More palms in South Texas

[Big Tex]

Bizmarcks close to Progresso, Texas. Bismarcks are not as common in this area but are surely a showing a growing presence over the past 5 years.

This huge one is located on South Padre Island

Triangle Palm (Dypsis decaryi )

These two were just growing un-cared for on the other side of the fence from the condos.

[Big Tex]

I have to add this typical picture too. For those who haven't been to South Texas the area is loaded with Sabal texana and Washingtonia filifera. On the south side of Brownsville there is even a Sabal texana forrest whichh is a protected area. It seems the Sabal texana is probably the most popular pal with the washingtoniacoming in a close 2nd. Most all you find are very old specemines.

Most of the Washingtonia filifera are very old and are damaged by wind erosion.

[fastfeat]

BigTex--

Thanks for the pics. Any idea how often this area sees frost, or when the last cold snap of significance was?

[Jim in Los Altos]

Tex,

Love those Bizzies! Those towering Washingtonias are robustas though. Filifera's trunks are much fatter and straighter and not as tall. Washingtonia robusta used to be the most common palm around here until Queen palms took their title away.

[NBTX11]

BigTex--

Thanks for the pics. Any idea how often this area sees frost, or when the last cold snap of significance was?

They don't usually get any, in fact many winters are zone 10b, although it is zone 10a long term.

[oliver]

We got snow for the first time ever, on Christmas day, about 3 years ago. Didn't really harm anything though, since about 3 hrs after it snowed, the sun came out and brought the temperature into the low 70's in Brownsville and on South Padre. I have 4 coconuts which didn't even flinch. I did lose a bottle palm, which I covered and put a heater under the cover. When I took the cover off, the tree was cooked. Next time you are in the area Big Tex, let me know and I will point you to some really nice palm gardens. You would be surprised what a couple of us are growing here. We have some rare Dypsis, Veitchias, Carpoxylons, Archontophoenix and many others, in addition to some really cool cycads. Although, we are supposedly a zone 9B, I really think that the climate is much closer to 10b.

[Big Tex]

BigTex--

Thanks for the pics. Any idea how often this area sees frost, or when the last cold snap of significance was?

It snowed heavily there in 2005 and did a little bit of damage I'm told. But other than that, they rarely see much below 40.

We got snow for the first time ever, on Christmas day, about 3 years ago. Didn't really harm anything though, since about 3 hrs after it snowed, the sun came out and brought the temperature into the low 70's in Brownsville and on South Padre. I have 4 coconuts which didn't even flinch. I did lose a bottle palm, which I covered and put a heater under the cover. When I took the cover off, the tree was cooked. Next time you are in the area Big Tex, let me know and I will point you to some really nice palm gardens. You would be surprised what a couple of us are growing here. We have some rare Dypsis, Veitchias, Carpoxylons, Archontophoenix and many others, in addition to some really cool cycads. Although, we are supposedly a zone 9B, I really think that the climate is much closer to 10b.

Thanks for the offer Oliver. We usually make a trip down to that area about twice a year. I would love to get some local advice on where to go. My wife and just love the Brownsville area. Hey, I think 10b is much more realistic too.

Edited December 31, 2008 by Big Tex

[DoomsDave]

Bout once every 50 years or so, the Rio Grande Valley gets hammered by a nasty freeze, where the temps fall to about the mid-teens, F.

Don't spend a lot of money on palms, the Hammer is coming one day.

Alas!

[oliver]

Dave, you're just jealous cause I got bigger coconuts than you!

[palmdudetx]

Bout once every 50 years or so, the Rio Grande Valley gets hammered by a nasty freeze, where the temps fall to about the mid-teens, F.

Don't spend a lot of money on palms, the Hammer is coming one day.

Alas!

Say Dave,

Looks like the hammer found southern calif. last winter .

MG

South Tex.

[NBTX11]

Bout once every 50 years or so, the Rio Grande Valley gets hammered by a nasty freeze, where the temps fall to about the mid-teens, F.

Don't spend a lot of money on palms, the Hammer is coming one day.

Alas!

20F yes, Mid teens no. There haven't been any since 1899 well over 100 years ago. I like the odds, and would not be disuaded to spend money on odds (which are less than 1%). There basically has been a couple freezes in the 18-19F range in the last 100 years (1989 was one, 1962 got down to the 19-20F range and thats about it). The rest of the record lows for Dec and Jan the last 100+ years are in the 20s and 30s.

