Cycad cones and flushes

[greysrigging]

Here is a Cycad that has been neglected/overgrown with weedy vines, been dead looking for a year....

My son had the chainsaw out ready to chop it, but spied some new fronds shooting.

So now has a reprieve ( naturally )

We'll take some more shots as the fronds develop.

I wonder if it's a native or an exotic species. ?
( Darwin, Northern Territory of Australia )
 

[Billeb]

6 hours ago, greysrigging said:

 

 

Nice!……Just your average 25 frond flush! 🤣👍 

-dale 

[Tracy]

7 hours ago, greysrigging said:

Here is a Cycad that has been neglected/overgrown with weedy vines, been dead looking for a year....

My son had the chainsaw out ready to chop it, but spied some new fronds shooting.

So now has a reprieve ( naturally )

We'll take some more shots as the fronds develop.

I wonder if it's a native or an exotic species. ?
( Darwin, Northern Territory of Australia )
 

Looking forward to seeing the full flush after it develops.   It is pretty difficult for anyone to id at this stage and I don’t think of myself as knowledgeable when it comes to identifying Australian Cycas.

[greysrigging]

8 hours ago, Tracy said:

Looking forward to seeing the full flush after it develops.   It is pretty difficult for anyone to id at this stage and I don’t think of myself as knowledgeable when it comes to identifying Australian Cycas.

A local cycad person on our local gardening FB Page ...."The colour of the new leaves looks like Cycas calcicola, native to the Katherine /Litchfield region."

[greysrigging]

Flush coming along nicely....
 

[greysrigging]

On 1/22/2023 at 2:30 AM, Tracy said:

Looking forward to seeing the full flush after it develops.   It is pretty difficult for anyone to id at this stage and I don’t think of myself as knowledgeable when it comes to identifying Australian Cycas.

Fronds looking good now !

Edited February 1, 2023 by greysrigging

[edbrown_III]

[Tracy]

On 9/17/2021 at 8:13 AM, Tracy said:

Only one of my two of this E. whitelockii x sclavoi hybrids is coning right now.  Last year was the first time for the male and this year I found out that my other one is female.

This Encephalartos whitlockii x sclavoi cone finally matured and started to fall apart.   I didn't pollinate it so am just dumping the seeds and cone.  It was a beautiful yellow cone, decorating the plant for well over 15 months.

[Merlyn]

@Tracyso if this Whitelockii x Sclavoi wasn't pollinated by hand, how would you tell if the seeds were accidentally pollinated by something else?  I've had a couple of Hildebrandtii females cone, and a Whitelockii/Ituriensis coned for the first time over the summer.  I lucked out with a couple of Zamia Picta clumps, apparently one clump has several male and female in the same cluster.  But I've never tried pollinating, so I'm not sure how to tell if it worked or not...

[Tracy]

9 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@Tracyso if this Whitelockii x Sclavoi wasn't pollinated by hand, how would you tell if the seeds were accidentally pollinated by something else?  I've had a couple of Hildebrandtii females cone, and a Whitelockii/Ituriensis coned for the first time over the summer.  I lucked out with a couple of Zamia Picta clumps, apparently one clump has several male and female in the same cluster.  But I've never tried pollinating, so I'm not sure how to tell if it worked or not...

If I understand the question correctly,  you are curious if there is a possibility for my female cone to have received pollen via a different vector since I didn't hand pollinate it.  We don't have the weevils here to pollinate Encephalartos.   I also didn't have any male Encephalartos coning nearby.

With your Zamia picta, although I don't think they are native to Florida,  you do have other native Zamia.  So I would guess that if you had natural fertilization of your females in the presence of male cones it has something to do with the vector for your native species stepping in to do the work.

[mnorell]

1 hour ago, Tracy said:

If I understand the question correctly,  you are curious if there is a possibility for my female cone to have received pollen via a different vector since I didn't hand pollinate it.  We don't have the weevils here to pollinate Encephalartos.   I also didn't have any male Encephalartos coning nearby.

