Copernicia baileyana

[Lowey]

I planted this Copernicia baileyana about ten years ago, it goes ok for a while and then it dies back and just when I think it's had it, it comes back with new growth as shown in the pics but it has never grown more than about 300mm or 12 inches high. ( note the old leaves )

Any suggestions other than putting it out of its misery ?, which I won't do.

[Davidl]

I don't know for sure the problem but it sounds like it does not like its location. It could be a dirt problem, lack of nutrients in the soil or other but if it was me I would check the soil for contaminates. Hopefully you will get more answers I would like to hear them myself.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Davidl

[ariscott]

For some reason, mine does the same thing. You will see that the next leaves will be bigger... They are slow to begin with, so when they have a set back, they are EXTREMELY slow...especially to us who are used to fast growing things...

Regards, Ari

[Really full garden]

I dont think they like a really high rainfall climate.I have grown these several times and the seedlings always die during our wet season.

[Manolitus]

I dont think they like a really high rainfall climate.I have grown these several times and the seedlings always die during our wet season.

I have to agree with this post. I think that your rain fall may be too much. They are endemic to Cuba, and Cuba is borderline tropical ( during our recent cold snap, Havana experienced temp in the 40's F! ). Its certainly not HARD CORE tropical like many other caribbean islands. I also hear that these palms come from areas on the island that experience seasons of drought.

That would be my guess. I doubt its the soil because here in Miami our soil is horrible, and they do very well. I am sure that there are some other South Florida guys who know far more than me who may chime in.

Manny

[BS Man about Palms]

I know they spend a lot of energy making roots. Any gophers at your place?

[Kris]

Dear Bruce

In my observation all the copernica's love hot wet tropical climate like i have here in south india.

And i water my copernica alba & C.Hospita daily.

And the temperatures here are 85 to 95 degrees farenheat on average throughout the year.

And the most funny thing is that i see every one complain that the copernicas are slow growers but to my knowledge the above to varities that we are growing is growing like crazy and C.Alba has blown out my plastic pot and the roots have come out.

So i personally feel it your weather that is what is containing the grouth rate & its health.

love,

kris

[Mr Cycad]

Don't they grow in lowland conditions (swamps) that are flooded annually in habitat? I don't think water is the issue. I think it's a pH thing? Our soils over here are acidic (I know my pH is 5.5 where I grow my stuff), whereas in Cuba in habitat they would be growing in alkaline soil, much like the native zamia's to that area? I'd try locally amended the soil Bruce...

[MattyB]

Here's what I would do (and keep in mind I'm no Copernicia expert):

1. Kill the grass and get it far away from the palm.

2. Test the soil pH and get it up to neutral or slightly alkaline

3. Mulch & Fertilize with a well balanced fertilizer

4. Apply a systemic fungicide at regular intervals for a year, in case it's a reoccuring attack.

5. Make sure it's in full all day sun,ie cut back any trees that create shade.

6. Water it infrequently but extremely deep when you do. Surface waterings are not going to phase this puppy. Those roots are down there. And since they can tolerate drying out, let it do so, moderately, between waterings so that it dosen't harbor fungus.

Also, keep in mind, you may just have a dud.

[ariscott]

But they are that slow... I have 2, and I hardly see any difference in the 2 years I have them. They are in FULL SUN, no grass around them and mulched, getting fed twice a year. I think what I did wrong was that I actually planted them a bit too deep. What about you??

Do they require different condition to C. macroglossa?? I know that Bruce's one look good!!

Regards, Ari

[sick1166]

water water water they are right they love water one on the rim of my pond during april may june almost under water and has out grown the one 8-10 ft away on higher ground by twice the size. sandy soil alkaline and great fertilizer.pics coming soon

[Peter Pacific]

It's a Copernicia baileyana...it is growing, you just don't know it! Good luck, Peter

[Lowey]

Thank you all for the advice, the soil where the plant is would be acidic, the area used to be a sugar cane farm , I will add some calcium and magnesium in an effort to increase the alkalinity.

Bill, we don't got gophers is Aus unless you count the big ones that hop

Ari I don't think I planted it too deep, but you never know

Thanks Peter

[Wai`anae Steve]

Can't say what might be wrong. I have one in the ground for 11 years. Here is a pic from last summer.

[Lowey]

Can't say what might be wrong. I have one in the ground for 11 years. Here is a pic from last summer.

Wow, thats the sort of growth I had expected from mine in the ten years its been in the ground I understood they were slow even in the tropics, but I have actually had the spear pull out three times and it has re-shot out of the side of the old trunk, which was amazing once, let alone three times

I have applied lime and calcium as well as magnesium, lets see how we go, thanks again.

