cidp weevil problem - HELP

[Harry]

My CIPDS are declining. As you can see from the picture, it is a case of weevil.

What can be done to kill off the bugs and reverse the decline/rotting of my CIPDS ?

[Nigel]

My god, this wretched insect is everywhere in southern europe now , how did it spread to Cyprus ?

I fear there is little you can do once infected.

The best defence is to make your palms `invisible` to the insect by not trimming any live tissue. They are attracted to the sap from wounds, which sends them into breeding frenzies, usually after trimming of leaf bases.

If you wait until the leaf is entiirely dead to the trunk before cutting the weevil will not be attracted to the tree.

[Kostas]

Hi Harry,

I am sorry to hear of your problem but i am glad to see a member from Cyprus

You can apply a contact insecticide generously,at the apex of your palm and drench with a systemic insecticide.If your Phoenix canariensis is not already too far damaged to recover,it will eventually recover with this treatment. It will surely take some time to be perftect looking again and the holes and rotten tissue(i dont think you have much chance of rot in Cyprus,you are extreemely dry unless you water with sprayheads)wont fix,but the palm with be fine when the damage from the weevils stop.

Nigel,

I have read that too and think that it does have some ground but in Pyrgos,totally left alone P. canariensis that have now been trimmed from a decade or more,are infected all the time and die Most of the P. canariensis in Pyrgos have never been trimmed and yet they get infected and now 80% of them has it at various stages and we are not talking about small palms but about more than 10meter tall beauties

Wish you the best of luck!

-Konstantinos

[Nigel]

I have read that too and think that it does have some ground but in Pyrgos,totally left alone P. canariensis that have now been trimmed from a decade or more,are infected all the time and die Most of the P. canariensis in Pyrgos have never been trimmed and yet they get infected and now 80% of them has it at various stages and we are not talking about small palms but about more than 10meter tall beauties

Wish you the best of luck!

-Konstantinos

My god, if that is so then I think everything is doomed ........

[canelgat]

Hi Harry,

I'm not the best option to say what to do, fortunately my palms are not affected by the red weevil. But have seen many palms died near I live.

Some of that palms were in a client of me house. We were talking about what he was doing to take care about prevention the rest of his palms, and then he shown to me a box of nematodes called "exhibitline sc"

In fact I think nematodes plus imidacloprid is the best convination to do a treatment to CIDP palms. Also can be used as a prevention thing. If you can understand spanish try in "infojardin.com" the spanish forum of palms.

Nigel, as you said, triming is an atracting factor to the weevils, but when an area is so much devastating even not touched palms are infected. They are hungry and they found the palms.

[Kostas]

Exactly... I think that only in the form of an organised efford to eradicate the weevil from the cities and eventually everywhere inside our countries where it is exotic can we save our Phoenix palms without drenching with systemics annually,something totally environmentally unfriendly...(i do not own any Phoenix palm and have never used chemical pesticids personally but i know that the aware owners of Phoenix palms do,although the aware ones are really few...). A few days ago,i chose and undertook a diploma study on Rhynchophorus ferrugineus beetle in relation to palms with the aim to find a good,environmentally friendly yet successfull way to prevent it from attacking palms and even erradicate it if possible. Many aspects of its control have already been studied by other but since the only thing our goverment proposes to prevent the spread of this beetle is ''burn the affected palms'' which close to none does anyway,and there is no proposal or info on treating an ill specieman or any info on preventing it from attcking your palms,i thought it would be worth it doing a study here on methods used elsewhere such as in CR with the use of feromone traps to lower the population of one sex and so effectively lower reproduction and overall numbers and preventing them for attacking new palms as they have to first breed to lay eggs in a new palm,and also to attempt to find new methods of prevention or control.Hopefully,if i do a good enough study and have some encouraging results,i may attempt to present it to the goverment in hope of implementing nationwide the best control. For now this is only dreams though,we will see how it goes and IF i get good results at my test field studies AFTER i have found what to check......

Wish me luck!

[merrill]

Hi, Nigel:

Your last communication has required more thought on my part!

These old world weevils sound much more dangerous and damaging than our North American ones. I fear we can count on them reaching our hemisphere sooner or later! My neighbors palm seemed to be recovering from weevils in response to a modern insecticide, when he got impatient and cut it out.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[LJG]

Why so many maladies for such a noble palm?

[gyuseppe]

in southern Italy the situation is very tragic , I managed to save my phoenix canariensis, but until when? insecticide spray every 15 days on my 2 Phoenix canariensis.

