Dwarf Palm Suggestions

[buffy]

I live in Zone 8a, but I'm building a unique place with some interesting possibilities. I have a planting area that is 4' wide by 15' long. Three feet to the West of the bed is a heated pool. Immediately to the East is a screened-in porch of the pool house. So it goes heated pool, 3' of flagstone path, 4' bed then pool house. On the south side of the bed are two levels of stone terraces going up the hill containing densely planted and contained bamboo. This will minimize the problems of advective freezing. So basically, I have a little pocket area. When nights are predicted to drop below 25F, I'll crank the pool heater on. The heater is ridiculously oversized for the application for this purpose; therefore, the plant material shouldn't see anything below 28F or so (EVER). This amazing situation leaves me clueless. I need recommendations. Here are the requirements:

1. Material must not get much above 3' tall. I'm talking about dwarf palms with a little cold tolerance. I want to sit on the screened in porch and still see the kids in the pool.

2. It needs to have good cool tolerance since it will see plenty wet cold weather in the 30s and 40s.

3. No leaf damage at 28F. OK, I'm willing to push it a bit here.

4. I like to see foliage create color, not so much flowers. Are there any dwarf palms with cool emergent leaves? Exotic variegations?

I'm looking for palm recommendations specifically; however, please throw any non-palm suggestions my way too. I love tropical. I don't want any die back type material. Always green = always happy.

I'll humor one taller plant for the corner, but I'm leaning Dypis decipiens right now.

I'm happier than a puppy with two peters.

Edited January 22, 2009 by buffy

[MattyB]

Chamaedorea radicalis

If you stick a 3 or 4 foot shade cloth or lath overhang on the pool house you'll increase your warmth...and add shade for understory type stuff.

[buffy]

Chamaedorea radicalis If you stick a 3 or 4 foot shade cloth or lath overhang on the pool house you'll increase your warmth...and add shade for understory type stuff.

I already grow this without protection. Although the trunkless variety in the bed as filler is not a bad idea. Thanks for the recommendation. Also, the pool house is a fully heated building. That'll help a lot. As another requirement, the palm needs to handle quite a bit of shade.

Edited January 22, 2009 by buffy

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

Buffy:

I'd do:

1. Phoenix robelini

2. European Fan palm

3. any smaller cycads

4. any Raphis

5.Livistona chinensis

I'd probably put all palms in 15-30 gal. containers. (Just for "safety sake!)

Good luck with your project!

Paul

[palman]

I like Paul's ideas.

Kat, what do you think?

[MattyB]

holy crap you grow C. rad without protection? How are you an 8A then? Shoot, try Beccariophoenix then. That's not dwarf though, it's soooo slow.

[buffy]

Buffy: I'd do: 1. Phoenix robelini 2. European Fan palm 3. any smaller cycads 4. any Raphis 5.Livistona chinensis || I'd probably put all palms in 15-30 gal. containers. (Just for "safety sake!) Good luck with your project! Paul

Having some variegated Rhapis doesn't sound too bad. I don't need safety. I have two separate heaters. Thanks

Anything more exotic. I don't like common.

[buffy]

holy crap you grow C. rad without protection? How are you an 8A then? Shoot, try Beccariophoenix then. That's not dwarf though, it's soooo slow.

I'm Zone 8a, but that doesn't really reflect my experience over the past 20 years. The airport has ranged between 17F and 24F for the lowest temperature the past 12 years. I'm always 3-4 degrees warmer than that. This year I've barely broken 25F. Eventually I'll see another Continental freeze event, but that won't matter in this little microclimate.

[Joe palma]

Trachycarpus nanus would do fine and should not mind the shade, certainly not need protection.

I'd say Butia archeri but it might not like the shade.

Allogoptera arenaria although it might get over 3' eventually.

Of course I like Mattys suggestion of the C. radicalis (non-trunking).

How about Chamaeodrea elegans or metallica? Should handle your low temps. The elegans is slow and easy to dig up if it gets to tall.

And as Paul mentioned, Rhapis, one of the smaller ones (loasensis), should work.

How about the dwarf Dypsis lutescens, if you can find one.

[Kostas]

The Chamaerops humilis can handle your weather unprotected so no need to be in such a good spot In your position,i would try Licuala ramsayi,Licuala ''mapu'',Chamaedorea elegans,a Geonoma sp.,Licuala peltata var. sumawongi and a tender tree fern maybe as you can grow most Dicksonia unprotected there,in a moist place.The second species may be marginal but the others should do ok in that spot you made

Btw,although i havent grown any other Chamaedorea,C. elegans is not slow for my standards as in just 2,5years from seed,mine is close to 2feet tall and on its second year,it grew 5 leaves and now on its third,it may grow even more!

[Joe palma]

The Chamaerops humilis can handle your weather unprotected so no need to be in such a good spot In your position,i would try Licuala ramsayi,Licuala ''mapu'',Chamaedorea elegans,a Geonoma sp.,Licuala peltata var. sumawongi and a tender tree fern maybe as you can grow most Dicksonia unprotected there,in a moist place.The second species may be marginal but the others should do ok in that spot you made

Btw,although i havent grown any other Chamaedorea,C. elegans is not slow for my standards as in just 2,5years from seed,mine is close to 2feet tall and on its second year,it grew 5 leaves and now on its third,it may grow even more!