With your Zamia picta, although I don't think they are native to Florida,  you do have other native Zamia.  So I would guess that if you had natural fertilization of your females in the presence of male cones it has something to do with the vector for your native species stepping in to do the work.

Zamia furfuracea, a non-native species in the Florida Keys, easily volunteers all over the place there. People are giving seedlings away often for this reason. I had many pop up in our yard near some of our plants; So I assume you are right, Tracy, in assuming that the pollination-vector for Z. floridana can work its magic on not only Z. furfuracea, but perhaps other Zamias as well...?

[amh]

12 hours ago, Tracy said:

This Encephalartos whitlockii x sclavoi cone finally matured and started to fall apart.   I didn't pollinate it so am just dumping the seeds and cone.  It was a beautiful yellow cone, decorating the plant for well over 15 months.

Did you check the seeds for viability?

[Tracy]

1 hour ago, amh said:

Did you check the seeds for viability?

No, short of expecting an immaculate conception, it didn't seem necessary 😕. 

[amh]

7 minutes ago, Tracy said:

No, short of expecting an immaculate conception, it didn't seem necessary 😕. 

Just curious.

I know the encephalartos genus can produce sterile seeds without pollination, but was curious if the winds or local bugs ever played matchmaker.

[Merlyn]

6 hours ago, amh said:

Did you check the seeds for viability?

That was actually my original question, I just phrased it really badly.    If I'm hoping to get a new flush sometimes I'll cut off the cone to "save the plant some energy" of growing non-viable seeds.  But now that I have about 10 coning-sized Encephalartos in the backyard, how would I tell if the cone is actually viable or not...prior to cutting open seeds and looking for embryos?  In FL we have bugs.  We have lots of bugs.  We have too many bugs.  But I don't know if they cross-pollinate Encephalartos. 

My Picta came from ChuckG, he had several pots of low and high variegation types.  I planted 4 of them in a cluster and was hoping I had at least one male and one female.  The next closest coning sized Zamia is a Furfuracea in the front yard, about 80 feet away.  The early leaves look like Picta, so I'm guessing it's not a hybrid. 

[Tracy]

5 hours ago, amh said:

Just curious.

I know the encephalartos genus can produce sterile seeds without pollination, but was curious if the winds or local bugs ever played matchmaker.

 

1 hour ago, Merlyn said:

That was actually my original question, I just phrased it really badly.    If I'm hoping to get a new flush sometimes I'll cut off the cone to "save the plant some energy" of growing non-viable seeds.  But now that I have about 10 coning-sized Encephalartos in the backyard, how would I tell if the cone is actually viable or not...prior to cutting open seeds and looking for embryos?  In FL we have bugs.  We have lots of bugs.  We have too many bugs.  But I don't know if they cross-pollinate Encephalartos. 

My Picta came from ChuckG, he had several pots of low and high variegation types.  I planted 4 of them in a cluster and was hoping I had at least one male and one female.  The next closest coning sized Zamia is a Furfuracea in the front yard, about 80 feet away.  The early leaves look like Picta, so I'm guessing it's not a hybrid. 

I can't rule out that some insect could possibly crawl on a male Encephalartos that activly is shedding pollen in your yards, then travel to a receptive female Encephalartos cone and crawl up and inside, shedding the pollen to pollinate the cone.  It just is low probability without the natural pollinators which are attracted by the scents of the cones.  Here in California, we have fewer bugs in general.  I have never heard of any Encephalartos seeds being pollinated without human intervention here.  

Relative to testing seeds without cutting them open, you could use a float test.  Put the seeds in a bucket of water floaters and sinkers that stand upright on the bottom can all be tossed.  If you have any true sinkers, then you might take the time to investigate more.  

One benefit of not having natural pollinators is that we can select the parents of our breeding since we are collecting the pollen and applying it to the female cones.  

