Brahea clara more water tolerant than B. armata ?

[merrill]

Brahea clara and B. armata are considered the same species.  It would be very interesting to hear any observations about their relative moisture tolerance.

[richtrav]

Merrill

I have no idea whether they're the same species or not, as far as I know Dr. Felger still considers them B. elegans but he admits the relationship between the Baja and Sonoran braheas needs some clarification. I do have some blue brahea elegans/armata types from coastal Sonora that tolerated daily overhead watering this summer, anywhere from 30-70 minutes. They grew like weeds (for a Brahea at least), but they were also in full blazing TX sun in black 10 gal containers and it was a hot dry summer here.

The blue forms are supposedly most common near the coast of central Sonora, often around creeks and soaks, where it tends to be in the upper 90s to low 100s in the summer, 80s at night, with a fair amount of humidity in the air. They freely grow amongst greener forms. They probably get flooded every few years, especially in the creekbeds, but drought is definitely the rule of the day. I think the annual rainfall around San Carlos is about 12"/yr, falling mostly in the summer. Florida may be pushing it but it's worth a try. Surely it can't be worse than Bajan armata. Has great potential for Texas

Richard

[Eric in Orlando]

Here B. clara seems to tolerate our high humidty much better than B. armata. The B. clara has never had fungal problems while B. armata always was spotted. The B. armata seems to have outgrown this as it is not as bad as it used to be. We did lose a good sized B. clara from a bud rot. The best Brahea seems to be B. elegans. No fungal problems ever and a dwarf. B. armata seems to be more silvery than B. clara which is more blue-green. Brahea elegans has a nice blue coloring.

Brahea clara

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph.....src=ph

Brahea armata

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph.....src=ph

Brahea elegans

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph.....src=ph

[richtrav]

Eric

Have you ever tried B. aculeata? It's been thriving at Fairchild for years but is not fast. Also Brahea nitida prefers more mesic conditions and may do well in Florida. It is green and somewhat resembles  a Livistona chinensis when young, only prettier I think (for looks it's hard to beat some of Merrill's hybrids, the ones at Kanapaho are gorgeous)

That picture you have of elegans looks uncomfortably close to aculeata, I understand they intergrade in eastern Sonora. Do you know the origin of your plant?

[Eric in Orlando]

I never have gotten a B. aculeata but it is on the list to acquire. I have seen a specimen at a local collectors house that is growing well. We also have brandegeei, dulcis, and nitida growing well. Brahea edulis will just not grow here. I have tried several times and it always gets bud rot.

The B. elegans seed source was from habitat in Alamos, Sonora.

[merrill]

Thanks for the info, Rich and Eric.  It certainly sounds as if Kew isn't the last word regarding Brahea elegans.  Where is Dr Felger's work available?  Here in Gainesville, FL, both armata and edulis are relatively  short lived, with a small advantage for armata.  If my memory serves, UF had two edulis for about 8 years.

[richtrav]

Merrill

Dr Felger and E Joyal wrote an article "The Palms of Sonora" for Aliso back in 1999.  Things could have changed since then but I don't know of any better publication on Sonoran palms. Somebody may have since studied  the relationship between the Sonoran braheas and Baja populations but I don't know of any published botanical work.

[merrill]

Eric: In spite of the Brahea difficulties in Florida, B. edulis X  B. brandegeei has survived quite well - about 20' and 20 years, and slightly coldhardier than W. robusta.

Rich:  UF's inter library loan is in meltdown.  Do you know a source of Felger's reprint, such as Rancho Santa Ana Botanic Garden, the apparent publisher?  I've emailed Dr. Felger, but a few years have passed since publication.  tx, merrill

[richtrav]

Eric

According to the distribution map in Palms of Sonora B. elegans does not occur south of the latitude of Guaymas (B aculeata does however). Alamos gets quite a bit of summer rain.

[merrill]

Hi, Eric:

B. edulis X B. brandegeei still survives, but its growth rate slows. Except for its outstanding attraction to palm weevils, its been thoroly satisfactory! It required extreme measures for protection against the weevil.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[Kailua_Krish]

I have had good luck with Clara seedlings in Ocala while all of the armata seedlings start spotting and die. I'm assuming that's due to humidity and moisture.

-Krishna