[Big Tex]

Bout once every 50 years or so, the Rio Grande Valley gets hammered by a nasty freeze, where the temps fall to about the mid-teens, F.

Don't spend a lot of money on palms, the Hammer is coming one day.

Alas!

We have only had one day like that here in Houston and that was in 1983 I believe. In fact, I lived in Miami in 1989 when I work up to snow falling. I guess it can happen anywhere. Until then, I will keep spending money on palms that might get hammered any year and enjoy every penny of it. Heck, if I am around in 50 years to see it I will be lucky

Dave, I think most of those who had coconuts soaked the coconuts in water and just planted the thing. I did the same thing with several we found washed up on the beach. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[paulgila]

Triangle Palm (Dypsis decaryi )

what were the three stumps in the front of the planter?

great pix,btw.i also enjoyed the cocos pix in yer other thread.

[fastfeat]

Triangle Palm (Dypsis decaryi )

what were the three stumps in the front of the planter?

great pix,btw.i also enjoyed the cocos pix in yer other thread.

Look like cacti to me. I first thought they were some dead palms too.

[paulgila]

they did look like palm stumps at 1st glance

just like in mattyb's yard.

[NBTX11]

Bout once every 50 years or so, the Rio Grande Valley gets hammered by a nasty freeze, where the temps fall to about the mid-teens, F.

Don't spend a lot of money on palms, the Hammer is coming one day.

Alas!

We have only had one day like that here in Houston and that was in 1983 I believe. In fact, I lived in Miami in 1989 when I work up to snow falling. I guess it can happen anywhere. Until then, I will keep spending money on palms that might get hammered any year and enjoy every penny of it. Heck, if I am around in 50 years to see it I will be lucky

Dave, I think most of those who had coconuts soaked the coconuts in water and just planted the thing. I did the same thing with several we found washed up on the beach. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

1989 was bad too, and there were a couple other good freezes in SC and SE TX in the 80s (ie: Houston and San Antonio). But the good thing is that the RGV is just so flat out far south, that it's just so difficult for it to see hard freezes. The cold air has to travel too far south and has been moderated by then. Can it happen, sure, but so infrequent that you just can't worry about it.

[Xavierdlc61887]

We got snow for the first time ever, on Christmas day, about 3 years ago. Didn't really harm anything though, since about 3 hrs after it snowed, the sun came out and brought the temperature into the low 70's in Brownsville and on South Padre. I have 4 coconuts which didn't even flinch. I did lose a bottle palm, which I covered and put a heater under the cover. When I took the cover off, the tree was cooked. Next time you are in the area Big Tex, let me know and I will point you to some really nice palm gardens. You would be surprised what a couple of us are growing here. We have some rare Dypsis, Veitchias, Carpoxylons, Archontophoenix and many others, in addition to some really cool cycads. Although, we are supposedly a zone 9B, I really think that the climate is much closer to 10b.

back in 05 and its the second time actaully but whos counting eh?? anyways yeah they got some pretty cool palms down here that people dont really know they are unique

[fastfeat]

What is the climate/rainfall like, compared to SoFla? Is it mostly summer rain/dry winter? How many inches of rainfall average?

[NBTX11]

What is the climate/rainfall like, compared to SoFla? Is it mostly summer rain/dry winter? How many inches of rainfall average?

They get about half the rainfall S. FL gets. Maybe 28-30 inches a year approximately. Still very humid though being on or near the coast. The further up the TX coast you go (towards Houston), the more rainfall you get until around Houston you get just as much as FL. They also have the summer T-Storms like FL.

[fastfeat]

What is the climate/rainfall like, compared to SoFla? Is it mostly summer rain/dry winter? How many inches of rainfall average?

They get about half the rainfall S. FL gets. Maybe 28-30 inches a year approximately. Still very humid though being on or near the coast. The further up the TX coast you go (towards Houston), the more rainfall you get until around Houston you get just as much as FL. They also have the summer T-Storms like FL.

Thanks Jim.

I'll have to make the drive some time. Farthest south I've been was Corpus Christi, on a trip to San Antonio. Sounds like a different world a few hours further south...

[NBTX11]

What is the climate/rainfall like, compared to SoFla? Is it mostly summer rain/dry winter? How many inches of rainfall average?

They get about half the rainfall S. FL gets. Maybe 28-30 inches a year approximately. Still very humid though being on or near the coast. The further up the TX coast you go (towards Houston), the more rainfall you get until around Houston you get just as much as FL. They also have the summer T-Storms like FL.

