Coconut palms in Southern St. Petersburg, FL

[kylecawazafla]

I wonder how this winter compares to the 1980s! Even some coconuts in extreme South Florida look very similar to these ones growing close to the southern edge of the St. Petersburg Peninsula, opposite Tampa. I think these will recover.

[bubba]

Kyle,These are pictures down here taken shortly after the cold. These have browned a bit but fortunately do not look like those:

And another:

I hope McCarthy Hall somehow made it through.

[kylecawazafla]

Kyle,These are pictures down here taken shortly after the cold. These have browned a bit but fortunately do not look like those:

And another:

I hope McCarthy Hall somehow made it through.

[kylecawazafla]

Hey Bubba! Those coconuts look very nice! I was down in South Miami over the weekend and many coconuts looked good like that, but every once in a while there would be one that was totally defoliated. One of the defoliated ones was definitively a Maypan variety, so perhaps Maypans are the least hardy ones grown in South Florida. The giant Roystonea oleracea at Fairchild is also completely defoliated. I am posting more pictures now though.

[kylecawazafla]

I forgot to mention that McCarty Hall MIGHT come back, but most of the things were defoliated. You know things aren't too promising when a Sabal uresana got hit badly from the cold! However, the Allogoptera, Lytocaryum, Syagrus, Sabals, Livistonas, Washingtonias, and Arenga engleri and micrantha are fine, the Caryota, Dypsis lutescens, Decaryi, and Ravenea, and Chamaedorea look like they will recover, and the rest I am just waiting for. Palm trees are tough!!

Alright, here are some photos. The first one are Avicennia germinans growing by Keaton Beach, FL.

Here is a Ficus elastics growing by the coconuts in the first post.

Archontophoenix alexandrae x cunninghaminana hybrid! These are a very creative looking progyny... Kind of like their own palm. No damage in St. Pete!

A coconut palm in Northern St. Pete. Maybe this is a tall variety?

[kylecawazafla]

Bactris gasipaes growing in the wind!

I wish the Arenga pinnata in Gainesville looked this nice! 26.7 F may prove to be lethal for this palm. If you look closely, there is extensive damage to this palm, although it's hard to tell.

Corypha utan

These palm trees may be responsible for the extinction of many palm trees in the near future! African oil palm badly burnt!

[kylecawazafla]

A hardy Areca?! Yes, Areca triandra in St. Pete

This one was labeled Aiphanes aculeata, but I think it's an A. minima... with minimal cold tolerance.

I think this is a dead Hydriastele microspadix

[kylecawazafla]

These Dypsis lutescens looked good compared to some in East Tampa Bay!

This palm has very little cold temperature personality, same people admire him/her for it: Beccariophoenix alfredii

This Ceiba pentandra only has brown leaves!!

[kylecawazafla]

The Hyophorbe langenicaulis's bottles do not store freeze protection! Now they look gilded.

Here is a Coccoloba uvifera forest! These are interesting plants. They displayed cold damage even in way south florida! The ones here seemed to just drop all of their leaves, leaving a cool lilly pad effect on the ground beneath them!

Last but not least; possibly the world's least cold hardy palm: Manicaria saccifera. This is the largest one I have seen in cultivation growing underneath a screen in Fairchild Tropical Gardens. The Lodoicea maldivica next to it had zero cold damage, but this palm defoliated. The center leaf was green though, so I hope it makes a full recovery soon. They are truly beautiful palms!

[Jeff in St Pete]

Thanks for the photos Kyle. I recognize a lot of those palms from Kopsick Palm Arboretum. I expected some damage there, but I was very surprised to see a brown palm at Fairchild. Do you have any photos of the R. oleracea? Do you think it will recover?