Are you sure it is an elegans Kostas?? That is incredible growth, faster than tepejilote!!

[Kathryn]

Kat, what do you think?

Chamaedorea! I have the following in the ground under some Livistona chinensis palms and the temperature in the open yard has been as low as 28ºF during the last three winters: Chamaedorea costaricana, ernesti-augustii, glaucifolia, plumosa and tepejilote. I also have potted Chamaedorea oblongata (may favorite Chamaedorea for inside and out) and a potted Chambeyronia macrocarpa in the same area that have done well. I have Chamaedorea metallica on my screened porch - this would probably need some overhead protection from cold and frost.

Livistona chinensis and Phoenix roebelenii would both do well in pots for many years - they like the shade and wouldn't grow so fast in pots.

For one that would get taller, but not too wide, I would try Carpentaria acuminata or Ptychosperma elegans - I have both of these in the ground on the south side of my house.

[ron@springhammock]

Maybe pushing it a little, but Pinanga coronata 'kuhlii', might work. It has nice mottled broad leaves and takes cold pretty well. They may even take 28F, but wouldn't look very good. In my 9b climate I keep palms like this in plastic liners and keep a same sized liner set in the ground so I can just pop them out of the ground when a hard freeze threatens and bring them in the garage. I use hardier palms, like C. radicalis as filler around the more exotic ones in liners. With the pool house near by, you would have easy access for a quick refuge when needed. Just an idea.

[Steve in Brookings]

1. Brahea decumbens

2. Lytocaryum weddelianum

3. Rhapis multifida

4. Linospadix monostachys

5. Guihaia argyrata

Edited January 23, 2009 by Steve in Brookings

[Hollywood Palms]

Lytocaryum weddelianum are great! Plant, ignore and they grow.

David

[Kostas]

The Chamaerops humilis can handle your weather unprotected so no need to be in such a good spot In your position,i would try Licuala ramsayi,Licuala ''mapu'',Chamaedorea elegans,a Geonoma sp.,Licuala peltata var. sumawongi and a tender tree fern maybe as you can grow most Dicksonia unprotected there,in a moist place.The second species may be marginal but the others should do ok in that spot you made

Btw,although i havent grown any other Chamaedorea,C. elegans is not slow for my standards as in just 2,5years from seed,mine is close to 2feet tall and on its second year,it grew 5 leaves and now on its third,it may grow even more!

Are you sure it is an elegans Kostas?? That is incredible growth, faster than tepejilote!!

Hello Joe!

Unfortunately i cannot be sure its a C. elegans as i dont know what to look for a definite id.I collected three seeds myself from a trio of speciemen growing in a patio at an indent of a building here in Athens,just oustide its entrace One was female and had three ready black fruits on it which i collected.I lost one when it formed a leaf without any root at all,and a second due to a misshap with watering when i left(wasnt getting enough water from the sprincler i positioned it close to )but the third is alive and well and has been one of my most well taken after palm!

I have always kept it indoors and it passed most of its first 2 years in a very bright spot,getting an hour or a little more morning sun during the summer(and it never burned!It just never was the dark green a shade grown Chamaedorea is but now in a little less bight spot,its has got 2 dark green leaves and another new one darkening...).Maybe the high light levels and yearround high tempratures have contributed to its fast growth But i would very much appreciate if you could take a look at this thread of mine where there are a few older photos of my palm and tell me what you think it is Its parents looked typical for a Chamaedorea elegans to me at the time but i never had a look at all Chamaedorea species and in fact here,you can only find C. elegans and another bamboo like Chamaedorea i dont know the name of(as i dont like it too much...).Please let me know what you think of it!

Thank you very much in advance!

[Ken Johnson]

"Dwarf Coconut"

[buffy]

Lytocaryum weddelianum are great! Plant, ignore and they grow. David

Wow. I love that. That might be the winner as the corner palm. I love the idea of Dypsis decipiens, but it needs sun. So it looks like this is my list of palms:

1. Lytocaryum weddelianum

2. Rhapis excelsa or humilis w/ heavy variegation (that should help it stay small)

3. Chamadorea radicalis (non trunking) (Great fruit coloration)

Lytocaryum weddelianum

Edited January 23, 2009 by buffy

[kristof p]

maybe a Geonoma gamiova. this little palm can tolerate cool weather and some frost but i dont know how much. it's a very nice little palm with a red coloured new leaf...

Chuniophoenix nana is also a nice small palm.

[kristof p]

holy crap you grow C. rad without protection? How are you an 8A then? Shoot, try Beccariophoenix then. That's not dwarf though, it's soooo slow.

i dont see any problems for C. radicalis in a z8 in Texas. i grow them without protection in a z8 at 51°N.

these little gems are quite hardy!

[Tejastropicals]

I would say Cham. metallicas, a Jubaeopsis for the corner or a Chambeyronia macrocarpa, and some Licualas or Joeys as more risky possibilities but small enough to protect further. You say you can keep it above 28f but frost is sometimes a bigger issue. If the bed is prepared for good drainage a Brahea decumbens would be nice also. I'm near Coldspring, we should get together sometime. David