Chambeyronia lepidota

[quaman58]

This may have been covered earlier in this thread; forgive me if it has. I've got two seedlings, bought on two different occasions from the same grower. (Floribunda) Both are only about two years old. One has relatively wide leaflets, very Chambeyronia-like, & grows at a moderate rate. The other is still producing very narrow bifid leaves & appears much slower to grow. However, both look perfect; they're tucked in between a bunch of little mountain palms & seem to be happy in the cool filtered zone. I've seen the seeds sold as "high" & "low" elevation versions, so my guess is that that is the reason for the differences. They don't look at all close to each other.

[LJG]

Bret, let's see some pictures. Congrats on keeping them alive for two years.

I have the same two plants also. I called Jeff and sent him pictures of the bifid one as it was different then all others I had. He assured me they both came in as Lepidota. So now to figure out which was the high and which is then low altitude forms Toby was selling.

[richnorm]

So now to figure out which was the high and which is then low altitude forms Toby was selling.

The low form has a half ellipsoid seed , narrower bifid leaflets and is uniform green in all parts. The high form has ellipsoid seed, broader leaves and purple in the stem (much closer to regular Chambeyronia). I think some find the high form faster. I lost a few of the low form for reasons unknown but they are not as tricky as many NewCal species thus far though they are both slow for me.

[quaman58]

Hey Len,

Here's a couple shots of the little ones. Both about 2 years old from seed. (Spike actually, from Jeff.)

Hope they help a bit.

[quaman58]

One more side by side..

[BS Man about Palms]

Cool Bret. I hope Len posts pix of his too as at this age, the difference is even more pronounced.

[Matt in SD]

Those look great Bret. Mine both died...guess I can't blame the climate! (Bret and I live about 1 mile apart)

Matt

[quaman58]

Matt,

A funny story. Terry (next door), put all his in his greenhouse. Or so he thought. All died. (4 or 5). He's cleaning up his container ranch during his remodel a couple years later & finds a wide leaf variety outside, jammed in between a zillion other plants. Inadvertantly watered whenever he waters everything else. When he re-discovers it, it is nearly twice the size of mine. Apparently thriving in it's anonymity.

[LJG]

Bret, those babies are at the start of the difficult period.

I was reading back in this post and was sad to see mine looking great. A few months later that all died.

[Matt in SD]

Oh Len, that sucks. Yours were crusing, I was hoping to trade for one down the road. They're all dead?!

Matt

[LJG]

Oh Len, that sucks. Yours were crusing, I was hoping to trade for one down the road. They're all dead?!

Matt

Yep. One was perfect size for planting but I got greedy and tried to get one more year of greenhouse growth. All 5 got the same fungus-like death that kills so much of the NewCal stuff. I am beginning to think it is not a fungus but a cultural thing in pots. I could not imagine it being a fungus with the amount of fungicide and the varieties I have used.

On a side note, does anyone know where we in SoCal can get volcanic rock like what Jeff Marcus uses in his pots?

[palmcurry]

This is the second time I've read this thread and one things for sure: I probably won't have much luck growing this palm!

Here are 2 pics from the Hamann garden of a C.lepidota. When I asked Greg about it his response was like 'well, supposedly its a lepidota'

Looks like hookerii to me but if it is lepidota it's an impressive size.

[LJG]

Thats 100% Hookerii.

[Matt in SD]

I had been getting the black cinder from Hansen/A1. But I was there a couple weeks ago and they stopped carrying it and have this dusty red cinder crap instead. I made up a batch of soil with it tonight and checked the drainage and it's like mud...just horrible. I'm seriously bummed. I was using a supersoil:black cinder:pumice (2:1:1) mix for several years now and the New Cal stuff in particular seemed to do well in it. Len, it's the "heavy mix" that you didn't like...it actually is very good for some plants, Dypsis prefer my light mix (coco peat:fir bark:perlite, 1:1:1) but the New Cal stuff generally seemed to do better in the heavy mix.