[kylecawazafla]

Unfortunately I was at Fairchild later on in the day with limited time, so I did not snap a R. oleracea photo, but I may go back there at the end of next month. I think the R. oleracea will come back. There were many damaged palms there, however. Some that had extensive damage are Areca vestiaria, Roystonea oleracea, Manicaria saccifera, Arenga undulatifolia, Aiphanes minima, Licuala grandis, Cocos nucifera, and a few more. Surprisingly, their outdoor Pelagodoxa henryana appeared unscathed!

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

Nice post freeze photo report, Kyle. Is this as bad or worse than the 80's freeze in Fla? It is worse in that there is prolonged weakening of all palms and tropical ornamentals in this '09-'10 "event." Back in the early 80's freeze, there were colder nights (certainly here in SW Brwd. Co.) but not nearly as many prolonged nights of chill. By now, (back in the '80s freeze), "Spring was in evidence" already; this year it's still amazingly cold, and will be colder again next weekend as forecast by Penn State & FSU.

Things are still browning 'round here more day by day. It seems that I lose another terminal spear on still another of my 12 Verschafeltia spendidas every day.

Pity, eh?

Paul

[kylecawazafla]

Aww I am sorry to hear that! I have a Verschaffeltia splendida indoors in Gainesville that is actually doing pretty well! I can't wait to put it outside, but it's been way too cold here without any respite. If our 10 day forecast is correct, we have only had 3 days at or above average for the month of February! The rest have been 5 - 10 degrees below average

[bubba]

Kyle,These are street pictures of Mayan Coconuts here two weeks after the Jan.2-11 cold:

Another:

My Areca vestiara purchased from Sir Pious, small though it may be but no damage:

My Licuala grandis post cold:

[bubba]

This is my Spindle, that I have found to be very similar to a Bottle:

I am sad to hear about the damage at Fairchild. Even my Stilt, while existing leaves turned bronze, a major green shoot is emanating from Pious's little beauty.

[kylecawazafla]

Wow that is incredible! Perhaps because you are closer to the coast the palms sustained less damage? I did notice that palms of the same species displayed great variations in cold tolerance, although I am not keeping microclimates in mind. I once drove from South Beach to Coral Gables and the Temperature at South Beach was about 70 F, and the temperature in Coral Gables was 58 F! It's funny you showed a picture of a spindle! There was a group of Bottle Palms in their neighbors yard with a palm that appeared to be a Bottle x Spindle at the end. The Bottle palms and Spindles palms in the neighborhood were all fine, but the Bottle x Spindle seemed to have some cold damage! The Areca vestiaria with cold damage at Fairchild was a maroon form. Maybe those are less cold tolerant?

[Zeeth]

I went to Kopsick about a week ago, and the Jamaican talls sustained the least amount of damage of the coconuts, but they still were really ratty looking. I suspect it was from the duration though, and not the cold. Some Coconuts around here weren't fazed by the first night below freezing, and some even the second, but by the 5th, they all looked terrible. Then the cool temps started affecting the coastal areas where they didn't get freezes, so places really close to the coast got damage too. There were some undamaged palms practically out on the water I saw after the 1st cold blast was over with, but I think the cool may have started to damage them too. Truly a terrible winter...

[kylecawazafla]

This is really a bad winter! It is hard to distinguish Seattle from Gainesville when you see the weather statistics since January. Most of the Philodendron selloums here are defoliated, and the lawns are all a DEEP brown/gold color without any green. I have never seen it like this before, but hopefully things will look fairly normal by the end of summer.

[Zeeth]

I would be interested in getting seed from that northern st. pete coconut. It doesn't look very badly hurt so could be a good variety to try in cold areas. What's the location it was spotted?

[DoomsDave]

OUCH!

January 2007, all over again . . . .

[Zeeth]

OUCH!

January 2007, all over again . . . .

Incidentally, a good winter for us in Fl... The lowest it was in Parrish, Fl (inland Manatee county) was 33F with no frost, and it got down to 27F this year with 5 or 6 nights at or below freezing...

[epicure3]

OUCH!

January 2007, all over again . . . .

