Coconut and Royal palms in Daytona Beach, FL

[Zeeth]

Does anyone know if coconuts and royals will grow in Palm Bay? There's a house about 4 miles from the Indian river that I have access to planting a few palms at and I was wondering if a Jamaican tall coconut might survive. I already have a Beccariophoenix alfredii selected to plant there and am thinking about a royal palm and a Bismarckia as well. I know the B. alfredii and Bismarckia will make it but I don't know how cold they get in the winter, so I'm curious if a coconut or royal would survive.

Judging by how severe the 2010 Freeze was, I think Coconuts should be fine, Especially close to the water, of course during the worst winters they get damaged especially more inland, Like the ones on Palm Bay Road, There is one on west Malabar road that did quite well, The parking lot is was in helped alot, There's also a bunch of Royals, Its called Colonial Plaza, The coconut is on the side of BB&T Bank.

Jamaican Tall would be the best choice, Any green variety over the Gold, My Gold was damaged this past year, While the green was untouched, While the temperature wasn't that cold, It was the still air which caused frost.

Royals should not be a problem, There are quite a few around Palm Bay/Melbourne. Look up 1676 Yamada Street, Its a fairly large royal, That picture was taken after the 2010 freeze.

But you know, The bigger they are, The better they withstand the freeze.

Thanks for that info! The coconut by the BB&T is farther inland than the house that I've done the planting, so a Jamaican tall probably should be able to survive where the house is, especially if I plant it on the SW side of the house

[Dakotafl]

Does anyone know if coconuts and royals will grow in Palm Bay? There's a house about 4 miles from the Indian river that I have access to planting a few palms at and I was wondering if a Jamaican tall coconut might survive. I already have a Beccariophoenix alfredii selected to plant there and am thinking about a royal palm and a Bismarckia as well. I know the B. alfredii and Bismarckia will make it but I don't know how cold they get in the winter, so I'm curious if a coconut or royal would survive.

Judging by how severe the 2010 Freeze was, I think Coconuts should be fine, Especially close to the water, of course during the worst winters they get damaged especially more inland, Like the ones on Palm Bay Road, There is one on west Malabar road that did quite well, The parking lot is was in helped alot, There's also a bunch of Royals, Its called Colonial Plaza, The coconut is on the side of BB&T Bank.

Jamaican Tall would be the best choice, Any green variety over the Gold, My Gold was damaged this past year, While the green was untouched, While the temperature wasn't that cold, It was the still air which caused frost.

Royals should not be a problem, There are quite a few around Palm Bay/Melbourne. Look up 1676 Yamada Street, Its a fairly large royal, That picture was taken after the 2010 freeze.

But you know, The bigger they are, The better they withstand the freeze.

Thanks for that info! The coconut by the BB&T is farther inland than the house that I've done the planting, so a Jamaican tall probably should be able to survive where the house is, especially if I plant it on the SW side of the house

Yes, I live in the Waco blvd area so i'm a good ways inland, We have so much of the usual stuff here though, But people are starting to plant more interesting things, Ive had enough endless rows of Crepe Mrytle and Indian Hawthorn bushes, Which i like but, Its just too damn much.

There was also a pretty small Gold coconut that survived the 2010 cold, Its in sort of a protected area, From what i know, The only protection was Christmas lights, But its right off waco so its a good ways inland.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Dakotafl

[Zeeth]

Does anyone know if coconuts and royals will grow in Palm Bay? There's a house about 4 miles from the Indian river that I have access to planting a few palms at and I was wondering if a Jamaican tall coconut might survive. I already have a Beccariophoenix alfredii selected to plant there and am thinking about a royal palm and a Bismarckia as well. I know the B. alfredii and Bismarckia will make it but I don't know how cold they get in the winter, so I'm curious if a coconut or royal would survive.

Judging by how severe the 2010 Freeze was, I think Coconuts should be fine, Especially close to the water, of course during the worst winters they get damaged especially more inland, Like the ones on Palm Bay Road, There is one on west Malabar road that did quite well, The parking lot is was in helped alot, There's also a bunch of Royals, Its called Colonial Plaza, The coconut is on the side of BB&T Bank.

Jamaican Tall would be the best choice, Any green variety over the Gold, My Gold was damaged this past year, While the green was untouched, While the temperature wasn't that cold, It was the still air which caused frost.

