Grey water and palms?

[Kim]

Due to impending water restrictions, we've started collecting grey water in buckets for use in the garden. So far using it with plants I am sure won't be bothered by the 'grey' in the water -- the soapy residue. What about palms? Will they be sensitive to soap and shampoo mixed in the water? (Yuk... ) Or might there even be some minor benefit? I'd rather save water inside than outside, and this is an easy way to extend our limited resource, but I don't want to poison my palms. Definitely not using it on my bromeliads until I do a test, they can be quite sensitive.

Any experiences with palms and grey water, please post.

[Scott]

Thanks Kim for this topic! I'm most displeased by the restrictions. I was wondering the same thing... also would it vary from specie to specie? Say a Bizzie might not like it but the butia can handle it?

Also I live in a house on a slab foundation. Is there a way for it to automatically syphon off into it's own resevoir?

Lots of questions here!

[Jeff Searle]

Kim,

I can't really say for sure, because I have no experience on this, but I would think if you use this water on larger, well established plants and palms, you would be reasonably safe if used in moderation. Just my humble opinion. I know it's getting tougher and tougher outhere with the water restrictions.

Jeff

[Tilto]

Suprisingly this is one question that I can answer definitively.Grey water is used exclusively in the drier caribbean islands

(Bahamas,Turks and Caicos Islands etc) to water landscape trees.The the water out of the pipe is very expensive due to the fact that it is usually from desalinization.I have found the results to be very good.I have one caveat, the palms usually found in these island are usually drought resisitant. (Bucaneers, Royals, Bottles, spindles etc) Maybe a water loving palm will suffer but I have found that the results are very good and usually the palms need no extra fertilization,possibly due to the nutrients usually found in grey water.

.

Kim,

I can't really say for sure, because I have no experience on this, but I would think if you use this water on larger, well established plants and palms, you would be reasonably safe if used in moderation. Just my humble opinion. I know it's getting tougher and tougher outhere with the water restrictions.

Jeff

[Jeff in St Pete]

Kim, I used to follow Jerry Baker's recipes for garden tonics and they usually included liquid soap (dish soap). When I was using his tonics in Tampa, I would mix all the household ingredients together in a hose-end sprayer and soak everything in my yard with it. My palms and other plants thrived, so I don't think the soap will hurt them. His tonics are made up of ingredients like soap, coca cola, ammonia, beer, and other items you could find around the house and none of them ever hurt any of my palms.

[Scott]

Ammonia? Wow.... I'm sure the palms would love the beer!

[Kim]

Kim, I used to follow Jerry Baker's recipes for garden tonics and they usually included liquid soap (dish soap). When I was using his tonics in Tampa, I would mix all the household ingredients together in a hose-end sprayer and soak everything in my yard with it. My palms and other plants thrived, so I don't think the soap will hurt them. His tonics are made up of ingredients like soap, coca cola, ammonia, beer, and other items you could find around the house and none of them ever hurt any of my palms.

Sounds like a mad scientist's recipe! So this will be no problem, excellent. Thanks for the replies, Jeff, Tilto, and Jeff CR.

[MattyB]

Kim, you can lessen the "grey" in your grey water by using more organic friendly soaps too. Costco has a laundry detergent that's derived from Coconut Palms now. Smells good. I believe that Ivory is an enviromentally friendly soap. Probably the less dyes and fragrances the better. Look on the internet for easy ways to set up a filtering system too, so the sludge/scum is separated from the clear water. That way you can set up an automatic grey water collection system for easiest use. You might wanna keep it covered and out of the sun, it can stink.

[PalmatierMeg]

Kim, I think you'll be okay. Here in Cape Coral we have dual water systems, one potable, one for irrigation only - the first such system in the US. The irrigation water is recycled wastewater supplemented by water from our freshwater canals. We pay a flat monthly fee for irrigation water but due to restrictions, can irrigate only 2x per week from midnight to 4 a.m. But it's a blessing during dry season and drought. Also, you might look into a home cistern system. It may not help this summer but you could collect rain in winter.

[Jonathan]

Hi Kim,

here are a couple of shots of our reed bed filter system for grey water, which has been running for about a year now.

Its basically a series of three concrete tanks about 6' square by 2' deep stepping down the slope. The water flows into the top bed and out to a sump, where it gets pumped to my greenhouse to water all my palm seedlings! It comes out crystal clear, with no bubbles etc.

I'm not suggesting that you go to the trouble of building something this elaborate, but you could easily knock up a simple system based on this idea. You need to be very careful with grey water, because although most soaps etc, are fairly inert, some will burn your plants very badly. Do not under any circumstances use water from your kitchen sink or dishwasher untreated as the phosphate levels in those types of detergents are dangerously high - even in so-called eco friendly brands.

You can see from the reed growth in the lower two beds that most of the nutrients are being absorbed in the top bed.

