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Posted

I am fairly new to the board but I have enjoyed reading up on the posts. My wife and I are in the process of buying our first home in the greater Phoenix area. We moved here about a year ago and I love the palms! I fell in love with palms about 12 years ago and have been looked forward to planting some of my own since then. I would like some suggestions on what kind of palms I can grow that would be more unique.

It seems like most of the more exotic palms people are growing are either painfully slow growing (i.e. Pseudophoenix) or have spines that my 1 year old would not enjoy (i.e. Acrocomia) or are not very well suited to the climate.

It seems that the most common palms are common for a reason. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

Ammon

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

Posted

Greetings & WELCOME AMMON!!

I think that there aren't a plethora (or overkill) of Bismarckia nobilis in the Valley of the Sun...yet as with Queen palms, and I feel that as they are a wonderful, rich silver-blue in frond colour...and are also dramatically angular in frond form, they really play off cacti & succulent plants splendidly! They'll take Phoenix' heat, extended dryness & wind with only minimal utilization of drip irrigation once established.

Hope that's a "starter" Ammon. I know our fellow members will present you with a bunch of other excellent palm choices for your area!

Cheers & Happy New Year 2009!

Paul

Paul, The Palm Doctor @ http://www.thewisegardener.com

Posted

Sabal uresana, Brahea armata, Beccariophoenix alfredii, Nannorrhops ritchiana, Jubaea chilensis, Butiagrus, Chamaerops cerifera, Brahea decumbens, and Phoenix sylvestris are all good candidates

  • Like 1
Posted

Thanks for the suggestions, Bismarckia is definatley on the list, they are becoming more popular now though but I suppose that's ok. Brahea armata is also somewhat common but I think it's probably worth a try also. I'll have to look up Beccariophoenix alfredii. Many of the suggested palms are slow growing but I guess I'm in this for the long haul and should not expect instant gratification.

Thanks again

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

Posted

Brahea brandegeei would be near the top of my list.

SoCal and SoFla; zone varies by location.

'Home is where the heart suitcase is'...

_____

"If, as they say, there truly is no rest for the wicked, how can the Devil's workshop be filled with idle hands?"

Posted

Ammon,

I have been growing uncommon palms in the Mesa, Arizona area for about 12 years now.I have planted and killed dozens of exotic palms around my yard over the years so at this point,I have a pretty good idea of what is uncommon but hardy,what will survive with a little protection,and what is pretty much a no go due to the extreme summer heat.All of the suggestions up to this point have been good with the exception of Jubaea chilensis.Not saying it wont grow here but out of several I have planted,only 2 are doing well,and both of them are in very shaded areas.The others with any amount of direct sun look sunbleached or die in August.A hardy palm that hasn't been mentioned, yet is readily available here,is Butia capitata (pindo palm).They are kind of slow also so start with the biggest you can afford.Definately get a Bismarckia and a Brahea.Both are uncommon but bulletproof here.A couple other species that are uncommon but do well without any care here are Acoelorrhaphe,Acrocomia,Allagoptera,Hyphaene,Livistona,Rhapidophyllum,Sabal,Sere

noa,and Trithrinax.There are literally dozens of palms that will do well here with a little protection.(grow only on east side of house or have large trees to the west that will protect your tree from the burning western summer sun.More common species in this catagory include Arenga,Coccothrinax,Hyophorbe,Pseudophoenix,Roystonea,Trachycarpus,and Wodyetia. Most importantly,remember that any thin skinned palm with a crownshaft will need protection from the burning western summer sun in AZ.Foxtails and royals can do ok here but will be killed if exposed to long summer direct sun afternoons.If you need help in locating any of these palms,I can point you in the right direction.Alot of the rarer palms you may want to try someday are only available by taking a trip to CA or FL or you can mailorder some smaller examples. Hope this gives you a few ideas.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

Posted

Thanks for all the information. I have some research to do. I really like Butias that you mentioned but most of them around town are quite chlorotic and I haven't seen very many good-sized ones. I'll probably end up planting some anyway though, I like Butia fruit. I might get back to you when the time comes about places to aquire the palms. Thanks again.

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

Posted

hi ammon.welcome to palmtalk.

you need to make aztropic yer new best friend! :lol:

the "prince of snarkness."