[basilios]

The situation with the weevil is indeed very serious in most of Greece and as Kostas says, the government doesn't seem to know what to do about it. In coastal Athens the weevil is literally devastating the CIDP's and by now I believe 50-70% of them are affected or already dead (talking about thousands of palms). In my district the healthy palms are a small minority and I'm pretty sure that within a couple of years there will be no more canary palms in the area...It's very sad, because many of the specimens dying are big and old palms, that added very much to the general coastal and "exotic" flavour of our area of the city. This little devil is changing rapidly the whole landscape.

Edited November 16, 2009 by basilios

[Harry]

I guess it is now a race against time.

What type/ brand of insecticide should I use?

I’ve been growing these two CIDPS for the past 20 years, it would be a shame to loose them.

[Kostas]

An Imidaclopid containing systemic and a good contact insecticide should do the job

[Lowey]

Sadly the best and only truly effective cure I have found for this type of problem is the use of sometimes dangerous chemicals, in some tropical arears of Australia we have what are called Banana Weevil Borers, these look similar to your pics but are a little smaller, the cocoons they weave from the palms own fibres like the photgraphs, is a tell tail sign of these pests. Systemic insecticides are incorporated by treated plants, either by soil application taken up by the roots or by direct injection into the plant. Insects ingest the insecticide while feeding on the plants, there are many systemic insecticides but you will need to search the internet for which ones are available and registered in you Country.

Try as a starting point with this one, GOOD LUCK

Chemical Name: IMIDACLOPRID

Formula: C9H10ClN5O2

Molecular weight: 255.7

C A S Number: [138261-41-3]

Appearance: Colorless crystal

Specification: 95% Tech 70% WS 70% WP

Use: It is used to control sucking insects such as rice-, leaf- and plant hoppers, aphids, thrips and whitefly. It is also effective against soil insects, termites and some species of biting insects, such as rice water weevil and Colorado beetle but has no effect on nematodes or spider mites. .

[newtothis]

Sadly the best and only truly effective cure I have found for this type of problem is the use of sometimes dangerous chemicals, in some tropical arears of Australia we have what are called Banana Weevil Borers, these look similar to your pics but are a little smaller, the cocoons they weave from the palms own fibres like the photgraphs, is a tell tail sign of these pests. Systemic insecticides are incorporated by treated plants, either by soil application taken up by the roots or by direct injection into the plant. Insects ingest the insecticide while feeding on the plants, there are many systemic insecticides but you will need to search the internet for which ones are available and registered in you Country.

Try as a starting point with this one, GOOD LUCK

Chemical Name: IMIDACLOPRID

Formula: C9H10ClN5O2

Molecular weight: 255.7

C A S Number: [138261-41-3]

Appearance: Colorless crystal

Specification: 95% Tech 70% WS 70% WP

Use: It is used to control sucking insects such as rice-, leaf- and plant hoppers, aphids, thrips and whitefly. It is also effective against soil insects, termites and some species of biting insects, such as rice water weevil and Colorado beetle but has no effect on nematodes or spider mites. .

I've been taking notes on this issue since, like Kris, CIDP are one of my favorites. It's been posted here liquid sevin (bifenthrin) or tree saver(oxytetracycline) are other options? My question is how are these environmentally unfriendly? Are these pesticides something we can apply once a year or so as a preventative?

[Kris]

Dear Harry

Iam very sorry to hear about your CIdp.And do you have any stills of the entire palm in discussion.And by the way iam madly in love with this perticular species of phoenix.So iam reading this thread very carefully.

And i must say that more and more people from other regions grow this beautiful palm,since no one knows when a perticular region gets seriously affected with this weevil.And most say that this weevil went to europe from south asia,through egypt.

So my question is will my Cidp has any chance to grow big ? And iam living in hot-wet tropical coastal zone in south india.

Here is a still of our CIdp,One from my large collection..

Love,

kris.

[Lowey]

Sadly the best and only truly effective cure I have found for this type of problem is the use of sometimes dangerous chemicals, in some tropical arears of Australia we have what are called Banana Weevil Borers, these look similar to your pics but are a little smaller, the cocoons they weave from the palms own fibres like the photgraphs, is a tell tail sign of these pests. Systemic insecticides are incorporated by treated plants, either by soil application taken up by the roots or by direct injection into the plant. Insects ingest the insecticide while feeding on the plants, there are many systemic insecticides but you will need to search the internet for which ones are available and registered in you Country.

