Butia compacta

[freakypalmguy]

I finally saved up enough lunch money (I have not eaten in weeks) to take a trip to Multiflora to look at, and hopefully purchase a Butia capitata var. compacta. Bill, the owner, is a very nice guy and gave me a tour around his place. His has some nice specimens growing that were interesting to look at. Large Sabals, Livistonas, Braheas, Butias, and Phoenix as well as some nice Dypsis. Even a Hyophorbe verschaffeltii that was a little yellow from winter.

We finally got around to the area that I had come to see, the compactas. Here is what I saw as I walked up.

I immediately noticed a lot of variability in this plant, some more strict than others and also differences in color, from blue to green, just like a normal Butia capitata. I asked Bill what the story was behind these palms and where they came from. From what I remember, he said the seed was collected by his father from a group of Butia that he came across that were all normal except for one strict or compact plant.

Some of his plants that are in the ground have reached maturity and been producing seeds for years now, but have a very low germination rate. Most of the plants that produce an inflorescence end up dropping everything without producing a single seed. The trees that do end up producing seed, only a small amount develop, and an even smaller amount end up germinating. Those that do germinate, take an unusually long time says Bill.

Here are some closer shots of the individual plants. As you can see, some are more strict than others.

cont.

[freakypalmguy]

Bill was hoping to unload a few of the larger ones so he would not have to pot them up, so he tempted me with some great deals, but in the end, I really wanted the more strict variation so when I found the compacta that I ended up purchasing, I new it was the one. It had the bluest color and the most dwarf-like (no offense to Dwarfs intended). I almost got the feeling, he did not want to part with this one.

Here is the plant I purchased

Here it is in it's potential spot

Here it is in it's new home

Opposite angle

[kristof p]

nicel looking Butia!...i think it wil be very happy with it's new home ...

[plantapalm]

It looks like you picked a winner, Very Nice Choice!

[FRITO]

Matt, thanks for the hi res photos, those are some nice Butias! that compacta form is very appealing as well, your new palm looks perfect! I imagine it will grow much faster now that its in the ground!

nice score

[ricky]

nice looking palm matt and thank you for getting the back ground info on these palms i had four shipped to the uk a few years back but i was sold them as butia hybrids i still think they have a hint of jubaea about them thank you

ricky

[leyucca]

Such a nice Butia !

I have one (small) planted last year. Mine is very arched and completely green :

http://www.mexicana-garden.com/index.php?s...&espece=254

They seem to be very variable in several features...

Does someone know how high and large they can reach ?

I never have seen any pic showing a mature one in the ground ......

[Nigel]

Wow, only 2 or 3 times have I seen a Butia I like that, I myself had one before leaving the Uk but sold it.

Because the leaves are unusually short they seem to produce leaves at twice the normal rate and grow at enormous speed.

Architecturally it is a stunning palm.

A very VERY good buy.

If only this plant could be produced in large numbers it would be a big winner , but I think ones like this are freaks of nature.

[MAUSER]

Very nice, perfect. I never get tired of looking. I also thought about a hybrid.

Regards

[PalmGuyWC]

Wow Matt!

I'm impressed, and what a fast opperator you are to have it planted already. You made an excellent choice. I probably would have picked out the same one. I love silver. That's an interesting story behind these palms, probably the reason they are so expensive.

Yesterday I made an expensive purchase from Patrick Schafer. He came by and brought me a beautiful 15 gal. Jubaea and a 15 gal. Butia X Parajubaea. I bought them for a friend of mine who is about to install a palm garden in Concord. Actually I got a good deal because the palms are to large to ship by mail.

It was a "pay back" to my friend who has helped me in the garden, and he brought his pump over yesterday and we pumped out my pool, an all day process. He did most of the work while I slurped on vodka and got in the way. The pool was cleaned and this morning it had filled all night and was full of crystal clear water. We discovered the pool sweap was not working properly, so this morning I dropped about $600 on a new pool sweap and other pool equipment.

