King Palm?

[Palmə häl′ik]

Wow. I've lived in Brandon and the local Tampa Bay area for well over 30 years, and I've never once seen any exotic or rare palm out of the ordinary other than Queens, and CID's. Foxtails were introduced into the area (Brandon) around five or so years ago, so that was the most EXOTIC thing I'd seen. Tampa's just a little bit warmer than the Brandon, and East Tampa area... So that's a different story, but for Brandon, this is exotic....

Stopping by a friends to do a little electrical work yesterday, and ran up on this here palm...

Like I said, I've been in town all my life, and never once have seen anything like this... I thought I was a trend setter...

Nothing else though...

This thing is located around Kings and Bloomingdale if anyone else knows the area...

What kind of King is it?

It's under no canopy or frost protection is what blows me...

My palms will grow for sure then.

[John in Andalucia]

Ray, from what you've described it's probably a Hardy King Palm - Archontophoenix cunninghamiana (Illawarra). Reportedly hardy down to 22F.

[Creekside]

It's under no protection, but having four leaves, it could have been damaged last winter but recovered by now.

[Palmə häl′ik]

Archontophoenix cunninghamiana (Illawarra). Reportedly hardy down to 22F.

Yeah John.

I'd have to say so...

...Being fully exposed to the elements like that surprises me. (we get frost once or twice annually)

I'm going to plant more palms under my canopy!

[Walt]

The palm looks like an Archontophoenix alexandrae to me, based on the full (unbroken) crownshaft. A. cunninghamiana doesn't have a full, smooth crownshaft. Plus the color of the crownshaft, the thickness of the trunk, plus the fronds themselves look more like A. alexandrae to me.

I have five A. alexandrae and probably 25 A. cunninghamiana palms in the ground. All but a few were seriously freeze/frost damaged this past January. However, my A. alexandrae with 9 feet of trunk has made almost a complete recovery, maybe only needing 2-3 more fronds for a full canopy.

All my reference books say A. cunninghamiana are more hardy to cold than A. alexandrae. But in my case, my A. alexandrae fared slightly better than A. cunninghamiana.

My open yard low on the coldest morning of the three day cold event we had this past January was 23.5 degrees (with 27 degrees the other two nights, all back to back). I lost about six A. cunninghamiana palms (all with 1-5 feet of trunk) but lost no A. alexandrae.

So, I would say the palm in your photo stands an excellent chance of long-term survival. I believe it would take a December 1989 advective type freeze to kill it now.

I do think, though, that A. cunninghamina's leaves (foliage) handles frost slightly better than A. alexandrae.

[peachy]

As someone who sees Archies everywhere, everyday, I can state for certain that it is A. alexandrae. The trunk is a dead giveaway. A.cunninghamia have a narrower straight trunk, alexs are more of an elongated bottle shape. Mine here have no protection and have survived a couple of freak frost events that went down to minus 5C. They looked a bit frazzled but came back quite quickly. They are not as delicate as people think. The one in the picture has very prominent steps where the ring scars are. Alexs with this feature tend to be more cold hardy than the regular species. Something to do with where they originated or something. That palm hasnt been particularly well looked after either. The rings are quite close, indicating slow growth. A well fed and well watered alex will grow very quickly, if it doesnt then there is something wrong with the soil, location or whatever. Hope this clears a few things up for you.

Peachy

[Eric in Orlando]

I agree too that it is A. alexandrae. It does look like it was defoliated last winter but growing back.

Interestingly there is a nice specimen down the street from me. Its about 10ft tall and planted out in an open yard. Last winter we had 29-30F one night with heavy frost and it wasnn't damaged but Phoenix roebelenii and Strelitzia nicolai in the same yard were.

[Palmə häl′ik]

Hmmmmmm.

[Davidl]

I also say it is alexandrae and the fronds look more tattered on a king palm to me.King palm

[Davidl]

A.alexandrae on the left of the photo

[Walt]

David L: This is an Archontophoenix alexandrae I bought from you, I think about five years or so ago. It has 9 feet of trunk now (although in the photo it may not appear to). It was totally defoliated last January. It still needs to regrow five more fronds to fully replace its canopy. All totalled, I bought five alexandrae palms from you.

Note the dead bay trees (Persea barbonia) in left background. The Laurel wilt disease is killing virtually all the bay trees now in Florida. I've lost at least 25 bay trees over the past 3 months.

Also, you may recall I bought what I thought was a A. cunninghamina from you to resell to an old lady in Sebring, Florida, many years ago. You sold it to me as a A. cunninghamiana, and I sure thought it was. Some years later I met that old lady and even went to her house to look at her palm, to see how much it had grown. I was surprised to see that it was an alexandrae, not cunninghamiana. I told the lady of the mistake, but that she actually now has a more attractive palm. She was very happy about it. The photo below, of the old lady's alexandrae palm, is 2-1/2 years old. Monday I will be up in Sebring and plan to take a new photo of the old lady's palm to see how much it has grown. I will post a photo of it for you to see.