Incidentally, a good winter for us in Fl... The lowest it was in Parrish, Fl (inland Manatee county) was 33F with no frost, and it got down to 27F this year with 5 or 6 nights at or below freezing...

Well, that's the way it goes. Warm West, cold East. Though, I am not sure that this winter here in San Diego is that warm. I have noticed more nights above 50F, however.

[SunnyFl]

Nice post freeze photo report, Kyle. Is this as bad or worse than the 80's freeze in Fla? It is worse in that there is prolonged weakening of all palms and tropical ornamentals in this '09-'10 "event." Back in the early 80's freeze, there were colder nights (certainly here in SW Brwd. Co.) but not nearly as many prolonged nights of chill. By now, (back in the '80s freeze), "Spring was in evidence" already; this year it's still amazingly cold, and will be colder again next weekend as forecast by Penn State & FSU.

Paul

Right - comparing this year - at least in St. Pete - to the 80's is kind of like comparing apples to oranges. In the 80's, the temps got MUCH colder. 12/24/89 - some areas saw 19F. Other areas, like our former home, saw temps around 21. Power co. ran out of electricity (yes, really). Plants died of outright cold, not frost - people were even losing citrus. 1983 & 85 were bad as well. But it would warm up.

This winter, the problem wasn't the low temps, at least where I am. It didn't get that cold - only had one night at 30, which wasn't the problem. The problem came the subsequent night when we had bad frost. A bowl of water left on the ground had no ice - yet frost covered everything, and damage was immediately apparent. We'd never before - in 20 years - had frost on the plants at my current house.

This occurred in the longest stretch of cool weather many of us have never experienced here - I would say St. Pete is doing a great imitation of a Cali climate!

I think it was David Witt who observed that a (Jamaica?) Tall coconut growing out on Clearwater Beach survived a low of 19F in the Christmas Eve freeze of '89.

[SunnyFl]

I wonder how this winter compares to the 1980s! Even some coconuts in extreme South Florida look very similar to these ones growing close to the southern edge of the St. Petersburg Peninsula, opposite Tampa. I think these will recover.

Yikes!!! There are coconuts in Lealman that don't look that bad. Some of the royals around here - like the ones by 49th St. & 70th Ave. - came through it quite well.

But up the street, one guy lost two juvie coconuts and another lost a few adonidias and a bottle. His foxies may recover - or might not. Can't believe with his beautiful palms he didn't do any protection at all, but no one around here ever does.

[Zeeth]

Nice post freeze photo report, Kyle. Is this as bad or worse than the 80's freeze in Fla? It is worse in that there is prolonged weakening of all palms and tropical ornamentals in this '09-'10 "event." Back in the early 80's freeze, there were colder nights (certainly here in SW Brwd. Co.) but not nearly as many prolonged nights of chill. By now, (back in the '80s freeze), "Spring was in evidence" already; this year it's still amazingly cold, and will be colder again next weekend as forecast by Penn State & FSU.

Paul

Right - comparing this year - at least in St. Pete - to the 80's is kind of like comparing apples to oranges. In the 80's, the temps got MUCH colder. 12/24/89 - some areas saw 19F. Other areas, like our former home, saw temps around 21. Power co. ran out of electricity (yes, really). Plants died of outright cold, not frost - people were even losing citrus. 1983 & 85 were bad as well. But it would warm up.

This winter, the problem wasn't the low temps, at least where I am. It didn't get that cold - only had one night at 30, which wasn't the problem. The problem came the subsequent night when we had bad frost. A bowl of water left on the ground had no ice - yet frost covered everything, and damage was immediately apparent. We'd never before - in 20 years - had frost on the plants at my current house.

This occurred in the longest stretch of cool weather many of us have never experienced here - I would say St. Pete is doing a great imitation of a Cali climate!

I think it was David Witt who observed that a (Jamaica?) Tall coconut growing out on Clearwater Beach survived a low of 19F in the Christmas Eve freeze of '89.

