"Sabal tamaulipas"

[tjwalters]

What's the story on this palm? Supposedly larger than your average S. minor, and the fruits certainly appear to be larger. How cold-hardy is this guy? Any thoughts/discussions on whether this may be a separate species? I'd love to try one of these here in 7a.

[JLeVert]

What's the story on this palm? Supposedly larger than your average S. minor, and the fruits certainly appear to be larger. How cold-hardy is this guy? Any thoughts/discussions on whether this may be a separate species? I'd love to try one of these here in 7a.

I just posted a picture down below, but here is another one:

I got the original seed from Carl Schoenfeld from Yucca Do Nursery in Texas. The seed are huge, like the size of Sabal pumos seed. The leaves are more casual than the usual S. minor, the palm blooms for me about 4 weeks before the other S. minors and the trunk creeps. I think that Carl told me that the seed was collected at about 3,500' in Tamaulipas State in NE Mexico in mixed oak/pine forest. I am told that it is just another ecotype of S. minor, but it is certainly different horticulturally, even if there isn't any significant genetic difference.

[iamjv]

I have two small Sabal T's that I got from Yucca Do a few yrs back. They are very slow in my drier-shallow soils than there native area. Yet they do seem to be hardy. Mine has seen 21F without any damage at all. They are suppose to be as hardy as the normal minors. The species at Yucca Do are spectacular and clearly larger than your normal minor. Jv

[tjwalters]

Thanks. Joseph - your post is what prompted my question. I might have to try hunting down a reasonably-sized specimen to add to garden. They make my minors look like micros.

[PalmGuyWC]

That sure is a nice looking Sabal. Usually S. minor has a split down the center of the fronds and they have a flat frond, not costapalmate. The seeds on my S. minors are very small.

Dick

[sonoranfans]

These are beautiful sabals, , I am very interested in getting some of these. I found a pic from a socal seller on ebay that seems to have a really grey green color. Not sure if these colors are actually representative. Check these photos out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sabal-tamaulipas-RARE-...091510010r10565

Edited April 17, 2009 by sonoranfans

[millic]

Yuuca Do has a good article about Sabal Tamaulipas and the history behind them. I believe they also have a few of them for sale still.

http://www.yuccado.com/articles/sabal_search.htm

For anyone in the area Peckerwood Gardens has an open day this weekend where you can go and see them for yourself. This is the former location of Yucca Do before they moved this summer.

http://www.peckerwoodgarden.com/explore/visit.htm

[Kris]

Gentlemen Nice Topic..

I have few of these sent to be by brother M@x,those seeds are indeed big on par with sabal river side,since i have germinated even those sometime back.But what is very stricking here is that its leaf is very blueish.Since they are yet to open its leaves.once they are little big i will post repotting work under palm maintanence work !

I have observed that like all sabal saplings it takes full sunlight just staying for a week indoors...iam very surprised.you can see at present what temperatures we are expereiencing through the weather report seen in my signature.

Thanks for those beautiful stills..

Lots of love,

Kris

[Explorer]

And are they realy faster growing? And I wander if they would grow well in N.W. Europe. Sabal minor is hardy here but VERY SLOW!

Alexander

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

And are they realy faster growing? And I wander if they would grow well in N.W. Europe. Sabal minor is hardy here but VERY SLOW!

Alexander

This is a slow grower, you will get the same results as with sabal minor, Sabal tamaulipas requires a lot of heat to grow fast.

[buffy]

Slowish. About the same as S. minor. Distinctive though.

[Explorer]

And are they realy faster growing? And I wander if they would grow well in N.W. Europe. Sabal minor is hardy here but VERY SLOW!

Alexander

This is a slow grower, you will get the same results as with sabal minor, Sabal tamaulipas requires a lot of heat to grow fast.

Thanks for the info. Then I do not have to bother with this palm. Only things wich will grow well here up north I bother with.

Alexander

[buffy]

I wanted to bring this old thread up again. My Sabal 'Tamaulipas' is mature and fruiting now. I know people keep saying it's a Sabal minor, but I don't get that statement. Bigger seeds. Wider pinnae (leaflet). Seem to just look more tropical. 

[PalmatierMeg]

Photos?

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

13 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Photos?

Were you the one saying everyone should try this palm for dwarf sabals ? 

[buffy]

yep

[PalmatierMeg]

2 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Were you the one saying everyone should try this palm for dwarf sabals ? 

No. It's not one I'm familiar with.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

20 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

No. It's not one I'm familiar with.

Then it was

 

2 hours ago, buffy said:

yep

Haha sorry for the mix up too many sabal threads I have been reading

[Cikas]

4 hours ago, buffy said:

I wanted to bring this old thread up again. My Sabal 'Tamaulipas' is mature and fruiting now. I know people keep saying it's a Sabal minor, but I don't get that statement. Bigger seeds. Wider pinnae (leaflet). Seem to just look more tropical. 

Do you have some photos? 