[Davidl]

Lowey your palm might be slightly deep but copernicia's will grow slightly deeper than some palms and will pull themselves deeper.I doubt to much rain would be a factor as long as they are not sitting under water. Here we have allot of rain in the summer and it only helps them grow faster.I would fertilize with a balanced fertilizer and I believe a 3:1:3 NPK ratio is best.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Davidl

[elHoagie]

I have actually had the spear pull out three times and it has re-shot out of the side of the old trunk, which was amazing once, let alone three times

I've had this happen with a couple palms (spear pulls multiple times, palm re-shoots out the side). In all cases the palm seems to grow in slow motion - just like yours. I think my most extreme example is a Dypsis mahajanga, which has had the spear pull 3 or 4 times but always comes back. I've had this palm for 5 or 6 years and it's the same size as when I bought it...

[Jim in Los Altos]

Matty's last point that it may just be a dud reminds me of a Brahea Armata I have that's over 20 years old and only 10 inches tall. Looks otherwise healthy but it's truly miniature. I tried for years to get it to grow and nothing worked so I just accept it for what it is. A cute little blue palmette.

[Kris]

Hai

Here are some visuals of C.Alba.And they are growing well in hot wet tropical south india.And their roots have virtually opened up the base of this plastic pot !

. . .

Love,

kris

[Lowey]

Kris, can we see how big the plants are please??

[Kris]

Dear Bruce

Here is the still of the whole palm(C.Alba)

And if you want to see more on the C.Alba & C.Hospita here are the links !

Palm Maintenance Work.Yr_2009 - C.Alba.

Palm Maintenance Work.Yr_2009 - C.Hospita.

Love,

kris

[Lowey]

Thanks Kris

[Moose]

I dont think they like a really high rainfall climate.I have grown these several times and the seedlings always die during our wet season.

I have to agree with this post. I think that your rain fall may be too much. They are endemic to Cuba, and Cuba is borderline tropical ( during our recent cold snap, Havana experienced temp in the 40's F! ). Its certainly not HARD CORE tropical like many other caribbean islands. I also hear that these palms come from areas on the island that experience seasons of drought.

That would be my guess. I doubt its the soil because here in Miami our soil is horrible, and they do very well. I am sure that there are some other South Florida guys who know far more than me who may chime in.

Manny

The Copernicia baileyana sits for a very long time developing its root system. It is a practice by many in South Florida to dig a very deep hole when planting this palm. Having to penetrate our rocky soil slows this palm down. After its deep roots get established and finding ground water, this palm starts to accelerate but never becomes fast. This Copernicia baileyana was acquired from Paul Craft in 1999 as a two leaf seedling in a 4" container for $8.00. I stepped it up into a three gallon container and it barely moved. The late Howard Waddell recommended I put it in the ground in 2000. I followed his suggestion, finding the three gallon container was full of roots but little leaf development occured. I dug about a 4 ft deep hole and made sure that it had very good drainage with my soil amendments. This palm is around 11 ft tall now.

[peachy]

Bruce I have a few copies here. Alba is a real rocket, as long as it gets sun, a bit of lime and is always wet. My baileyana is a lot slower but steady. I give it lime too but not as much water as the alba gets. It should go better now that you have limed it. Let us know how it goes.

Peachy

[Walter John]

Damn, I thought I was reading a fresh thread. So Lowey, if you are reading, how's the baileyana now ?

[DoomsDave]

Hmm.

Lowey, sounds like you might have a dud. That business with the spear pulling then popping out the side.

That happens, once in a while. I've had a number of plants of different species do that, and they usually end up croaking, while others of the same kind, sometimes feet away, grow well.

I'd get one or two more and see if you have better luck, for starters. I do know they thrive in Miami, which is seasonally dry. It sounds like your area is a lot wetter, but if you can get some plants for inexpensive prices, I'd try others.

[Lowey]

Damn, I thought I was reading a fresh thread. So Lowey, if you are reading, how's the baileyana now ?

Hi Wal, Dave, Peachy, the Baileyana is only slightly bigger, I have fertilized it regularly and it has not had any more spears pull but it is still only about 400 mm high, I will try to post a pic some time soon, slowest dam thing I have ever grown, but I just cant bring myself to dig it up

[Lowey]

I dont think they like a really high rainfall climate.I have grown these several times and the seedlings always die during our wet season.

