Anyone into Pindo Palms?

[OverGrown]

I'm still not sure if I should add this one yet (planted) since space is limited. How will pindo's do as a container palm?

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

Hi, "OverGrown!" I love the PIndo, or Jelly (Butia capitata) palms! They are very ornamental; are not armed with fronds' spines; have a slow growth habit; don't need too much fertilizing, and are super hardy (to +10-14 F.).

I grew one in a container when I lived in Mobile, Alabama and had it on the patio for four years and it seemed quite happy! I, then, gave it to my neighbours when I moved to South Florida (as the Butia c. doesn't particularly like South Florida's too non-changing warm, sticky climate.)

From what I hear (and have seen periodically), it's still in the same 30-gal. clay container; has growth about two & a half feet since I gave it to them seventeen years ago, and still looks "happy."

Is it good for a planter? I think "yes" from my own experience. Maybe others here too have supportive comments (or can give not so positive accounts.) I give it a thumbs up! Let's see if others here do, too!

Pablo Pindo

[sonoranfans]

I'm still not sure if I should add this one yet (planted) since space is limited. How will pindo's do as a container palm?

Butias are reputed to be one of the better container palms. I have several in the ground and they are quite robust and, IMO, beautiful. In areas of limited space the butia will interfere with walking paths as they grow to 10' wide and stay low to the ground for a long time. As a container palm, they will never grow to the stature of a "free one", but they still will take up some width. There is a beautiful compact form that is called "butia compacta", that one would be a very nice container palm(it grows smaller) and is sometimes a gorgeous blue color. There is a recent thread on that form here. A warning about butias, they like at least part day sun and dont do so well in shade. With your climate and all the choices you have, I would advise you to continue to investigate your possibilities before acquiring more palms. If you can grow kings, there are some clumping dypsis that would be a nice complement, they dont take up much space, and a number of species do well shade or containers.

Edited March 26, 2009 by sonoranfans

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

I'm still not sure if I should add this one yet (planted) since space is limited. How will pindo's do as a container palm?

Butias are reputed to be one of the better container palms. I have several in the ground and they are quite robust and, IMO, beautiful. In areas of limited space the butia will interfere with walking paths as they grow to 10' wide and stay low to the ground for a long time. As a container palm, they will never grow to the stature of a "free one", but they still will take up some width. There is a beautiful compact form that is called "butia compacta", that one would be a very nice container palm(it grows smaller) and is sometimes a gorgeous blue color. There is a recent thread on that form here. A warning about butias, they like at least part day sun and dont do so well in shade. With your climate and all the choices you have, I would advise you to continue to investigate your possibilities before acquiring more palms. If you can grow kings, there are some clumping dypsis that would be a nice complement, they dont take up much space, and a number of species do well shade or containers.

Was I right, Tom, that Butias do lousy (as a rule) in Miami because of our high humidity, and lack of a period of sufficient cooling in our climatological year? Certainly Mobile, AL isn't dry in summer but it IS comfortable after Nov. 1st and the Pindos look pretty healthy there, save for the occasional hurricane! E-gads!

Paul

[Kris]

Dear Paul

Any suggestions on how this pindo or butia clang would do in our hot wet chennai climate..? or for that matter butia X jubia or other butias which can handle high coastal humidity.

thanks & Love,

Kris

[sonoranfans]

I'm still not sure if I should add this one yet (planted) since space is limited. How will pindo's do as a container palm?

Butias are reputed to be one of the better container palms. I have several in the ground and they are quite robust and, IMO, beautiful. In areas of limited space the butia will interfere with walking paths as they grow to 10' wide and stay low to the ground for a long time. As a container palm, they will never grow to the stature of a "free one", but they still will take up some width. There is a beautiful compact form that is called "butia compacta", that one would be a very nice container palm(it grows smaller) and is sometimes a gorgeous blue color. There is a recent thread on that form here. A warning about butias, they like at least part day sun and dont do so well in shade. With your climate and all the choices you have, I would advise you to continue to investigate your possibilities before acquiring more palms. If you can grow kings, there are some clumping dypsis that would be a nice complement, they dont take up much space, and a number of species do well shade or containers.

