Ravenea albicans

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck]

Sorry all , just gets  me frustrated when all I want to do is give the right info, I do not want you to be mislead  or confused by others, esp when we have a passion.  Here's a little more . For those of you who don't know Michael D Ferrero, He's located at.                  Nong Nooch Tropical Garden, He's the Curator of palms and flowering trees, What a job....Wow .Michaels  from Cairns {Mossman} Excellent Guy....

[LJG]

(Matt in SD @ Jan. 25 2007,17:10)

QUOTE

Jerry, you have R albicans listed at your nursery and I remember you telling me that you didn't think they were really R albicans (a year or two ago) because the first leaf did not have the silver underside.  But then someone I know was at your nursery recently and said they saw your plants and claimed they did have the sliver undersides now.  So what's your take now on your current batch of plants?  Clayton said above that they do not always get the white on the first leaf.

Matt

Just there today hoping to grab some . Dan says he does not think they are Albicans. I saw no white underside. Still very small.

[jdapalms]

What we have listed as Ravenea albicans at our nursery looks to me more like Ravenea louvelii and as Clayton mentions they are also slow to grow. The seedlings we have are about a year old. We purchased them as R albicans just so everyone knows how things can get messed up.

Len, Dan told me that you purchased that large Ravenea manopana. This is an interesting Ravenea that may not be officialy named. It is possiible that we may not see seed of some of these unusual Ravenea's offered again. I have planted a few here in Hawaii. This Ravenea has seen some cold and doesn't seem to mind.

Jerry

[Matt in SD]

Just remembered someone asked what "remote germinator" meant a few posts back and I don't think anyone answered.  Remote germination is when the radicle (the thing that emerges from the seed) travels for some distance before splitting with the root going down and the leaf spear going up (in some palms the radicle can go 12" or more before sending up the leaf spike).  In the close up photo I posted you can see the seed and a greenish white tubular thing coming out and heading down into the soil (this is the radicle).  The leaf emerges from a point on the radicle below the soil level.  In the other type of germination, the point of this split is basically right where the radicle emerges from the seed (i.e. it doesn't travel at all).    

Thanks for the update on Jerry's plants LJG.  I'm surprised more people didn't buy these from RPS in the last offering since they are so rarely available.

Matt

[LJG]

(jdapalms @ Jan. 25 2007,22:46)

QUOTE

What we have listed as Ravenea albicans at our nursery looks to me more like Ravenea louvelii and as Clayton mentions they are also slow to grow. The seedlings we have are about a year old. We purchased them as R albicans just so everyone knows how things can get messed up.

Len, Dan told me that you purchased that large Ravenea manopana. This is an interesting Ravenea that may not be officialy named. It is possiible that we may not see seed of some of these unusual Ravenea's offered again. I have planted a few here in Hawaii. This Ravenea has seen some cold and doesn't seem to mind.

Jerry

I wish I would have known that. I would have bought them as Ravenea louvelii is another great palm and a tough one to track down.

Yes, I did buy the large Ravenea Sp. manopana. It is a great looking Ravenea and looks like it will be a monster! Now if you can just remember where your large Ravenea sambiranensis is so I can get it too.   ::

[Gtlevine]

Ravenea Monopana is very nice, I got a nice large one from JDAndersen and it has performed well. It took the cold this winter without any problems.

GAry

[Moose]

I got some Ravenea albicans from RPS a couple months ago. From what I've heard, what is sold as Ravenea albicans is often not the real deal. Well one has germinated and now I'm getting interested...The seed is an odd shape, flat on one side sort of like a hemishphere with a diamter of 15-20mm. And now I know that it is a remote germinator, the radicle went about 2 cm then germinated and I have a spike going up and a fat root going down. Since Palms of Madagascar doesn't have a description of R albicans seed, there's no way to know, but so far the only thing even similar is R louvellii which is closely related to R albicans.