The hybrid that Patrick brought over looks a little different from the one I have growing here. It seems to have a heavier texture and looks more like a butia than mine, but it has no spines on the petioles and it's a good sized plant and ready to be planted. Patrick said it should double in size by the end of the summer once it's in the ground. The Jubaea is 9 years old and has a volly ball sized trunk, but nicely grown.

As usual, I drift off subject, but congrats on your new purchase Matt. It's worth it to go hungry for a few lunches.

Dick

[Alicehunter2000]

Interesting looking Butia.......I think you got the best of the bunch. Perfect spot to admire the form.

[Perito]

Nice Matt!

I've never seen one 'streched' like that growing upwards so quickly. What a score! Perry

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Matt, that is an awsome score and well worth some missed lunches. Looks like you got the pick of the litter, and the one I would have gone for. The third picture you posted is a very nice one too and a nice contrast to the strict form. Please post growth speed updates, in the future.

[ghar41]

Great Butia Matt! I'm interested in seeing it as it grows...and takes its mature shape. I planted an anemic looking "restrictor" leaf Butia last Spring,... I hope it eventually looks half as nice as yours.

[Kris]

Dear Matt

Simply fentastic,and you select your plants so perfectly... And if you had not told us what that palm was i would have thought it is a butiaXjubea,since the leaf pattern is very intreasting and hope even this variety of your's puts out a huge trunk in years to come..All the best !

thanks for the visuals...

love,

Kris

[freakypalmguy]

Thank you all for the compliments, I'm really excited about this palm.

I left out a really important detail that Bill told me about this Palm. He mentioned that the seed when mature, is yellow not orange and is smaller than normal Butia capitata. I did not think to ask about the actual shape, whether round or oblong.

Ricky and Kris, I can't help but look at it and see similarities to a jube as well. But I do believe it's just a mutation.

Leyucca, He had some that had been in the ground for a while and they were about half the size off a regular Butia of the same age.

Nigel, that's interesting what you say about the speed of growth, I would have never guessed that it will have a fast growth speed. I will keep watch on this one's growth and update here. Do you see any similarities to your recent discoveries. What about the seed color being yellow, does that match with any other Butia?

Dick, my wife and I had already picked out the spot for it. I wanted it in a prominent spot but could not figure out where. My wife said, "just yank out two of those hedge plants and that will make room". I did not hesitate to yank them out. She's really helpful that way and has a great eye.

That's interesting that the Butia X P. cocoides you bought looks more Butia like. That kind of validates my little plant a bit more maybe. If that is the case, I'll have to save up to buy another, as I really was hoping for more of the Parajubea look.

Great to hear you got that pool drained, I know you had mentioned it needed to be done in another thread. Don't discount your roll in the process, staying hydrated is an important task while supervising such a stressful undertaking

[Nigel]

The butia here has perfect yellow fruit, but thats not a guide, because the odoratas will have red,yellow and combinations of those 2 colours all together in one population. Colour of fruit seems to be very confusing amongst the odoratas.

[Mark Heath]

What a beautifull palm Matt!!!!! You lucky dog!!!!! I wish i had one!!! It's gonna skyrocket now that it has room to spread it's roots!!! Good score!!!!!!!!!!!

[freakypalmguy]

Interesting Nigel. I just received some odorata seeds from RPS. Hopefully I will get some to germinate.

Thank you Mark, I hope it does grow well.

[freakypalmguy]

Interesting Nigel. I just received some odorata seeds from RPS. Hopefully I will get some to germinate.

Thank you Mark, I hope it does grow well.

[Ilya]

Hello,

I have been lurking on this forum for years but your picture prompted me to join.

The story is that in the past I killed two butias and decided that they are not for the climate in Paris region.

Indeed I have not seen them even in the downtown that almost always 5C warmer than my garden. Butias with overhang cover survived for the couple of years and than were dead after prolonged freezes with nights around -10C. Four years ago I noticed in a local garden center several butias that were left in pots in the open yard without any protection. By March all were dead with the exception of one that was completely untouched. I bought it with the label Trachycarpus fortunei for 15 euros. It is in my garden for the third winter. I cover it against snow with overhang, no protection otherwise. This year we had three weeks without defreeze in daytimes, with one night at -13.5C. Here is a photo of this palm a week ago.