[PalmatierMeg]

I tried S. uresana once. It lingered for a couple years then died. I'm concerned my very humid climate was too harsh for it. I also lost a trunking xbrazoria last year. So I'm passing on arid climate Sabals like rosei, pumos, mexicana & Tamaulipas. I did get a Sabal minor 'Welfare' (named for the TX ghost town where it was discovered) last year from PDN - a one-time offering it seems, so who knows when or if it will ever be offered again. A Sabal named after a ghost town - who could resist? So far, it is doing well. I'm still hunting for the uber Sabal minor Castor Dwarf from LA, which was offered once 15 years ago.

Never stop reading or researching.

[Xenon]

10 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I tried S. uresana once. It lingered for a couple years then died. I'm concerned my very humid climate was too harsh for it. I also lost a trunking xbrazoria last year. So I'm passing on arid climate Sabals like rosei, pumos, mexicana & Tamaulipas. I did get a Sabal minor 'Welfare' (named for the TX ghost town where it was discovered) last year from PDN - a one-time offering it seems, so who knows when or if it will ever be offered again. A Sabal named after a ghost town - who could resist? So far, it is doing well. I'm still hunting for the uber Sabal minor Castor Dwarf from LA, which was offered once 15 years ago.

Never stop reading or researching.

S. mexicana is not an arid climate Sabal. I've seen it in habitat growing near river banks 20-30 miles from the Gulf in deep south Texas (25*N). Very hot and humid. It also ranges further south into the Mexican tropics. 

There is a nice S. uresana at Kopsick in St. Pete. They also grow well in Houston. 

[Steve in Florida]

Meg, I have friends with mature and seeding Sabal rosei in Annistion, Alabama and Midville and Augusta, GA.  Might be worth giving it a try.

[sonoranfans]

I have had no issues at all with S Uresana, its bulletproof for me.  It gets plenty humid and hot here(20 mile east of st pete).  

[djcary]

Here's my Tamaulipas on the right, a palmetto 'Mocksville' on the left. I got them both from PDN back in the fall of 2017. Based on what I've observed so far, I'm inclined to believe that it'll match PDN's description of it: "Sabal sp. Tamaulipas is a Sabal minor on steroids growing three times as fast, having much larger leaves, and much larger seed." It might not be a fair comparison, since I don't know the exact age of the two, but I'm assuming they're of a similar age. Since I've had them, I've kept them in matching pot sizes and used the same potting mix.

As for cold hardiness, I've taken them inside when it gets below the mid 20s since they're in pots, so I can't say. Though, PDN lists Tamaulipas as 7b at least.

 

 

 

[buffy]

Tamaulipas didn't show a spec of damage at 8F. 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 9:52 AM, buffy said:

I wanted to bring this old thread up again. My Sabal 'Tamaulipas' is mature and fruiting now. I know people keep saying it's a Sabal minor, but I don't get that statement. Bigger seeds. Wider pinnae (leaflet). Seem to just look more tropical. 

 

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 10:30 AM, PalmatierMeg said:

Photos?

 

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 2:02 PM, Cikas said:

Do you have some photos? 

?

[buffy]

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

How long have you had in the ground now ? 

[buffy]

Maybe 8 years.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

Whoa from seedling im guessing? Looks like a lot of filtered light =) very green specimens 

[Nj Palms]

Would love to try one here and test their true hardiness. Would be cool to hybridize one with a “mccurtain”.

[buffy]

I'd try it as is. I have not heard of anybody with damage to one of these.

[amh]

On 5/28/2019 at 4:58 PM, buffy said:

That is a great looking palm, how often does it fruit?

[buffy]

Yearly. Just like S. minor. It has a more tropical feel than minor.

[amh]

On 1/3/2021 at 7:47 AM, buffy said:

Yearly. Just like S. minor. It has a more tropical feel than minor.

I've read reports that the S. tamaulipas didn't reliably fruit in the past, but I think the observations were on the east coast.

[Xenon]

This study suggests that Sabal minor from Nuevo León (neighboring state to Tamaulipas) is introgressed (has genetic input from) with Sabal mexicana:

"However, the Mexican sample of S. minor (#11) does show evidence of introgression with S. mexicana. This is best illustrated in the UPGMA tree by the sample’s intermediate position between S. mexicana and the remainder of S. minor (Figure 1), as well as its prominent partial membership in the S. mexicana genotypic group in the STRUCTURE results for two to four genotypic groups (Figure 3)."

"Other similar populations of S. minor occur nearby in the state of Tamaulipas, known among palm enthusiasts and within the horticultural trade as “Sabal sp. Tamaulipas” or “Sabal Tamaulipas”, although these plants are reported to be more robust than typical S. minor. Whether these Sabal plants from the central Sierra Madre Oriental of northeastern Mexico are truly S. minor, introgressed S. minor, or an undescribed species, remains an issue for debate and further research"

A preliminary evaluation of the ancestry of a putative Sabal hybrid (Arecaceae: Coryphoideae), and the description of a new nothospecies, Sabal × brazoriensis (open access pdf)

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Xenon

[ahosey01]

Anybody got any input on where to find some of these?

This is a cool species.

[amh]

1 hour ago, ahosey01 said:

Anybody got any input on where to find some of these?

This is a cool species.

I haven't seen plants or seed for sale in recent memory.

[Jubaea_James760]

Plantdelights.com

[Jubaea_James760]

I got my 2 from them this year.