Where on clearwater beach? I have heard so much about this particular palm (19f?!?), and I want seed from it!

[kylecawazafla]

Hey Zeeth! The coconut that didn't get too much damage is on highway 19 and 50th Ave N. Also, plants weren't the only things that suffered during this cold! The fish in Tampa Bay did too. The beach at Vinnoy Park wasn't a very pleasant place in St. Pete

And a dead Iguana

[Zeeth]

Thanks for the tip, I'll have to collect seed from it sometime...

I saw the dead fish too, all along the manatee river. I saw lots of puffer fish, and I didn't even know we had those!

[palmcurry]

Isn't there a red tide problem in that area?

[happ]

Another tragic consequence of the freeze is the destruction of coral in south Florida

[sarasota alex]

Isn't there a red tide problem in that area?

Yes. But I don't remember us having an outbreak recently

[bubba]

Happ, Loss of coral? Can you tell me about this and where?

[Zeeth]

I just drove around the neighborhood where my parents are buying a house. All pygmy dates are fried, all foxtails are dead, all royals are bladly fried, bottle palms and spindle palms are dead, king palms and christmas palms are dead, about 50% of the queens had browning, some were defoliated, and about 25% of washingtonia robustas showed browning... And this is where I will have to grow palms for the next few years! I was thinking I could get some Jamaican tall coconuts to grow out there if I protected them until they had about 10 ft of trunk, but seeing all the damage really dismayed me... I can't wait to buy my own house out on the water in one of the areas where coconuts had no damage.

Going inland really makes a difference... On the water, Malayan coconuts showed about 10% damage (talls and some maypans had no damage), but 11 miles inland and washingtonia robusta had the same amount of damage as the malayan coconuts on the water. Wow...

[SunnyFl]

I just drove around the neighborhood where my parents are buying a house. All pygmy dates are fried, all foxtails are dead, all royals are bladly fried, bottle palms and spindle palms are dead, king palms and christmas palms are dead, about 50% of the queens had browning, some were defoliated, and about 25% of washingtonia robustas showed browning...

Zeeth, where is this neighborhood - is it in Bradenton? If roebs are fried, that's a real bad sign - roebs are one of the few that escaped with only survivable damage in our neighborhood (interestingly, the rupicola pair fared somewhat better).

And this is where I will have to grow palms for the next few years! I was thinking I could get some Jamaican tall coconuts to grow out there if I protected them until they had about 10 ft of trunk, but seeing all the damage really dismayed me... I can't wait to buy my own house out on the water in one of the areas where coconuts had no damage.

Going inland really makes a difference... On the water, Malayan coconuts showed about 10% damage (talls and some maypans had no damage), but 11 miles inland and washingtonia robusta had the same amount of damage as the malayan coconuts on the water. Wow...

Amazing! It must have really been cold to damage a washie! The more I hear, the gladder I am I live where I do. We got nailed, but OTOH, there are plenty of lutescens that survived - not all of them well - but they did survive.

Being closer to the water definitely has its benefits - although this cold event was so drastic that even native fish were killed in great numbers. Sad note to this: the Seabird Sanctuary - which is having severe financial stress as it is - reports much greater numbers of seabirds ill and dying from starvation and from trying to eat the dead fish. The economic and environmental repercussions of this winter just go on and on.

[sarasota alex]

I was told that parts of Lakewood Ranch hit as low as 25 on one of those nights in January. Does anyone know if it's true?

[Zeeth]

I just drove around the neighborhood where my parents are buying a house. All pygmy dates are fried, all foxtails are dead, all royals are bladly fried, bottle palms and spindle palms are dead, king palms and christmas palms are dead, about 50% of the queens had browning, some were defoliated, and about 25% of washingtonia robustas showed browning...

Zeeth, where is this neighborhood - is it in Bradenton? If roebs are fried, that's a real bad sign - roebs are one of the few that escaped with only survivable damage in our neighborhood (interestingly, the rupicola pair fared somewhat better).