 

still "warning-free."

 

san diego,california,left coast.

Posted (edited)
I am fairly new to the board but I have enjoyed reading up on the posts. My wife and I are in the process of buying our first home in the greater Phoenix area. We moved here about a year ago and I love the palms! I fell in love with palms about 12 years ago and have been looked forward to planting some of my own since then. I would like some suggestions on what kind of palms I can grow that would be more unique.

It seems like most of the more exotic palms people are growing are either painfully slow growing (i.e. Pseudophoenix) or have spines that my 1 year old would not enjoy (i.e. Acrocomia) or are not very well suited to the climate.

It seems that the most common palms are common for a reason. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

Ammon

Welcome to the IPS board and to phoenix Ammon. The common palms sold here tend to be the easiest to grow, the most idiotproof. In our area, the most common are:

Washingtonia filifera, robusta

Phoenix roebelinii, dactylifera, Canariensis

Syagrus Romanoffiana

Brahea armata are suprisingly uncommon, one house in our development( of 400+) has them aside from me. In my last house, nobody had them(500+ house development). Since our soils are slow draining clay, palms like butia capitata, brahea armata, bismarckia nobillis should be either elevated from the surrounding soil by mounding and/or heavily ammended with sand for drainage. At any rate do not put one of these along a drainage path along a block wall(low spot), as they will do poorly.

Butia capitata and syagrus also dont like our alkaline soils, so they should be planted with sulfur ammendment, and then sulfur should be added to the root base area 2x a year for 4-5 years to shift the soil pH towards neutral. This is true of any palm that relies on Mn, Mg, Fe heavily as they tend to not be bio available at high soil pH. Our soils are mostly high calcium, this means that adding epsom salt to balance the Ca/Mg ratio in the soil is a good idea 1-2x a year. The AZ dry heat and dry winds can be a problem for small palms, as stated by scott(aztropic), be very careful of western sun exposure as it can burn the trunks and even leaflets of many palms here. The "common ones" above can take that western sun, but perhaps only brahea armata, bismarckia can be added to that list. If you want to grow uncommon palms, develop some wind block hedges and overhead canopy trees to cut some of the sun. Larger lots will have more problems with sun exposure and drying wind, smaller closer in lots have shade from adjacent houses. Overhead canopy trees can greatly protect the more temperature sensitive palms, "Randy" from chandler has a few foxtails that survived 20F freeze of '07 while other had their foxtails die in that freeze. Good canopy is worth +5 degrees F warmer in winter by trapping radiative heat. Another cold defeating "trick" is to plant close to the house, worth probably 3-5 degrees as well. In summary, winter freezes and intense sun are the two biggest limitating factors here. If you can deal with those effects by picking or creating a suitable microclimate, the number of choices opens up a bit.

I have in the ground:

Brahea armata(needs full sun)

Butia capitata(doesnt like late day sun)

syagrus

phoenix roebelinii, sylvestris, reclinata are tough in the suns, rupicola(needs alot of shade)

chamaerops humilis, plus the "cerafera" blue version

serenoa repens(needs alot of shade)

Bismarckia(needs full sun)

roystonea borinquena(under canopy for cold tolerance, likes alkaline soils unlike roystonea regia)

Foxtails(under canopy for cold tolerance)

Beccariophoenix "no windows"(jury is out on this one in the desert heat yet)

Parajubaea torallyi(another unknown in the ground as a small palm, but is notably more dry tolerant than syagrus, so there is hope)

sabal minor(no western sun)

sabal blackburniana( limit western sun)

sabal bermudana(limit western sun)

Livistona chinesis(no western sun, not too much overhead sun)

livistona decipiens(no intense sun)

Hyphaene thebaica (needs full sun)

Nannorrhopps ritchiana(very tough palm)

I have a number of others I will be planting out this year in shaded spots in the yard. If you dont have shade, that is a good place to start if you want some uncommon palms in your yard.

