Germinating 'old' palm seeds

[richnorm]

Any more progress reports? I just got 3/3 ancient Brahea decumbens to sprout. I couldn't locate the embryo but it still did the trick. I'm not celebrating just yet though as there's quite a bit of white mould on the site of injury!

cheers

Richard

[John in Andalucia]

After one year and 4 months of waiting, my first Brahea armata sp. "clara" seed, de-lidded yesterday, is showing signs of germinating. These need to be ready for spring, so I'm doing them all. 12.30 pm - I wonder how long this will take.

Richard, I have about 20/30 of these Brahea sp. "clara" germinated successfully. This topic inspired a similar thread on the EPS forum, and it's proving to be a very popular!

[FRITO]

My Brahea clara ' icy blue' germinated after delidding, however I only delided 5 of them, the other 5 germinated also after 15 months. so the experiment results are not as strong.

I read an article on promoting germination on needle palm seed, scarification and removing the lid cover the endosperm reported 98% germination on this species acording to the article.

I scrapped 5 of the seeds yesterday, I will let you know how this technique works on needle palm seeds.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

20 days after shaving off the very delicate and thin lid...

[John in Andalucia]

Final tally on the Brahea sp. Clara. I got 24 out of 47 de-lidded seeds to produce a sprout. The rest developed a green fungus, never producing more than a couple of millimetres of emerging sinker root. The ones that sprouted successfully also bore the same fungus, but despite clinging to the cotyledonary petiole at the point where it emerges from the seed, it hasn't caused any harm, or impeded growth. This reinforces my belief that healthy seeds can overcome fungus, which consumes the oldest, and least vigorous seeds.

The fungus in question is a powdery, "duck egg green" colour, seen all too often on seeds left in boxes long after the rest have germinated. It eventually covers the entire seed and is not unique to any particular species, in my experience. The Brahea seed batch used in this experiment was 16 months old, previously not having produced a single, germinated seed, so I'm happy with the results.

[maghi]

i ask myself, is the de-lidded method the same as scarification.this methode works very good.sometimes in combination with stratification. maghi.

[migacebo]

It work¡

Two old seeds of Attalea funifera has germinated after to use this method.

These are the pics

Thanks John

[palmsOrl]

Very, very interesting. I de-lidded 8 C. loriae seeds the other night and I'm wondering if I did it correctly. With a razor, I carefully removed the thin outer shell on the side of the seed that was formerly attached to the infructescence, exposing the whitish endosperm. At the very end of the seed, in the center, there is a tiny pore which I'm assuming leads to the embryo. Based on this, does it sound like I de-lidded the seeds correctly? Can anybody go into greater detail with regards to locating the embryo in palm seeds? Thanks in advance!

-Michael

[Trópico]

For Cyrtostachys, the flatter pole is where the embryo pops, at the center. You did it well. So far no germinators?

[palmsOrl]

Good to know I'm on the right track. Today I noticed a bit of white mold growing on the endosperm, after only two days. Thus, I added a bit of daconil to the distilled H2O I've been using and the mold has dissapeared. I haven't yet had any signs of germination from even one of the seeds and this was starting to concern me. I really hope this works for my seeds! How are your palms Tropico? Do you have them all protected from this cold snap? Any success stories with your seeds?

-Michael

[Trópico]

Good to know I'm on the right track. Today I noticed a bit of white mold growing on the endosperm, after only two days. Thus, I added a bit of daconil to the distilled H2O I've been using and the mold has dissapeared. I haven't yet had any signs of germination from even one of the seeds and this was starting to concern me. I really hope this works for my seeds! How are your palms Tropico? Do you have them all protected from this cold snap? Any success stories with your seeds?

-Michael

My potted palms will stay indoors probably into next week. I have left a few just outside but under a roof which should protect them if the temps stay above 30 or so. I have a large Spindle palm in the ground which is showing some dark green damage on the leaves. A Dypsis cabadae is also in the ground with no damage observed so far. These are covered. The rest are hardy enough to survive on their own.

All my seeds are done germinating. All of them did except Syagrus sancona which is a bummer. But I'm pretty happy otherwise. Sorry to hear about yours not doing a thing, even after de-lidding. By the time I see any sign of mold, I lose hope on a seed.

[GTClover]

(This thread is a continuation of the topic I started here on November11th 2009.)

Perhaps you're just curious to know if your seeds are still viable? Maybeyou're fed up, monitoring small batches of seeds over such a long period oftime, or worried that the embryos may be losing their viability, as you feedthem either too much or too little moisture. Or perhaps like me, you want toinduce germination as you head towards winter, so that you can raise a batch ofseedlings in spring.

