San Antonio Jubaea

[iamjv]

In 1968 HemisFair Park was built in downtown San Antonio Texas to host the 1968 Worlds Fair, as well as to commemorate the 250th anniversary of the founding of San Antonio. The Riverwalk along with many other locations were beautified for this historic event. It is believed that this is the time frame when this jubaea or jubaea hybrid was planted on the Riverwalk. The palm gets no special care from what I've been able to tell and is actually in a distant part of the Riverwalk which till recently, didn't get much foot traffic and/or observers, so the care takers didn't work in this area much.

The Riverwalk itself is a microclimate, surrounded by the buildings of downtown as well as the protection given by the waterfront. This palm has been in place for 40 yrs now and probably 50 yrs old over all. It has seen the harsh freezes of the 1980's (83 & 89) where we went down to 6F and 9F respectively. The microclimate probably was 3 degrees warmer.... yet these were hard and long lasting freezes for our area and yet the palm doesn't seem to reflect any trunk damage from these events.

Of additional interest, take note of how close this palm is planted to the existing river...

Take a good look at the pics below and let me know if you feel this is a pure Jubaea or possibly a hybrid. Thanks and enjoy. Jv

[Don Little]

It's a beautiful palm thats for sure but I'm going with hybrid. The fronds on Jubaeas are usually pretty stiff and don't droop like the one in the pic. Hybrid or not I would love to have it in my collection. Great pic

[osideterry]

Looks like one of those Jubaea x Howea x Phoenix roebelini crosses that pop up from time to time.

[PalmGuyWC]

JV,

I used to layover in San Antonio a lot, before and after the big freeze. I think I walked every inch of the Riverwalk several times, and I can't recall seeing that particular palm, but I could have missed it. It looks like a Jubaea X Butia to me, not a Butia X Jubaea. I don't think it got that cold along the Reiver walk as there were Rhapis growing there. They were killed back to the ground, but they grew many new pups and looked good again in about 3 years.

Actually I've never seen a large Jubaea X Butia, but that is what I would imagine what one would look like. Man, you really know how to scout up obscure palms.

Dick

[iamjv]

Thanks for the inputs so far.... I too think it's a hybrid of sorts... Jv

[Kai]

My guess is there's some Syagrus in there...

VERY beautifull!

[Gtlevine]

That is not a Jubaea, but it is one wild looking hybrid of some sort. My guess would be Butia x Jubaea, but a very odd looking one. I have seen many Jubaea x Butia but they usually look more like Jubaea. I stand by my guess, but I would not be surprised if I were wrong, it is a very odd palm.

Gary

[iamjv]

Gary it's been a subject of much debate here in south Texas.... most of us that know the jub species suspect its a hybrid but the question is with what???? Butia is the most probable... a second question is was it an intentional cross or a natural one.... considering this palm is 50 yrs old I'm guessing its a natural cross. Then again where was Merrill 50 yrs ago??? Jv

[TonyDFW]

Here are some additional pix of that palm in SA

More Palm pix from San Antonio

[TonyDFW]

Here are some additional pix of that palm in SA

More Palm pix from San Antonio

[Darold Petty]

I also think it is a hybrid, but I'm not qualified to make a guess about what sort of hybrid.

[Exotic Life]

Hybrid for sure indeed, but a very nice one!

Robbin

[PalmGuyWC]

The more I study the photos of the San Antonio mystery palm, the more I think it's a Jubaea X Butia cross. It looks more like a Jubaea than a butia. Notice how the fronds are on a flat plain, and they are stiffer, more like a Jubaea. Look at the size of the trunk. I have a Butia X Jubaea and the fronds arch more like a Butia and mine is more grey/blue. It is much more likely that a natural hybrid would be a Butia X Jubaea, so this is an unusual cross.

It appears the palm has never bloomed, but when it does, if it is half Jubaea the spathes should be covered with rust colored tomentum, but then so does a Butia X Jubaea. One wonders where such a palm came from and how it ended up in Texas where Jubaeas are not common. I bet its origan was California. What a mystery and who planted it?

Dick

[Kris]

Nice visuals...gentlemen !

[JasonD]

I have to say it looks like a shade-grown Jubaea. There's one here in San Francisco with a thin trunk and those odd, droopy leaves and persistent leafbases. Usually I'm quick to call out a hybrid Jubaea, but in this case I'm leaning in the direction of growing conditions. Is it shaded part of the day?

[ricky]

i after say i to think its just a shade grown jubaea does any body know if this palm gets any direct sun as it looks like its in quite a dark and shady place from the pic

ricky

[iamjv]

The palm has gotten very little sunlight in the past.... mind you, this river area is lined on both sided by high rise buildings as well as other taller trees. In fact, if you look at the second and third pics you'll see a massive tree trunk... until recently that was an 70' tall bald cypress tree that severely shaded the palm.

It'll be interesting to watch the palm over the next couple of growing seasons and see if there are any different growing patterns.

The trunk is huge considering the palm only has about 10' of wood trunk.

Interesting enough, I wrote to the river authority over the weekend to see if they had any info on this palm (plant type, when planted, where obtained, etc.). Surprisingly they got back to me today with limited information. It seems the records indicate it was purchased as a Jubaea Chilensis but there wasn't any data on when it was purchased/planted nor where it came from. The botanist presumed that it was probably for the World's Fair based on it's age as well as for such a rare palm to be purchased by the city.