Edited by sonoranfans

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

Posted

Some others to consider;

Pseudophoenix sargenti

Leucothrinax morrissii

Coccothrinax argentata

Coccothrinax crinita

Medemia argun

Copernicia alba

C. prunifera

C. macroglossa

Livistona mariae

L. nasmophila

L. rigida

L. alfredii

L. eastonii

L. inermis

L. victoriae

Ravenea xerophila

Hyphaene coriacea

H. thebaica

Borassus aethiopum

B. flabellifer

Allagoptera arenaria

Phoenix theophrasti

P. acaulis

P. rupicola

Sabal etonia

S. uresana

Acrocomia totai

  • Upvote 1

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

Posted

I have been growing palms in the Phoenix area for years, with many species that I should not be trying :lol: .... One nice palm is Livistona mariae, it has a nice red color in the leaves when young and a nice gray-green when older.... Tolerates full sun and wind and our alkaline soils.... below is a photo of one of mine....

Butia is good but have found that ones with more gray-green leaves do better in our alkaline soils than the more green leaf ones....

post-111-1231798190_thumb.jpg

  • Like 1

Phoenix Area, Arizona USA

Low Desert...... Zone 9b

Jan ave 66 high and 40 low

July ave 105 high and 80 low

About 4 to 8 frost a year...ave yearly min temp about 27F

About 8 inches of rain a year.

Low Desert

Phoenix.gif

Cool Mtn climate at 7,000'

Parks.gif

Posted
Greetings & WELCOME AMMON!!

I think that there aren't a plethora (or overkill) of Bismarckia nobilis in the Valley of the Sun...yet as with Queen palms, and I feel that as they are a wonderful, rich silver-blue in frond colour...and are also dramatically angular in frond form, they really play off cacti & succulent plants splendidly! They'll take Phoenix' heat, extended dryness & wind with only minimal utilization of drip irrigation once established.

Hope that's a "starter" Ammon. I know our fellow members will present you with a bunch of other excellent palm choices for your area!

Cheers & Happy New Year 2009!

Paul

And here's a photo I took in Rockhampton last year showing exactly what Paul the palmdoctor is talking about. The look most definitely works for me.

That's IPS Director Phil on the left and Colin "who needs some seeds ?" Wilson on the right.

post-51-1231798607_thumb.jpg

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

Posted

I second the Ravenea xerophila suggestion!!!!!!

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

Posted
I second the Ravenea xerophila suggestion!!!!!!

Ravenea xerophila does fine out here but again, is as slow as a pseudophoenix.I have a few smaller ones that have been in the ground for years and are only about 2 gallon size (32 inches tall).I recently broke down and brought a 7 gallon speciman back from FL as I can't wait forever anymore to get some size to them.It is 50 inches tall with a 2 inch diameter base.Even in FL,this is a hard palm species to locate with any size to it.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

Posted

OK AZtropic, you want something rare here is a rare dessert palm that I have never seen. It looks like it would do well in AZ. I just can't get around the price of the seeds. One of these days I will buy some. It looks like a washie with costapalmate leaves.

Medemia argun

http://www.rarepalmseeds.com/pix/MedArg.shtml

Ed Mijares

Whittier, Ca

Psyco Palm Collector Wheeler Dealer

Zone 10a?

Posted

OK AZtropic, you want something rare here is a rare dessert palm that I have never seen. It looks like it would do well in AZ. I just can't get around the price of the seeds. One of these days I will buy some. It looks like a washie with costapalmate leaves.

Medemia argun

That one looks like it would be right at home in Phoenix.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

Posted

Anyone try Borassus out in the AZ?

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Posted (edited)

Dave..... Rod in north Phoenix has a few Borassus that are doing well.... I have tried a few but loss them to transplant shock.... they have a very sensitive roots that hates to be damage....

Edited by chris78

Phoenix Area, Arizona USA

Low Desert...... Zone 9b

Jan ave 66 high and 40 low

July ave 105 high and 80 low

About 4 to 8 frost a year...ave yearly min temp about 27F

About 8 inches of rain a year.

Low Desert

Phoenix.gif

Cool Mtn climate at 7,000'

Parks.gif

Posted

I think Ravenea xerophila is very slow no matter where it is planted.

Here is ours, photo was taken 2 years ao. Its not much bigger today. It was planted out May 1998 from a 1 gal pot.

afc3.jpg

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

Posted

Anyone try Borassus out in the AZ?