From personal experience,  timing of cone maturation isn't always precise.   The more of a species you have, the  more likely you will have pollen and receptive females at the same time.   Otherwise,  you have to rely on frozen pollen or friends collections for your girls when thy are receptive. 

[Tracy]

An unknown Cycas species or hybrid I have been growing since it was a two leaf seedling in a 3x9 band is flushing.  I don't recall if this has coned or shown any female megasporophylls yet to help id it.

[DippyD]

Never too early or too late for a planting in SoCal…. Between the storms, we plant! 

[Gallop]

First cone this year.

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Gallop

[Gallop]

Trimmed leaves on Cycas taitungensis as the were severely damaged from this past winter. It didn’t take long for a new flush to start.

[GeneAZ]

That is quite the flush!!!

[Gallop]

Well that was quick, Cycas taitungensis update.

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Gallop

[Tracy]

On 2/28/2023 at 12:43 AM, Gallop said:

Trimmed leaves on Cycas taitungensis as the were severely damaged from this past winter. It didn’t take long for a new flush to start.

That was fast on that flush and fortunately looks like a nice full one.  I did have to correct you on your comment about "this past winter".  We are still in Winter until March 20th up here in the Northern Hemi.  I'm still a little worried about wind and cool conditions as my first Encephalartos flush is in full push mode.  We have had a good deal of rain and wind, with frost advisories in Coastal Valleys of Southern California tonight after the current storm blows out.  Ironically the front side of this storm with the rain is rather warm right along the coast, but that is supposed to change. 

Not surprisingly, shortly after I trimmed off the female cone that was falling apart on this Encephalartos whitlockii x sclavoi hybrid, I could see this flush beginning to emerge.  I'm hoping it remains slow enough for things to warm up and wind to decrease before these leaves get too tall but still have soft leaflets.  They seem the most vulnerable when they get above the older flushes which can provide a little protection.  Wind reading a little earlier this morning at the beach here was 36 mph with gusts into the mid 40's... enough to do some damage.

[DippyD]

Another one in! Because we can!

[DippyD]

Another one because it’s just too cool! 

[Merlyn]

Here's a nice recovery-from-defoliation flush on a Cycas.  I bought this as Cycas Wadei or Wilailak, though it's never been positively identified.  It's definitely not cold-hardy, as it defoliated last year at about 25F and again this year at about 27-28F.  I may have to move this to a slightly more protected area.  It got a bit of sunburn in May and June last year, so I think it prefers some PM shade.  At the moment it's in full sun all day, all year.  The small Cycas Rev x Deb to the upper left was unfazed by either the cold, frost, or sun... 

[Gallop]

On 2/28/2023 at 2:34 AM, Gallop said:

First cone this year.

 

 

[Gallop]

Stangeria cone, not sure if it’s male or female?

Edited March 6, 2023 by Gallop

[DippyD]

Transitioning the center of the garden… out they go…. Replacement photos coming soon! 

[Tracy]

On 3/6/2023 at 9:56 PM, DippyD said:

Transitioning the center of the garden… out they go…. Replacement photos coming soon! 

I'm guessing those are Encephalartos ituriensis you are removing?  Pretty obvious, but the replacements must be something demanding a little less space at least in the short run and a bit more rare. 

On a different note, it is going to be interesting to watch how all the Cycads out west respond to this winter's rain.  I'm expecting that they will have a lot of energy stored when things start to warm up and am looking forward to the results with a few of these youngsters.

[Gallop]

Ceratozamia cones

[Tracy]

7 hours ago, Gallop said:

Ceratozamia cones

Which species?  Ever try to pollinate any of your Ceratozamia?  I have a few females but never tried pollinating this genus.

[Gallop]

1 hour ago, Tracy said:

Which species?  Ever try to pollinate any of your Ceratozamia?  I have a few females but never tried pollinating this genus.

Hildae male/ female

Kuesteriana male / female

Zaragozae x hildae male

Chamberlenanii several male cones

I should have other ceratozamia coning soon as well. 

