Livistona

[swolf]

I've been doing some research on Livistona. I'm not a fan of sharp spines and thorns -- expecially when the palm is NOT self-cleaning. Most Livistona are pretty heavily armed, but I understand at least the Chinese fan (L. Chinensis) is self-cleaning. There's very little else on the web about other hardy varieties -- self-cleaning or not?

Hardy Livistona appear to include Decora/Decipiens and Mariae (and similar Rigida) among others. I think I read that Decora/Decipiens is also self-cleaning. Any additional information would be very appreciated!

Steve

St. Augustine, FL

[paulgila]

interesting question,but i cant help you since all my livistona are still small & i just cut the brown leaves off.

wont be long before a few get overhead,tho! ask again in about 5 years.

[Tala]

none of them are truly self cleaning, that trick is reserved for crownshaft species, but once they reach a certain overall hgt. the leaf bases begin to fall off, with or without the frond attached. Typically this happens around 8-10 ft of woody stem. This is most likely a variable trait, perhaps environmentally influenced as well.. Below are a few common sps here.

First up is Liv australis, this poor guy has struggled mightily in the high n' dry sandy soil. Not quite 6 ft of wood, I think it's old age has helped it drop some.

The 2nd pic is Liv decora, you will see the bases are just beginning to loosen on their own - roof line is 9 ft for guideline. The very top of the lower bases will fall soon without help.

The 3rd is Liv mariae (or rigida), not sure until I can send inflor. off to Dowe. That palm starting dropping its own leaves again around 8-10 ft. Recently trimmed, you can see newer bases under the canopy still, but they will fall.

Last is neighbor's stripped down Liv chinensis, these normally hold fronds much longer than their Aussie counterparts - so does Liv saribus and rotundifolia, but no pics of them right now.

[Really full garden]

For me L.saribus is the least self cleaning.They hold on for years unless manually removed.The best is L.rotundifolia,as they get taller the rain and wind do a great job at exposing a beautiful ringed trunk.

[PalmatierMeg]

Our 3 L. decoras keep a death grip on every frond, so we have to trim them periodically. Maybe by the time they are 20' tall the sheer weight of each frond will cause the lower ones to fall off.

[swolf]

Thanks for all the replies so far, especially Dave's commentary with photos. I'm surprised that the real-world experience reported here for both Chinensis and Decora/Decipiens refutes the reported self-cleaning status of these two palms. Maybe in their later years they're more self-cleaning, but the owner of small sized palms had better be prepared to face down the thorns/teeth for the foreseeable future.

Dave, your Mariae is attractive in form and color (despite being past the 'red' glory years). From the photo it doesn't appear to have much armor. How would you describe it on that front?

Steve

St. Augustine FL

Our 3 L. decoras keep a death grip on every frond, so we have to trim them periodically. Maybe by the time they are 20' tall the sheer weight of each frond will cause the lower ones to fall off.

[Tala]

The mariae/rigida palms both have spines (I have a 2nd palm purchased as rigida, the one in above pic was pur. as mariae). They are alike in size & shape to decora, smallish but very sharp prickles, slightly angled just enough to tear your skin ... Most of the Australian sps I've seen seem to possess similar armor on their petioles; altho' on both victoriae and inermis the spines appear to be no more than small bumps so far, barely felt as you run a fingertip down them - but both are very young palms here. On the aforementioned palms the teeth do not run the entire petiole. On rotundifolia they do. Also the rotundifolia as well as chinensis group hold spines that are more pronounced, often comparable to shark teeth. The spines on saribus and speciosa/jenkinsiana resemble the shape of the traditional Thai dagger, the kris.

One oddity, some Liv palms only the juveniles have spines - chocolatina notable for this, have observed chinensis do the same, esp. when grown in deep shade. Not sure why - perhaps an evolutionary protection for the leaves while young, then they lose the spines to encourage fruit/seed dispersal??? Not sure on this. Its quite a variable genus of palms, surely there are plenty of other characteristics I've failed to see.