Was I right, Tom, that Butias do lousy (as a rule) in Miami because of our high humidity, and lack of a period of sufficient cooling in our climatological year? Certainly Mobile, AL isn't dry in summer but it IS comfortable after Nov. 1st and the Pindos look pretty healthy there, save for the occasional hurricane! E-gads!

Paul

I have only read about butias in humid climates , since my climate is so dry. They are from the dry grasslands of south america, but supposedly adapt well to humidity as many magnificient specimens grow in the southeast. I do know that they hate wet feet/poor drainage, and will be sickly in that scenario. they adapt well to my desert, but really dont like the hottest heat, they slow down in growth and may look a bit pale at that time. Perhaps they dont like the south florida heat/with the humidity. They do like cool weather and are my fastest palms in speer production in the 3-4 coolest months of the year. I love the jubaea/butia hybrids, magnificent palms, and they grow well in northern florida apparently.

Edited March 26, 2009 by sonoranfans

[Zayin]

I bought two Butia Capitata's as five gallon containers in 2003 and have had them containerized since, as Butias need SERIOUS protection in the ground where I live, but they look great, and have put on a lot of growth, I have had them in an unheated greenhouse over winter with temps dropping to about -4 periodically, they come through the winter with no problems and for a northern climate, they are a great palm to have!

[redant]

I have grown these in Jupiter for over 12 years with no problems at all. Pretty slow growing but they always look great.

[John Case]

Slow growing and should do well in a pot.

However, the fruit and seed may not be produced in that environment.

I have partaken in many fruits over time and I find them quite tasty, at least from the tree that I get them. Hints of apple, a bit tart and sometimes eating one that is not quite ripe might be a bit chewy.

Common usage down south is making jelly from the fruit, hence the name 'Jelly Palm'.

[_Keith]

Here in So. Louisiana we are about as humid as it gets and Butia grow here with great vigor. What we do have, that So. Florida does not have is a bit of a winter, albeit a cool wet winter. We also have heavy clay soils. I have never seen one here in a container as they do grow at a fairly good rate here and get quite large. They do seem to thrive in our blistering summer heat too, but with the heavy clay soils they do not suffer for moisture the same as they would in sand. These are my casual observations.

Oh, and this is one of my favorite palms, as you might notice from my avatar.

[edric]

They do however, have very sharp spines, and like already mentioned, they grow very very slow, so if you put one in your yard, be forewarned, I have had blood running down my forehead more than once, mowing the lawn, thinking I was ducking low enough, and soon found out very differently, the fruit is very good, and hi in vitamin C, My one tree 15 years old from seed, yields six to eight hundred seeds a year, all ripen very fast, try eating 800 pieces of fruit in five weeks, they don't keep in the fridge, and the only easy way to clean the seeds for sale or cultivation, is to eat the fruit, Ed

[PalmGuyWC]

As mentioned, Butias are a pain to mow around if they are in a lawn area. The fronds tend to arch and the tip of the fronds touch the ground in their younger years. They seem to thrive in my adobe clay and are well suited for my chilly winters and hot summers.

They do best in the ground and once a container is filled with roots, they don't increase is size very much, and if left in the container for to long they become stunted. For hardy container palms I've found Serenoa and Chamaerops to look very nice for many years.

Dick

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

Dear Paul

Any suggestions on how this pindo or butia clang would do in our hot wet chennai climate..? or for that matter butia X jubia or other butias which can handle high coastal humidity.

thanks & Love,

Kris

Hi, Kris:

For the Butia, even hybrids in your area, I think that it would be similar in outlook to where I currently live; probably not as good as in more temperate zones.

I would utilise "tried and true" palms that are already satisfying. Sometimes, I too, have to stay away from palms (and other things that are pleasing) because I know the environment and/or common convention, tell my brain "no."

I think that you are in accord with this decision-making process, even though the spirit says, "why not?"

Do indeed, have a very rewarding day today, Kris!

In brotherhood,

Paul

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

Here in So. Louisiana we are about as humid as it gets and Butia grow here with great vigor. What we do have, that So. Florida does not have is a bit of a winter, albeit a cool wet winter. We also have heavy clay soils. I have never seen one here in a container as they do grow at a fairly good rate here and get quite large. They do seem to thrive in our blistering summer heat too, but with the heavy clay soils they do not suffer for moisture the same as they would in sand. These are my casual observations.