Royals should not be a problem, There are quite a few around Palm Bay/Melbourne. Look up 1676 Yamada Street, Its a fairly large royal, That picture was taken after the 2010 freeze.

But you know, The bigger they are, The better they withstand the freeze.

Thanks for that info! The coconut by the BB&T is farther inland than the house that I've done the planting, so a Jamaican tall probably should be able to survive where the house is, especially if I plant it on the SW side of the house

Yes, I live in the Waco blvd area so i'm a good ways inland, We have so much of the usual stuff here though, But people are starting to plant more interesting things, Ive had enough endless rows of Crepe Mrytle and Indian Hawthorn bushes, Which i like but, Its just too damn much.

There was also a pretty small Gold coconut that survived the 2010 cold, Its in sort of a protected area, From what i know, The only protection was Christmas lights, But its right off waco so its a good ways inland.

Have you tried Beccariophoenix alfredii where you are?

[Dakotafl]

Does anyone know if coconuts and royals will grow in Palm Bay? There's a house about 4 miles from the Indian river that I have access to planting a few palms at and I was wondering if a Jamaican tall coconut might survive. I already have a Beccariophoenix alfredii selected to plant there and am thinking about a royal palm and a Bismarckia as well. I know the B. alfredii and Bismarckia will make it but I don't know how cold they get in the winter, so I'm curious if a coconut or royal would survive.

Judging by how severe the 2010 Freeze was, I think Coconuts should be fine, Especially close to the water, of course during the worst winters they get damaged especially more inland, Like the ones on Palm Bay Road, There is one on west Malabar road that did quite well, The parking lot is was in helped alot, There's also a bunch of Royals, Its called Colonial Plaza, The coconut is on the side of BB&T Bank.

Jamaican Tall would be the best choice, Any green variety over the Gold, My Gold was damaged this past year, While the green was untouched, While the temperature wasn't that cold, It was the still air which caused frost.

Royals should not be a problem, There are quite a few around Palm Bay/Melbourne. Look up 1676 Yamada Street, Its a fairly large royal, That picture was taken after the 2010 freeze.

But you know, The bigger they are, The better they withstand the freeze.

Thanks for that info! The coconut by the BB&T is farther inland than the house that I've done the planting, so a Jamaican tall probably should be able to survive where the house is, especially if I plant it on the SW side of the house

Yes, I live in the Waco blvd area so i'm a good ways inland, We have so much of the usual stuff here though, But people are starting to plant more interesting things, Ive had enough endless rows of Crepe Mrytle and Indian Hawthorn bushes, Which i like but, Its just too damn much.

There was also a pretty small Gold coconut that survived the 2010 cold, Its in sort of a protected area, From what i know, The only protection was Christmas lights, But its right off waco so its a good ways inland.

Have you tried Beccariophoenix alfredii where you are?

No, I would like to, Haven't had the chance yet.

There is a great nursery on South Babcock road that has some pretty Unique plants, Its pretty awesome. You should check that out if your around there. Its called "Valkaria Gardens". Its in palm bay.

[Bill H2DB]

Bump... did any of these survive the 2010 freeze? I was just on Cocoa beach over the 4th and was impressed with the quantity and size of the coconuts, I have read many times that Cocoa Beach/Merritt Island is about the northernmost point on Florida's east coast to reliably-ish grow a coconut, Being a borderline area I was pleasantly surprised with numerous fruiting coconuts and other tropical palms. Here is one in Cocoa Beach taken just a couple days ago, These looked so good I hope something might have survived around Daytona

I live in the Daytona Beach area , and 99.94% of Cocos were killed in the 2010 long duration freeze when the temp just stayed in the low 30's

for days. ( I think that is the correct year ). Royals of any large size survived depending on the location.

Cocos died even on ICW down in the Edgewater area . The long durations get them .

A few of course have been planted since , and the Big Box stores do sell them anyway ..

I know of quite a number of large Royals around here , and to the north as well.

The weather here is deceiving , and many winter days are 20 deg colder than 4 miles or so inland.