[Really full garden]

This is my L.rotundifolia.It is far too tall to be trimmed.I love the smooth,almost black trunk.

[Dr. George]

This is my L.rotundifolia.It is far too tall to be trimmed.I love the smooth,almost black trunk.

That is a great looking palm! How old is it? - gmp

[PalmGuyWC]

I only have 2 Livistonias, decora and australis. Mine are about 35 years old and about 40' high. About this time of the year with some winter rains and a couple of storms with strong winds all of the old brown fronds come down almost at once. I'd say they are both self cleaning when they get older, but need hand trimming when they are young. Best to wear leather gloves when picking up the old fronds or they will stick you.

Dick

[Really full garden]

This is my L.rotundifolia.It is far too tall to be trimmed.I love the smooth,almost black trunk.

That is a great looking palm! How old is it? - gmp

It is a grouping of three and were planted about 15 years ago.They make spectacular potted plants when young.

[Dr. George]

This is my L.rotundifolia.It is far too tall to be trimmed.I love the smooth,almost black trunk.

That is a great looking palm! How old is it? - gmp

It is a grouping of three and were planted about 15 years ago.They make spectacular potted plants when young.

Thanks - Just convinces me that we've got to track down a couple of these - gmp

[Really full garden]

This is my L.rotundifolia.It is far too tall to be trimmed.I love the smooth,almost black trunk.

That is a great looking palm! How old is it? - gmp

It is a grouping of three and were planted about 15 years ago.They make spectacular potted plants when young.

Thanks - Just convinces me that we've got to track down a couple of these - gmp

This photo shows the black trunk - sorry its horizontal/They are a little slow to get going and then take off.

[Dr. George]

This is my L.rotundifolia.It is far too tall to be trimmed.I love the smooth,almost black trunk.

That is a great looking palm! How old is it? - gmp

It is a grouping of three and were planted about 15 years ago.They make spectacular potted plants when young.

Thanks - Just convinces me that we've got to track down a couple of these - gmp

This photo shows the black trunk - sorry its horizontal/They are a little slow to get going and then take off.

Whoa ... that is nice! - gmp

[Tala]

Scott that stem is a knockout, beauty - here a local hotel brought up some rotundifolia from so. Fl. and trimmed them up, they have at least 10 ft of wood last time I saw them - but the wood was more maroon/reddish than black. Is the color change? something they get as they age? My mariae/rigida palms have a reddish stem after being newly trimmed.

[Really full garden]

Scott that stem is a knockout, beauty - here a local hotel brought up some rotundifolia from so. Fl. and trimmed them up, they have at least 10 ft of wood last time I saw them - but the wood was more maroon/reddish than black. Is the color change? something they get as they age? My mariae/rigida palms have a reddish stem after being newly trimmed.

Dave, they do vary,another in the same grouping is more brownish but still has those great looking rings.

[Jaydeebee]

I've been doing some research on Livistona. I'm not a fan of sharp spines and thorns -- expecially when the palm is NOT self-cleaning. Most Livistona are pretty heavily armed, but I understand at least the Chinese fan (L. Chinensis) is self-cleaning. There's very little else on the web about other hardy varieties -- self-cleaning or not?

Hardy Livistona appear to include Decora/Decipiens and Mariae (and similar Rigida) among others. I think I read that Decora/Decipiens is also self-cleaning. Any additional information would be very appreciated!

Steve

St. Augustine, FL

[PalmGuyWC]

Steve,

For your area you can't go wrong with L. decora. Not only is it self cleaning (when it gets taller), it's also one of the most beautiful with its droopy fronds, and the fronds glisten in the sunlight. It has a reddish trunk and is the most cold hardy of the Livistonas.

Dick

[swolf]

Thanks Dick. Yes, Decora and Mariae are two I'd like to try. In a central florida palm forum there was positive mention of a Mariae variation called nasmophylla. Formerly L. mariae var. occidentalis. I think Dave and Christian Faulkner were on that thread.

Short of mail order I have no idea where to buy these. If anyone knows a central or SW Florida source for Livistona, please post or PM. Thanks.