Do not you think that it is strikingly resembling your recent acquisition? I am also thinking that it is probably a descendant from some hybrid (Jubutia?).

Best regards,

Ilya

[freakypalmguy]

Hello Ilya and welcome,

That is a very beautifull Butia with great color. It appears to be doing very well for you. From what I can see from the picture, it appears to be a normal Butia capitata. I have heard of plants of the same species varying in cold hardiness before, so maybe that explains the health of yours. Are you growing any other palms at your home?

Again, welcome to Palm Talk,

Matt

[Ilya]

Hello Ilya and welcome,

That is a very beautifull Butia with great color. It appears to be doing very well for you. From what I can see from the picture, it appears to be a normal Butia capitata. I have heard of plants of the same species varying in cold hardiness before, so maybe that explains the health of yours. Are you growing any other palms at your home?

Again, welcome to Palm Talk,

Matt

Hello Matt,

Most of the capiata's here in commerce are very different from this one and are growing much faster. Before this winter I had 19 species, but now am not so sure. Even trachyes are affected, I probably lost Brachea armata, W.filifera needed a severe surgical operation. Among sabals Brazoria has been a good surprise, since it looks exceptionally fine (no protection)

I shall try to post some pictures in the future.

Regards,

Ilya

[freakypalmguy]

Hello Matt,

Most of the capiata's here in commerce are very different from this one and are growing much faster. Before this winter I had 19 species, but now am not so sure. Even trachyes are affected, I probably lost Brachea armata, W.filifera needed a severe surgical operation. Among sabals Brazoria has been a good surprise, since it looks exceptionally fine (no protection)

I shall try to post some pictures in the future.

Regards,

Ilya

Sorry to hear about your cold temperature damage, I hope everything recovers for you. We would all enjoy seeing pictures of what you are growing, so please do when you have a chance.

Your Butia could very well be different than capitata. There are many different variation of Butia so hopefully one of the Butia experts will chime in here about your palm as they might have more information about it. Maybe it is Butia eriospathe, I think I remember it being more cold hardy than capitata.

Take care,

Matt

[Alberto]

Look at this (BxJ)xB,offspring of Dick Douglas tree. It ´s the only greish from the five I have.Doesn´t it look somewhat to some of the palms above????

[Alberto]

Trunk detail

[PalmGuyWC]

Alberto,

Your (B X J) X B is twice the size of mine. Envy, envy! But I planted mine in one of the coldest parts of my garden and it's shaded most of the winter. I figgured with Jubaea in it would make it very cold hardy. Mine is mostly green with just a little gray color. I expect they will grow into a large palm. They seem to have very pronounced curved fronds.

Dick

[freakypalmguy]

Alberto,

Your palm does look very much like Ilya's palm above. Very nice looking.

[Axel Amsterdam]

I spotted this one recently around here. It seems very compact, could it be?

[PalmGuyWC]

Yesterday Patric Schafer and I visited Edith Bergstrom and she gave us a personal tour of her beautiful garden in Atherton where she has 4 Butia compactas, but more about that later. We had planned to visit the Overfelt park in San Jose on the way. It's a 30 acre park and has two ancient Jubaeas growing there. After reading some reviews on the park, it appears it's in a high crime area of San Jose and hardly anyone goes there as it's kind of hidden away. We decided to visit another time with a group.

Arriving a little early at Edith's we strolled along the front of the property admiring the view and the palms. Soon we were greeted by Edith and plunged into the garden. She has many unusual palms not often found in N. Calif., and she has many different kinds of Butias. The Butia compactas are very distinctive because of their small size and they are very symmetrical. The fronds are rather stiff and on an even plane, and as they are named, they are very compact. They are easy to identify.

Some of Edith's have bloomed but have never had any viable seeds. Apparently all the seeds come from one tree, and the few seeds produced are small and hard to germinate. Since only one nursery in S. Calif. has this palm available, I doubt if any have found their way to Europe. The nurseryman only sells good sized palms, not the seeds. It appears the palm is a mutant, probably from B. capitata, and not a distinct species.