I had one planted out but lost it to the freeze of Jan 2007.Have 1 five gallon size that I will plant out this spring and try again.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

Posted

Heres a pic of my Ravenea xerophila taken today.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

001.jpg

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

Posted

what a beautiful grouping! well done!

the "prince of snarkness."

 

still "warning-free."

 

san diego,california,left coast.

Posted
Heres a pic of my Ravenea xerophila taken today.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

001.jpg

Beautiful palms - Nice going AZ

Ed Mijares

Whittier, Ca

Psyco Palm Collector Wheeler Dealer

Zone 10a?

Posted

Is that really a bottle palm ?

post-51-1231924289_thumb.jpg

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

Posted
Greetings & WELCOME AMMON!!

I think that there aren't a plethora (or overkill) of Bismarckia nobilis in the Valley of the Sun...yet as with Queen palms, and I feel that as they are a wonderful, rich silver-blue in frond colour...and are also dramatically angular in frond form, they really play off cacti & succulent plants splendidly! They'll take Phoenix' heat, extended dryness & wind with only minimal utilization of drip irrigation once established.

Hope that's a "starter" Ammon. I know our fellow members will present you with a bunch of other excellent palm choices for your area!

Cheers & Happy New Year 2009!

Paul

And here's a photo I took in Rockhampton last year showing exactly what Paul the palmdoctor is talking about. The look most definitely works for me.

That's IPS Director Phil on the left and Colin "who needs some seeds ?" Wilson on the right.

post-51-1231798607_thumb.jpg

That look does "pop", Wal. I even use it in humid SE Florida except with more blue-green media-picta agaves, which actaully love this local weather!

Cheers, mate!

Paul

Paul, The Palm Doctor @ http://www.thewisegardener.com

Posted
Is that really a bottle palm ?

post-51-1231924289_thumb.jpg

The frond all the way to the right of the picture is from a big bottle palm, but the one you are pointing out is actually a Gaussia gomez - pompae. It currently looks like a basketball with a very thin crownshaft on top.Seems to grow twice as fast as the bottle palm yet is still very rare in cultivation.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

Posted

Cool, I have never seen that available here, only seem to get Gaussia maya.

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

Posted

Here is a pic of the bottle palm with the gaussia behind it. The bottle palm has a much thicker crownshaft.It has been in the ground about 7 years now.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

003.jpg

  • Like 1

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

Posted

Here is a pic of my bismarkia.It too has been in the ground for 7 years. Both palms were planted out from 3 gallon buckets.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

001-2.jpg

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

Posted

Another "blue" palm that is bulletproof here in the desert is this blue med fan palm. This one was planted out as a 1 gallon about 3 years ago.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

002.jpg

  • Like 1

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

Posted

Now I want one of those basketball palms. I guess they would work in Clifornia if that one is doing so well in AZ.

Ed Mijares

Whittier, Ca

Psyco Palm Collector Wheeler Dealer

Zone 10a?

Posted
I am fairly new to the board but I have enjoyed reading up on the posts. My wife and I are in the process of buying our first home in the greater Phoenix area. We moved here about a year ago and I love the palms! I fell in love with palms about 12 years ago and have been looked forward to planting some of my own since then. I would like some suggestions on what kind of palms I can grow that would be more unique.

It seems like most of the more exotic palms people are growing are either painfully slow growing (i.e. Pseudophoenix) or have spines that my 1 year old would not enjoy (i.e. Acrocomia) or are not very well suited to the climate.

It seems that the most common palms are common for a reason. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

Ammon

Ammon:

Great to see you on the board! I think back to when I started planting - very exciting! Do as much research as you can. Find pictures of mature plants so you will know what to expect. Unusual plants are tough to find - but rewarding when you can find them. Someone told me once, that if you find a plant you want - get it - you may never see it again!

As for my suggestions, you've seen my yard (a bit obsessive compulsive), but I don't have any grass or a pool. All of the Livistonas will take full sun, the Acrocomia is a real fast grower, not all hyphaene's or borassus will grow here (I know - I've tried) - you've got to have the correct species.

As for your 1 year old, anything you plant will have issues (unless you plant large enough specimens to have started trunking - $$??). You may have to fence off part of your yard.