Steve

St. Augustine FL

Steve,

For your area you can't go wrong with L. decora. Not only is it self cleaning (when it gets taller), it's also one of the most beautiful with its droopy fronds, and the fronds glisten in the sunlight. It has a reddish trunk and is the most cold hardy of the Livistonas.

Dick

[tikitiki]

I have three L. decora all with atleast 8 feet of wood and within 6 feet of each other. One is copletely self cleaning even from an early age. The fronds and bases fall before they are fully brown. One I have to trim the dead fronds off and wait a few months for the base to be pulled. The third would not give up its bases at all no matter what until this year it is the tallest at about 10 foot of wood. Now it is self cleaning but will not give up the bottoom couple of feet. I can't pull them off even a little. My L. Mariae held on to its bases as well. It acted just like the third decora. I wish this palm would hold onto its bases as though it looks better with them on. L. decora are easily found. What size are you looking for?

[Tala]

Thanks Dick. Yes, Decora and Mariae are two I'd like to try. In a central florida palm forum there was positive mention of a Mariae variation called nasmophylla. Formerly L. mariae var. occidentalis. I think Dave and Christian Faulkner were on that thread.

Short of mail order I have no idea where to buy these. If anyone knows a central or SW Florida source for Livistona, please post or PM. Thanks.

Steve

St. Augustine FL

Steve - the nasmophylla palms are not very cold hardy, down to 28f at most, then damage, and they can't take any frost (unlike decora, saribus, rigida, etc.). The few I grew did not have the characteristic maroon colored leaves while young either. They look alot diff. from rigida & mariae when adult, very wispy fronds. I'm surprised that Dodd even lumped them in together at that time. Dowe has split the three apart. I might have a pic somewhere, will look.

[swolf]

Thanks Dave -- you saved me time 'barking up the wrong (palm) tree'. I need cold-hardy. And your experience makes sense because as I recall it the area nasmophylla comes from isn't near mariae or rigida and was further north (which Down Under = warmer). So I think rigida is what I should be looking for (takes frost cold better than mariae?).

Tom (Tikitiki), I'm probably looking for smallish sized plants, but it would be nice if I could plant them right away. So probably 3/5 gallon size of decora and rigida. I guess I could ask my local palms place to look into them, but it's always best to be able to pick them yourself (especially where color varies).

Steve

St. Augustine, FL

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[Kris]

This is our L.R,Its around 10 to 12 years old i think.And we manaully clean the dried drooping leaves & fronds..

And it has not put out fruits & Seeds till this day ?

Love,

kris

[osideterry]

Kris - This photo is almost dreamlike. Nice!

[Zeeth]

While on the topic of Livistonas, which one is the fastest growing?

[Al in Kona]

Livistona speciosa is the only Livistona I have in the ground at this point in time. While I especially like the large shinny green leaves on this palm, it does have large black saw teeth armor on the petiole and is not self cleaning (at least while young).See pics of my plant below. It is often referred to as "Mountain serdang" and is native to Thailand and Malaysia. Medium slow growth rate for me.

Livistona robinsoniana from the Philippines is reported to be very beautiful and with long unarmed petioles. Is anyone growing it?

[Kris]

Kris - This photo is almost dreamlike. Nice!

Thanks Dear Terry

I do have many stills of that liv.Roundifolia taken from various angles,i will post them in forthcoming threads on liv.Roundifolia.

Lots of love,

kris

[Tala]

Al - love your palm, prob. one of my top 5 Liv's - the leaves eventually are huge, one can easily hide under during rain. I have to shelter mine somewhat, the leaves are like paper (very similar feel to Kerriodoxa), and tear easily in winds. Mine can take cold temps into 27f or so but no frost - that burns them bad. Yeah not a fast grower here as well.

Dowe's recent mono sunk robinsoniana into synonymy w/ rotundifolia. The minor fruit characters that originally separated them were deemed too variable. He did however keep the near identical speciosa and jenkinsiana apart, kinda surprised me.

here's my jenkinsiana