Hello! I'm new to this forum but I've been following this discussion closely (thank you John and Kris) because I embarked on a palm seed germination project to combat the effects of living in VT in the winter! I was "bit" by the Palm bug quite a while ago after visiting Florida. The disease took hold slowly but I'm pretty far gone now. Anyway, I've germinated a few small batches of seeds collected in the wild with some success, but in December I thought it would be fun to start afew varieties that could replace the ones that will eventually outgrow my house. Here's what I've got Chamaedorea elegans, Licuala grandis, Kerriodoxa elegans, Chamaedorea metallica,Chambeyronia macrocarpa. None have germinated yet (though I also started Cycas panzhihuaensis from which I've had a few sprouts). They are now in boxes in vermiculite at~90deg F. They were started ~12/20/09and of course I told myself to be patient! But now I am worried about the Kerriodoxa elegans, and Licuala grandis because they have been plagued by fungus. I've managed to keep them clean with daily doses of 3% H2O2 and changing the media, but I've lost a couple of the Licuala. Needless to say I thought I'd try this method on a couple of the K elegans. These seeds resemble little brains and though I can locate the "Hillum" there isn't any obvious germ pore. Three have a tiny nub generally located more or less opposite the Hillum, but several don't have anything that looks promising (and I'm not really sure the nub is where the pore is). Can anyone help? Being a bench scientist (not plant, though plants are my primary avocation), I don't have any qualms about "experimenting", but I'd like to know I'm making the "incision" in the correct location! If this issuccessful I may try it on a couple of the Licuala and Chambeyronia so advice on those would also be helpful.

Thanks very much,

Susan

[John in Andalucia]

(This thread is a continuation of the topic I started here on November11th 2009.)

Perhaps you're just curious to know if your seeds are still viable? Maybeyou're fed up, monitoring small batches of seeds over such a long period oftime, or worried that the embryos may be losing their viability, as you feedthem either too much or too little moisture. Or perhaps like me, you want toinduce germination as you head towards winter, so that you can raise a batch ofseedlings in spring.

Hello! I'm new to this forum but I've been following this discussion closely (thank you John and Kris) because I embarked on a palm seed germination project to combat the effects of living in VT in the winter! I was "bit" by the Palm bug quite a while ago after visiting Florida. The disease took hold slowly but I'm pretty far gone now. Anyway, I've germinated a few small batches of seeds collected in the wild with some success, but in December I thought it would be fun to start afew varieties that could replace the ones that will eventually outgrow my house. Here's what I've got Chamaedorea elegans, Licuala grandis, Kerriodoxa elegans, Chamaedorea metallica,Chambeyronia macrocarpa. None have germinated yet (though I also started Cycas panzhihuaensis from which I've had a few sprouts). They are now in boxes in vermiculite at~90deg F. They were started ~12/20/09and of course I told myself to be patient! But now I am worried about the Kerriodoxa elegans, and Licuala grandis because they have been plagued by fungus. I've managed to keep them clean with daily doses of 3% H2O2 and changing the media, but I've lost a couple of the Licuala. Needless to say I thought I'd try this method on a couple of the K elegans. These seeds resemble little brains and though I can locate the "Hillum" there isn't any obvious germ pore. Three have a tiny nub generally located more or less opposite the Hillum, but several don't have anything that looks promising (and I'm not really sure the nub is where the pore is). Can anyone help? Being a bench scientist (not plant, though plants are my primary avocation), I don't have any qualms about "experimenting", but I'd like to know I'm making the "incision" in the correct location! If this issuccessful I may try it on a couple of the Licuala and Chambeyronia so advice on those would also be helpful.

Thanks very much,

Susan

Hello Susan,

Welcome to PalmTalk! You sounds as smitten by palms as any of us, so looking forward to hearing more from you! It's way past my bedtime so I'll be quick and just say, leave the Chambeyronia alone! If it's the odd one or two left over from a batch of germinated seeds then fine, but C.macrocarpa in my experience, are very obedient and will sprout, with 80-100% germination rate.

[GTClover]

(This thread is a continuation of the topic I started here on November11th 2009.)

Perhaps you're just curious to know if your seeds are still viable? Maybeyou're fed up, monitoring small batches of seeds over such a long period oftime, or worried that the embryos may be losing their viability, as you feedthem either too much or too little moisture. Or perhaps like me, you want toinduce germination as you head towards winter, so that you can raise a batch ofseedlings in spring.