Nights are warmer of course , but if there is a strong NW component to the wind , the cold can reach

the beach as well . I often see 16 deg difference from here , near the ICW , to the official temp at the

Airport in the morning , but also nearly as much colder in the afternoon , if the wind is off of the water . Cold and

clammy at the beach , and increasingly sunny as you go inland .

Our surf temp can go into the high 40's in some years ( not often) , and always into the low 50's .

[Xerarch]

There definitely seems to be a climatological boundary around Daytona, data I read suggests that native species like sea grape, and red mangrove go about that far north but not farther. Fishable populations of Snook also go about that far north, this coincides with water temp information stated above, Snook die off pretty heavily at water temps below 50 degrees.

[Xerarch]

Bump... did any of these survive the 2010 freeze? I was just on Cocoa beach over the 4th and was impressed with the quantity and size of the coconuts, I have read many times that Cocoa Beach/Merritt Island is about the northernmost point on Florida's east coast to reliably-ish grow a coconut, Being a borderline area I was pleasantly surprised with numerous fruiting coconuts and other tropical palms. Here is one in Cocoa Beach taken just a couple days ago, These looked so good I hope something might have survived around Daytona

I live in the Daytona Beach area , and 99.94% of Cocos were killed in the 2010 long duration freeze when the temp just stayed in the low 30's

for days. ( I think that is the correct year ). Royals of any large size survived depending on the location.

Cocos died even on ICW down in the Edgewater area . The long durations get them .

A few of course have been planted since , and the Big Box stores do sell them anyway ..

I know of quite a number of large Royals around here , and to the north as well.

The weather here is deceiving , and many winter days are 20 deg colder than 4 miles or so inland.

Nights are warmer of course , but if there is a strong NW component to the wind , the cold can reach

the beach as well . I often see 16 deg difference from here , near the ICW , to the official temp at the

Airport in the morning , but also nearly as much colder in the afternoon , if the wind is off of the water . Cold and

clammy at the beach , and increasingly sunny as you go inland .

Our surf temp can go into the high 40's in some years ( not often) , and always into the low 50's .

Let's see, at 99.94%, you would need to start at 10,000 coconuts to get only 6 survivors!

[Bill H2DB]

"Let's see, at 99.94%, you would need to start at 10,000 coconuts to get only 6 survivors! "

That about describes it, essentially no survivors except for some unknown small one here or there with

super effort to save.

I had a small one here at my house ( 3' ) , and I wrapped it up with 3 layers of blankets for the duration ,

and it died . Not my first victim( though the last ) . I am in a warm area.

Sea grapes are interesting , as are Strangler Figs here. Sea grapes can get good sized here , and then

inevitably are frozen flat to the ground , but if they are an older established plant will strongly regrow , to repeat the cycle.

In the New Smyrna Beach area it is interesting to see the progression of sizes as one goes from the North end of

the National Seashore Park to the south . A steady increase .

Ponce Inlet/ Spruce Creek is the northern real extent of the Red Mangroves

In warm times , Strangler Figs are found , but almost all will die during a stout freeze. There is a long term survivor

at the Sugar Mill Gardens in Port Orange ,a part of area. ( we have 7 cities/towns in the area ).

Same with Jacaranda's etc , and a few Banyans , and a lot of other stuff that has appeared since the big chain stores

started selling plants that apparently are chosen by the South Florida buyers .

We are in Never Never Land here in some respects . Too cold to have successful Tropical plants for fruiting etc ,and

too warm to provide chilling hours for Temperate zone stuff. The varieties of Apples etc developed for low hours really

aren't successful here in town due to that. Inland is different .

[Eric in Orlando]

There definitely seems to be a climatological boundary around Daytona, data I read suggests that native species like sea grape, and red mangrove go about that far north but not farther. Fishable populations of Snook also go about that far north, this coincides with water temp information stated above, Snook die off pretty heavily at water temps below 50 degrees.

Bump... did any of these survive the 2010 freeze? I was just on Cocoa beach over the 4th and was impressed with the quantity and size of the coconuts, I have read many times that Cocoa Beach/Merritt Island is about the northernmost point on Florida's east coast to reliably-ish grow a coconut, Being a borderline area I was pleasantly surprised with numerous fruiting coconuts and other tropical palms. Here is one in Cocoa Beach taken just a couple days ago, These looked so good I hope something might have survived around Daytona

I live in the Daytona Beach area , and 99.94% of Cocos were killed in the 2010 long duration freeze when the temp just stayed in the low 30's

for days. ( I think that is the correct year ). Royals of any large size survived depending on the location.

