Butia capitata x Parajubaea cocoides

[JD in the OC]

Very pretty cold-hardy cocosoid hybrids. I don't think they'll replace good `ol Cocos nucifera, but they're certainly perfect for colder climates!

[ryjohn]

Alberto-- are the peteoles on your trees armed at all near the trunk?

[PalmGuyWC]

Alberto-- are the peteoles on your trees armed at all near the trunk?

Ryjohn,

There are no thorns on the petioles of my B X P, just heavy excelsa where thorns might be. See Alberto's photo on 66. The hybrid actually seems to have more fiber at the base of the petioles than a pure P. cocoides.

Dick

[ryjohn]

Alberto-- are the peteoles on your trees armed at all near the trunk?

Ryjohn,

There are no thorns on the petioles of my B X P, just heavy excelsa where thorns might be. See Alberto's photo on 66. The hybrid actually seems to have more fiber at the base of the petioles than a pure P. cocoides.

Dick

Thanks Dick. I've got one about a decade old from Jungle Music that I suspect is not a hybrid. The peteole's are armed and it's blooming for the first time. The only difference is that it does appear more "open" than my other Butias, with leggier fronts that are still highly recurved. Pics are below

[Nigel]

Ryan, You will probably have your answer very soon. If the male flowers have 6 stamens I reckon you can conclude its a butia.

Parajubaea has 13-18.

Maybe Dick can confirm how many stamens are presnt on his hybrid, but I would be fairly sure the hybrid would have more than 6.

[PalmGuyWC]

Ryan, You will probably have your answer very soon. If the male flowers have 6 stamens I reckon you can conclude its a butia.

Parajubaea has 13-18.

Maybe Dick can confirm how many stamens are presnt on his hybrid, but I would be fairly sure the hybrid would have more than 6.

Nigel,

The hybrid has from 6 to 8 stamens. We did a count on several flowers. Unfortunately, they don't produce much pollen, and what they do produce doesn't seem to be very viable.

Dick

[Alberto]

Ryjohn,I also suspect yours isn´t a BxP...

First íf it is a decade ago you planted it it must at least showed some trunk. And yours really show spines on the petioles.........

Take a look at the first photo of this thread and the one below ,that is 2 years and 10 months of growth....This hybrid grows super fast!!!

[Alberto]

Ryjohn,I also suspect yours isn´t a BxP...

First íf it is a decade ago you planted it it must at least showed some trunk. And yours really show spines on the petioles.........

Take a look at the first photo of this thread and the one below ,that is 2 years and 10 months of growth....This hybrid grows super fast!!!

[Alberto]

Only fibers (excelsa), not any sign of spines.

[Alberto]

Near the speer (apex) there is like a ´´web´´of fibers ataching one petiole to another.

[Alberto]

Near the speer (apex) there is like a ´´web´´of fibers ataching one petiole to another.

[Alberto]

Characteristic is also the flatter fronds compared to a Butia.

First pic : BxP. ( leaflets form an open angle )

Second pic:Butia eriospatha (leaflets form a small angle : V )

Third pic: P.sunkha (flat)

[ryjohn]

Characteristic is also the flatter fronds compared to a Butia.

First pic : BxP. ( open angle )

Second pic:Butia eriospatha (low angle V)

Third pic: P.sunkha (flat)

The flowers are open today, so I can report that they have six stamens. The peteoles are heavily armed and the "V" formed by the leaflets on one side of the frond versus the other is a fairly small angle, except on the older bottom fronds. I don't see the "spider web" that Alberto points out on his and the frond color is much more silvery than his. Don't be fooled by the size because this palm spent the first six years or so of it's life growing from a seedling to a five gallon potted plant up in the Northeast USA. It has gone from that size to it's current size in four years of being planted out at my place here in northern Louisiana.

Edited August 13, 2011 by ryjohn

[Alberto]

Three and halve years later counting from the first pic of this topic

This 2 BxP are the first and 3th of thr first pic.. The second (and other two) were transplanted

[buccaneers37]

I just planted my BxPJ in the ground today. It is pictured here with my JxS when I first got them in June of last year from Patric.I haven't figured out where to plant the JxS yet.

Seeing the growth rate on here convinced me it was time to get it in the ground. I can't wait until it starts taking off.

[Alberto]

You will see B x P is a rocket once in the ground

[Alberto]

You will see B x P is a rocket once in the ground

[SanDimas]

^BUMP....

^{Any updated info or pics??}

[Tropicdoc]

Bump. Would love to see pics! Just got 2 of these and I am very excited about this hybrid.