Not sure what to do now. Maybe just use more pumice. Or maybe the red cinder dust will provide some magic nutrients despite the fact that it gums up the mix in general. I've got some rare New Cal stuff coming in on Friday and need to figure something out.

Oh, and that Hamann palm is hookeri, 100%.

Matt

[LJG]

I had been getting the black cinder from Hansen/A1. But I was there a couple weeks ago and they stopped carrying it and have this dusty red cinder crap instead. I made up a batch of soil with it tonight and checked the drainage and it's like mud...just horrible. I'm seriously bummed. I was using a supersoil:black cinder:pumice (2:1:1) mix for several years now and the New Cal stuff in particular seemed to do well in it. Len, it's the "heavy mix" that you didn't like...it actually is very good for some plants, Dypsis prefer my light mix (coco peat:fir bark:perlite, 1:1:1) but the New Cal stuff generally seemed to do better in the heavy mix.

Not sure what to do now. Maybe just use more pumice. Or maybe the red cinder dust will provide some magic nutrients despite the fact that it gums up the mix in general. I've got some rare New Cal stuff coming in on Friday and need to figure something out.

Oh, and that Hamann palm is hookeri, 100%.

Matt

Funny. I am two weeks ahead of you. The same NewCal stuff you got, as you know I got earlier. I could not find the black cinder so I too bought this dyed red cinder as it was all I could find. I had the same reaction. The red dye or whatever it is comes off and makes a mud. I was looking at some rare stuff wondering if I sent it to its death due to the red cinder. I am hoping it will provide the minerals that Pete swears by with the NewCal stuff. And I agree with you on the heavy mix with NewCal palms. They seem to last longer in a heavier, rocky mix ... hence my quest for black cinder!

[Darold Petty]

Len, I think that pumice is a good alternative to the Hawaiian black cinder. It's heavier than water and thus won't float up to the top of the pot like perlite. It's clean and does not shed the dust of red cinder. I purchase the best available potting soil mix and then add pumice 1 part to 4 parts of the potting soil. 1 to 3 would work well for very fast drainage. Here in the Bay Area pumice is $ 6.75 for a 3/4 cubic foot bag.

[Darold Petty]

I have 9 three-leaf seedlings of the high-elevation form in my greenhouse. I am considering moving a few outdoors under 50% shadecloth.

Comments please,... I do have somewhat of a 'sink or swim' attitude. (It's the 'kiss of death' to leave Lepidorrachis in the greenhouse, all of mine are outdoors.)

[quaman58]

Hey Darold,

As I mentioned above, all of them that my neighbor & I have left outside are alive. All greenhoused ones are dead. My experience with NewCal stuff, in my area, leads me to keep them outside under heavy canopy. (A row of 4-5 foot Phoenix rob. in my case). Same as LHI stuff when young. There's no question that mine grow slower outdoors, but disease issues are practically nil. Everything seems more forgiving, which is good since I'm too lazy to get really analytical about my soil mix.

Bret

[Bags]

Oh Len, that sucks. Yours were crusing, I was hoping to trade for one down the road. They're all dead?!

Matt

Yep. One was perfect size for planting but I got greedy and tried to get one more year of greenhouse growth. All 5 got the same fungus-like death that kills so much of the NewCal stuff. I am beginning to think it is not a fungus but a cultural thing in pots. I could not imagine it being a fungus with the amount of fungicide and the varieties I have used.

On a side note, does anyone know where we in SoCal can get volcanic rock like what Jeff Marcus uses in his pots?

Len this place sells rock dust as fertilizer. I have used it off and can't tell you if it has made a difference, but it might be be an alternative for you. http://www.fertilizeronline.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=A&Category_Code=am

[richnorm]

I have 9 three-leaf seedlings of the high-elevation form in my greenhouse. I am considering moving a few outdoors under 50% shadecloth.

Comments please,... I do have somewhat of a 'sink or swim' attitude. (It's the 'kiss of death' to leave Lepidorrachis in the greenhouse, all of mine are outdoors.)

