Floridians....Heads Up

[spockvr6]

Hey Larry - something unusual happened last night. St. Pete/Clw airport reported one degree warmer than Albert Whitted. I don't think that happens often, what do you make of it?

A broken clock is still right twice a day!

LOL.

I think it was actually the reverse (Albert Whitted 1 degree warmer than Clearwater AP). But, even this is npt the norm as the spread is usually higher. But, with one logging 42 and the other 43F, it doesnt matter much anyway

But, Im really starting to see that the AP readings really just arent that applicable to many areas surrounding the APs. Just a short distance away from each of them were a good number of amateur stations which read as much as 10F colder! In no instance that I can readily see did an amateur station read as high or higher than these two APs.

[spockvr6]

As long as nothing else happens that's freakish..I think this St. Pete grower will come out with flying colors.

Same here.....looks like everything will turn out fine.

Although, I will surely be pleased if my most tender palm (P. pacifica) manages to make it through this winter! There has just been so much extended cold that has stressed this palm.

[spockvr6]

The most incredible thing about this last front was the humidity level. I logged a low dewpoint of 7.6F! UNREAL!

[falcon1988]

hmmm thats the same as back last year in jan 3 of 08 had enough of these

cold winters time for much warmer ones

[Davidl]

Scott those temps are wrong for the city of clewiston and the town of palmdale. Clewiston or anywhere near clewiston was above 35 degrees not 29 and here is a link

http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation...5&year=2009

This temp is from clewiston airport which is 6 miles from clewiston and several miles from lake okeechobee in a cane field and this might be what you were reading im not sure

http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation...5&year=2009

This was the city of palmdale reading

http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation...5&year=2009

And this is saying palmdale but its not its several miles from there in a cow pasture.

http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation...5&year=2009

my point is that out here in no where land it might say one thing but mean another.

[spockvr6]

The FAWN numbers for Clewiston and Palmdale were as shown in the image below.

Of course, other stations in the same general area may have reported different numbers, but where these stations are located, the below was observed.

[Walt]

Scott those temps are wrong for the city of clewiston and the town of palmdale. Clewiston or anywhere near clewiston was above 35 degrees not 29 and here is a link

http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation...5&year=2009

This temp is from clewiston airport which is 6 miles from clewiston and several miles from lake okeechobee in a cane field and this might be what you were reading im not sure

http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation...5&year=2009

This was the city of palmdale reading

http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation...5&year=2009

And this is saying palmdale but its not its several miles from there in a cow pasture.

http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation...5&year=2009

my point is that out here in no where land it might say one thing but mean another.

Dave, many temperature recording stations are in areas outside a particular town, city, etc., but are attributed to said town. Some of these more remote stations run far colder than in said town -- as you know and are trying to point out.

All of the FAWN stations are in rural, outlying areas and are not representative of the town or city closet to them. The FAWN sites serve mainly agriculture needs, hence why they are in outlying locations.

Take the Palmdale FAWN station as an example. It' located at the forestry station near the intersection of US 27 and SR 29 towards Labelle. It's in the boondocks, 25 miles south of Lake Placid. Yet, FAWN almost always runs 10 degrees or more colder than the town of Lake Placid. Even at my place, less than 2 miles (as the crow flies) runs far colder than the town of Lake Placid.

When it comes to nighttime low temperatures in Florida (even in the same general area), they follow the same axiom as in real estate: Location, location, location!

[bubba]

Just a follow up on David's information. The Palm Beach Post reported Pahokee low of 37F. on Feb.5,2009.Maybe that old gentleman farmer was on the money!

[ruskinPalms]

I live in the boonies and I can believe those FAWN readings even that far south in the state. When there is no canopy on radiational cooling nights, things get real ugly real fast. I think that is what I have learned over the last couple of winters. I need more canopy! What is nice about where I live is that I seem to be spared the worst of advective events. I can always nuture my oak trees to create a nice canopy to protect my yard better from radiational freezes but there isn't a hell of a lot I could do to protect myself better from advective freezes. SO, eventually as my oaks get larger, I will have less and less damage each year - I hope.

[ruskinPalms]

And looking at the forcast, it looks like the we will be pushing 80F here soon for an extended period - so even though it freezes here, the cold is usually puntuated by warm periods. Some people think that is bad for the palms to have warmth after cold like this but I truly don't think so. I think the whole concept of 'hardening off' is extremely overated, at least for tropical species. I think it is important to get damaged palms to start opening photosynthesis capable leaves as fast as possible even if it means they just get damaged again in a week. Really - palms don't like to sulk for extended cool periods - that is why you can see big old coconuts and big old royals down in inland south florida that look amazing even though they really do experience true hard freezes from time to time. And the strong sun at lower latitudes is truly amazing, even on the coldests days here if you are in the sun, it is never truly cold.