Oh, and this is one of my favorite palms, as you might notice from my avatar.

Must be the lousy drainage, then, here Keith.

Just an snapshot sort of FYI: We're not in sand, in the western sections of the SE Florida suburbs, anywhere west of Fla. SR 817 or University Drive in Broward County or west of SW 42 Ave Le Jeune Road, in Dade County; we're in compacted (steamrolled!) crushed and non-porous limestone rock (a minimum 7 feet of it steamrolled until it forms a solid, unitized white concrete mass that is above the flood zone of the Everglades, for home insurance purposes.) After the seven feet are properly compacted a one inch layer on black muck soil is flattened with the staemroller so that a layer of sod can be laid on top. Plants are then inserted by making a hole with a augering tool (like a fence post drill.) The percolation of the soil is zero. Standing water needs to evaporate after a rain, so water just sits on the roots of anything until the sun dries it! Roots rot out of plants that cannot take inundation for day after day.

Redant: I think that Jupiter IS in sand, but in southern & central suburban western Palm Beach County (excluding the farm districts of the far west) of Boca Raton to Boynton Beach, west of Fla. SR 7/U.S. 441 it is also on solid compacted rock, as is western Miami-Dade and Broward County.

About sixty pindos died, one by one that my city planted on a center highway median that is about 14 feet wide. They replanted with Hyophorbes and they're doing fine! That median was often under water for hours at a time from June through late October. Too much water! We've solved Keith's retort/comment in which I had no clue as to why Pindos failed profoundly miserably en masse here every time, until they all died within a three year period. Dead roots; that'll do it every time, eh?

[Kris]

Hi, Kris:

For the Butia, even hybrids in your area, I think that it would be similar in outlook to where I currently live; probably not as good as in more temperate zones.

I would utilise "tried and true" palms that are already satisfying. Sometimes, I too, have to stay away from palms (and other things that are pleasing) because I know the environment and/or common convention, tell my brain "no."

I think that you are in accord with this decision-making process, even though the spirit says, "why not?"

Do indeed, have a very rewarding day today, Kris!

In brotherhood,

Paul

Thanks very much for the explaination...

Lots of love to you,

Kris

[GREENHAND]

Pindos do pretty good here in North Texas here are a couple that are growing at my lake place , an hour and a half drive south of Dallas.

[CromulentKevin]

I think they're a great palm for harsh climates such as mine. I couldn't imagine potting one, however, since they can get so huge. Mine is barely forming a trunk and it has already eaten my front lawn. Though I think part of the size of mine probably has to do with that it is somewhat stretched from the shade of palms above it, but I actually like it this way because it looks more gianormous.

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

Hi, Kris:

For the Butia, even hybrids in your area, I think that it would be similar in outlook to where I currently live; probably not as good as in more temperate zones.

I would utilise "tried and true" palms that are already satisfying. Sometimes, I too, have to stay away from palms (and other things that are pleasing) because I know the environment and/or common convention, tell my brain "no."

I think that you are in accord with this decision-making process, even though the spirit says, "why not?"

Do indeed, have a very rewarding day today, Kris!

In brotherhood,

Paul

Thanks very much for the explaination...

Lots of love to you,

Kris

I don't know, Kris:

The more I am reading these ensiung posts, the more I seem to be dealing with a soil issue (that Butias won't tolerate) vs. a weather issue. Maybe you would do well with one afterall. Keith is right, Louisiana, USA is certainly as hot & humid as where I live (perhaps even more so!) and they perform extremely well in his region, so now I think my detrimental conditions were a lack of drainage issue.

He is very knowledgeable and is extremely well aware of the palms' successes in a subtropical climate.

My warmest regards,

Paul

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

I think they're a great palm for harsh climates such as mine. I couldn't imagine potting one, however, since they can get so huge. Mine is barely forming a trunk and it has already eaten my front lawn. Though I think part of the size of mine probably has to do with that it is somewhat stretched from the shade of palms above it, but I actually like it this way because it looks more gianormous.