Some species you'll just have to start from seed. Getting plants is tough with the restrictions the Az Ag department has; although I've made my share of trips to California to get stuff (thanks Phil Bergman!!!!!).

Rod

Phoenix

Posted

As I've mentioned before,the species Pseudophoenix does wonderfully here in the desert.It is very slow when young, producing only one new frond per year; but once a trunk has formed,I am seeing 2 and even 3 new fronds per year on my fastest.The pic below shows a Pseudophoenix vinifera in the center with a few sargentii's around it for good measure!

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Pseudophoenix002.jpg

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

Posted

Nice pics aztropic, we will have a pretty good size backyard by Arizona standards but there is still an obstacle to overcome, the lousy HOA. They have restrictions on what you can plant in both the front and back yards. Once the builder is done and out, I can't imagine that the board will care too much about what I put in the back yard but we will see I guess. I am prepared to make a case to for them to let me plant what I want. We may even try to get on the board.

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

Posted
Nice pics aztropic, we will have a pretty good size backyard by Arizona standards but there is still an obstacle to overcome, the lousy HOA. They have restrictions on what you can plant in both the front and back yards. Once the builder is done and out, I can't imagine that the board will care too much about what I put in the back yard but we will see I guess. I am prepared to make a case to for them to let me plant what I want. We may even try to get on the board.

The HOA is going to be your biggest obstacle. I've heard from friends that they weren't able to plant much in the front yard; but, the only limitation in the back yard was that they could plant what they wanted in the back yard just as long as you couldn't see anything from the street. Is it too late to back out and find another location?

Rod

Posted

Buying a house with an HOA attached is probably not a good decision if you want to seriously get into growing your own choice of landscaping.I unfortunately did the same thing and argued about planting trees for a couple of years before finally joining the board and becoming vice president.Now,as you can see,I am free to do what I want to my own yard within reason.As far as your backyard goes,I don't think there is much they can say about what you plant.I have found that it is better to just plant it and argue about it later,rather than ask and always be told NO.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

Posted

Ya, I don't know why anyone thinks they need to mandate what I can use in my own backyard. Fortunately, size or water use does not seem to bother the ones who made the rules in this hoa. Trees like the Indian laurel fig, Cottonless cottonwood, and Arizona ash are all on the "approved" list. All are huge and use water. It is too late to get out of the deal and.. alas.... palms were not the only consideration when looking for a home anyway. If I plant palms now it will be years before many of them reach over the wall and into visibility anyway, I'm counting on the fact that nobody will care by then.

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

Posted
Ya, I don't know why anyone thinks they need to mandate what I can use in my own backyard. Fortunately, size or water use does not seem to bother the ones who made the rules in this hoa. Trees like the Indian laurel fig, Cottonless cottonwood, and Arizona ash are all on the "approved" list. All are huge and use water. It is too late to get out of the deal and.. alas.... palms were not the only consideration when looking for a home anyway. If I plant palms now it will be years before many of them reach over the wall and into visibility anyway, I'm counting on the fact that nobody will care by then.

HOA's are hot subjects in certain areas of Arizona. Depending on the individuals involved, it might be o.k. and then it may be hell. Aztropic is correct, get on the board asap - get things moving sooner and not later. One would think that planting anything found in habitat in the Sonoran Desert would be o.k. Unfortunately, that would also include Washingtonians, Dioons, & etc.

I've seen those lists put out by HOA's. A lot of don't plant this. If water was really the problem, then they should start limiting pools, ponds, and fountains.

rod

Posted

Ammon,

Here is an older shot showing the large cuban royal trunks with some smaller coccothrinax acting as ground cover.Many exotic palms will do well in the Phoenix area.Don't be afraid to experiment;a few things are going to die along the way, but that is just another opportunity to try something else!

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

yard016.jpg

  • Like 1

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

Posted

What is an HOA?

Some kind of contract limiting your Right to Bear Palms?

Cheers,

Jonathan

South Arm, Tasmania, Australia - 42° South

Mild oceanic climate, with coastal exposure.

 

Summer: 12°C (53°F) average min, to 21°C (70°F) average daily max. Up to 40°C (104°F max) rarely.

 

Winter: 6°C (43°F) average min, to 13°C (55°F) average daily max. Down to 0°C (32°F) occasionally, some light frost.

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