Try as a starting point with this one, GOOD LUCK

Chemical Name: IMIDACLOPRID

Formula: C9H10ClN5O2

Molecular weight: 255.7

C A S Number: [138261-41-3]

Appearance: Colorless crystal

Specification: 95% Tech 70% WS 70% WP

Use: It is used to control sucking insects such as rice-, leaf- and plant hoppers, aphids, thrips and whitefly. It is also effective against soil insects, termites and some species of biting insects, such as rice water weevil and Colorado beetle but has no effect on nematodes or spider mites. .

I've been taking notes on this issue since, like Kris, CIDP are one of my favorites. It's been posted here liquid sevin (bifenthrin) or tree saver(oxytetracycline) are other options? My question is how are these environmentally unfriendly? Are these pesticides something we can apply once a year or so as a preventative?

Yes they can be used as a preventative but I am unsure of the lenght of time between treatments, I have found the longer the effectiveness of the chemical, the more dangerous it is to handle/spray.You will need to search the internet for which ones are available and registered in your Country and at what strenghts they are recomened to be applied, for which pests.

These chemicals can be environmentally unfriendly because they will kill almost all the insects that eat or suck the plant and not all insects are bad for the plants ( pollination )

I dislike using these chemicals but these weevils/borers can kill large adult trees as well as smaller plants, I have just lost a very large Bismarkia and when plants are very large you can't always reach where the borers are.

[Kris]

I had seen terrefic video of this problem in youtube posted by a member here,i hope i find that thread...Since the video showed dead Cidps & pest control team working on the trunk.They were trying to kill the Weevil.But no hope for the palm ! And i presume they even huge bills after their work is over.

kris.

[Kostas]

Kris,

I am not sure if this weevil exists in your country but if it does exist,just keep a close eye on your Phoenix canariensis and it will be ok. They dont die at once,although at that small a size as yours is,it need very frequent checks as there isnt that much to eat before it kills it...In a big palm however,it takes some months to kill and damage shows before the critical point,but you must be there and ready to see it...

Lowey,I am very sorry to hear you lost a Bismarckia to this #^@#%**^# weevil.How did that happened?Didnt your Bismarckia show sign of infection? How big was it? I am growing a Bizzie here too,in an area with big weevil problems and would hate to loose it

newtothis,

The chemicals used are environmentally unfriendly,not only because they kill the pollinators but mainly because they contaminate the ground waters and the soil. They are not good but a neccessity unfortunately when you have an infected palm,who wants to loose his palm? I would strongly advise against preventative use however as you are effectively poisoning your soil and ground water. Go drink from a well then and see the effects of these chemicals.....So only use when its absolutely needed...A contact insecticid spraying is less contamination for the environment and may prevent the adults from laying eggs in your tree,although that is not sure...

[Lowey]

Kris,

I am not sure if this weevil exists in your country but if it does exist,just keep a close eye on your Phoenix canariensis and it will be ok. They dont die at once,although at that small a size as yours is,it need very frequent checks as there isnt that much to eat before it kills it...In a big palm however,it takes some months to kill and damage shows before the critical point,but you must be there and ready to see it...

Lowey,I am very sorry to hear you lost a Bismarckia to this #^@#%**^# weevil.How did that happened?Didnt your Bismarckia show sign of infection? How big was it? I am growing a Bizzie here too,in an area with big weevil problems and would hate to loose it

newtothis,

The chemicals used are environmentally unfriendly,not only because they kill the pollinators but mainly because they contaminate the ground waters and the soil. They are not good but a neccessity unfortunately when you have an infected palm,who wants to loose his palm? I would strongly advise against preventative use however as you are effectively poisoning your soil and ground water. Go drink from a well then and see the effects of these chemicals.....So only use when its absolutely needed...A contact insecticid spraying is less contamination for the environment and may prevent the adults from laying eggs in your tree,although that is not sure...

Kostas,

My bismarckia was 15 years old and has six metres of trunk (20') the borers have entered the leaf bases of the plant in the last year and have attacked the trunk itself, by the time I was aware of the damage they were doing from inside the trunk it was too late,

The plant itself was still green and robust, but because there is so much damage to the trunk the entire top has just broken off just below the crown, I had the same thing happen to a large Hyophorbe Lagenicaulis, the borers ate the entire contents of the trunk accept for a small 30mm layer under the bark.