And this is where I will have to grow palms for the next few years! I was thinking I could get some Jamaican tall coconuts to grow out there if I protected them until they had about 10 ft of trunk, but seeing all the damage really dismayed me... I can't wait to buy my own house out on the water in one of the areas where coconuts had no damage.

Going inland really makes a difference... On the water, Malayan coconuts showed about 10% damage (talls and some maypans had no damage), but 11 miles inland and washingtonia robusta had the same amount of damage as the malayan coconuts on the water. Wow...

Amazing! It must have really been cold to damage a washie! The more I hear, the gladder I am I live where I do. We got nailed, but OTOH, there are plenty of lutescens that survived - not all of them well - but they did survive.

Being closer to the water definitely has its benefits - although this cold event was so drastic that even native fish were killed in great numbers. Sad note to this: the Seabird Sanctuary - which is having severe financial stress as it is - reports much greater numbers of seabirds ill and dying from starvation and from trying to eat the dead fish. The economic and environmental repercussions of this winter just go on and on.

It's called "twin rivers" here's a location pic

It takes up that whole area inside the fork in the river (hence the name). It's a nice place, but I guess it's in a cold spot. The Foxbrook station for weather underground is close to it, and it recorded 27F ad the lowest low, but I think it was much colder, as the damage I saw said it was a lot colder than 27, I'm thinking it may have even approached the teens. In downtown Bradenton, lutescens (and royals and coconuts in certain spots) looked unharmed. The Manatee river creates a really odd phenomenon. Below the river, temps are increased quite a bit, but above the river, you don't see this as much. It must be kind of like how the St. Pete side of the Tampa bay is warm enough for coconuts (kopsick), but the Tampa side is much colder.

[Zeeth]

I was told that parts of Lakewood Ranch hit as low as 25 on one of those nights in January. Does anyone know if it's true?

I believe it is most certainly true. This winter was COLD . I heard last winter was bad, but I saw coconuts last spring in someone's yard about a mile from twin rivers, and they had no damage, and this winter I saw burned washingtonias. Bad bad bad... I have to check out those coconuts sometime during summer, if they survived, I may have hope

[happ]

Happ, Loss of coral? Can you tell me about this and where?

Science journals have been documenting this tragedy. It is hard to believe that parts of the Keys recorded ocean temps in the upper 40's low 50's

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/climate-change/stories/thermal-wimps-florida-cold-snap-freezes-corals-to-death

[bubba]

Happ, This must pertain to shallow areas on the Gulf side of the Keys. As was reported in Ocean Temperatures,during the cold, areas around Tampa hit low 50's.It is certainly concievable that shallow water in far West areas of the Keys could mirror air temperatures, which were in the 50's and 40's.This would be in fringe areas in which Coral exists because of the normal rarity of cold. The article seems purposily vague in it's lack of defining "where" this event is specifically located.

I am certain that this event does not include Ocean-side areas of the Keys, which are heavily effected by the warmth of the Gulf Stream.For example, if the Coral Reefs at John Pennekamp Park in Key Largo were devastated,it would be headline material throughout the State.

In Palm Beach County, I can report that water temperatures dropped briefly to the upper 60's for a very short period.I know of no damage to our Coral Reefs,other than a barge line that hit the Breakers Reef. Scuba Diving is big buisness here and I certainly hope that tourists do not change destinations because of misleading articles.

[happ]

Glad to hear that damage to coral wasn't too extensive. Here's the article in the Miami Herald that the Los Angles Times ran late last month:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/01/27/1447907/coral-in-keys-suffers-lethal-hit.html

[bubba]

The Miami Herald article clarifies that these areas of extreme cold were definitely shallow Gulf area portions of the Keys. Obviously, this is highly unfortunate but would be more than misleading to characterize the event as "the End" of Coral Reefs in the Keys.