Hyophorbe indica

[Jonathan]

Hyophorbe indica is often touted as the hardiest species to cold in the genus.

I'm wondering how growers would compare it to some other species, say Howea forsteriana, Bangalows, Dypsis decaryi, or anything else that you think it might be similar to in its ability to withstand cold.

The other Hyophorbes are no chance for me, but I'd love to try this one if it's any chance at all.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Tyrone]

Jonathan I think it can take a degree or two of frost and it seems more cool hardy than the others, BUT, will it take a lot of cool weather. I don't know. Compared to you my winters are quite warm and they grow through my winter. I've never had frost here so I can't vouch for there frost tolerance. If I tried one in Tassie, I'd plant it against a north facing wall out of the wind, river pebbles around the base, maybe some black plastic under the pebbles that you take away in the warm weather, and try to keep it dry all winter, with maybe a splash of water on a warmish sunny day. Too much water in winter and these will die, especially if they're small.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

Also it's more tropical than all the species you mentioned. I'd put it with maybe Roystonea, Wodyetia, maybe Archontophoenix tuckeri from Cape York, although it's still different to those too. Too wet in winter and it will suffer whereas the others don't mind as much.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Jonathan]

Interesting Tyrone....do you think water around the root zone is the problem more than the crown?

My soil is basically dune sand (I'm sure you know the kind of stuff!) and drains instantly - no water would ever be lying around the roots.

I could find a nice sunny spot probably, but its the old question of whether the plant will look good, or just struggle.

I believe they grow well in parts of NZ, how about in California?

Cheers,

Jonathan

[richnorm]

Jonathan,

They have been grown to flowering size outside in Northern NZ. I know of one trunking specimen that has seen frost on its leaves and survived. They are certainly not hardy to severe cold but the odd night close to 0c doesn't seem to faze them unduly though they might need the occasional dose of H2O2. Your sandy soil will be a help. They are also one of the best palms to grow from seed and you don't need to wait a lifetime to get a plantable specimen. My largest plants are two years old and about a metre high with sturdy bases. One is opening a leaf right now in my cool shadehouse! I will make my first test planting this summer.

Roystonea are a much tougher grow here and Foxtails cannot be grown outside. Archontophoenix and Howea are an easier grow.

cheers

Richard

[Jonathan]

Thanks Richard,

your email the other day was what got me thinking about this! The Palm Bug is insidious....once it bites theres no known cure....

Last week I'd decided to stop getting more new species - this week its on for young and old - where will it end?

Palmpaedia rates it alongside Foxtails for hardiness in zone 4A-2, so your comments are encouraging, although looking at the species in Z4A-1, I wonder if that might be closer to our mark. I'm hoping I can push H. indica and P. sargentii in to the lower zone!

Cheers,

Jonathan

[peachy]

Jon

I dont know if this is of any help but all my Hyophorbes ( all 3 species) survived the big -5 freeze a couple of years ago with a bit of leaf singeing and bronzing. This winter has been cooler than normal daytime temps and none of them seem to be suffering at all. The toughest of the lot is H. verschafelltii. Nothing bothers those !!! Of that is in my little frog hollow part of SE Qld and not the wilds of Taswegia. Mine all grow in black clay too, so your sand with a bit of compost dug in should grow just about anything in the genus. On a sad note, I think the Licuala orbicularis is about to go to god, but my former mother in law went to the other place on saturday so nothing can bring me down at the moment.

Peachy

[richnorm]

Have a look here.

http://www.nzpalmandcycad.com/?pg=35&detail=33

I think the photo may have been taken at the end of winter. Certainly it doesn't convey the purple colour in the crownshaft. This is a must try for you Jonathan - along with some Pritchardias! Go on you know you want to..

cheers

R

[Jonathan]

Jon

I dont know if this is of any help but all my Hyophorbes ( all 3 species) survived the big -5 freeze a couple of years ago with a bit of leaf singeing and bronzing. This winter has been cooler than normal daytime temps and none of them seem to be suffering at all. The toughest of the lot is H. verschafelltii. Nothing bothers those !!! Of that is in my little frog hollow part of SE Qld and not the wilds of Taswegia. Mine all grow in black clay too, so your sand with a bit of compost dug in should grow just about anything in the genus. On a sad note, I think the Licuala orbicularis is about to go to god, but my former mother in law went to the other place on saturday so nothing can bring me down at the moment.

Peachy

Glad to hear you're happy Peaches, I'm sure your ex, ex-mother in law will haunt you appropriately!

Minus 5°C is good, we never get anywhere near that, but I think the big difference is daytime temps.

You might plunge to below 0°C, but then be 20°C during the day, where we might only go down to 2° but only make it back up to 12°. I think its harder to come back from 3 months of the latter than a few nights of the former, if you get my drift.