The tree was still receiving enough nutrients and water to look good and then one day the trunk just collapsed under its own weight and died immediately.

I check carefully, the trunks and crownsharfts of all my palms regularly, but some are now too tall to check properly so I sometimes use a systemic insecterside as a precuation ( there are no wells nearby)

[newtothis]

I definately do not want to harm the environment. I have maybe 6" of native topsoil then solid limestone underneath. I had to hire workers with a jackhammer to make a hole to plant the CIDPs. I was told the roots will still find their way through cracks in the limestone and thrive. Though I AM over the aquifer recharge zone, if there is a well nearby it would have to have been hammered out.

Also, when I first planted them, a rhino beetle found one and was tunneling underneath the base at night, you could see little pieces of root in the dirt. Every morning I filled the hole back with dirt and the next morning it would be back. Finally one night I went hunting and saw the beetle and put a teaspoon of the ortho pest granules you use for your yard and watered it in, then refilled the hole with dirt. Next morning no more holes. Every time I look at that plant I wonder if there is larva in there now and its frustrating.

So the only way to SEE damage is to remove leaf bases? THen spray a contact (not systemic) inside the bored hole to be environmentally friendly?

[Kev Spence]

This pest is also in Portugal and the damage it does is unreal...... we spotted some infected palms whilst there on holiday and there are lots of pictures and links on our "Growing on the Edge" forum shold you guys wish to check it out.

There is also some good information from some landscapers that have to deal with the problem.

Link HERE

This was a fab circle of Phoenix but they are all doomed as one by one they will all be finished off.

[Kris]

Dear Spencer

thanks for the visuals and link & also for dropping by after a long time...

thanks & love,

kris

[Kostas]

Thank you very much for your reply Lowey

Its very frustrating to have damage occuring that cant be seen...Wasnt your Bismarckia producing leafs any smaller than the previous? If not,this gets really frustrating and difficult to check 6 meters of trunk is a huge tree to loose

I hope you dont loose any more from the weevils...What weevil species do you have there? Here we have Rhynchophorus ferrugineus.

newtothis,

Unfortunately you cannot treat an infected palm with a contact insecticid,you need a systemic as otherwise you cannot possibly get them all in their mile long holes drilled in he trunk A contact insecticid just helps kill some immediately and this is why its good to use it along with a systemic at the treatment,to immediately stop as much damage as possible. A contact insecticide may also be somewhat effective as a preventative as it may kill the adults that try to bore holes to lay their eggs...

Removing the leaf bases does not help too much seeing the damage i think but examining the leaf bases on the tree or after removing them,may help as there will be a hole somewhere if its infected but it also isnt neccessary that you will find it...But as the infestation starts getting bad,you can surely find holes on the leaf bases and most of the time,fibre wooven coccoons too.

Kev,that sucks but unfortunately the situation here is not better in some places...

[Lowey]

Kostas,

The one we have is Cosmopolites Sordidus it is commonly known as banana weevil borer, it causes lots of damage to banana and sugarcane crops here if not controlled, it is smaller than the one you have to deal with and perhaps goes undetected because of that, but the damage it can do is severe,they also seem to love Chambeyronia's.

[Harry]

This is the damage caused in the last week since first detecting the bug.

Total collapse of crown for the Male CIDP, female CIDP is still holding on.

What a shame, grow a tree for twenty years just to see it wilt down in 10 days from a bug attack.

Thanks for the replies

[Harry]

Female CIDP still holding on.

[Kostas]

I am sorry for your male CIPD I would treat him anyway and hope for the best althout it may be too late. But you should either treat it or burn it anyway so i would go with the treatment solution

Watch out the female Phoenix canariensis too,it seems to have the syptoms so a treating it immediately would be wise

[Kris]

Dear Harry

Iam really very sorry for your Phoneix... And those stills are very painful sight for a CIDP lover like me.

kris

[merrill]

Gentlemen: My strong impression is that oxytetracycline will have little if any effect on palm weevils. The imidochloprid strikes me as relatively safe.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[Kris]

Any updates ?

[gyuseppe]

first has destroyed almost all males canariensis, now are dying all female canariensis, but now it's cold, insect begin to look for new palms in spring.

Sorry my English

[Harry]

Female is fighting for survival. Male CIDP is dead.

[Kris]

Hai,

this just a bump ! and here are few videos on CIDP's...

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Kris

[Got Palms]

Sorry about your losses!