[mangolorry]

A. alexandrae is silver on the underside of the leaf. A. cunninghamiana is green on both sides.

[Palmə häl′ik]

Next time, I'll sneak out and check that bad boy for ramenta.

[Davidl]

Walt,

I think you are right because the pic looks like a A.alexandrae to me too. When you see them side by side at that age you can see they look different even more than the color of the leafs to me. Sometimes when there young they seem harder to tell the difference from looks alone to me as well. Your palm looks good and I was not aware of the those kinds of trees dying but I have noticed other plants like washingtonia dying off.

[Walt]

Walt,

I think you are right because the pic looks like a A.alexandrae to me too. When you see them side by side at that age you can see they look different even more than the color of the leafs to me. Sometimes when there young they seem harder to tell the difference from looks alone to me as well. Your palm looks good and I was not aware of the those kinds of trees dying but I have noticed other plants like washingtonia dying off.

Dave L: You may recall you gave me a bunch of A. cunninghamina seeds. I know I germinated 100 of them -- that's why I must have at least 25 of them in the ground. I gave some to friends, etc., and also lost about 25 of them to a freeze when they were smaller in pots. I had them on the ground in a low area of my property.

You must have also grown both cunninghamiana and alexandrae. Did you, as I think I got six of them from you. One for an old lady and five for me. However, I didn't know they were alexandrae at the time.

This morning I went by that old lady's house who planted the alexandrae palm she bought from you (via me). I talked to her and her husband for about 20 minutes. She told me her palm was not hurt this winter by the freezes. She lives on higher ground which slopes towards lake Jackson, about a mile to the east.

I stood next to the palm and estimate it has close to 7 feet of clear trunk now. Compare the two below photos taken 2-1/2 years apart:

[Palmə häl′ik]

I gotta plant more Kings.

[Davidl]

Walt,

Yes. I grew both and they were about the same size at that time. I gave some away myself around here as I enjoy blessing people that I know will appreciate it. That palm looks nice and for sure a A alexandrae. I have had alexandrae that have been subjected to 28 degrees for about and hour and there was frost and they came through with minor damage. I think if the palm is healthy and the cold does not last long the damage will most of the time be minimal. Of course, there are other factors like wind, rain and other factors that can change the outcome.

Ray,

I think Archontophoenix are nice looking palms and should be grown more. I think some people don't like them here because they see royals that are beautiful with a large green crown shaft and they think Arches are tattered looking. That is what I have heard people say.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Davidl

[Walt]

Walt,

Yes. I grew both and they were about the same size at that time. I gave some away myself around here as I enjoy blessing people that I know will appreciate it. That palm looks nice and for sure a A alexandrae. I have had alexandrae that have been subjected to 28 degrees for about and hour and there was frost and they came through with minor damage. I think if the palm is healthy and the cold does not last long the damage will most of the time be minimal. Of course, there are other factors like wind, rain and other factors that can change the outcome.

Ray,

I think Archontophoenix are nice looking palms and should be grown more. I think some people don't like them here because they see royals that are beautiful with a large green crown shaft and they think Arches are tattered looking. That is what I have heard people say.

Dave: I was wondering if you knew or not that some of the palms I got from you were alexandrae, as I thought I was getting all cunninghaminana (at least I think I recall that). Then, after some time I realized some of the palms were in fact alexandrae palms (although I'm happy to have gotten the alexandrae palms).

I had a double that was one alexandrae and one cunninghamiana. The alexandrae was the dominate one of the two, growing twice the size. However, the freeze this past January wound up killing the cunninghamina, while the alexandrae survived.

[Palmə häl′ik]

I'm over it.

I'm getting a 25gal CoCoNut tree this weekend.

I gotta have it.

At least say I tried...

No guts, no glory.

Real reason is the guy down the road just planted half a dozen of 'em... Mines gonna have wood though.

*NOTE TO SELF*

"Self", Plant more Kings!

[Palmə häl′ik]

That KingPalms not there anymore BTW, it may have croaked the following winter of this posted pic

[Palmə häl′ik]

......and I would never attempt another coconut grow here in Brandon.  

[Xerarch]

8 hours ago, Palmə häl′ik said:

That KingPalms not there anymore BTW, it may have croaked the following winter of this posted pic

Too bad, it was looking like a real winner, I really like A. alexandrae. 

[RedRabbit]

On February 11, 2016 at 4:18:33 AM, Palmə häl′ik said:

That KingPalms not there anymore BTW, it may have croaked the following winter of this posted pic

That's really disappointing. We had some exposed (matureish) Royals and Foxtails make it through 2010 in my area, how about over there?