hardy varieties Mexicana, Uresana, and Riverside are much more attractive IMO. 

100% agree 

[hbernstein]

On 12/9/2008, 6:45:18, DoomsDave said:

I have an uncle and aunt who live in Homossassa Springs (we give it a much more ribald nickname I'll spare in the interests of gentility . . . .) and I visited them last year.

 

LOVELY area. I didn't see Weekie-Watchie, but I did have a chance to rent a boat and also see the wildlife refuges that had a couple of, among much else, one-winged bald eagles, and a HUMONGOUS hippo. And, a cool pool for manitees along with the fish they hang out with.

 

Roared on down past Crystal Springs, etc., to Tampered . . . .. .

 

Sabals have a SEVERE image problem here. Back when I was "in the business" of selling palms, I found sabals to be an even tougher sell, to anyone, than even the spiniest, most sadistic Phoenix theophrastii. (Go 'head! Hug one nekkid'!)

 

First, Sabals look too much like Washies, which a lot of normal people despise as being fire hazards, never mind that Sabals don't keep a "skirt" of dead leaves.

 

Second, they eventually do get very large, though Florida sabals aren't as big as some species.

 

Third, though they get big, they take forever to get there, which means they're not much use as canopy palms.

 

These bad facts mean that the good facts get ignored: their sheer toughness, their lack of spines, the fact that they're relatively clean, and that fact that they take extreme heat and nasy cold (for short periods) very well.

 

And, they're beautiful, too, so clean and deep green, with those nice fat trunks, perfect for crashing your car into . . . .

 

Sterling attributes! But . . . .

 

The palm snobs don't like them, either. They all want a Corypha or a Tahina.

 

Sigh . .. .

One very positive attribute that often goes unnoticed is that the flowers have a wonderful fragrance.

[DoomsDave]

1 hour ago, hbernstein said:

One very positive attribute that often goes unnoticed is that the flowers have a wonderful fragrance.

I've never had occasion to notice!

Too busy with the hatched or chain saw . . . .

[monkeyranch]

Here are the ones on Bonair Road in Vista at the high school Gonzer mentioned.

 

 

[Matthew92]

On 3/28/2016, 4:58:59, monkeyranch said:

 

[Matthew92]

Some kind of glitch on this thread. When I tried to "plus" monkeyranch's previous comment, I got a message saying I'm not allowed to plus comments for monkeyranch.

Then, when I tried to make another comment, it would not let me quote anyone else, and instead, the blank comment bar was stuck with a pre-made empty quote box for monkeyranch and I couldn't enter any text. Got in and out of the browser, and still stuck like that (can see the result above, and it won't let me edit it).

Now for what I wanted to comment on:

On 3/26/2016, 8:17:05, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

I think Palmetto are one of the uglier Sabals.  Of the cold hardy varieties Mexicana, Uresana, and Riverside are much more attractive IMO. 

I would like to try Mexicana. Although from pictures I've seen, doesn't look terribly different from S. palmetto. (maybe a little larger scale overall, and trunk with a slighty different leaf base pattern). What do you like better about them?

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Overall i guess it boils down to a canopy size that matches the trunk size. Palmetto canopies seem so compact and tight to me. There isnt an "airyness" to them at all and they don't offer near as much shade as i feel they should. I've never once seen a palmetto and thought to myself, "that is an impressive palm". On the other hand I have seen several very impressive looking mexicanas. I like the more horizontal, gapped boots than the tight thatched looking boots on a palmetto so much so that I always cut the palmetto boots off and leave the mexicana boots on.

Just like the color of a car or a haircut it is nothing more than personal preference.  

[mcrawford]

I picked up a strange little 15 gal Sabal palmetto 8-10 yrs ago.

I bought it because I still had room in the truck and money

in the pocket; impulse buying, that is.  I got it home to central

Arizona and put it right away in full sun (115F).  The tips burn

a little, but usually as a call for more water.  A couple yrs after

I had this plant in the ground, (which also has taken 22F twice)

a friend comes by and tells me it is a rare mutant called Lisa.

Tough as nails, but pretty, well that's personal preference, I guess.