I have to agree with this post. I think that your rain fall may be too much. They are endemic to Cuba, and Cuba is borderline tropical ( during our recent cold snap, Havana experienced temp in the 40's F! ). Its certainly not HARD CORE tropical like many other caribbean islands. I also hear that these palms come from areas on the island that experience seasons of drought.

That would be my guess. I doubt its the soil because here in Miami our soil is horrible, and they do very well. I am sure that there are some other South Florida guys who know far more than me who may chime in.

Manny

The Copernicia baileyana sits for a very long time developing its root system. It is a practice by many in South Florida to dig a very deep hole when planting this palm. Having to penetrate our rocky soil slows this palm down. After its deep roots get established and finding ground water, this palm starts to accelerate but never becomes fast. This Copernicia baileyana was acquired from Paul Craft in 1999 as a two leaf seedling in a 4" container for $8.00. I stepped it up into a three gallon container and it barely moved. The late Howard Waddell recommended I put it in the ground in 2000. I followed his suggestion, finding the three gallon container was full of roots but little leaf development occured. I dug about a 4 ft deep hole and made sure that it had very good drainage with my soil amendments. This palm is around 11 ft tall now.

Thanks Moose nice plant you have there

[Davidl]

I would start with a new C.baileyana because that is to slow for that palm. I don't have any problem with them here to my knowledge. I have sandy loam soil that they seem to love it. This palm could be a cross but it still nice.

[Takil-Explorer]

What I remember from those in habitat in Cuba was also that they grow at a sandyloam sort of soil. And at a flat terrain. Origenally it was a kind of open dryforest they where found. Now mostely cattle grazing there.

Well I went there a year ago. That was a great trip.

Alexander

[avanza]

Hai :)Here are some visuals of C.Alba.And they are growing well in hot wet tropical south india.And their roots have virtually opened up the base of this plastic pot ! IMG_4967.jpg . . . IMG_4968.jpgLove,kris

Kris :-D is that a spider?

[KennyRE317]

wow, that is slow

[sonoranfans]

Baileyana is a heavy feeder, like most copernicias. They they do like good drainage and plenty of water. And yes they do put roots down before picking up speed. I planted a small bailey type(hybrid?), obtained from Catherine@creekside two years ago, in sand with some clay with nearly half organic ammendment. I feed it with florikan palm special, humic acid, fish emulsion. two pics august 2011 and June 2013.

[avanza]

Thank you very much sonoranfans.

For the timeline update pics.

[sarasota alex]

Baileyana is a heavy feeder, like most copernicias. They they do like good drainage and plenty of water. And yes they do put roots down before picking up speed. I planted a small bailey type(hybrid?), obtained from Catherine@creekside two years ago, in sand with some clay with nearly half organic ammendment. I feed it with florikan palm special, humic acid, fish emulsion. two pics august 2011 and June 2013.

That's not bad at all for a newly planted Bailey!

[sarasota alex]

Hai :)Here are some visuals of C.Alba.And they are growing well in hot wet tropical south india.And their roots have virtually opened up the base of this plastic pot ! IMG_4967.jpg . . . IMG_4968.jpgLove,kris

Kris :-D is that a spider?

Siriwat, I know you are joking here, but crowns of young Copernicias are favorite places for spider nest building.

[sonoranfans]

Baileyana is a heavy feeder, like most copernicias. They they do like good drainage and plenty of water. And yes they do put roots down before picking up speed. I planted a small bailey type(hybrid?), obtained from Catherine@creekside two years ago, in sand with some clay with nearly half organic ammendment. I feed it with florikan palm special, humic acid, fish emulsion. two pics august 2011 and June 2013.

That's not bad at all for a newly planted Bailey!

Thanks alex,

It was a big hole that was intended for a much larger palm. I dug through the construction clay to sand 3' deep, the hole was also 3' wide. The palm was a 15 gallon where the root system was just about filled out in a 15 gallon, but the foliage was small, much smaller than the container itself. I planted it and took the pic about 5 months later, it was already pushing spears in pic #1. I love the way baileys have the colored petioles and black teeth. As I stated earlier it could be a hybrid, but it does show that bailey petiole color.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Matty's last point that it may just be a dud reminds me of a Brahea Armata I have that's over 20 years old and only 10 inches tall. Looks otherwise healthy but it's truly miniature. I tried for years to get it to grow and nothing worked so I just accept it for what it is. A cute little blue palmette.

And four years later Jim's brahea armata is still the same size. I saw it, he's got a real bonzai.

I usually dump palms like that, they're hosts to fungus or viruses that could infect other palms.