Sigh.....I know if I lived in Queensland I'd want to grow alpine plants, but sometimes I wonder what I'm doing here....

Cheers,

Jonathan

[bgl]

Don't know about the cold hardiness but I believe Hyophorbe indica is more tolerant of difficult conditions than many other palms. I was in Sweden last week, visiting my sister and her family. She and her husband were in Hawaii in March 2008 and my sister brought back a few different palm seeds to Sweden. Areca vestiaria, Socratea, Hyophorbe indica and a couple of others. She was able to germinate all of them and kept them indoors, but none of them made it through the long and dark Swedish winter (6 months ago). Except ONE species: H. indica. When I saw them last week I was impressed by how healthy they are. She has a total of six plants, two are doubles (two seeds in the pot) and two are singles, and all look great. Here are two of them - the larger one on the right is the only one that came out red, all the other five are green.

[Caryota_gigas]

Have a look here.

http://www.nzpalmandcycad.com/?pg=35&detail=33

I think the photo may have been taken at the end of winter. Certainly it doesn't convey the purple colour in the crownshaft. This is a must try for you Jonathan - along with some Pritchardias! Go on you know you want to..

cheers

R

Nope... the photo was taken in April.

[Jonathan]

Have a look here.

http://www.nzpalmandcycad.com/?pg=35&detail=33

I think the photo may have been taken at the end of winter. Certainly it doesn't convey the purple colour in the crownshaft. This is a must try for you Jonathan - along with some Pritchardias! Go on you know you want to..

cheers

R

Nope... the photo was taken in April.

Is that your palm then Mr. C. gigas, or were you just the photographer?

It looks good other than one mongy frond and a few brown tips.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Tyrone]

Jonathan, they grow in Sweden, so they'll definitely grow for you then.

Seriously though, give it a try. When they're happy they're bullets compared to the others commonly grown. Of all the Hyophorbes that's the one which has a chance for you. If you can get them powering along through the warmer months and get them all revved up, then a bit of a slow down in the winter won't be a problem. However if they can't recover from winter and can't get up to speed in the summer, they may fail in the next winter. But nothing ventured nothing gained, and I think it all comes down to how well you can design and build the appropriate microclimate.

Go on give it a try.

I know Miccles will want to plant one out in the ground in Melbourne now after reading this. He's got a foxtail going in Melbourne.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

Also Jonathan I think it's too wet in the root zone, rather than the crown which gives it problems. However in your 12C winters maybe crown water is a problem. I can't really say. My winters are a good 6 or 7C warmer and much shorter.

Just try one or more. Then you'll know.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Jonathan]

Cheers Tyrone, I think I will...I cant be beaten to the punch by that Miccles character!

[Palmə häl′ik]

I think they're from high elevations on Reunion.

I've got four that haven't spent a winter here in Brandon yet.

This winter will be their trial. I'm firm believer though.

~Ray.

[Phil]

Jonathan,

I've been growing H. indica for about 20 years. It started when I made a friend in Reunion and exchanged seeds many years ago. They are indeed a fast grower. As you know, there's the "red" and "green" form. Many discuss the advantages of each with growth, especially regarding cold. In time, both look more similar than different. From seed, one can get an eight to ten foot plant in five or six years in my locality. I agree with others that damp conditions during the winter can lead to rot. I've seen "Pink Rot" as the most common malady when this happens. It is usually fatal. The best thing to do is to get it into sun. Plants do better during the winter if they are in sun. Yes, they might burn from the cold exposure. But, overall they do the best. (obviously if you are in an inland desert area this might not apply). I had plants that withstood 25 degrees outdoors in 07 but think that may have been a bit of luck. I'd peg them at about a 27 degree plant. Below is a plant that was outdoor grown for quite a few years. The pictures were taken at the end of winter.

Phil

[Miccles]

I know Miccles will want to plant one out in the ground in Melbourne now after reading this. He's got a foxtail going in Melbourne.

Best regards

Tyrone

Hahaha..you betchya Tyrone !! Mine got cooked in the pergola during the great February heatwave. And I'd had it trucked down 1500km from Brisbane

I'd love one or two (at least 2 feet tall) I could plant out this upcoming spring.....

If you have any, do you know how they'd handle being shipped bare-rooted across the country ??

And as for you Jonathan....... well mate, you NEVER know your luck - choose the right spot and it's got some chance. The idea about the black river pebbles around the base can only help. I do that with a 4m tall foxtail, and it's survived two winters here. She's no oil painting as far as Foxtails go, but I sure havent seen any others of size around these parts.

Regards

Michael

[Dan OKeeffe]

Aside from 07. There is no winter in SD.