Cocos died even on ICW down in the Edgewater area . The long durations get them .

A few of course have been planted since , and the Big Box stores do sell them anyway ..

I know of quite a number of large Royals around here , and to the north as well.

The weather here is deceiving , and many winter days are 20 deg colder than 4 miles or so inland.

Nights are warmer of course , but if there is a strong NW component to the wind , the cold can reach

the beach as well . I often see 16 deg difference from here , near the ICW , to the official temp at the

Airport in the morning , but also nearly as much colder in the afternoon , if the wind is off of the water . Cold and

clammy at the beach , and increasingly sunny as you go inland .

Our surf temp can go into the high 40's in some years ( not often) , and always into the low 50's .

High 40s ???? Yikes ! I don't remember the water being that cold when I surfed. That is awful. I used to surf at Ponce Inlet and the Sunglow Pier late 80s/early 2000s. The coldest I remember the water being in winter was around 57/58F. I never wore a springsuit unless the water was below 65F.

[Bill H2DB]

It has been as low as 46 in my time , and has stayed there for days at a time . Not often though . Most winters will see a period flirting

with 50 +/- for a short time. During warmups it will rebound to the high 50's to low 60's if the winds are SE , bringing

in Gulf Stream waters.

We get an interesting coastal fog event once or twice a winter , when there is a gentle humid warm air flow from the SW

that is cooled by our cold waters . The Beachside , ( and mainland for a few blocks ) can be shrouded in fog , with the tops of

the tall buildings protruding . The rest of the town is sunny and warmer at this time . . As the light winds decrease or increase , the fog

expands and retreats through the day . Pretty nifty .

Here is a link to the Daytona Beach News Journal after the Christmas Freeze of 1983 . It was terrible. Nothing tropical survived here.

Little did we know that the 1985 Super Bowl Sunday freeze was in our future .

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=OWslULmvb_UC&dat=19831227&printsec=frontpage&hl=en

[Eric in Orlando]

Then Christmas 1989 to top it off

[Walt]

A large body of water (ocean/Gulf) is sometimes a singled edge sword. The thermal innertia of the water sure helps moderate air temperature in proximity of it, keeping nighttime air temperatures relatively higher vis a vis outlying areas. But conversely, especilly if wind is coming off the water, it holds down daytime temperatures. The law of physics dictates you can't have it both ways.

But that being said, nighttime low temperatures, with respect to a coconut palm, is more crucial than daytime highs, at least in central Florida.

The problem with both January and again in December of 2010, for the most part, in areas in proximity to water, was the protracted period of below (but not necessarily freezing) temperatures. I checked the FAWN website and saw where soil temperatures during some nights dropped into the 50s after days and days of below normal temperatures.

In my environs, I'd say 90% of coconut palms close to the lakes survived from the December 2010 freezes and abnormally cold days. Also, the ones on high ground survived. The ones that died were either on low ground and got defoliated, but the ones near water weren't defoliated for the most part, but they definitely were induced into severe manganese and potassium deficiencies.

In December of 2010 I recorded six nights below 30 degrees F. Three of those nights were below 25 degrees, with the lowest being 20.8 degrees, my all-time low temperature since when I moved here in 1997. All of these nights were radiational cooling.

My small coconut palm below was totally fried. Only because I wrapped the trunk and meristem with a heating cable, plus wrapped over that with heavy mover's quilts, did it survive. My soil temperatures must of stayed warm enough over all.

This past winter was fairly mild, but my coconut palm did get severe potassium deficiency to the lower most 4-5 fronds. I cut off three of these fronds once they pretty much turned dark orange and brown. There are still two left (lower most) that still show the signs of mineral deficiency. But younger and new for this year fronds look great.

And for the first time in at least three years my coconut is sending up two spathes. Only once has it set some small fruits (that never matured) since I planted it (with no trunk) maybe 6-7 years ago. For some reason, whatever variety of coconut mine is, it's been a very slow grower. However, having a short trunk will allow me to protect the trunk and meristem for many more years without having to resort to using a ladder.