Thanks Jim.

I'll have to make the drive some time. Farthest south I've been was Corpus Christi, on a trip to San Antonio. Sounds like a different world a few hours further south...

Don't know when you went to Corpus, but CC is very palmy as well. San Antonio has a lot of cold hardy palms too. Nothing compared to the Valley though, definitely worth the trip IMO.

[iamjv]

For those interested in the historic freezes of the valley check out the links below... Jv

Valley freeze part II

Valley freezes in the 1980's

[bubba]

That RGV looks great.Dam the freezes.Still enjoy that "No Country For Old Men" plex/protocall.Remember the coin flip at the Country Store? Serious as a heart attack!

[Big Tex]

what were the three stumps in the front of the planter?

great pix,btw.i also enjoyed the cocos pix in yer other thread.

They are Madagascar Palms (Pachypodium lamerei). The usually lose their leaves in the winter and go dormant. So in the area have and some have not.

I have a much smaller specimen in a pot. Here is a picture of it last August when it had leaves on it.

[Walter John]

they did look like palm stumps at 1st glance

just like in mattyb's yard.

right of reply ?

[richtrav]

I have to add this typical picture too. For those who haven't been to South Texas the area is loaded with Sabal texana and Washingtonia filifera. On the south side of Brownsville there is even a Sabal texana forrest whichh is a protected area. It seems the Sabal texana is probably the most popular pal with the washingtoniacoming in a close 2nd. Most all you find are very old specemines.

Most of the Washingtonia filifera are very old and are damaged by wind erosion.

Just for clarification, those are W. robusta. Both get trunk rot in our humid climate, a lot of which is cold damage but general old age causes some weathering as well. W. robusta is still king in South Texas, especially if you include the intermediate forms. Fusarium has been affecting a small number of them but not enough to make much of a dent. S. mexicana also grows wild around the resacas in my neighborhood north of Brownsville, it's not just confined to the river. Interestingly the washingtonias and S. palmetto did better in Hurricane Dolly than the native palmettos.

Those "100-year freezes" come around on average about every 16-17 years but that's just an average and they tend to be clustered together. The 1880s-90s and 1980s were particularly bad, but 50 years passed between the Big One in 1899 and the two freezes of 1949 and 1951. The climate here has definitely warmed up since 1990. The 2004 snow set some things back but it was only 28 and soon forgotten as it hasn't gone below 35 since. People are getting pretty brazen about growing things in landscapes here whose days are numbered even with a warm cycle (adeniums, alluadias, bottle palms, etc). Thing is they look great. When you have large Ficus benjamina around on most blocks in town it's easy to believe that the climate really is tropical (in fact I think I see one in the W. robusta pic above)

[_Keith]

Just for clarification, those are W. robusta. Both get trunk rot in our humid climate, a lot of which is cold damage but general old age causes some weathering as well. W. robusta is still king in South Texas, especially if you include the intermediate forms. Fusarium has been affecting a small number of them but not enough to make much of a dent. S. mexicana also grows wild around the resacas in my neighborhood north of Brownsville, it's not just confined to the river. Interestingly the washingtonias and S. palmetto did better in Hurricane Dolly than the native palmettos.

Those "100-year freezes" come around on average about every 16-17 years but that's just an average and they tend to be clustered together. The 1880s-90s and 1980s were particularly bad, but 50 years passed between the Big One in 1899 and the two freezes of 1949 and 1951. The climate here has definitely warmed up since 1990. The 2004 snow set some things back but it was only 28 and soon forgotten as it hasn't gone below 35 since. People are getting pretty brazen about growing things in landscapes here whose days are numbered even with a warm cycle (adeniums, alluadias, bottle palms, etc). Thing is they look great. When you have large Ficus benjamina around on most blocks in town it's easy to believe that the climate really is tropical (in fact I think I see one in the W. robusta pic above)

Did you guys not get bit by the freeze of 63. Hit So. Louisiana pretty hard.

Keith

[Tad]

come to Weslaco I will show you some palms!

[richtrav]

There was a freeze in Jan '62 but it wasn't a big citrus killer and never got as much attention as earlier or later freezes. That was the freeze that brought record cold to El Paso and deep into Mexico, it actually snowed in Xilitla. It preceded the big Florida freeze by 11 months. I've heard 1962 was also a bad winter in Europe

[Xavierdlc61887]

HEY!!!!!! TAD is back....wooooooop lets see some pics tad