My low forms did better outside than in over last winter but never saw frost. My high forms have not done a winter yet but I will be leaving them out. I would go for less shade.

[Darold Petty]

Thanks guys, outside they go !

[Big50]

Here are mine for today.

[quaman58]

Very nice plants, & great detail on the images. Thanks for sharing those. How old are they?

[LJG]

Here are mine for today.

Wow. Great job!

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Big 50 they look great !

Here is my Chambeyronia lepidota (High elevation) . It does'nt seem to be bothered by the winters down here @ 43 deg south and its always outdoors .

I beleve these will want similar growing temps to Hedyscepe and leppidorachis (both do well for me ) so far so good !

[Tyrone]

Here are mine for today.

They're so strong and robust!!!! How do you do it? They're fantastic.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

Big 50 they look great !

Here is my Chambeyronia lepidota (High elevation) . It does'nt seem to be bothered by the winters down here @ 43 deg south and its always outdoors .

I beleve these will want similar growing temps to Hedyscepe and leppidorachis (both do well for me ) so far so good !

Doing well Troy. Mine are about at your stage, but I have to be very careful with them in summer here. Mine sit at the bottom of my shady greenhouse right next to a shadecloth wall of the shadehouse so they can collect the cool seabreezes from the west. They seem to like that.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Miccles]

Here are mine for today.

They're so strong and robust!!!! How do you do it? They're fantastic.

Best regards

Tyrone

Now THEY look awesome !

Regards

Michael

[richnorm]

Big 50 they look great !

Here is my Chambeyronia lepidota (High elevation) . It does'nt seem to be bothered by the winters down here @ 43 deg south and its always outdoors .

I beleve these will want similar growing temps to Hedyscepe and leppidorachis (both do well for me ) so far so good !

Troy, could that be the "low" form? I think the "low" form were actually sold as "mid-altitude" (about 400m). To make matters worse there was added confusion with some of the lows being called high initially! Big 50 has superb examples of the high form. You seem to have the knack for these too, well done!

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Big 50 they look great !

Here is my Chambeyronia lepidota (High elevation) . It does'nt seem to be bothered by the winters down here @ 43 deg south and its always outdoors .

I beleve these will want similar growing temps to Hedyscepe and leppidorachis (both do well for me ) so far so good !

Troy, could that be the "low" form? I think the "low" form were actually sold as "mid-altitude" (about 400m). To make matters worse there was added confusion with some of the lows being called high initially! Big 50 has superb examples of the high form. You seem to have the knack for these too, well done!

The seed source for mine were From RPS and the friend of mine that grew them has some at the RSBG nursery high elevation .

[richnorm]

Big 50 they look great !

Here is my Chambeyronia lepidota (High elevation) . It does'nt seem to be bothered by the winters down here @ 43 deg south and its always outdoors .

I beleve these will want similar growing temps to Hedyscepe and leppidorachis (both do well for me ) so far so good !

Troy, could that be the "low" form? I think the "low" form were actually sold as "mid-altitude" (about 400m). To make matters worse there was added confusion with some of the lows being called high initially! Big 50 has superb examples of the high form. You seem to have the knack for these too, well done!

The seed source for mine were From RPS and the friend of mine that grew them has some at the RSBG nursery high elevation .

I was supplied some RPS seed as High only to be notified that they were in fact low as a mix up had been made. The seed shape differences are unmistakable. I have both forms and they are quite different. Yours looks like my low form in that shot. Time will tell.

[Tyrone]

Big 50 they look great !

Here is my Chambeyronia lepidota (High elevation) . It does'nt seem to be bothered by the winters down here @ 43 deg south and its always outdoors .

I beleve these will want similar growing temps to Hedyscepe and leppidorachis (both do well for me ) so far so good !

Troy, could that be the "low" form? I think the "low" form were actually sold as "mid-altitude" (about 400m). To make matters worse there was added confusion with some of the lows being called high initially! Big 50 has superb examples of the high form. You seem to have the knack for these too, well done!

