When to remove freeze damaged fronds

[war_eagle]

I have two P. roebelenii triples that got fried pretty bad from our 2.5 inches of snow and 26F on Dec 4 here in Pearland (south of Houston). The fronds range from crispy light brown to just bronzed but are still green near the trunks. Everything I've read says to leave the damaged fronds on until the spring so as to provide the growing point some protection. It would be much, much easier for me to protect these trees (wrap with xmas lights + blanket + tarp) in our next freeze event if I removed all the fried fronds. Is it okay to go ahead and remove the damaged fronds if I am going to provide the tree with protection for the rest of the winter?

Here is a picture of one of the triples.

[war_eagle]

Here is a picture from underneath.

[Alberto]

If you will protect it now (wrap with xmas lights + blanket + tarp) I think its easier to do this without all that dry leaves. If not protect at all, it´s better to leave the palm with the dry stuff.

[Ciczi in Sweden]

Poor P. roebelenii's. I can only imagine what mine would look like if I had left it outside in zone 7. I'm digging up mine every autumn and put it inside in a temperature of 17 degrees Celsius and ad some growing lights. Thanks to that manoeuvre it is doing just fine.

I hope your roebeleniis recover well.

Ciczi

[epicure3]

That's a tough call. I would probably do it if it made protection easier. However, I would only remove fronds that are completely dead and leave any that are remotely green. The nutrients in the fronds will help the palm come back when it starts to regrow.

[kahili]

At this point, I think you have to save the growing points of the palm, and to do that, you need to wrap the palms well. What I can see of the leaves-they are not going to be doing any photosynthesizing for the palm, so cut them off and then you can get the blankets etc closer and tighter to the growing points. If I were me-I would cut them off, but if you don't-then tie them up around the middle as tight as you can and leave them that way until it gets warmer. Any palm that I have had to cover so far, I have removed the blankets, but I am leaving the fronds tied up until spring.

These reports of roebeleniis withstanding all this cold surprises me-exactly (thereabouts) how cold can they take if they are wrapped well, but no lights?

[newtothis]

thats how mine look, green underneath and purple on top

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Hmmmm... Looks like it got a bit colder than 26f.

We had a low here of 25f... mine wasnt even touched.

Jeff

[war_eagle]

Hmmmm... Looks like it got a bit colder than 26f.

We had a low here of 25f... mine wasnt even touched.

Jeff

I had a little over 9 hours below 32 with an ultimate low of 26.1F in my yard. Usually pygmies can deal with a dry or very light frost at 26.1F, but the problem we had here was the 3 inches of snow and ice that fell onto the plants and then froze overnight. These pygmies see several frosty nights in the 28F-38F range every year with minimal burning (less than 10%) and grow out of it very quickly in spring and summer. I believe pygmies are "trunk hardy" into to the lower 20s possibly, but their foliage is not very frost/ice hardy at all.

[Kathryn]

I've found that heavy frost, heavy snow and any amount of ice damages roebelenii leaves. One of my roebelenii palms got damaged in January 2002 when the temperature got down to 22ºF (-5.5ºC) with frost/ice. It got damaged again in 2004 when it snowed on Christmas day - the temperature only got down to 32ºF (0ºC), but didn't warm up during the day so the snow stayed through the next day. We had a light snow one morning in early winter last year, but the temperature was in the 40's (7ºC) and the snow was gone by noon - the palm wasn't damaged.

I cut the Jan 2002 damaged leaves in March 2002 and the Dec 2004 damaged leaves in Feb 2005. It looked really stupid, but I left as much green leaves as I could to help the palm recover.

Here are some pictures from April 2002 and a year later in 2003.

[Kathryn]

And here are some pictures showing the damaged leaves in February 2005 before and after trimming and a few months later in August 2005.

[Kathryn]

Here it is on December 11, 2008 with the snow that melted in a few hours. There was no damage to the leaves from this snow.

[Kathryn]

Here it is today.

In the past, I usually protected this palm by tying up the leaves like a reverse umbrella, covering it with a sheet and adding a light under the sheet when the temperature was predicted to get below 32ºF. Now, I only plan to protect it if heavy frost, heavy snow, ice or temperatures in the low 20’s are predicted.

Based on this experience, I don’t think it matters when you trim the damaged leaves. As other have stated, wet cold damages the leaves and somewhere around 20ºF will probably kill the palm. I would remove the damaged leaves and protect the remaining green part from any more ice, snow, or frost.

[Davidl]

Remove the brown leave the green. The brown is dead and cant help your palm anyways.

[war_eagle]

Thank you for all the responses. I went ahead and cut off all of the browned fronds, which pretty much left several unopened spears and a few other fronds on each trunk. They are now wrapped with xmas lights (older mini-lights type) and I will wrap with blankets and tarps if necessary the remainder of the winter. I'll post some follow up pictures in the spring, good or bad.

Kathryn, you have a beautiful P. roebelenii. These two triples that I have were the first palm trees that I ever bought and I have since realized that I much prefer the single trunk specimens like yours to the multi-trunks that are commonly found at nurseries. Is that a triple L. chinensis in the background behind your pygmy? It looks tremendous for 7 years growth!

[rsproule]

In cases like this if you don't have to wrap the palm (there's no reason to unless you are expecting temps are below 25F) I would leave the dead fronds on (unless they are rotting). I think they provide a natural protective canopy that will keep the palm heart & trunk slightly warmer. My Pygmy palm is real wimpy. It gets leaf damage every year when temps dip below 27F. However, it's never had any trunk damage and it's seen temps as low as 22F. Luckly, it comes back very quickly in the spring.