I think you could make a small one bed system (which could double as an ornamental garden feature) that would do a pretty good job for you. The tank could be old baths, plastic troughs, or anything that holds water.

If anyone would like a drawing of my system just send through a PM.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Al in Kona]

Since we are on the Leeward coast (Kona side, drier and sunnier - usually) of the Big Island we can often use a little extra water in the garden, especially for those plants that might require more water. We use all our laundry grey water for one small area of the garden. It is piped by gravity flow and we do have a shut off valve that then diverts the water directly back to the sewer. This can be used just in case we might use something more caustic such as bleach in a wash load. This grey water certainly has shown no negative effects but rather seems to make the plants (including palms) grow really well. That's been our experience anyway.

[happ]

I have been using grey water for a livistona with no ill-effects as yet. I hope to divert shower water into the garden this summer. I once rented a small house that diverted water from the tub in a garden but forgot about it when the tub got clodded. "Drano" did a number on the landlord's sapote tree I'm afraid

[Kim]

Lots of good information here! Jonathan, I like your filtering system, that's brilliant.

Our garden is very small, and 2/3 of it is on automatic irrigation, allowing water usage to be easily controlled. Even with the irrigation, certain plants require extra water, which I used to deliver via hose on the weekend. The grey water will essentially replace the hose watering. I will relocate a lot of bromeliads to the automated irrigation areas, saving a bit more. It will be interesting to see how much this reduces our consumption.

If California continues to dry up we may have to take more drastic measures -- stop allowing our adult daughter to do her laundry here, for instance.

[Scott]

Kim - please keep us updated with whatever system you go with. Byt the way - the laundry water is the easiest to collect it seems because you can run the washer discharge right into it's own collection container.

[DoomsDave]

My washer outflow goes onto the ground, not the septic tank, and plants seem to love it, weeds and palms alike.

Even bleach doesn't seem to bother them, but I'm going to try a controlled experiment, mua-ha-ha!

Indeed, the detergent (which isn't soap, at least in the technical sense) seems to make the water more effective because of its surfactant action, i.e., breaking the surface film on the water, which allows it to penetrate more deeply more quickly.

[Ben in Norcal]

Moose-like bump...where's he been, anyway?

Installing a diverter valve on one of our showers today, and thinking of running the outflow to some king palms. Any recent experiences using grey water to water palms, particularly anything adverse?

[Kim]

For the record, there was no noticeable negative effect on the palms from re-use of the shower water.  In the end, I got tired of hauling buckets after many months. Winter came again and it rained enough to loosen the water restrictions.  But that was some years back.

If I were facing the problem today of lots of thirsty palms, I would definitely go to the trouble to install a diverter system from the shower and laundry to collect in a tank under the house and use as needed. Go for it, Ben!

[Ben in Norcal]

34 minutes ago, Kim said:

For the record, there was no noticeable negative effect on the palms from re-use of the shower water.  In the end, I got tired of hauling buckets after many months. Winter came again and it rained enough to loosen the water restrictions.  But that was some years back.

If I were facing the problem today of lots of thirsty palms, I would definitely go to the trouble to install a diverter system from the shower and laundry to collect in a tank under the house and use as needed. Go for it, Ben!

Thanks for the continued input, Kim!  I put a diverter on one shower today, and may do another one next weekend.  I am really lucky in that my shower drains, under my house, are about 5 feet UPHILL from some Archontophoenix.  So I just have to whack on the diverters, plumb through the wall, and run a bit of pipe outside to the palms.  I have the one up and running under a valve box.  Will also make an effort to change to some eco-friendly soaps and cleaners.  I'm silly excited about this!  Plan is to see how this works out and then potentially remove the irrigation from this zone.  May do another one in front off the washing machine if I can get my wife to buy off on an ecologically friendly detergent!

[Kim]

Ben, can you show a pic of the diverter?  Where do you purchase the equipment?  I could easily do this under my house, too.  Same slope conditions at my place with some Howeas downslope.

[Ben in Norcal]

1 hour ago, Kim said:

Ben, can you show a pic of the diverter?  Where do you purchase the equipment?  I could easily do this under my house, too.  Same slope conditions at my place with some Howeas downslope.

Kim, let me know if this link works.  This is the second valve I ordered to do the 2nd shower.  It's like what you see on the top of a swimming pool or koi pond filter; basically lets you select whether to send water to sewer, or out to the yard (once you plumb it!)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/351640135769?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Kim]

Link works fine!  I have to get on YouTube and study up on my plumbing skills... 

[Ben in Norcal]

3 minutes ago, Kim said:

Link works fine!  I have to get on YouTube and study up on my plumbing skills... 

It's pretty easy.  I had to plumb multiple filtration circuits on a koi pond - this was cake in comparison (apart from the bathing in rat feces under the house!)