Lipstick Palms

[Justin P]

I just purchased 28 7 gallon Lipstick Palms. They are all in pretty good to very good health, many pushing 4' and ready to be potted up to 15 gallon. I am planning on putting them in an area where they have overhead protection over the winter. They will remain potted, receive water 6 times a day for one or two minutes. I will try placing a couple humidifiers that I have on hand in the middle of the clump, tiki torches outside the clump of plants and a lamp hanging above the plants emitting heat. They will be protected from north / northwestern winds.

Does this sound like a good plan? Is fungicide absolutely required? If so, what type / where should I buy it?

Am I crazy for buying 28 Lipstick palms?

Thank you all for your continued assistance!

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

I don't know, Justin. Seems like too much effort, but sounds like what you're doing COULD work!

Paul

[Succulentum]

Am I crazy for buying 28 Lipstick palms?

yes you are but it so good !! :)

jean-bernard

[John in Andalucia]

I'll be crazy if you don't post a photo!

[rozpalm]

Justin I sure hope it works out for you. I have heard people say that if you keep the roots really wet, that they will take much colder temps then they might otherwise. As for what fungicide, I really don't know. Last year I had two that got left out one night where the temps got down to 38 and both developed the fungus within a month or so afterward. I can tell you that once the fungus appears it takes the plant out quickly and I found nothing that seemed to stop it. I would definitely pre-treat them. Like everyone else, I would love to see pictures of them when you are done.

[Jeff Searle]

Justin,

I think you already know that your taking a huge risk growing this palm where you live. That's the bottom line. You can spray and drench all the fungicide in the world, but the bottom line is, your going to get much colder where you live compared to some of us down here, and it won't really help much, if any.

The second thing to remember is, these palms will do much better and have a much better chance of surviving if planted in the ground, vs. kept in pots. A big difference. And as you know, every winter is different, every cold front will be different from the next. Your really pushing it, only because how far north you live. The cold weather will definitely wear these palms down over time. By keeping them in pots, you must protect them at all cost.

Good luck, and keep us posted. I've spent many a hours through the wee hours of the night watching the temp's. over the years. After a few times, it starts to get real old.

Jeff

[palmislandRandy]

Other than was already recommended, I've seen growers keep Lipsticks in pans with a few inches of water. The main issue would be the temperature & associated fungus Randy

[palmislandRandy]

Any one recommend a fungicide good on Lipsticks??? Randy

[JD in the OC]

Plant them all in the ground, water often, spray leaves with antitranspirant or Wiltpruf, and cross your fingers!

[epicure3]

I hope it works out for you but it sounds a little dicey. Even the ones I've seen from S. Fla don't really look all that good. Crazy? Aren't all palm folks?

[Kris]

Where are the visuals...

And by the way as 007 Jeff has pointed,they do not fair well in pots i have lost 2 big potted specimes of this palm and another one too seem to decline slowely living in a pot !

And here is a visual of that palm as of now ! By the way iam living in a Hot Wet tropical & high humid zone with maximum coastal influence..

Love,

kris

[Moose]

I love Justin's attitude. Yes he is definitely zone pushing. If we don't have "crazy" people like Justin we will not find a "cold" tolerant Crytrostachys renda variant. When you get one to seed, palm enthusiasts will beat a path to your door for the "cold" tolerant lipstick palm seed. Good luck with your experiment - I hope you are close to the coast!

Ron.

[kahili]

I am not that familiar with all the fungi that palms are susceptible, although I am slowly learning some of them, so this is only an educated guess. But if you want a fungicide suggestion, then I would use Subdue, Truban or Aliette for pythium, although all 3 will also treat pythopthora as well. Both of these fungi are considered water molds and attack the roots in the soil. Pythium will occur much more in the cooler weather, whereas phytopthora is more active in the summer when the temps are consistently in the higher 80's and above.

Truban and Aliette are going to be less expensive than Subdue, but you don't need much and you only apply it every 30 days, and I think you can get the generic form of Truban and Aliette from John Deere/Lesco, if they are in your area.