[epicure3]

And looking at the forcast, it looks like the we will be pushing 80F here soon for an extended period - so even though it freezes here, the cold is usually puntuated by warm periods. Some people think that is bad for the palms to have warmth after cold like this but I truly don't think so. I think the whole concept of 'hardening off' is extremely overated, at least for tropical species. I think it is important to get damaged palms to start opening photosynthesis capable leaves as fast as possible even if it means they just get damaged again in a week. Really - palms don't like to sulk for extended cool periods - that is why you can see big old coconuts and big old royals down in inland south florida that look amazing even though they really do experience true hard freezes from time to time. And the strong sun at lower latitudes is truly amazing, even on the coldests days here if you are in the sun, it is never truly cold.

I would agree. Palms are living things, just like everything else. If you shock it going from hot to cold, that's not a good thing. Especially tropical species. I would agree that going from cold to hot is probably much better since warm is what is normal for them. My tropical species do tend to sulk in the winter due to our prolonged cold (well, most people in Chicago would say cool). However, they usually end up the winter in pretty good shape. Now, we can debate what is a tropical species and what is not. A coconut is obvious and resents such prolonged cool weather that, a few examples aside, just doesn't grow here. However, Roystonea, veitchia, hyophorbe, pritchardia, gaussia, etc....are all tropical species that do just fine here. So, while they sulk, the cool weather ultimately does not damage to them but only results in overall slower growth.

I'm glad you guys are getting back to normal.

[gsn]

IMO this hardening off ,or acclimating of palms to cold weather has merrit to a point.

Naturally if a palm/plant goes from warm, to cool, to cold, it should be able to handle the cold better,than a sudden shock from many days of 80F to 32F all at once,damage wise.

I think where some people go off track is thinking they can, through the acclimation process actually lower the absolute cold tolerance of a given palm.

I beleive every palm species,or plant species for that matter, has an absolute low that it can't go below,and survive,ie: it is genetically predisposed to croak at certain cold temps. In other words at a certain low temp the palm is basically killed out right! Of course I'm sure there is a small amount of variation in cold tolerance of individuals within the same species,but doubt highly it is more than a degree or two, probably a lot less than that?

I beleive this probably affects us in northern and central Florida, more so than South Florida, or so Cal,as we are more vunerable to these absolute low temps.

As we have those pesky continential cold fronts that if they make it here, can lower temps below those absolute killing temps. These killing temps,whatever they be for any species,can NOT be offset by any amount of warming days afterward. However I do beleive our quick warm up periods help with palms that were not killed outright, but damaged recover faster than if it stayed cool for an extended period of time after the event.

just my 2 cents

Edited February 7, 2009 by gsn

[gsn]

David, Bubba,

I don't disagree with you at all,except that I do beleive those were the actual temps off those FAWN sites, but I could be wrong even on that.

As an example I beleive here in Titusville they use the Shuttle Landing Facility as the temp most used for Titusville,especially by the media. It is directly east of us,but is on Merrit Island surrounded by water on 3 sides, the Atlantic, Mosquito Lagoon,and the Indian River Lagoon. That temp is almost always 2,3 or sometimes even 4 degrees warmer that here in Titusville proper on the mainland,yet that is what is attributed to the city of Titusville. I know that station is ALWAYS higher than the temps in my yard. One could find different temps, from many different sources in a fairly small area, if one wanted to debate the temp at a given location, if one wanted to!

As Walt said it all boils down to location,location,location!

Edited February 7, 2009 by gsn

[SubTropicRay]

Have I mentioned yet that the "Warm/Cold November" theory has proven true yet again?! The winter typically goes as November does and November was #@&%* cold last year.

[SubTropicRay]

I had to post these pictures my wife took on Wednesday afternoon. That's me atop the garage trying to figure out how to cover an Old Man Palm. When I look at this, I have to laugh at my insanity.

[SunnyFl]

Today was an eye-opener. Saw some very bad damage....

We were going down 30th Ave, west from 49th. As we passed the Disston Publix (for those unfamiliar with St. Pete, the Disston Ridge area has a nice high elevation - the ridge runs north thru East Lealman). And the now-very-large Adonidia groups across the road looked fine, no damage that I could see. But 30th Ave - a totally different story!

The road runs downhill, and when we got to lower part.... whew. There were fried Adonidias, badly toasted D. lutescens - and these had been there quite a long time, a small probably-dead spindle, scorched ixora, very damaged shefflera, and burnt selloum. The roebs, queens and rivs were fine, but anything more sensitive was in deep trouble.

We went down a couple of side streets and it was the same story. A few tropicals under canopy escaped serious damage, but basically it was a mess.

The only difference was elevation. The area was definitely a cold sink for the Disston Ridge area. But jeez, what a difference.

[junglegalfla]

Hey Ray, ask Miriam if I can rent you next cold snap. I'm afraid of heights and I can see you're not LOL. I tempted the gods and took down one side of the green house film on my screened room. I got sick of not being able to see outside from the house.

Sunny, that's not too far away from me, I'll have to take a drive and check out the carnage.

[SunnyFl]

Hey Ray, ask Miriam if I can rent you next cold snap. I'm afraid of heights and I can see you're not LOL. I tempted the gods and took down one side of the green house film on my screened room. I got sick of not being able to see outside from the house.

Sunny, that's not too far away from me, I'll have to take a drive and check out the carnage.

Bren, I hope your garden is all right and that you escaped any significant cold-damage. It's surprising how scattered the damage is.