Jv

[JD in the OC]

shade-grown Jubaea X Butia

[TonyDFW]

Here are some additional pix of that palm in SA

More Palm pix from San Antonio

Here are some young Jubeas for comparison. They are grown in full sun. (FYI)

[TonyDFW]

My teenager growing in heavy shade in Dallas.

[TonyDFW]

Some butiaXJubea hybrids

Tampa area hybrid

[TonyDFW]

Young pure Jubea growing in Houston.

I hoped that these palms growing in Humid climates might give some insight into Jubeas and their butia hybrids for comparison sakes.

[iamjv]

Tony thanks for a shot of a jub in Houston.... if a jub will survive there it should certainly make it here in SA as we are a lot less humid. I think yours in your deep soil will do well for they seem to like the deeper soils. The one at the river is also planted in a deep soil area. Sadly deep soil is something I am lacking at my place. Jv

[PalmGuyWC]

Patric Schafer points out to me that if the palm were a pure Jubaea, it would have dropped its old leaf bases (the boots) many years ago, and particularly in a climate (and near the river) with higher humidity. This is also a very old palm.

Dick

[bubba]

Wow! Whatever it is, it is interesting. I see Jub,Phoenix,Butia and Syagus. What does that make it?

[richtrav]

I guess I'm in the minority but I think it's just a plain old Jubaea being grown in a shady spot. I used to remember the name of the guy who planted it in the '60s but have since forgotten it, even by the late '80s he had long been retired. He planted a number of palms in the downtown area, many of which are still around today (like the Brahea armata and Phoenix aff sylvestris at the Water Board. He also planted a xButyagrus there that froze out in 1983). I first remember seeing it back around '86 or so and it had about 3-4 ft of clear trunk back then, and reportedly it was planted at almost that same size back in the '60s, so (if true) it must have spent a lot of time just sitting there

It is apparently possible to grow Jubaea in TX especially if they're planted out large to start with. Here are some down on Lake Austin, taken with a telephoto lens from Mt Bonnell:

[PalmGuyWC]

Richard,

Those are nice Jubaeas. I think those pictures were published on Palm Talk sometime back. As I recall they are growing in a gated community and it's hard to get up close to them. It's a pitty the 3 are planted so close together, another example of a landscape architect or the owner not knowing what he's doing.

Dick

[iamjv]

Rich thanks for the input.... it's good to know it was planted back in the 60's! That sure makes it a slow grower!!! Speaking of that guy and his riverwalk plantings, I just saw that huge armata (40' tall) planted by the now holiday inn (formerly the tropicana) and wonder if he was responsible for that baby too??? JV

[TonyDFW]

Here are some additional images of the Jubeas in Austin

Here is the neighborhood they grow in Austin.

[NBTX11]

Couple Riverwalk shots. Are these first 2 shots of mule palms. Anyone know how long they have been there?

[NBTX11]

[iamjv]

Jim, yes those are mules.... they were planted there in 1994 from 24" boxes per the river authority. They use to be barely feasible due to some large bushes in the foreground but that was recently cleaned out. Jv

[NBTX11]

Jim, yes those are mules.... they were planted there in 1994 from 24" boxes per the river authority. They use to be barely feasible due to some large bushes in the foreground but that was recently cleaned out. Jv

Oh, ok. I wondered how long they had been there. if they have been there since 94, they haven't seen too much if any cold. The Riverwalk probably hasn't gotten colder than the low 20s since 1994. I know the airport got down to 19 or so one year.

[Nigel]

I would say the answer lies in flowering.

Has it flowered ?

A hybrid would have flowered by now, a pure Jubaea probably not.

[iamjv]

Yeah that yr I saw 17F at my place. I figure the riverwalk has a good 3 -5 degree microclimate. It would be a great place to experiment with other palms as I think they would generally do very well down there. The river authority did plant a couple of triangle palms, one died the first yr but the other one is thriving down there. Jv

[NBTX11]

I saw that triangle palm. It looked healthy and pretty big. Wish I would have taken a picture.

[iamjv]

Here you go.... feel free to down load it. Jv

[mjff]

Looking at the Riverwalk Jubaea I believe it is a pure Jubaea being grown not only in the shade, but in a location with a high water table, thus shallow root system.

This is the Jubaea I got from El Paso. It was grown in a location where it could only grow roots down about 18", and probably got a lot of shade when it was young. Notice the similarity between the first few feet of it's trunk and the Riverwalk palm's. Notice also the similarity between the fronds on the two trees. My tree flowered for the first time last year and produced fruit with no other compatible palms nearby, so I doubt mine is a hybrid. I will be interested to see what the fronds look like after it reestablishes in the deep soil it is now growing in.

Here is one of the Jubaeas I got from Woodland Hills. As a small tree it was heavily shaded, and the first few feet of it's trunk looks just like the Riverwalk Jubaea's, closely spaced ranks of leaf bases and much skinnier than normal trunk. I don't have any trees to test the theory on since mine are all growing in full sun, but I would not be surprised if this type of growth resulted in the leaf bases being retained much longer than normal.

[iamjv]

Nigel - sorry for the delayed response but somehow had missed your question.... no the palm has not flowered as of yet. I too kind of figured that it would have flowered by now if it had been a hybrid, but it has not.

Martin - nice pics and yes I can see the similarities.... it'll be interesting to see if your palms characteristics alter in it's new location.

Jv

[Palmateer]

Never thought we'd see so many great pictures of the River Walk palms that my wife and I enjoyed just a few weeks ago. Great thread.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Palmateer