The seed source for mine were From RPS and the friend of mine that grew them has some at the RSBG nursery high elevation .

I was supplied some RPS seed as High only to be notified that they were in fact low as a mix up had been made. The seed shape differences are unmistakable. I have both forms and they are quite different. Yours looks like my low form in that shot. Time will tell.

Just to refresh us what does the low form seed look like, and what does the high form seed look like?

Best regards

Tyrone

[richnorm]

High form has an ellipsoid (ie egg shaped) seed. Low (mid) form has a half ellipsoid seed with gel filling the remainder of the fruit. This is a photo of the low form seed.

[Tyrone]

Just checked mine and mine were from the first seed batch which Toby said were the high elevation variety. They have ellipsoid seeds. I'm down to 12 plants from 17 before summer. Those alive look fine but it looks like I've lost one robust one. All I can put it down too is the hot summer we had. Maybe I'd been better with the low elevation ones. Maybe they'd be less touchy. They may get easier the larger they get.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

Just read this whole thread again(it took ages). It refreshed my memory of even some of the things I posted. I've decided to hook up some Netafim coolnets near my C lepidotas and NC stuff to keep it cool and moist in summer while they're small. Looking back over the record I've left, it's late Autumn early winter when the casualties happen. Going to look for some volcanic rock too. I want this species to succeed here. Going to give them some care tomorrow as the cool weather is here now. I'm always scared to touch them during the warm weather. If I can keep the peak temps below 30C preferably below 26C I may be on a winner.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tassie_Troy1971]

If it gets too hot over there Tyrone you can always send over a few (Lepidota ) to the Tasmania palm society Trio i have a few Washingtonia filifera to trade

Troy

[chakoro]

Hi everyone, Here are three of mine

This one purchased as a one leaf seedling.

This one i germinated from RPS seed as high elevation form.

This one was also purchased as a one leaf seedling recently and had the seed still attached,the leaf was obviously different but the seed was identical to the others(RPS)needless to say i was a little confused untill reading this thread.Would any body be able to tell me which is which?I dont have the seed shells anymore but i do remember they seemed identical from the outside.Regards Craig.

[Tyrone]

Here are mine today. I gave them some rock minerals (Nutritech Soft Phos Rock) and some Potassium Magnesium humates (Nutritech K Mag humates) a bit of Grocote fert and a spray for some scale that was on them. I thought the rock minerals would be good for these NC palms and as the softrock is high in pH I've combined them with the humates which are acid, so hopefully they'll cancel each other out and be neutral. Mine look like rubbish compared to Craig's and Big50 in Portugal. I don't even think they've grown since spring. I put them in the greenhouse spread apart for good air movement up against the shadecloth wall where it's very breezy and they will get all the cold winter breezes and rain. In summer I'll be putting some coolnet misters above them to keep them cool and humid but not totally soaking wet. Let's see if I can get these cranking. I also cleaned the shadehouse roof of all the debris from the gumtree which was blocking light and stopping air movement. It's now bright breezy and cool in there.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

Just looked back at my pic from 14 Jun 2010 and on average mine have grown a spear or maybe a leaf in 1 year. That's slow. Must be the average temps through the year being a tad high. Compare that to my Dwarf Malay coconut which has put out 5 leaves in the same time, and I'm beginning to wonder which one is the real challenge. The ones that died must have just totally stopped during summer and couldn't start up again. I'm not giving up though.

Best regards

Tyrone

[chakoro]

Just looked back at my pic from 14 Jun 2010 and on average mine have grown a spear or maybe a leaf in 1 year. That's slow. Must be the average temps through the year being a tad high. Compare that to my Dwarf Malay coconut which has put out 5 leaves in the same time, and I'm beginning to wonder which one is the real challenge. The ones that died must have just totally stopped during summer and couldn't start up again. I'm not giving up though.

Best regards

Tyrone

Tyrone,your seedlings look great... obviously a reflection of the attention they recieve and if they(new cal palms) wern`t such a challenge to grow some of the mystique would be lost i feel.Never ever give up...Craig.