Another Butia that caught our eye was one labeled B. bonnettii, but Patric said that is not a valid name but probably a form of B. capitata. It was green and had graceful arching fronds with soft foliage. It had a columner grow habit with not much of a spread, but was very beautiful and graceful.

Edith also has a nice collection of Braheas, including some good sized "Super Silver" and several B. Moorei's, and Brahea hybrids. You name it and Edith has just about every palm that will grow in N. Calif., and probably some that might not make it in her climate. There are several Ceroxylon, Chamaedoreas and Rhopalostylis growing in protected areas under large trees. On the way out of the garden we admired two of Patric's hybrids, Butia X Parajubaea, and a good sized Parajubaea TVT.

Dick

[daxin]

Yesterday Patric Schafer and I visited Edith Bergstrom and she gave us a personal tour of her beautiful garden in Atherton where she has 4 Butia compactas, but more about that later. We had planned to visit the Overfelt park in San Jose on the way. It's a 30 acre park and has two ancient Jubaeas growing there. After reading some reviews on the park, it appears it's in a high crime area of San Jose and hardly anyone goes there as it's kind of hidden away. We decided to visit another time with a group.

I have been to Overfelt Garden many times to visit the Chinese Cultural Park within and have not had any problem at all. It is reasonably well maintained considering that it is a free park. There is no grafitti or any signs of gang activities.

I have noticed the palm area and have told Darold about it during our last meeting in Mill Valley. I think it would be cool to expand this garden into another Palmatum. I'd love to join you guys if you come down to visit. Here are a few photos from my most recent visit in March.

[freakypalmguy]

I spotted this one recently around here. It seems very compact, could it be?

It does appear to have a compact form Axel, but hard to tell from the picture. From what I saw, they vary a lot. That is a very nice palm.

[freakypalmguy]

Yesterday Patric Schafer and I visited Edith Bergstrom and she gave us a personal tour of her beautiful garden in Atherton where she has 4 Butia compactas, but more about that later.

Dick

Dick,

Sound like a great time, Edith's garden is one that I would really like to see someday. How far is she from you place?

Matt

[PalmGuyWC]

Hi Daxin,

Thanks for the pictures of the Overfelt Park. There is quite a story behind the park. The Overfelts started a grain and dairy farm there in the 1860's and were early pioneers in that area. The park was donated by Mildred Overfelt, a daughter in 1959.

The park sure looks palmy, and I'm told there might be a Butia X Jubaea growing there in addition to a couple of Jubaeas.

Matt,

The Bergstrom's live quite a distance from me. We had light traffic and it took about an hour and fifteen minutes to get there. Going west on the Dumbarten Bridge it's almost a straight shot west, and another 15 minutes from the bridge. Atherton is a strange place of huge properties, trees and mansions, and no City. It is all residental. I don't know where the residents shop.

Dick

[Brad Mondel]

I think I hit the jackpot!

[Brad Mondel]

[Brad Mondel]

Could it have Jubaea in its blood? 

[freakypalmguy]

Here an updated picture of this palm, it’s been suffering from a possible boron deficiency, I’ve treated once about 3 months ago, and I’ll treat it again soon, don’t want to overdo it.

[Looking Glass]

2 minutes ago, freakypalmguy said:

Here an updated picture of this palm, it’s been suffering from a possible boron deficiency, I’ve treated once about 3 months ago, and I’ll treat it again soon, don’t want to overdo it.

Cool Palm!   Love it.  Could it be a little light on potassium too?  

[freakypalmguy]

9 minutes ago, Looking Glass said:

Cool Palm!   Love it.  Could it be a little light on potassium too?  

Thank you looking glass, I put some Lutz fertilizer spikes around it a couple months ago as well, I’m trying to give it some time to see if it pulls out of it before I try anything else. Lutz sells some potassium deficiency spikes as well so I’ll put that on the list to try if it doesn’t recover soon.