[Davidl]

I gave up on these even in a pot after I lost them just below 40 degrees F on a couple nights. Mine stayed watered and died the death. Good luck If you don't go below 40 degrees F you have a chance.

[waykoolplantz]

Justin...how cold it get there ??

Upon Ryan's suggestion...we put a few at the ponds edge...which havent shown any damage with our past two relatively mild winters

[palmislandRandy]

Seems like the key to survival is the root temperature! Inground palm roots are obviously insulated.

[Scott Cohen]

Plant them, and flood the area when it gets cold. that might help

[Justin P]

Justin...how cold it get there ??

Upon Ryan's suggestion...we put a few at the ponds edge...which havent shown any damage with our past two relatively mild winters

We regularly receive very mild frost, mostly on the car windshields. I have the palms on the south side of the house. They will be protected from the north / north east winds. They also have a roof over them, which I will hang strong lights from. The roof will prevent convective cooling, the lights I imagine will give me 3 - 4 degrees extra warmth. I will have the palms on independent drip lines, so the root balls will not dry out. Fungicide is a given. I will also place tiki torches in and among them and run a couple humidifers in and among them as well.

Worst comes to worst, I will bring them in the house.

Best Regards,

Justin Parkkonen

[MattyB]

Regular frosts? Yikes.

[Manolitus]

Justin,

Jeff Searle pretty much nailed it. Nothing to add.

Manny

[DoomsDave]

Regular frosts? Yikes.

DOUBLE YIKES.

[Frank in Vero]

Justin you are a brave soul... I wish you the best of luck.

[DoomsDave]

Frosts?

Triple yikes.

[Palmə häl′ik]

Maybe Justin knows something we don't...

Grow palms grow!

[Jeff Searle]

Regular frost every winter, hmmm.

Let me ask you this, because this is a real concern for some growers that run small heaters or electric pumps that water throughout the night for frost protection.....and all of a sudden you loose electric at say 1:30 am. That's where the staying up at all hours "watching the temps" comes in as I mentioned earlier. Plan "B" ??

Jeff

[TikiRick]

I have killed more of these than I care to mention.

I had one in a terracotta pot that was very health immediately prior to a cold front. It was too large, too wet, and too heavy to move into the house, so I just put it over on its side buried it with blankets and hoped for the best.

By morning....lipstick pudding.

There are just too many other beautiful palms that are not the effort of these..IMO.

[kahili]

This doesn't sound too good, but since you already have the money invested in them, I would suggest taking some more concrete measures to make sure they don't die. Without going back and rereading your plans, it sounds like you will have them under a overhang on the south (?) side of the house? Why not put up some poles/uprights at the corners of the overhanging roof and build yourself a cold frame with a heavy duty plastic that will contain the heat from the heaters better at night, and plan on using the heat any time the temps go below a certain temp (whatever everyone thinks is going to be warm enough). If you have the heater on, and the electricity goes out in the middle of the night, it will still retain warm air, at least warmer than without the plastic/heat, and you can also build a smaller frame within the plastic frame that you can cover with blankets and that will help at night. You will probably have to uncover the blankets in the am, and also open up the plastic in the am when it warms up-ideally. Its a lot of work that i am suggesting (at least the setup), but it may be your only chance to protect your investment. You could also set up a thermostat alarm of some kind to let you know if the electricity goes out when you are asleep, and then move them inside the house as plan B?

Also, I should add, that if you are going to use a systemic fungicide, it should be done before there are any signs of a fungus, as these are better used as preventatives. Once you get pythium, its pretty much a goner for that plant. Your worry then, is that it spreads to the other plants, in which you have to isolate it from the others. Good luck! God knows crazier things have been done by members of this forum, myself included, although probably not for a profit, but just zone pushing etc.

[Davidl]

I would bring them indoors on the cold nights. I don't think water will save them myself and as Jeff said the heater goes out or you always have the chance of getting them to hot. These need a 10b+ to do well but I hope you show us wrong.Good luck

[rozpalm]

Let me offer at least one bit of inspiration. A good friend of mine in Lake Worth has a large clump growing in the court yard of his motel/party complex. He stopped covering it two years ago after it got too big and he too old to care. Its still thriving after the three nasty cold fronts we had last year, so maybe there is hope, but then again we are talking a low of 35 but no frost.