I’m sure you’ll have good success if you gave it a try. I try all the time, mainly fooling around with Cerat hybrids. 

What female cones do you have, I usually have extra pollin available.

[Tracy]

4 hours ago, Gallop said:

Hildae male/ female

Kuesteriana male / female

Zaragozae x hildae male

Chamberlenanii several male cones

I should have other ceratozamia coning soon as well. 

I’m sure you’ll have good success if you gave it a try. I try all the time, mainly fooling around with Cerat hybrids. 

What female cones do you have, I usually have extra pollin available.

Just removed old cones today from female Ceratozamia mexicana and latifolia.  Also have female Ceratozamia robusta, and another latifolia hybrid.   Only two males, Ceratozamia pacifica and hildae.

Latifolia, mexicana and robusta below. 

[Tracy]

These two Encephalartos are primed with potential and pregnant with possibilities.  Will they flush or cone this year as temps start warming... that is my question.  Encephalartos princeps and Encephalartos arenarius.

[Gallop]

5 hours ago, Tracy said:

Just removed old cones today from female Ceratozamia mexicana and latifolia.  Also have female Ceratozamia robusta, and another latifolia hybrid.   Only two males, Ceratozamia pacifica and hildae.

Latifolia, mexicana and robusta below. 

Your latifolia, is most likely chamberlainii. Unless that is Microstrobila which is now latifolia.

Is your mexicana green emergent? 

[Tracy]

40 minutes ago, Gallop said:

Your latifolia, is most likely chamberlainii. Unless that is Microstrobila which is now latifolia.

Is your mexicana green emergent? 

Ceratozamia mexicana is bronze emergent.  The latifolia were so named when I got them about 15 years ago and I have not followed any name changes in the interim years for this genus. 

[Gallop]

There is alot of confusion in the Ceratozamia complex. There was a name change on what was being grown as Latafolia, they are now chamberlainii. Cz microstobilia is now Latifolia. 

Mexicana is green emergent, a group of plants similar to mexicana growing in a nearby locality were brown/bronze/red emergent, these were distributed as mexicana but are not and are yet to be given a name. 

[Merlyn]

@Gallopinteresting!  I read about the Latifola/Robusta/Mexicana weirdness, but I thought that was all resolved.  Microstrobilus looks very different from the others, and I'd never heard of Chamberlainii.  I have a fairly large Ceratozamia in that group, bought as a "Robusta type" but never ID'd.  If I recall correctly it's bronze emergent, I'll have to get photos at the next flush.

[Tracy]

11 hours ago, Gallop said:

Mexicana is green emergent, a group of plants similar to mexicana growing in a nearby locality were brown/bronze/red emergent, these were distributed as mexicana but are not and are yet to be given a name. 

The one I acquired as Ceratozamia mexicana was acquired as a band size plant around 2007 or 2008, locally here in Encinitas (Jungle Music - Phil Bergman).  It is a little challenging getting photos of flushes these days due to proximity of other plants, but below are some old photos from 2012 (dark chocolate brown flush with a Ceratozamia robusta in the pot behind it) and another after it went into the ground, from 2017, a little further along in a flush as its color lightens before fading into green tones.  The Ceratozamia robusta was acquired from Phil as well, shortly after the one labeled mexicana and it also flushes the same deep chocolate red to brown color.  The robusta is much more upright with new flushes holding them upright until the flush is replaced with a couple of new flushes and or cones.  Leaflets are also very long on that one as you can see in the post above where I included a photo.

Interesting that they decided to break out the colorful flushing ones into a separate species, any differences in cone or is it mainly the flush color?   ....groupers and dividers, always interesting to hear the latest.  Any dna work used to create the distinction?

Just as a side note, the two plants I acquired as Ceratozamia pacifica both look very similar in leaflets to the one I'm growing as C mexicana but the leaves flushes green on the one labeled C pacifica.  One is a male but without a male Ceratozamia mexicana, I have nothing to compare that C pacifica cone with.  The other one slowed down after putting it in the ground and has never coned.