[gyuseppe]

in the forum of palms European society, they say that one hybrid of this in Europe, in reality it is only butia

[gyuseppe]

I hope that you in USA, don't misunderstand, I only just one hybrid , not all

Edited June 7, 2014 by gyuseppe

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Mine went from a 4" to an enormous 15g, it shows all the traits of parajubaea except the leaves seem to have the thickness of butia. If I were to assign speeds to palms, and the average palm would grow at 65MPH, this one is easily in the 130MPH range. It's hands down the fastest palm I own.

[Ben in Norcal]

Is this the 15g shot, Axel? Hard to scale the picture. It's interesting because it doesn't really look like it's gone pinnate yet. I got a 3-5ish gallon size Butia paraguayensis x PC from Patric recently, and it's throwing pinnate fronds now. I wonder if the paraguayensis is making mine look different at a smaller size?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Yes, ben, that's a 15 gallon! When I stand next to it the top of the fronds come up to my chin. They are behaving exactly like cocoides - they don't go pinnate until a good six to eight feet long. Yours could either be taking more after the butia, or the paraguayensis is actually different. I'd like to try one.

I am very, very happy with this specimen, it looks like it's going to be superb with a lot of cocoides look to it.

Can you post a picture of yours?

[Tropicdoc]

Hmmmm, mine are like Ben's. (BP x PC) Not including pot they are about 3 feet tall and partially pinnate. I hope they are not butia. I also would hope they would lean a little to the parajubaea side. I have noticed that pics of Dick Douglas palm look more like parajubaea, whereas Alberto's palm lean a little more to butia.

[Tropicdoc]

Axel, is yours Butia odorata or paraguayensis? Where did you get it? My 2 are from Patrick.

[Ben in Norcal]

Here is mine, Axel. Please bear with me if this doesn't work - first time trying to upload an image here. Anyway, hopefully you can see while it has a couple of older strap leaves, it has now gone pinnate at a little better than waist high.

[Tropicdoc]

If Axel's leans to parajub, it would be interesting to see if the fronds are flatter, instead of the "V" from the butia lineage (IMO more tropical looking). Ben, what do your fronds look like, are they in a flat plane or a "V"

[Tropicdoc]

Look back at post #1. Who's juvenile looks more like Alberto's? I think Axel's. That means the paraguayensis hybrid goes pinnate at a shorter height. This would make since being that paraguayensis is a dwarf species. I have had concerns that the paraguayensis hybrid would not trunk..... thoughts?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Ben, mine came from patric, it's definitely different from yours, taking much more after the cocoides. On cocoides the leaves go pinnate very late.

Here are some photos of one of my cocoides seedlings to illustrate this point:

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Axel, is yours Butia odorata or paraguayensis? Where did you get it? My 2 are from Patrick.

Mine has Odorata as the female. Your right one definitely looks like a cross with cocoides, seems paraguayensis results in a slightly different palm, I wouldn't worry about it. If it goes pinnate sooner I suspect it's also hardier.

[Ben in Norcal]

If Axel's leans to parajub, it would be interesting to see if the fronds are flatter, instead of the "V" from the butia lineage (IMO more tropical looking). Ben, what do your fronds look like, are they in a flat plane or a "V"

I had a look at my fronds today and they are in a flat plane, or pretty near. So I guess more parajub like in that sense.

[Tropicdoc]

It will be interesting to watch these grow up along with axels and compare growth rates. I'm not sure why Patrick switched from odorata to paraguayensis

[Ben in Norcal]

It will be interesting to watch these grow up along with axels and compare growth rates. I'm not sure why Patrick switched from odorata to paraguayensis

It may have to do with what plants he has access too, since most don't appear to be on his property. For example, he might not have the regularity of access to Dick D.'s old garden that he used to. There is a stand of plants he is hybridizing right around the corner from me...I think the paraguayensis might be there.

[Tropicdoc]

Does that paraguayensis have a trunk?

[Ben in Norcal]

I'll have to go look, but not much. Patric is doing his hybridizing work over there just a couple feet off the ground. That might be another factor.

[Tropicdoc]

Yeah, if I could pollinate standing on the ground vs standing on a ladder, and still fetch the same amount of money for the results.... that's a no brainer! I just hope my hybrid palm eventually trunks. If you go over there, get a pic of the baby momma and post it.

[Ben in Norcal]

Yeah, last time I was there I snapped pics of the big P. tor tor, JxS, and BxPC...but not the paraguayensis

[ghar41]

Does that paraguayensis have a trunk?

Bp X Pc does have a trunk; here is my small plant. Also has wider leaflets so far...looks like it will be a nice looking plant.

Both Bp X Pc and Bc X Pc had some spear issues for me this year after two weeks of 25F-31F. Both have pushed out with the help of H2O2.

[Tropicdoc]

Ouch on the spear pull. I won't let mine see freezing until taller than my 8 foot greenhouse and then will have a few lights or heat cable near the spear