If you are close to the water, especially a big body of water, that is a huge plus too. I get a 3deg push from the small acre lake behind my house. Of course that is if there is a northwest wind.

Of course you could always buy a big outdoor construction site diesel radiant heater ( http://www.heatershop.com/diesel_infrared_...val6_kbe5l.html ) and get an instant 15-20deg push. Also, you would have no dependence on the power company supplying continuous power during the night.

[palmislandRandy]

Let me offer at least one bit of inspiration. A good friend of mine in Lake Worth has a large clump growing in the court yard of his motel/party complex. He stopped covering it two years ago after it got too big and he too old to care. Its still thriving after the three nasty cold fronts we had last year, so maybe there is hope, but then again we are talking a low of 35 but no frost.

If you are close to the water, especially a big body of water, that is a huge plus too. I get a 3deg push from the small acre lake behind my house. Of course that is if there is a northwest wind.

Of course you could always buy a big outdoor construction site diesel radiant heater ( http://www.heatershop.com/diesel_infrared_...val6_kbe5l.html ) and get an instant 15-20deg push. Also, you would have no dependence on the power company supplying continuous power during the night.

I just checked the price on these diesel radiant heaters & their already outa stock! Probably all on their way to California

[palmsOrl]

Similar to Kahili's idea, you can purchase an aluminum (or other structural material) hobbyist greenhouse for a few hundred bucks. I've even seem some that could be compared to transparent square camping tents for alot less than this (check ebay). I have an 8' x 10' hobby greenhouse that I keep my Cyrtostachys renda in from roughly Nov. 1 to Apr. 1, though it is getting too heavy for me to lift on my own (6' tall), so it waited until Thanksgiving Day this year

Until Jan. of 2008, I only turned on the heater for cold nights (below 50 F) so it experienced cool winter lows regularly. Surely no coincidence, it grew extremely, extremely slowly for the first 4 1/2 years until I got the idea to keep it as hot (or at times even hotter) as it stays in the summer. This means running the space heater 24/7 even on 80 F days (the greenhouse is not in full sun however) I also keep the bottom 2" of the pot in a tray of water.

It has since become a flawless specimen, fitting the image I've always had in my head of what a Cyrtostachys renda should look like. Note that the humidity in my greenhouse must stay pretty low being heated continuously by the space heater and with no humidifier. It seems like as long as the palm is in an essentially windless environment (no dessication), with high heat, and adequate water at the roots, that it does not mind the low humidity at all. It sounds like you have invested plenty of $ into these palms to make similar measures worthwhile, I am glad I have put the effort forth! Now to see about keeping this new 8' Cyrtostachys glauca healthy, all good so far. Good luck and keep us posted.

-Michael

[Moose]

For those up in Justin's neck of the woods, I would recommend Areca vestiara "maroon leaf form". More cold tolerant and a great looking palm. Not the same coloring on the crownshaft but a reasonable substitute in my opinion. Less of a water pig as well.

[Zeeth]

Similar to Kahili's idea, you can purchase an aluminum (or other structural material) hobbyist greenhouse for a few hundred bucks. I've even seem some that could be compared to transparent square camping tents for alot less than this (check ebay). I have an 8' x 10' hobby greenhouse that I keep my Cyrtostachys renda in from roughly Nov. 1 to Apr. 1, though it is getting too heavy for me to lift on my own (6' tall), so it waited until Thanksgiving Day this year

Until Jan. of 2008, I only turned on the heater for cold nights (below 50 F) so it experienced cool winter lows regularly. Surely no coincidence, it grew extremely, extremely slowly for the first 4 1/2 years until I got the idea to keep it as hot (or at times even hotter) as it stays in the summer. This means running the space heater 24/7 even on 80 F days (the greenhouse is not in full sun however) I also keep the bottom 2" of the pot in a tray of water.

