Name that Sable

[Don]

This is what we have!

[Zeeth]

Palmetto...

You ain't seen nothin' until you've seen this Sabal Causiarum in Ft. Myers!

The pics aren't mine, but I saw the palm in person, HUGE! I collected a bunch of seed, which now have little green sprouts. I will keep a couple and plant the rest in the nature trail in the neighborhood this spring.

[FRITO]

Those are my photos Zeeth. That indeed is a nice Causiarum. The garden there was created in the 1950's

Don, They look like Huge Palmettos, but could be hybrids. it looks like one of the ones has a flaired based to it, that may have some causiarum blood.

Luke

[Don]

Bummer I'll keep try'in.

[FRITO]

Don, it still may be something diffrent than a palmetto, get some seed and check the size.

Is that a washingtonia with the flaired based? hard to tell.

also if it has a 6ft circumfrence that is approx 22-23" trunk diameter. that put is a a very thick swap grown palmetto about big as the get. It possible it could be a S. mexicana. you said they truck them in 12 years ago, could they have come from south Texas?

also check out this old thread: some nice sabal pics Huge Sabal Thread

[Don]

Don, it still may be something diffrent than a palmetto, get some seed and check the size.

Is that a washingtonia with the flaired based? hard to tell.

also if it has a 6ft circumfrence that is approx 22-23" trunk diameter. that put is a a very thick swap grown palmetto about big as the get. It possible it could be a S. mexicana. you said they truck them in 12 years ago, could they have come from south Texas?

also check out this old thread: some nice sabal pics Huge Sabal Thread

Hey luke I was told they came from the Caymen Islands. was unable to get seeds friday so I'll try tommorrow.

Semper Fi

Don

[sarasota alex]

After looking at the Huge Sabal Thread (thanks for the link Luke), I downloaded and read through Scott Zona's Sabal Monograph. I found it to be very interesting, even though parts of it were way too scientific for me.

I couldn't find any references to native Sabals on Cayman Islands. Geographically however the mentioned islands are between Cuba and Jamaica and the only species shared between those two geographies is S. maritima. S. palmetto and S. yapa also grow on the South Shore of Cuba, and could potentially have reached the Caymans. S. yapa has a thinner trunk though. I believe that if from a cultivated source on Cayman Islands

[Don]

I must be getting old I thought for sure pole saw would reach but alas it does not. I believe a 40' ladder is in order but I seriously doubt the security guard will let me do that. Yes the flared trunk is a washie, the sables measured with a tape this time are 6' around at the base and 5'6" the rest of the way up. I'll try and get some better pics of the crown to see if that will help. These are truly impressive sables. Lots of babies scattered about, I'll measure some seeds tonight and post them.

Semper Fi

Don

[Zeeth]

Good luck, I still think it's just a robust palmetto, but that robustness could still be passed on to it's offspring.

The reason I say this is the trunk texture. I've seen in person most of the big sabal species, and they all had a smooth trunk. You can see from Frito's pics that the sabal has a very smooth trunk, well maritima, domingensis, causiarum and yapa all have a smooth trunk texture from the ones I have seen at botanical gardens. They feel more like the trunk of a royal palm that a palmetto in my opinion. In your pics, the palm has a rough trunk with splotchy color, which is like every palmetto I've ever seen. Still, the robustness of this palm may be passed on to the offspring, or it could be a hybrid that just has a rough trunk.

I would say if you want seeds from a robust sabal palm, you should get some seed from S. mautitiiformis (the fastest growing sabal species, very pretty trunk with super wide rings, it looks a lot like Mauritia flexuosa) and S. domingensis (super thick trunk, one of the faster sabals, a lot like causiarum but faster growing).

[Don]

Good luck, I still think it's just a robust palmetto, but that robustness could still be passed on to it's offspring.

The reason I say this is the trunk texture. I've seen in person most of the big sabal species, and they all had a smooth trunk. You can see from Frito's pics that the sabal has a very smooth trunk, well maritima, domingensis, causiarum and yapa all have a smooth trunk texture from the ones I have seen at botanical gardens. They feel more like the trunk of a royal palm that a palmetto in my opinion. In your pics, the palm has a rough trunk with splotchy color, which is like every palmetto I've ever seen. Still, the robustness of this palm may be passed on to the offspring, or it could be a hybrid that just has a rough trunk.

I would say if you want seeds from a robust sabal palm, you should get some seed from S. mautitiiformis (the fastest growing sabal species, very pretty trunk with super wide rings, it looks a lot like Mauritia flexuosa) and S. domingensis (super thick trunk, one of the faster sabals, a lot like causiarum but faster growing).

Well I've gatherd seeds and it seems to me that at the very least I have a hybrid, check this out.

[Don]

And yet more proof.

If you see a gap in the calipers its due to the fact that the seed would not stay in between so I measured then laid them down for effect.

Semper Fi

Don

[Don]

small seeds are typical sable palmettos the large are sable ?

[sarasota alex]

Some seeds could've been pollinated with pollen from nearby sabals, and some with pollen from the tree itself. That could explain the difference in size.

[Don]

Some seeds could've been pollinated with pollen from nearby sabals, and some with pollen from the tree itself. That could explain the difference in size.

Theres 5 of these sables all in the same spot and all with the much larger seeds than average.

The smaller seeds in the pictures were gathered from nearby typical sable palmettoes. Theres thousands of sable palmettoes around and all have the same size seeds. The 5 sables in question certainly have some differant genetics going on. Thanks for the help Don

[Don]

And yet more proof.

If you see a gap in the calipers its due to the fact that the seed would not stay in between so I measured then laid them down for effect.

Semper Fi

Don

The top 2 pics are sable palmetto and the bottom 2 pics are the sable in question which I picked up off the ground.

[Mark Heath]

Don,

Thanks for sharing your pics and the details of the seed size. If i were you, i would sowe and grow those suckers!

They look fantastic! A hybrid in my humble opinion!

[Don]

I'm all about it Mark,thanks for the reply and I hope your palms are recovering properly.

Semper Fi

Don

[Ken Johnson]

I do not think they are palmettos or hybrids. They are in Alabama? You think someone 60 years ago found hybrid seed for those suckers? I doubt it.

In Tampa there are many mauritima that got there, I assume, through the port when it was the next stop for boats from Havana- Key West. Early Spanish, American Indian and humans in general knew that palms equal food and shelter so some seeds were carried on early boats as many as 600 years ago. I would bet thats why Pseudophoenix was found in the Keys.

The mauritima I have seen do not have smooth trunks like causiarum. They look like huge palmetto to me. Your pics show large petioles too, much larger than any palmetto I have ever seen. Also larger than mexicana.

For sure they are interesting looking and if they are in Alabama they are way cool.

[FRITO]

Ken, I was thinking it over and S. maritima sounds good to me!

The Cayman islands are near Cuba and Jamaica, no reason they are not on the island also.

They say maritima looks just like a robust palmetto with a thick whitesh grey trunk. thicker and longer petioles. the seeds look larger as well.

Don, after looking at the pics again, these pics are not doing these palms justice... I can see now that these are not your run of the mil palmettos and are indeed ' somthing diffrent'

Edited February 25, 2010 by FRITO