[Caryota_gigas]

Have a look here.

http://www.nzpalmandcycad.com/?pg=35&detail=33

I think the photo may have been taken at the end of winter. Certainly it doesn't convey the purple colour in the crownshaft. This is a must try for you Jonathan - along with some Pritchardias! Go on you know you want to..

cheers

R

Nope... the photo was taken in April.

Is that your palm then Mr. C. gigas, or were you just the photographer?

It looks good other than one mongy frond and a few brown tips.

Cheers,

Jonathan

Just the photographer. Palm is growing in fast draining soil, half an hour North of Auckland.

[Justin]

Aside from 07. There is no winter in SD.

"Besides that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

[Tyrone]

Here's one of mine from April last year. It's a bit dark in the picture, but it's kind of hard to get a good picture of it now.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Jonathan]

Looking very good Tyrone - a thing to behold!

I'm thinking that a species like this is probably a similar grow for me as your coconut is for you....ie it might surprise or it might not. If Michael can grow Foxtails in Melbourne....its worth a shot.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Tyrone]

Looking very good Tyrone - a thing to behold!

I'm thinking that a species like this is probably a similar grow for me as your coconut is for you....ie it might surprise or it might not. If Michael can grow Foxtails in Melbourne....its worth a shot.

Cheers,

Jonathan

Definitely worth a shot. Try to get one into the ground in October I reckon.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Palmə häl′ik]

NiceOne Tyrone.

[ariscott]

Here's one of mine from April last year. It's a bit dark in the picture, but it's kind of hard to get a good picture of it now.

Best regards

Tyrone

Where can I find one??

Regards, Ari

[JasonD]

Aside from 07. There is no winter in SD.

"Besides that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

LOL - having seen browned citrus, queens, Washingtonia robusta in Rancho Santa Fe that February '07, and prepping for a possible El Nino deluge this winter.

[edric]

Here's one of mine from April last year. It's a bit dark in the picture, but it's kind of hard to get a good picture of it now.

Best regards

Tyrone

Very nice, hope mine look like that someday, is that a green form, Ed

[Tyrone]

Edric, this one is the green form. I have two in the same area. Both have tried to flower many times, but the inflorescence never fully forms and drops off. They may be in just a bit too much shade which means they'll try and burst through the canopy to flower. I have some red forms that I've grown from seed and they're in the ground. I got the seed in May 05 and one is 10ft tall and already clear ringing with a 4 inch base and jet black to deep wine red in the trunk and petioles. The other one near it is not quite as large, maybe 8ft in the ground and going for it. They're in a sunnier spot and I should see flowers and fruit one day.

Ari, the nurseries up there don't stock this species????????

Best regards

Tyrone

[ariscott]

Ari, the nurseries up there don't stock this species????????

Best regards

Tyrone

I have never seen one. And I haven't seen any planted around either. Do you have any seedlings you can spare??? Nurseries are boring up here.... every now and then I find some interesting stuff.

Regards, Ari

[peachy]

What is a woman to do after seeing that photo Tyrone ? Do I stand outside screeching "Grow ya mongrel, grow " at my green H. indica or do I fill up Tojo's Revenge with petrol and hit the road on yet another nursery plundering rampage ?

Peachy

[joe_OC]

I am growing three (3) of them within ten (10) feet of each other. They were all the same size (5 gal) when they were planted. One plant is from Jungle Music, the other two came from another local nursery. The one from JM has a base that is twice the size of the other two. It grew through winter and has gotten larger and larger fronds while the other two have seemed to "shrink". Their fronds are noticeably smaller. The only conclusion that I could make is how they were grown at the nursery that will impact how robust they will be at maturity. If they are grown in a greenhouse and have never seen cold temperatures, they will not be as robust, or will need a lot of time to adapt to outdoor growing climates. Here are a couple of pics from this summer:

Jungle Music's H. indica:

Other nursery's H. indica:

Notice the smaller base and smaller emergent frond.

Joe

[Tyrone]

Joe, I agree with you. I think the one with the small leaf was growing in a bit too much shade and is now acclimatising. But, it's still not beyond the point where it will bulk up and get all stocky in your bright position. How do you find they take the sun? I find in a pot they burn easy until they're past the 8ft zone whereas in the ground they tend to take sun better and don't burn much after 6 ft tall. This is much different to bottles and spindles that you can put out in full baking sun at 6 inch height without a care. I think H indica is more of a rainforest palm than the other two, and has to emerge a bit from the canopy.

Best regards

Tyrone

[joe_OC]

Hi Tyrone, my palms are in a bright spot, but get filtered afternoon sun. I am along the coast, so it is not as intense as it is a few miles inland. I would agree with your statement that they act more like a tropical palm compared to the other two Hyophorbe.

Joe