Has anyone else gotten seed from this latest RPS batch? Anyone germinated the real R albicans before? I know that I'm just a couple months at most away from knowing for sure (it should be a bifid leaf with white undersides according to POM which is unique), but I'm sort of impatient.

And finally, anyone in SoCal or similar climate tried to grow this one before?

Matt

Matt - did any of them survive ?

[Moose]

Yes, I got some R albicans from that batch. From 12 seeds I've had 7 germinate and they're growing vigouriously. I should pot them up individually-note to self pot them up. I bought some albicans about 3 yrs ago and they turned out to be something more like louvelii, ie pinnate emergent leaf and no white underneath. That batch were very slow germinators, and growers and unfortunately died of root rot problems after about 2 yrs. I think my greenhouse skills have improved a bit since then. The way to tell if albicans, is the bifid leaf and white undersides, and as mine haven't opened the first leaf I don't know what they really are yet. R louvellii has a similar seed to what I have now, I think they have 2 or 3 seed per fruit therefore the flat sides. This batch of seed are considerably larger than the last. R lakatra has a similar but smaller looking seed to this one as well.

Happy growing

regards

Tyrone

Tyrone - any update ? What did they end up looking like, true Ravenea albicans ?

[Moose]

(Jeff Searle @ Jan. 24 2007,07:37)

QUOTE

(Utopia Palms @ Jan. 24 2007,06:59)

QUOTE

Hi Jeff, I think you will find that your ones are from seed I sent you in 1997. I would have a guess that Jerry’s one is around the same age as your ones, as this was some of the first seed on the market...

Jerry may I ask how old is your R.albicans?

Clayton.

Clayton,

I'm pretty sure my two plants are much older than from "97". I believe I bought these two plants from J. Marcus earlier. I will check latter. I think they are one of the slowest palms in cultivation for me.

Jeff

Clayton,

I just went out to look at my one plant here in the nursery(the other is planted at my yard) to have a look at the original tag in the pot. I was correct when I said, these plants are older than the "97" seed. My 2 plants are from 1993 and came in under the name Ravenea sp. Raomaltra. This makes them 13 years old now. So, I'll bet that Jerry's plant is from the same batch of seed. And his plant has grown much more than mine. ( All that Hawaii rain). I have no record on the tag from where the seed came from, or how many seed came in. I want to say, that I probably bought these as very small seedlings and not grown from seed, but I can't be 100% sure.

Jeff

[LJG]

Moose, all these from that seed run turned out to be Louvelii as a best guess. Certainly not Albicans. Five years ago I bought an Albicans from Ron Lawyer. It had the silver backed leaflets and most likely came from the same seed batch as Marcus ones. Of course growing in pots in SoCal the thing was only 12 inches tall. That plant was IDed as the newly described Ravenae hypoleuca by Drainsfeld:

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Ravenea_hypoleuca

It can be reasoned the true Albicans might not be in any collection. Did anyone see it while at Nong Nooch?

[Matt in SD]

As Len said, the last several seed batches of "R albicans" were definitely not albicans. I have a palm that I purchased as R louvellii (from Jungle Music) and a plant grown from the RPS "R albicans" seed from that time period and they are different. I would bet one is atcually louvellii, but hard to say which. I'll try to get some photos. Both are slow.

Matt

[Mandrew968]

Moose, all these from that seed run turned out to be Louvelii as a best guess. Certainly not Albicans. Five years ago I bought an Albicans from Ron Lawyer. It had the silver backed leaflets and most likely came from the same seed batch as Marcus ones. Of course growing in pots in SoCal the thing was only 12 inches tall. That plant was IDed as the newly described Ravenae hypoleuca by Drainsfeld:

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Ravenea_hypoleuca

It can be reasoned the true Albicans might not be in any collection. Did anyone see it while at Nong Nooch?

So not Even Jeff Marcus has the real albicans? Another question: Albicans is not the same as the new palm, hypoleuca? Thanks guys--interesting topic...

[Moose]

what is meant by remote germinating?

http://w3.biosci.utexas.edu/prc/Sabal/saxophone.html