Re: containerization: When the Butias' roots are container confined, the palm basically stops much frond growth. The secret is to purchase one that is small and go with a container size that is no more than only two sizes larger.

Paul

[ErikSJI]

I think they're a great palm for harsh climates such as mine. I couldn't imagine potting one, however, since they can get so huge. Mine is barely forming a trunk and it has already eaten my front lawn. Though I think part of the size of mine probably has to do with that it is somewhat stretched from the shade of palms above it, but I actually like it this way because it looks more gianormous.

Re: containerization: When the Butias' roots are container confined, the palm basically stops much frond growth. The secret is to purchase one that is small and go with a container size that is no more than only two sizes larger.

Paul

Here are some photos of our Butia's.

[iamjv]

I enjoy butias as well but they just don't do well here in San Antonio due to our soils... the fronds yellow and it takes a lot of work to get them green and keep them that way. In fact, a couple of weeks ago I pulled out two of them from the yard, one that had been growing there for 10 yrs but I had been fighting it for the last 5 yrs trying to keep it green. For the last two years it never really greened up at all. I finally decided life is to short and there are other palms... . Jv

[_Keith]

I enjoy butias as well but they just don't do well here in San Antonio due to our soils... the fronds yellow and it takes a lot of work to get them green and keep them that way. In fact, a couple of weeks ago I pulled out two of them from the yard, one that had been growing there for 10 yrs but I had been fighting it for the last 5 yrs trying to keep it green. For the last two years it never really greened up at all. I finally decided life is to short and there are other palms... . Jv

JV, do you know exactly what it is about your soils that it does not like?

[iamjv]

Keith in my case it was a lack of iron.... while they are young it's easier to keep them green by giving them iron three times a yr but as they get bigger it's more and more difficult. Jv

[_Keith]

JV, any update? My big Pindo is fine, but I almost lost a smaller one. It is still on the edge.

[Moose]

I enjoy butias as well but they just don't do well here in San Antonio due to our soils... the fronds yellow and it takes a lot of work to get them green and keep them that way. In fact, a couple of weeks ago I pulled out two of them from the yard, one that had been growing there for 10 yrs but I had been fighting it for the last 5 yrs trying to keep it green. For the last two years it never really greened up at all. I finally decided life is to short and there are other palms... . Jv

Have you tried Sequestrian 138? Its an expensive Foilage/root drench soluble chelated product that is very effective

[_Keith]

I just picked up some Actinovate. Very popular fungicide in Tomato Gardener circles.

[Moose]

Keith - how much does that Atinovate run $$$ ? Is it a foliar applicable product ?

[_Keith]

Ain't cheap, $24 bucks for a 2 ozs, but it says it treats 550 plants. Now I assume that is tomato size plants. Just got it yesterday, put on here hoping someone else might have more experience with the product.

[monkeyranch]

There is also Actino-Iron from the same manufacturer as Actinovate. It has the same natural fungicide, Streptomyces lydicus bacterium found in Actinovate but with the addition of humic acid and iron. It's less expensive ($30/10#, $95/50#) and better suited for preventative applications and when iron is called for to green things up. I save the more concentrated and expensive Actinovate for when disease is present and infection likely.

[DoomsDave]

Good luck with your pindos. We here in the land of La La tend to take them too much for granted.

[Flow]

Hey all

I just wanted to show you this picture of a magnificent Butia growing in Brissago (Switzerland). I think Butias are awesome and very beautiful palms. They grow well south of the alps where the lowest temperature is about -10C but rarely falls that low. North of the alps they don't survive without protection.

Regards

Flo

[Danilopez89]

Pindo or Cactus?

It acts more like a cactus than a palm for me.

[Brad Mondel]

Butia is my favorite Palm species. They will grow well In a container for you and are generally care free for the most part. Fronds live long and do not need to be trimmed often, they grow in sun or shade, take drought, humidity, and cold easily.

[Sabal Steve]

I planted two Bismarckias. If I could do it again, one would be a Butia. Most likely yatay.

[Dave-Vero]

Heathcote Botanical Gardens in Ft Pierce has a healthy pindo in an area without irrigation. There's Sabal palmetto, Livistona decora and Acoelorrhaphe wrightii (Everglades palm) at the same spot.