Hello! I'm new to this forum but I've been following this discussion closely (thank you John and Kris) because I embarked on a palm seed germination project to combat the effects of living in VT in the winter! I was "bit" by the Palm bug quite a while ago after visiting Florida. The disease took hold slowly but I'm pretty far gone now. Anyway, I've germinated a few small batches of seeds collected in the wild with some success, but in December I thought it would be fun to start afew varieties that could replace the ones that will eventually outgrow my house. Here's what I've got Chamaedorea elegans, Licuala grandis, Kerriodoxa elegans, Chamaedorea metallica,Chambeyronia macrocarpa. None have germinated yet (though I also started Cycas panzhihuaensis from which I've had a few sprouts). They are now in boxes in vermiculite at~90deg F. They were started ~12/20/09and of course I told myself to be patient! But now I am worried about the Kerriodoxa elegans, and Licuala grandis because they have been plagued by fungus. I've managed to keep them clean with daily doses of 3% H2O2 and changing the media, but I've lost a couple of the Licuala. Needless to say I thought I'd try this method on a couple of the K elegans. These seeds resemble little brains and though I can locate the "Hillum" there isn't any obvious germ pore. Three have a tiny nub generally located more or less opposite the Hillum, but several don't have anything that looks promising (and I'm not really sure the nub is where the pore is). Can anyone help? Being a bench scientist (not plant, though plants are my primary avocation), I don't have any qualms about "experimenting", but I'd like to know I'm making the "incision" in the correct location! If this issuccessful I may try it on a couple of the Licuala and Chambeyronia so advice on those would also be helpful.

Thanks very much,

Susan

Hello Susan,

Welcome to PalmTalk! You sounds as smitten by palms as any of us, so looking forward to hearing more from you! It's way past my bedtime so I'll be quick and just say, leave the Chambeyronia alone! If it's the odd one or two left over from a batch of germinated seeds then fine, but C.macrocarpa in my experience, are very obedient and will sprout, with 80-100% germination rate.

Thanks John, that's good to know. The Chambeyronias have had a bit of trial. They were mailed from Hawaii during a cold snap and spent ~20hrs at 5-10deg F. I figured they were toast, but they passed the float test and Jeff suggested I go ahead with germination and if the were mush in a month he'd send some new ones. Well 2mo later they are still solid and still pass the float test. No other activity, but also hardly any mold so I'll leave them be. The Kerriodoxa are also still solid & still sink as well, but as I said are plagued by mold. All my seeds experience the same conditions so I'm not sure why some are more prone to mold. I thought it might be the surface crevasses, but the Chambeyronias have those too.

Susan

[The Germinator]

I would love to see pics and instructions to learn myself how to do that. Thanks for posting.

Thanks, David. Working alone, it's difficult to take photos of the de-lidding process, but I will try and do a video clip, and also post a few still images from it.

Hide the camera in the closet, they'll never know?

[Trópico]

Thanks John, that's good to know. The Chambeyronias have had a bit of trial. They were mailed from Hawaii during a cold snap and spent ~20hrs at 5-10deg F. I figured they were toast, but they passed the float test and Jeff suggested I go ahead with germination and if the were mush in a month he'd send some new ones. Well 2mo later they are still solid and still pass the float test. No other activity, but also hardly any mold so I'll leave them be. The Kerriodoxa are also still solid & still sink as well, but as I said are plagued by mold. All my seeds experience the same conditions so I'm not sure why some are more prone to mold. I thought it might be the surface crevasses, but the Chambeyronias have those too.

Susan

[GTClover]

Hi Frank, I'm afraid you are correct about the L. grandis. 2 just crumbed when I tried to clean them; one more I didn't have the heart to condemn yet. But though I'm quite new at this the Kerriodoxa are firm and healthy looking when I lightly brush the surface with a soft toothbrush dipped in 3% peroxide and they sink in water. I only have 5 seeds so I don't really want to 'sacrifice' one. On the other hand I'm willing to cut into one in such a way that I might find it non-viable, if there is a possibility of stimulating germination on the chance that it is viable. I just as you say if I "know where the embryo is located at". But I gather that's not an easy thing to know. I've looked a a number of diagrams of seeds so I was hoping there was some way of telling by some surface feature where the germ pore would be.

Learning more every day!

Susan

[BS Man about Palms]

Any updates?

Was there a progress link from here?

Got some old seeds to try.. and some new ones too.

[Trópico]

My latest two delids have been Calyptrogyne costatifrons. I tried two seeds but the third one did not delid well. So I'm leaving the rest alone for now. I'm trying Attalea rostrata but the embryo is very very deeply buried and very hard to access, unlike A. colenda. Also I'm trying Areca triandra but no activity yet. I also tried K. oliviformis but could not find the embryo.