Ryan (zone 9B, inland NorCal)

[Rafael]

My roebeleni, potted, spent from March till October outdoors, and from then on, bringed it indoors. It is better than ever.

In a month and a half will return outside.

[Moose]

Here it is today.

In the past, I usually protected this palm by tying up the leaves like a reverse umbrella, covering it with a sheet and adding a light under the sheet when the temperature was predicted to get below 32ºF. Now, I only plan to protect it if heavy frost, heavy snow, ice or temperatures in the low 20's are predicted.

Based on this experience, I don't think it matters when you trim the damaged leaves. As other have stated, wet cold damages the leaves and somewhere around 20ºF will probably kill the palm. I would remove the damaged leaves and protect the remaining green part from any more ice, snow, or frost.

I would follow Kathryn's advice. That would be my course of action if I were you.

[Kathryn]

Here's how my roebelenii spent a week during the cold weather.

I removed the cover a two days ago. Some of the leaves are dark, which could indicate damage. Only time will tell.

I'll take a picture at lunch to post.

[newtothis]

I've been meaning to post a pic of someone here who cut ALL the leaves off a tripple, all thats left is a tripple trunk!

[war_eagle]

Here it is today.

In the past, I usually protected this palm by tying up the leaves like a reverse umbrella, covering it with a sheet and adding a light under the sheet when the temperature was predicted to get below 32ºF. Now, I only plan to protect it if heavy frost, heavy snow, ice or temperatures in the low 20's are predicted.

Based on this experience, I don't think it matters when you trim the damaged leaves. As other have stated, wet cold damages the leaves and somewhere around 20ºF will probably kill the palm. I would remove the damaged leaves and protect the remaining green part from any more ice, snow, or frost.

I would follow Kathryn's advice. That would be my course of action if I were you.

I did exactly that. I removed all the brown fronds, which was all but several unopened spears. I covered all the green parts with xmas lights and sheets/towels. They are still green after consecutive nights of 26.2, 19.8, 25.8, and 23.3. As an experiment, and part of my plan to have less stuff to cover in my yard, I left two other slightly smaller pygmies untrimmed and uncovered and there is no sign of green left whatsoever. Time will tell, but I think they can survive these temps with some protection and they put on fronds very quickly when it warms up here so I'm hoping for a speedy recovery. If not, something more hardy will take their place.

[DoomsDave]

If you will protect it now (wrap with xmas lights + blanket + tarp) I think its easier to do this without all that dry leaves. If not protect at all, it´s better to leave the palm with the dry stuff.

I concur, but don't forget to protect.

Let us know what happens. Those were lovely palms, and, I hope, will be lovely again.

[DoomsDave]

Here it is today.

In the past, I usually protected this palm by tying up the leaves like a reverse umbrella, covering it with a sheet and adding a light under the sheet when the temperature was predicted to get below 32ºF. Now, I only plan to protect it if heavy frost, heavy snow, ice or temperatures in the low 20’s are predicted.

Based on this experience, I don’t think it matters when you trim the damaged leaves. As other have stated, wet cold damages the leaves and somewhere around 20ºF will probably kill the palm. I would remove the damaged leaves and protect the remaining green part from any more ice, snow, or frost.

You (and your robey) are TROUPERS, dear!

I'm impressed! We take robeys so much for granted here.

Glad to know yours is making it, and hopefully, War Eagle's too!

[newtothis]

I've been meaning to post a pic of someone here who cut ALL the leaves off a tripple, all thats left is a tripple trunk!

Well I haven't taken a pic but today I did the same to my tripple. All the spears in each trunk pulled, so I cut all the dead ones off, pulled the spears, and poured hydrogen peroxide down the 3 holes. Is it a waste of time, a gonner?

[Kathryn]

Is it a waste of time, a gonner?

How cold did you get?

[NBTX11]

Is it a waste of time, a gonner?

How cold did you get?

San Antonio got down to around 16F one night, and another night at 21F. A lot of palms look terrible right now.

Edited January 17, 2010 by syersj

[Kathryn]

Is it a waste of time, a gonner?

How cold did you get?

San Antonio got down to around 16F one night, and another night at 21F. A lot of palms look terrible right now.

16ºF doesn't sound good for a roebelenii.

[newtothis]

Thanks sysersj for responding, 16F sounds about right but I didn't keep track of how long, JV probably has that info. So if I don't see growth by...when?...should I dig the whole thing out? Good news the sabals didn't blink and the CIDP's are a little discolored and thinner fronds but hanging in there

[war_eagle]

Here is an update on my pygmies. First the unfortunate, albeit completely expected, news. Both smaller pygmies (1 foot trunk, 3 foot overall) died. The fronds turned black and collapsed and spears pulled and rotted. Now the better news. It looks like the two larger triples are going to be just fine. Just as a recap, after the freak snow in December I trimmed all but a few (maybe 6-8) vertical fronds around the spears. I used xmas lights and wrapped from about a foot below the growing point to about a foot above the growing point. During the horrible week in early Jan when we had about a week of nights below freezing including 4 nights of 26.2, 19.8, 25.8, and 23.3 I wrapped the areas that had xmas lights with old beach towels. The areas that were wrapped stayed green all winter and they have now begun to push some new fronds.

Here's one of the triples.

[war_eagle]

Oops, I meant to hit preview post not add new post ...

Here's the other triple.

One of the trunks is flowering ....