It has since become a flawless specimen, fitting the image I've always had in my head of what a Cyrtostachys renda should look like. Note that the humidity in my greenhouse must stay pretty low being heated continuously by the space heater and with no humidifier. It seems like as long as the palm is in an essentially windless environment (no dessication), with high heat, and adequate water at the roots, that it does not mind the low humidity at all. It sounds like you have invested plenty of $ into these palms to make similar measures worthwhile, I am glad I have put the effort forth! Now to see about keeping this new 8' Cyrtostachys glauca healthy, all good so far. Good luck and keep us posted.

-Michael

That's very interesting! That may be an experiment I intend to do sometime in the future. I would also be interested in seeing if one could put a coconut in there during fall, winter, and spring and raise the temp up to summer temps for a year or 2 to push out faster growth to get it established sooner.

[OldNed]

Here's a Lipstick I got in May of '03. It was nearly 5 feet tall then. Today, it's a little over 8 feet (Coke can for size).

Take it into the garage every time temp. lower than 40ºF-45ºF is predicted....water it almost every day. Moved it into more sun in July...speeded up its growth. I've never had any problems with fungus.

I live about 4 miles inland from Cocoa Beach...no freeze at my house since Christmas of 1989.

[Justin P]

Here's a Lipstick I got in May of '03. It was nearly 5 feet tall then. Today, it's a little over 8 feet (Coke can for size).

Take it into the garage every time temp. lower than 40ºF-45ºF is predicted....water it almost every day. Moved it into more sun in July...speeded up its growth. I've never had any problems with fungus.

I live about 4 miles inland from Cocoa Beach...no freeze at my house since Christmas of 1989.

What would you say the temps in your garage are? Do you heat the garage? Living near the ocean, do you think the salt air may contribute to limiting the fungus?

Thank you (and everyone) for the input.

[OldNed]

Garage is attached so temp. probably hasn't gone below 50º. Four miles from the ocean is too far for salt air to be an issue.

[Really full garden]

I cannot comment on cold tolerance but can report that this is a very rarely grown palm here on the Pacific coast of Guatemala.The temperature here NEVER drops below 64F and when it does it is just a couple hours.Our daytime highs are always in the upper 80s and low 90s.So why is this palm not commonly grown? Well it needs constant water and an acidic soil.The best specimens are grown in full sun and receive regular applications of fertilser.

I do beleive that this is the perfect candidate for growing in a temporary greenhouse for those living in mild climates.

Under optimum conditions it is slow and if a trunk outgrows its winter home it can be cut out

This is growing in my beach garden - 300m from the ocean.

[JD in the OC]

Moose knuckle, For the record, we have terrible luck with Areca vestiaria 'Maroon'. They grow them fine in Miami, but here in Ft. Myers, they need the PERFECT spot to grow. Have killed several of them in pots. (Some have called them the "Poor Man's Lipstick Palm") To be honest, our Lipstick palms do better than our A. vestiaria maroon's. Lipstick's are suprisingly drought tolerant as long as the temps are warm too...

JD

[Justin P]

I should have mentioned earlier on that besides for the ability to build an outdoor microclimate, I also have an empty two car garage.

I have decided I will purchase two sheets of plywood and put wheels on each corner. I will purchase water trays (with at least a 2" lip) for each potted palm. I will spray the palms with a fungicide (purchased high end stuff) this weekend. I will put the palms on the playwood in their water trays, water them and leave them in the sun all day, then push the whole sheet of plywood containing about 10 palms into the garage at night (cool nights only, of course). This is much easier than moving one by one, and I am confident that the garage is going to be a much warmer climate than even a well constructed outdoor micro-climate. As a matter of fact, I have many different electrical outlets which I can plug bright lights / heat lamps into. I can also leave my garage door open and allow the heat from the inside of my house to make its way to the garage. I should not have to worry about these palms seeing below 50, drying out, or getting fungus (assuming the fungucide works).

What do you think? Seems to be the easiest route.

Edited December 3, 2009 by Justin P

[amazon exotics]

Justin, You sure must love these palms to go through so much work. Mine has been in the ground for a couple of years and I through a blanket over it when it dips into the 30's. So far, so good. I think you have a battle ahead. Hope you didn't pay much for them. Good Luck!